A discussion with TechRocks on another thread has prompted me to ask the question to those interested in participating.

What does it mean to be a conservative? Is it a set of principles that serve as the foundation of your political understanding? Is it adherence to certain political positions? Does religion or belief in God have a role? If you are a conservative, how did you come to embrace that political philosophy?

If the discussion proves interesting, I might start one for liberals/progressives/socialists as well.

It doesn't mean putting words in one's mouth. That's neither conservative or liberal, just chickenshyte.

(05-26-2018 11:26 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  It doesn't mean putting words in one's mouth. That's neither conservative or liberal, just chickenshyte.

Guess you missed my apology in the other thread.

(05-26-2018 11:07 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  A discussion with TechRocks on another thread has prompted me to ask the question to those interested in participating.

What does it mean to be a conservative? Is it a set of principles that serve as the foundation of your political understanding? Is it adherence to certain political positions? Does religion or belief in God have a role? If you are a conservative, how did you come to embrace that political philosophy?

If the discussion proves interesting, I might start one for liberals/progressives/socialists as well.

I'll play in earnest Zombie.....

for me, it only means keeping it simple on the social side and not rocking the boat....kick the msm in the nuts as req'd that doesn't establish knee-jerk policy based on some internutz dipshite....in other words, let the idiots duke out the shite that really doesn't mean a g'dammed thingy on their social media pigpen.....

on the fiscal side, protect the USD at all 'cost'......it means doing everything plausible to begin eliminating waste via consolidation, refine/maintain the services that provide for those that legitimately cannot, completely revamp/develop a tiered education system that provides best method for the majority of youth moving forward, invest in border protection and HEAVILY INVEST in developing/repairing infrastructure, and maintain our tech/military as req'd,

on the judicial front, appoint JUDGES that aren't libtard ****-for-brain pacifist arseholes that rule on current law v. attempting to legislate from the bench...

disclaimer: legalize mary jane and hemp across the board....crazy, eh???

I'm a centrist.....hell, even my catholic biased family gets it at this point......they used to think I was a lunatic at one time too....

that's my version of best method that should be exhibited from today's con......you will win all day long as the clock tick-tocks moving forward with that ideology....

it's all about creating/growing/maintaining value relative to commerce and that roof over your head

at the end of the equation, it's always going to end in $$$

you asked.....

I would define conservatism using words from Barry Goldwater's 1964 speech accepting the republican nomination for president, "Proven ways, not because they are old, but because they are true."

To me a conservative favors things that have been tried and found to work, whereas a liberal is much more inclined to try something different and more theoretical, even if it has never worked before, just so we can say we are doing something. In theory, theory works well in practice; in practice, it doesn't.

In modern republican practice, it seems to me that the idea of using tried and tested solutions to problems has taken a back seat to the idea of denying that the problems exist in the first place. So, common sense conservatism has been overtaken by my way or the highway conservatism. I think this is particularly true of religious conservatives and neocons.

Historically, I think of conservatism as characterized by limited government, low taxes, a balanced budget, maximum individual liberty, and a strong military coupled with a non-interventionist foreign policy. Modern republicans have abandoned virtually every one of those principles.

(05-26-2018 11:32 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 11:26 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  It doesn't mean putting words in one's mouth. That's neither conservative or liberal, just chickenshyte.

Guess you missed my apology in the other thread.

Apology accepted.

(05-26-2018 11:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I would define conservatism using words from Barry Goldwater's 1964 speech accepting the republican nomination for president, "Proven ways, not because they are old, but because they are true."

To me a conservative favors things that have been tried and found to work, whereas a liberal is much more inclined to try something different and more theoretical, even if it has never worked before, just so we can say we are doing something. In theory, theory works well in practice; in practice, it doesn't.

In modern republican practice, it seems to me that the idea of using tried and tested solutions to problems has taken a back seat to the idea of denying that the problems exist in the first place. So, common sense conservatism has been overtaken by my way or the highway conservatism. I think this is particularly true of religious conservatives and neocons.

Historically, I think of conservatism as characterized by small government, low taxes, a balanced budget, maximum individual liberty, and a strong military coupled with a non-interventionist foreign policy. Modern republicans have abandoned virtually every one of those principles.

with that simple phrase, you are correct sir!!!

it took decades to create that monster.....there's no easy fix.....

#henceDJTexperiment

To me being a conservative has come to mean conserving the core principle on which the US was founded.

I tend to think of conservatism in the same way I think of the American spirit. A dogged society built on self reliance, freedom of choice, underpinned by a common acceptance of Judeo Christian ethics and a somewhat silly sense of idealism centered on the idea of American exceptionalism. It celebrates the individual and freedom of choice. Conservatism is based very much on simple common sense. It is realistic--yet optimistic--all at the same time. You see it best in the Horatio Alger type stories that preach "you can be anything you want to be if you work hard enough".

Liberalism is more based on collectivism and the idea that we can all work together for the common good. Its is essentially defined by Carl Marx's phrase "to each according to his need and from each according to his ability". It sounds good---is idealistic---but lacks the common sense and moral underpinnings that act as the glue to bind the conservative society together. Liberalism's biggest failing is it fails to account for the basic motivations of man. Theoretically, it could work---but fails to work in actual practice because there is little motivation to strive for excellence (or even mediocrity for that matter).

(05-27-2018 01:33 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I tend to think of conservatism in the same way I think of the American spirit. A dogged society built on self reliance, freedom of choice, underpinned by a common acceptance of Judeo Christian ethics and a somewhat silly sense of idealism centered on the idea of American exceptionalism. It celebrates the individual and freedom of choice. Conservatism is based very much on simple common sense. It is realistic--yet optimistic--all at the same time. You see it best in the Horatio Alger type stories that preach "you can be anything you want to be if you work hard enough".

Liberalism is more based on collectivism and the idea that we can all work together for the common good. Its is essentially defined by Carl Marx's phrase "to each according to his need and from each according to his ability". It sounds good---is idealistic---but lacks the common sense and moral underpinnings that act as the glue to bind the conservative society together. Liberalism's biggest failing is it fails to account for the basic motivations of man. Theoretically, it could work---but fails to work in actual practice because there is little motivation to strive for excellence (or even mediocrity for that matter).

my fave line item....

to this post...very well thought out and succinct.....

(05-26-2018 11:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I would define conservatism using words from Barry Goldwater's 1964 speech accepting the republican nomination for president, "Proven ways, not because they are old, but because they are true."

To me a conservative favors things that have been tried and found to work, whereas a liberal is much more inclined to try something different and more theoretical, even if it has never worked before, just so we can say we are doing something. In theory, theory works well in practice; in practice, it doesn't.

In modern republican practice, it seems to me that the idea of using tried and tested solutions to problems has taken a back seat to the idea of denying that the problems exist in the first place. So, common sense conservatism has been overtaken by my way or the highway conservatism. I think this is particularly true of religious conservatives and neocons.

Historically, I think of conservatism as characterized by small government, low taxes, a balanced budget, maximum individual liberty, and a strong military coupled with a non-interventionist foreign policy. Modern republicans have abandoned virtually every one of those principles.

This.

(05-27-2018 01:33 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I tend to think of conservatism in the same way I think of the American spirit. A dogged society built on self reliance, freedom of choice, underpinned by a common acceptance of Judeo Christian ethics and a somewhat silly sense of idealism centered on the idea of American exceptionalism. It celebrates the individual and freedom of choice. Conservatism is based very much on simple common sense. It is realistic--yet optimistic--all at the same time. You see it best in the Horatio Alger type stories that preach "you can be anything you want to be if you work hard enough".

Liberalism is more based on collectivism and the idea that we can all work together for the common good. Its is essentially defined by Carl Marx's phrase "to each according to his need and from each according to his ability". It sounds good---is idealistic---but lacks the common sense and moral underpinnings that act as the glue to bind the conservative society together. Liberalism's biggest failing is it fails to account for the basic motivations of man. Theoretically, it could work---but fails to work in actual practice because there is little motivation to strive for excellence (or even mediocrity for that matter).

I think this does a good job of defining it. I would expand in that conservatism's belief in individualism means smaller, less intrusive government and a firm belief in the separation of powers defined in the constitution, meaning opposition to activist judges and presidents who skirt Congress in doing things and Congresses who try to micromanage the executive branch.

No time to deal with this in detail right now, but would love to jump in tomorrow or Monday.

One of the very best introductions is still “The Conscience of a Conservative”, written in 1959 by a young (~34) man named L. Brent Bozell. He was asked to draft a manuscript which could then be reviewed by US Senator Barry Goldwater of Arizona. He did so and the book was published under Goldwater’s name in early 1960. In political circles the book created an immediate sensation and has been reprinted many, many times since then.

(05-26-2018 11:07 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  A discussion with TechRocks on another thread has prompted me to ask the question to those interested in participating.

What does it mean to be a conservative? Is it a set of principles that serve as the foundation of your political understanding? Is it adherence to certain political positions? Does religion or belief in God have a role? If you are a conservative, how did you come to embrace that political philosophy?

If the discussion proves interesting, I might start one for liberals/progressives/socialists as well.

Generally speaking.....

Belief in personal responsibility and accountability.
Belief in limited government, ie: only those powers granted by the constitution.
Belief in personal freedoms and the freedom to live as one sees fit.
Following and adhering to the constitution when creating new laws and judging current ones.
Protecting the country and it's citizens.
Enacting and following a sound fiscal policy, ie: don't spend more than you take in (balance the budget).

I am of the belief that unlike some, religion doesn't enter into the equation. I'm NOT a religious person, more agnostic in fact, but that doesn't mean that "non-believers" are lawless anarchists. People can live good, decent lives without having to be religious.

That's where I think many conservatives go astray, they try so desperately to shove everyone into what THEY believe is moral, just, and decent, that they can't imagine that people might disagree on what makes something moral and just. Force feeding never works.

(05-29-2018 08:28 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 11:07 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  A discussion with TechRocks on another thread has prompted me to ask the question to those interested in participating.

What does it mean to be a conservative? Is it a set of principles that serve as the foundation of your political understanding? Is it adherence to certain political positions? Does religion or belief in God have a role? If you are a conservative, how did you come to embrace that political philosophy?

If the discussion proves interesting, I might start one for liberals/progressives/socialists as well.

Generally speaking.....

Belief in personal responsibility and accountability.
Belief in limited government, ie: only those powers granted by the constitution.
Belief in personal freedoms and the freedom to live as one sees fit.
Following and adhering to the constitution when creating new laws and judging current ones.
Protecting the country and it's citizens.
Enacting and following a sound fiscal policy, ie: don't spend more than you take in (balance the budget).

I am of the belief that unlike some, religion doesn't enter into the equation. I'm NOT a religious person, more agnostic in fact, but that doesn't mean that "non-believers" are lawless anarchists. People can live good, decent lives without having to be religious.

That's where I think many conservatives go astray, they try so desperately to shove everyone into what THEY believe is moral, just, and decent, that they can't imagine that people might disagree on what makes something moral and just. Force feeding never works.

legislating morality only creates more strife amongst the masses.....

best method preserving commerce should only be at the top of the food chain to preserve the resolve of the whole....forgettting 'this' is where the brits went askew

Sound understanding of Federalism
Limited Government
Personal Responsibility
The Individual is the basis of Society, not the reverse.

(05-27-2018 12:00 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 11:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I would define conservatism using words from Barry Goldwater's 1964 speech accepting the republican nomination for president, "Proven ways, not because they are old, but because they are true."

To me a conservative favors things that have been tried and found to work, whereas a liberal is much more inclined to try something different and more theoretical, even if it has never worked before, just so we can say we are doing something. In theory, theory works well in practice; in practice, it doesn't.

In modern republican practice, it seems to me that the idea of using tried and tested solutions to problems has taken a back seat to the idea of denying that the problems exist in the first place. So, common sense conservatism has been overtaken by my way or the highway conservatism. I think this is particularly true of religious conservatives and neocons.

Historically, I think of conservatism as characterized by small government, low taxes, a balanced budget, maximum individual liberty, and a strong military coupled with a non-interventionist foreign policy. Modern republicans have abandoned virtually every one of those principles.

with that simple phrase, you are correct sir!!!

it took decades to create that monster.....there's no easy fix.....

#henceDJTexperiment

If we use Owl's description, the Trump experiment is based in liberal logic.

(05-29-2018 10:43 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-27-2018 12:00 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 11:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I would define conservatism using words from Barry Goldwater's 1964 speech accepting the republican nomination for president, "Proven ways, not because they are old, but because they are true."

To me a conservative favors things that have been tried and found to work, whereas a liberal is much more inclined to try something different and more theoretical, even if it has never worked before, just so we can say we are doing something. In theory, theory works well in practice; in practice, it doesn't.

In modern republican practice, it seems to me that the idea of using tried and tested solutions to problems has taken a back seat to the idea of denying that the problems exist in the first place. So, common sense conservatism has been overtaken by my way or the highway conservatism. I think this is particularly true of religious conservatives and neocons.

Historically, I think of conservatism as characterized by small government, low taxes, a balanced budget, maximum individual liberty, and a strong military coupled with a non-interventionist foreign policy. Modern republicans have abandoned virtually every one of those principles.

with that simple phrase, you are correct sir!!!

it took decades to create that monster.....there's no easy fix.....

#henceDJTexperiment

If we use Owl's description, the Trump experiment is based in liberal logic.

IMO, the centrist version would be more applicable....

(05-26-2018 11:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I would define conservatism using words from Barry Goldwater's 1964 speech accepting the republican nomination for president, "Proven ways, not because they are old, but because they are true."

To me a conservative favors things that have been tried and found to work, whereas a liberal is much more inclined to try something different and more theoretical, even if it has never worked before, just so we can say we are doing something. In theory, theory works well in practice; in practice, it doesn't.

In modern republican practice, it seems to me that the idea of using tried and tested solutions to problems has taken a back seat to the idea of denying that the problems exist in the first place. So, common sense conservatism has been overtaken by my way or the highway conservatism. I think this is particularly true of religious conservatives and neocons.

Historically, I think of conservatism as characterized by limited government, low taxes, a balanced budget, maximum individual liberty, and a strong military coupled with a non-interventionist foreign policy. Modern republicans have abandoned virtually every one of those principles.

This!!!

And we can't ignore human motivations. You know - that basic thing that the socialists ignore and why socialism always fails.

I am a registered republican but there are some basic democratic beliefs that I can get on board with; however, in general terms:

I believe that conservative culture tends to be "selfish" in that they do not believe in helping their fellow man; while the Liberal culture tends to be more "giving" in helping those in need.


The problem I have with helping those in need is that [too] many of "those" are freeloaders riding off the system and taking advantage of the good will of others. Perfectly healthy and able bodied people who don't earn their living is maddening to me and something that is not only tolerated by the liberal culture, it is embraced and supported. In the eyes of the liberal, that makes me "selfish" and greedy.


Conservatives believe in you earning it; while Liberals believe you are entitled to it whether you earn or not. I believe in you earning it!!!!!!!!!!!!