(05-26-2018 08:48 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 08:37 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 08:30 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 07:46 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Clapper is a POS with no credibility..... and has no evidence of anything. At some point we are going to have to stop listening to him and his ilk.

Sounds like you’re describing Donald Trump. He has no evidence of FBI spys planted in his campaign... he has zero credibility... and at some point, we are going to have to stop listening to him.

TDS is a debilitating condition. But it sure is fun to watch.

Better than having the Clap...

Yes it is better than having to rest your case on 'the Clapper'. Sadly, you seem to be all in on that though.

(05-26-2018 08:30 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 07:46 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Clapper is a POS with no credibility..... and has no evidence of anything. At some point we are going to have to stop listening to him and his ilk.

Sounds like you’re describing Donald Trump. He has no evidence of FBI spys planted in his campaign... he has zero credibility... and at some point, we are going to have to stop listening to him.

I really gotta hand it to ya for being the good foot soldier and continuing to toss your body on the shyte grenades coming out of the congressional investigations of the FBI's conduct. Most of your buddies have given up, or perhaps they're actually embarrassed by the news stories and actually feel some shame. Dunno.

A question though. Based on your posts denying the overwhelming evidence against the FBI, do you really think this thing is going against Trump?

Inquiring minds want to know how an otherwise intelligent sounding human being can reach such conclusions.

CONTRADICTORY WITNESS TESTIMONY

(05-25-2018 08:00 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(05-25-2018 07:54 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(05-25-2018 07:38 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  He is 100% correct

No he's not!!

See how easy that is..............................

80k votes is the difference of Hillary and DJT... the Russian partnership with the Trump campaign was certainly worth that total.

Clapper knows it, but no one until now wanted to admit it.

Not one 1 single vote was obtained by the Russians. This is the dumbest thing the Dems have come up with yet. They are going to get their asses handed to them in mid terms if they cannot come up with a decent policy plan.

And you Marc, are not displaying a Mensa outlook by listening to this nonsense.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I find the whole thing amusing, in a this-stuff-is-so-bizarre-it's-laughable kind of way. Those who would love to see Trump go down in flames latch onto any possibility of impropriety in the hopes that it will cause the removal of our national embarrassment. The die-hard Trump supporters are so invested in their hero worship of him that it has become cult-like. No possibility exists for them that his statements, actions or policies aren't 100% in the best interests of the country.

As it relates to Russian influence on the presidential election, people often mistakenly equate the proven fact that entities within Russia attempted to influence the election with the unproven assertion that members of Trump's campaign colluded with foreign entities for the purpose of impacting the election. Those are two distinct things. We know that Russians at the very least sought to sow discord among Americans (from the old communist playbook 1950s-70s) and may have thought they could influence American voters away from Hillary, who they hated. They didn't realize most of us already hated her and didn't need their assistance in reaching that conclusion.

Separate from the Russian attempts at election influence charges, which are certainly true, is the Trump campaign collusion claim and the investigation into those claims by Mueller. These claims have not yet been proven. But I continue to be amused that the dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporter dismisses out of hand that there is any credibility to those claims. The investigation isn't complete and public, so how would you know what evidence the Mueller team has against anyone connected to the Trump campaign? I'm not suggesting that the president or anyone closely connected to him is guilty of anything. I just want to know, based on the evidence (which has not yet been revealed), how you can be so certain?

I have no informed opinion on the Mueller investigation. All I know for sure is that an investigation is ongoing that has not been completed or made public, that several Trump campaign officials are under indictment and that there are at least a couple of them cooperating with the investigation. I prefer to wait until the investigation is over to try to understand the contents of it's conclusions. However, I have no doubt that the Trump haters will use it to support their claims that he is unfit for his office, even if he is completely exonerated. It will be the old guilt by association ploy. Conversely, the Trump worshippers will either be vindicated (and rub everyone's noses in it) or will dismiss the investigation's conclusions as "fake" or politically motivated. A little caution is advised for the just in case scenario in which those claims can't be so easily dismissed by sticking one's head in the sand.

(05-26-2018 04:58 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Not one 1 single vote was obtained by the Russians.

There is more proof the Earth is flat (its not) than there is the Russians influenced anything.....Hahahahaha.

Pretty damning indictment.

(05-26-2018 06:02 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  I find the whole thing amusing, in a this-stuff-is-so-bizarre-it's-laughable kind of way. Those who would love to see Trump go down in flames latch onto any possibility of impropriety in the hopes that it will cause the removal of our national embarrassment. The die-hard Trump supporters are so invested in their hero worship of him that it has become cult-like. No possibility exists for them that his statements, actions or policies aren't 100% in the best interests of the country.

As it relates to Russian influence on the presidential election, people often mistakenly equate the proven fact that entities within Russia attempted to influence the election with the unproven assertion that members of Trump's campaign colluded with foreign entities for the purpose of impacting the election. Those are two distinct things. We know that Russians at the very least sought to sow discord among Americans (from the old communist playbook 1950s-70s) and may have thought they could influence American voters away from Hillary, who they hated. They didn't realize most of us already hated her and didn't need their assistance in reaching that conclusion.

Separate from the Russian attempts at election influence charges, which are certainly true, is the Trump campaign collusion claim and the investigation into those claims by Mueller. These claims have not yet been proven. But I continue to be amused that the dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporter dismisses out of hand that there is any credibility to those claims. The investigation isn't complete and public, so how would you know what evidence the Mueller team has against anyone connected to the Trump campaign? I'm not suggesting that the president or anyone closely connected to him is guilty of anything. I just want to know, based on the evidence (which has not yet been revealed), how you can be so certain?

I have no informed opinion on the Mueller investigation. All I know for sure is that an investigation is ongoing that has not been completed or made public, that several Trump campaign officials are under indictment and that there are at least a couple of them cooperating with the investigation. I prefer to wait until the investigation is over to try to understand the contents of it's conclusions. However, I have no doubt that the Trump haters will use it to support their claims that he is unfit for his office, even if he is completely exonerated. It will be the old guilt by association ploy. Conversely, the Trump worshippers will either be vindicated (and rub everyone's noses in it) or will dismiss the investigation's conclusions as "fake" or politically motivated. A little caution is advised for the just in case scenario in which those claims can't be so easily dismissed by sticking one's head in the sand.

It must be satisfying to sit above it all and dissect all of the players. I suspect you are one of the moderates that will love tell us all ‘I told you so’.

Unfortunately this is a political war where all Americans should take sides. The outcome matters and as we are seeing now, and without doubt I believe, all of the players are political. You believe Mueller to be ethical and will investigate in that way. I believe he is political and I present his choices of lawyers as evidence of that.

Mueller’s investigation has far reaching effect on this country and its constitution. Do we want a figure head president that is a puppet of the deep unelected state or do we want a separate and strong 3rd branch of government performing its constitutional duties of checks and balance.

(05-26-2018 06:02 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  I find the whole thing amusing, in a this-stuff-is-so-bizarre-it's-laughable kind of way. Those who would love to see Trump go down in flames latch onto any possibility of impropriety in the hopes that it will cause the removal of our national embarrassment. The die-hard Trump supporters are so invested in their hero worship of him that it has become cult-like. No possibility exists for them that his statements, actions or policies aren't 100% in the best interests of the country.

He's not an embarrassment, except to those who'd like us to believe that they are above the fray, but actually aren't. Your last assertion is unsupportable and only your personal opinion.

(05-26-2018 06:02 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  As it relates to Russian influence on the presidential election, people often mistakenly equate the proven fact that entities within Russia attempted to influence the election with the unproven assertion that members of Trump's campaign colluded with foreign entities for the purpose of impacting the election. Those are two distinct things. We know that Russians at the very least sought to sow discord among Americans (from the old communist playbook 1950s-70s) and may have thought they could influence American voters away from Hillary, who they hated. They didn't realize most of us already hated her and didn't need their assistance in reaching that conclusion.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

(05-26-2018 06:02 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Separate from the Russian attempts at election influence charges, which are certainly true, is the Trump campaign collusion claim and the investigation into those claims by Mueller. These claims have not yet been proven. But I continue to be amused that the dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporter dismisses out of hand that there is any credibility to those claims. The investigation isn't complete and public, so how would you know what evidence the Mueller team has against anyone connected to the Trump campaign? I'm not suggesting that the president or anyone closely connected to him is guilty of anything. I just want to know, based on the evidence (which has not yet been revealed), how you can be so certain?

We're not dismissing anything out of hand. Quite the contrary, there's a mountain of evidence supporting our belief that not only was there no collusion between Trump and the Russians to influence our election, the entire episode was manufactured to damage Trump, both before and after his election. Coupled with the fact that Congressional investigators have found no evidence of collusion, I'd say the safest bet at this time was that.........there was no collusion.

(05-26-2018 06:02 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  I have no informed opinion on the Mueller investigation. All I know for sure is that an investigation is ongoing that has not been completed or made public, that several Trump campaign officials are under indictment and that there are at least a couple of them cooperating with the investigation. I prefer to wait until the investigation is over to try to understand the contents of it's conclusions. However, I have no doubt that the Trump haters will use it to support their claims that he is unfit for his office, even if he is completely exonerated. It will be the old guilt by association ploy. Conversely, the Trump worshippers will either be vindicated (and rub everyone's noses in it) or will dismiss the investigation's conclusions as "fake" or politically motivated. A little caution is advised for the just in case scenario in which those claims can't be so easily dismissed by sticking one's head in the sand.

One need only look at charges Mueller has filed against Trump campaign officials. Money laundering in a case that's over 10 years old and was already under investigation by the FBI and Flynn and Papadoc for lying to the FBI during an interview. That's what's going to bring him down? Yeah, the investigation is still ongoing, but after a year in for Mueller, and almost another year before that for the FBI, again, I'd say the safe bet is that there's no there there.

I didn't start out as a big Trump fan, but have always been a big fan of our constitution. I was suspicious of Trump's past and believe what many libs tried to make everyone believe, that'd he'd govern as a liberal.

Trump though has so far exceeded my expectations, kept so many of his campaign promises, and continues to push ideas that appeal to me, that feel free to call me a Trump-bot. I love the man and until he starts acting like a weasel liberal, that will continue.

(05-26-2018 08:23 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  It must be satisfying to sit above it all and dissect all of the players. I suspect you are one of the moderates that will love tell us all ‘I told you so’.

Unfortunately this is a political war where all Americans should take sides. The outcome matters and as we are seeing now, and without doubt I believe, all of the players are political. You believe Mueller to be ethical and will investigate in that way. I believe he is political and I present his choices of lawyers as evidence of that.

Mueller’s investigation has far reaching effect on this country and its constitution. Do we want a figure head president that is a puppet of the deep unelected state or do we want a separate and strong 3rd branch of government performing its constitutional duties of checks and balance.

It is quite unsatisfying to be sure. What you see as attempting to be "above it all," I see as a refusal to be a party to the destruction of civil political discussion. As Americans, we should be able to disagree of matters of importance without being so disagreeable. The political war, as you have phrased it, is unnecessary. There have always been decent people all along the political spectrum, yet the major players seem perfectly happy to have created an us vs. them scenario in which people are compelled to align with one extreme or another.

Labels are a matter of perspective, I suppose, but I have been a true conservative all of my life. What I see from our president and many of his followers has no claim to the conservatism of Russell Kirk, William F. Buckley or the many thinking conservatives of the last 60 years.
I don't let the Alex Jones, group think, liberals are my enemy, type of mentality guide my understanding of conservatism or the things I believe about our country or our society. Liberal policies, in my view, are in many cases dangerous to our country's well being and are to be opposed vigorously. There is a decided difference between having a well intentioned belief in what I think is bad policy and actually being a bad person. Some here can't seem to wrap their minds around that.

Again, while I believe there may have been mistakes made among the political neophytes within the Trump campaign, I do not believe there was collusion in the legal sense and I do not believe any of those errors will fall at the feet of Trump. However, not being a believer in the deep state conspiracy, I will wait until the investigation is over and public to dissect it's conclusions.

(05-26-2018 10:29 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 08:23 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  It must be satisfying to sit above it all and dissect all of the players. I suspect you are one of the moderates that will love tell us all ‘I told you so’.

Unfortunately this is a political war where all Americans should take sides. The outcome matters and as we are seeing now, and without doubt I believe, all of the players are political. You believe Mueller to be ethical and will investigate in that way. I believe he is political and I present his choices of lawyers as evidence of that.

Mueller’s investigation has far reaching effect on this country and its constitution. Do we want a figure head president that is a puppet of the deep unelected state or do we want a separate and strong 3rd branch of government performing its constitutional duties of checks and balance.

It is quite unsatisfying to be sure. What you see as attempting to be "above it all," I see as a refusal to be a party to the destruction of civil political discussion. As Americans, we should be able to disagree of matters of importance without being so disagreeable. The political war, as you have phrased it, is unnecessary. There have always been decent people all along the political spectrum, yet the major players seem perfectly happy to have created an us vs. them scenario in which people are compelled to align with one extreme or another.

Labels are a matter of perspective, I suppose, but I have been a true conservative all of my life. What I see from our president and many of his followers has no claim to the conservatism of Russell Kirk, William F. Buckley or the many thinking conservatives of the last 60 years.
I don't let the Alex Jones, group think, liberals are my enemy, type of mentality guide my understanding of conservatism or the things I believe about our country or our society. Liberal policies, in my view, are in many cases dangerous to our country's well being and are to be opposed vigorously. There is a decided difference between having a well intentioned belief in what I think is bad policy and actually being a bad person. Some here can't seem to wrap their minds around that.

Again, while I believe there may have been mistakes made among the political neophytes within the Trump campaign, I do not believe there was collusion in the legal sense and I do not believe any of those errors will fall at the feet of Trump. However, not being a believer in the deep state conspiracy, I will wait until the investigation is over and public to dissect it's conclusions.

I'm not even sure there is a legal sense when it comes to collusion. As for all the other fluff, when the political party in power believes it's okay to use US intelligence forces against its opponents during an election cycle, I'd say we're well past the point of civil political discussion.

If you're as conservative as you claim, then you should be screaming that congressional investigators get to the bottom of the abuses of the executive branch during the 2016 runup to the election. If that doesn't bother you, then I might suggest you're not nearly as conservative as you'd have us believe.

(05-26-2018 09:43 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  I didn't start out as a big Trump fan, but have always been a big fan of our constitution. I was suspicious of Trump's past and believe what many libs tried to make everyone believe, that'd he'd govern as a liberal.

Trump though has so far exceeded my expectations, kept so many of his campaign promises, and continues to push ideas that appeal to me, that feel free to call me a Trump-bot. I love the man and until he starts acting like a weasel liberal, that will continue.

I continue to be skeptical of Trump and his ability to navigate his office effectively. Although I didn't vote for him (or Hillary either), I was happy that Hillary was defeated, that the media was drowning in their tears and that the appointments of the next four years wouldn't have many of the same political beliefs of those appointed in the previous eight years.

Like you, I am a huge fan of the constitution the way it was written and not the way it has been bastardized by our judiciary. Likewise, I believe the role of our president isn't simply to ramrod an agenda through congress, sidestep congressional responsibilities through executive orders and ignore significant segments of our population. Obama did all of that and I have certainly hoped for more out of Trump. I believe our president should set the direction for the country and allow our congress to hash out the details. I believe the president should be very partisan during an election, then put it aside to govern in the interest of all Americans. His speech and rhetoric shouldn't foster more division among us, but should remind us of our common goals as a nation.

I wouldn't call you a Trump-bot TR, if for no other reason that I believe that all of the name-calling is detrimental to all of us. I do, however, believe that many of Trump's supporters would ignore anything he says or does that is negative, because of nothing more substantial than "yeah, team" and MAGA. I hold all of our leaders accountable, especially those that say that they represent my political philosophy.

(05-26-2018 10:37 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  I'm not even sure there is a legal sense when it comes to collusion. As for all the other fluff, when the political party in power believes it's okay to use US intelligence forces against its opponents during an election cycle, I'd say we're well past the point of civil political discussion.

If you're as conservative as you claim, then you should be screaming that congressional investigators get to the bottom of the abuses of the executive branch during the 2016 runup to the election. If that doesn't bother you, then I might suggest you're not nearly as conservative as you'd have us believe.

If you truly believe that we are past the point of civil political discussion, then you must believe that a true civil war is upon us. On what issue have you chosen to believe that the line has been crossed and we must now kill our neighbors to force them to be in line with our beliefs? I don't think for a minute that we are at that point.

No one gets to define me or my beliefs. I can do that just fine for myself. But I submit that a large portion of those on this board would have difficulty defining what it means to be a true conservative.

(05-26-2018 10:52 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Likewise, I believe the role of our president isn't simply to ramrod an agenda through congress, sidestep congressional responsibilities through executive orders and ignore significant segments of our population. Obama did all of that and I have certainly hoped for more out of Trump. I believe our president should set the direction for the country and allow our congress to hash out the details. I believe the president should be very partisan during an election, then put it aside to govern in the interest of all Americans. His speech and rhetoric shouldn't foster more division among us, but should remind us of our common goals as a nation.

On bolded part, I believe that that is how this president started out.....letting by-gones be by-gones and trying to govern in the interest of all Americans. I believe he's still trying to govern in the interest of all Americans but once it became clear to him that there were illegal forces who not only tried to stop him during his campaign, but were trying to sabotage his presidency, the gloves came off.

This president, IMHO, has shown amazing restraint to date in putting up with the stonewalling of the FBI and DOJ in particular as it relates to legitimate congressional investigations to find out what they were up to during the campaign. His presidency is a breath of fresh air compared to the intentionally devisive presidency of the the Magic Man.

We're a divided country and that won't change soon. It's obvious that no matter what Trump does or says, half the country will whine and screech. As long as that half who are whining and screeching are being dragged along to a better country, which is what I'm seeing right now, then I'm okay with Trump's performance.

(05-26-2018 11:00 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 10:37 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  I'm not even sure there is a legal sense when it comes to collusion. As for all the other fluff, when the political party in power believes it's okay to use US intelligence forces against its opponents during an election cycle, I'd say we're well past the point of civil political discussion.

If you're as conservative as you claim, then you should be screaming that congressional investigators get to the bottom of the abuses of the executive branch during the 2016 runup to the election. If that doesn't bother you, then I might suggest you're not nearly as conservative as you'd have us believe.

If you truly believe that we are past the point of civil political discussion, then you must believe that a true civil war is upon us. On what issue have you chosen to believe that the line has been crossed and we must now kill our neighbors to force them to be in line with our beliefs? I don't think for a minute that we are at that point.

No one gets to define me or my beliefs. I can do that just fine for myself. But I submit that a large portion of those on this board would have difficulty defining what it means to be a true conservative.

Phuck off with that kind of talk dude, I never said any such thing and you know it.

The concept of civil political discussion is all in the definition, no? I obviously define it differently than you, though if you're a student of history, you would know that lamenting the state today's political discussion is just silly, we've had far far worse in our past.

And I'm not trying to define you because I don't give a rat's ass what you are. I just responded to your characterization of yourself and asked a question: if you're as conservative as you claim, are you not outraged at the absuses of power that are being revealed on a daily basis by the Obama administration in an attempt to thwart the will of the American people in an election? If not, then I suggest you're not nearly as conservative as you'd have us believe. That's all.

Please forgive me for mischaracterizing your statement. It was over the top and I did so for effect, but it wasn't necessary.

I don't even know how to respond to the last part though. Liberals should be just as offended as conservatives when there are abuses of power. One's foundational principles shouldn't be able to be changed depending upon who is in office or by who commits a crime. If they ever get around to a full investigation of the Clinton Foundation, anyone who cares about our country should be offended by their abuse of power, not just conservatives. Sorry, I'm just not following your reasoning, I suppose.

(05-26-2018 11:31 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Please forgive me for mischaracterizing your statement. It was over the top and I did so for effect, but it wasn't necessary.

I don't even know how to respond to the last part though. Liberals should be just as offended as conservatives when there are abuses of power. One's foundational principles shouldn't be able to be changed depending upon who is in office or by who commits a crime. If they ever get around to a full investigation of the Clinton Foundation, anyone who cares about our country should be offended by their abuse of power, not just conservatives. Sorry, I'm just not following your reasoning, I suppose.

Apology accepted, and yes, you are following my reasoning.

We agree that EVERYONE, conservative or liberal, should be offended when constitutional norms are tossed aside for political gain. I've long held that liberal's principles are generally malleable, and today's events and their response confirms that long-held view.

Had George W. Bush done the same to Obama as he was campaigning and then taking office, liberals would have been screaming bloody murder AND RIGHTFULLY SO. Today? Not so much.....Clapper: It's good that there was a spy in the Trump campaign. Poster's here: FBI just doing police work.

(05-26-2018 11:40 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 11:31 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Please forgive me for mischaracterizing your statement. It was over the top and I did so for effect, but it wasn't necessary.

I don't even know how to respond to the last part though. Liberals should be just as offended as conservatives when there are abuses of power. One's foundational principles shouldn't be able to be changed depending upon who is in office or by who commits a crime. If they ever get around to a full investigation of the Clinton Foundation, anyone who cares about our country should be offended by their abuse of power, not just conservatives. Sorry, I'm just not following your reasoning, I suppose.

Apology accepted, and yes, you are following my reasoning.

We agree that EVERYONE, conservative or liberal, should be offended when constitutional norms are tossed aside for political gain. I've long held that liberal's principles are generally malleable, and today's events and their response confirms that long-held view.

Had George W. Bush done the same to Obama as he was campaigning and then taking office, liberals would have been screaming bloody murder AND RIGHTFULLY SO. Today? Not so much.....Clapper: It's good that there was a spy in the Trump campaign. Poster's here: FBI just doing police work.

Therein lies the heart of the problem with dealing with liberals, whether it is in Washington or at the local level. Conservatives may be equally concerned about an issue, but their reasons for concern and certainly the manner in which the issue is dealt with are often radically different. Liberals tend to be reactionary, while conservatives value prudence and patience. That is why some liberals see nothing wrong with subscribing to situational ethics. They can justify almost anything, because they did it for "the right reasons."

(05-26-2018 08:23 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 06:02 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  I find the whole thing amusing, in a this-stuff-is-so-bizarre-it's-laughable kind of way. Those who would love to see Trump go down in flames latch onto any possibility of impropriety in the hopes that it will cause the removal of our national embarrassment. The die-hard Trump supporters are so invested in their hero worship of him that it has become cult-like. No possibility exists for them that his statements, actions or policies aren't 100% in the best interests of the country.

As it relates to Russian influence on the presidential election, people often mistakenly equate the proven fact that entities within Russia attempted to influence the election with the unproven assertion that members of Trump's campaign colluded with foreign entities for the purpose of impacting the election. Those are two distinct things. We know that Russians at the very least sought to sow discord among Americans (from the old communist playbook 1950s-70s) and may have thought they could influence American voters away from Hillary, who they hated. They didn't realize most of us already hated her and didn't need their assistance in reaching that conclusion.

Separate from the Russian attempts at election influence charges, which are certainly true, is the Trump campaign collusion claim and the investigation into those claims by Mueller. These claims have not yet been proven. But I continue to be amused that the dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporter dismisses out of hand that there is any credibility to those claims. The investigation isn't complete and public, so how would you know what evidence the Mueller team has against anyone connected to the Trump campaign? I'm not suggesting that the president or anyone closely connected to him is guilty of anything. I just want to know, based on the evidence (which has not yet been revealed), how you can be so certain?

I have no informed opinion on the Mueller investigation. All I know for sure is that an investigation is ongoing that has not been completed or made public, that several Trump campaign officials are under indictment and that there are at least a couple of them cooperating with the investigation. I prefer to wait until the investigation is over to try to understand the contents of it's conclusions. However, I have no doubt that the Trump haters will use it to support their claims that he is unfit for his office, even if he is completely exonerated. It will be the old guilt by association ploy. Conversely, the Trump worshippers will either be vindicated (and rub everyone's noses in it) or will dismiss the investigation's conclusions as "fake" or politically motivated. A little caution is advised for the just in case scenario in which those claims can't be so easily dismissed by sticking one's head in the sand.

It must be satisfying to sit above it all and dissect all of the players. I suspect you are one of the moderates that will love tell us all ‘I told you so’.

Unfortunately this is a political war where all Americans should take sides. The outcome matters and as we are seeing now, and without doubt I believe, all of the players are political. You believe Mueller to be ethical and will investigate in that way. I believe he is political and I present his choices of lawyers as evidence of that.

Mueller’s investigation has far reaching effect on this country and its constitution. Do we want a figure head president that is a puppet of the deep unelected state or do we want a separate and strong 3rd branch of government performing its constitutional duties of checks and balance.

not only has it become plantation owner socialism vs 'controlled' capitalism from both sides, but the deep state evidence is overwhelmingly disturbing for anyone with a fk'n brain that is functional....

it's truly sad how stupid most people are and why line 1b) will most likely win in the end....

(05-26-2018 09:43 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(05-26-2018 06:02 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Separate from the Russian attempts at election influence charges, which are certainly true, is the Trump campaign collusion claim and the investigation into those claims by Mueller. These claims have not yet been proven. But I continue to be amused that the dyed-in-the-wool Trump supporter dismisses out of hand that there is any credibility to those claims. The investigation isn't complete and public, so how would you know what evidence the Mueller team has against anyone connected to the Trump campaign? I'm not suggesting that the president or anyone closely connected to him is guilty of anything. I just want to know, based on the evidence (which has not yet been revealed), how you can be so certain?

We're not dismissing anything out of hand. Quite the contrary, there's a mountain of evidence supporting our belief that not only was there no collusion between Trump and the Russians to influence our election, the entire episode was manufactured to damage Trump, both before and after his election. Coupled with the fact that Congressional investigators have found no evidence of collusion, I'd say the safest bet at this time was that.........there was no collusion.

This.

We've been at this for 2 years. If there were even strong hints that our election were tainted, there is no way we would let the person continue in office. In any other 'crime', there would be a restraining order or injunction. I can't say what the actual legal order would be, but I can't imagine that we would simply let someone elected by fraud with strong evidence against him continue to sit in the office and issue executive orders.

and I am a staunch conservative who would have voted for Bernie over Trump. Let that sink in for a minute.


Here is the REAL issue....

According to the original report by the (11?) agencies, the purpose of Russian meddling in our elections WASN'T to elect a puppet... as Dems routinely charge... it was (and I'm paraphrasing, but close) 'erode confidence in our system'.

And whom is complicit in doing so? Butt-hurt Dems, especially Hillary calling for an end to the EC and all sorts of other things intended to literally erode confidence in our system.

Trump won. We get that 'you' didn't vote for him, but only a few of 'us' voted for Obama. That's modern politics. I didn't vote for him either because he supports some things I don't... but I put up with it because he won. I did the same for Obama, and John McCain is a family friend. Suck it up, put on your big boy pants and get your people elected NEXT time. This whole effort to de-legitimize Trump is PRECISELY what our intelligence people told us Russia was after, and you're giving it to them