(05-20-2018 12:23 PM)AusTxPony Wrote: Read an interesting article in Dallas paper saying that Big 12 might make a push for Arizona and AState to join when new negotiations start. Apparently they are disappointed in PAC network proceeds. That could boost Boise and SDSU up the ladder or PAC could stay at 10. If that happened, the AAC would in fact be P6. I just do not see the Big 12 ever taking another Texas team unless they lose UT.
If they think the PAC has media revenue issues, just what until the next Big 12 media deal.
I think that it would be a good move for both schools. It would help bring some of the west coast action to the middle of the country. It would also allow the Big 12 to play 4 non-conference games which would be nice.
PAC would sell over at least some percentage of ownership of the Networks to ESPN before allowing anyone to leave because of the Networks. They’re not stupid but they are also currently blinded by pride. Once a team threatens to leave they’ll come to their senses and have someone takeover to increase subscribers numbers.
(05-24-2018 12:00 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote: boise which is basically a glorified JUCO is never getting into the PAC.
A million times this. So many times people think about these things exclusively from an athletics standpoint, but some of these conferences (primarily the Pac-12 and the B1G) are at least as interested in their academics. Most of the Pac-12 universities have endowments north of $2BB, and 8 of them are members of the AAU (only Arizona State, Oregon State, Wazzu and Utah are not). Just like there's no way they're ever going to align with the Mormons at BYU (especially after the Proposition 8 debacle), they're definitely not bringing in a member who was a junior college as recently as 1965! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_State_University). And there's no way Arizona's throwing away that academic credibility as well as alienating the 11% of their students who are California residents so they can join a conference with WVU, Texas Tech and Baylor. Even the prospect of an annual game with Oklahoma and Texas isn't going to replace the annual games with USC and UCLA, plus regular games with Cal and Stanford, Colorado, Oregon and Washington. Why do I list those schools? Because there are a helluva lot more people who live in Arizona from LA, the Bay area, Denver, Portland and Seattle than there are from Oklahoma City.
(05-24-2018 12:00 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote: boise which is basically a glorified JUCO is never getting into the PAC.
A million times this. So many times people think about these things exclusively from an athletics standpoint, but some of these conferences (primarily the Pac-12 and the B1G) are at least as interested in their academics. Most of the Pac-12 universities have endowments north of $2BB, and 8 of them are members of the AAU (only Arizona State, Oregon State, Wazzu and Utah are not). Just like there's no way they're ever going to align with the Mormons at BYU (especially after the Proposition 8 debacle), they're definitely not bringing in a member who was a junior college as recently as 1965! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_State_University). And there's no way Arizona's throwing away that academic credibility as well as alienating the 11% of their students who are California residents so they can join a conference with WVU, Texas Tech and Baylor. Even the prospect of an annual game with Oklahoma and Texas isn't going to replace the annual games with USC and UCLA, plus regular games with Cal and Stanford, Colorado, Oregon and Washington. Why do I list those schools? Because there are a helluva lot more people who live in Arizona from LA, the Bay area, Denver, Portland and Seattle than there are from Oklahoma City.
(05-24-2018 12:00 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote: boise which is basically a glorified JUCO is never getting into the PAC.
A million times this. So many times people think about these things exclusively from an athletics standpoint, but some of these conferences (primarily the Pac-12 and the B1G) are at least as interested in their academics. Most of the Pac-12 universities have endowments north of $2BB, and 8 of them are members of the AAU (only Arizona State, Oregon State, Wazzu and Utah are not). Just like there's no way they're ever going to align with the Mormons at BYU (especially after the Proposition 8 debacle), they're definitely not bringing in a member who was a junior college as recently as 1965! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_State_University). And there's no way Arizona's throwing away that academic credibility as well as alienating the 11% of their students who are California residents so they can join a conference with WVU, Texas Tech and Baylor. Even the prospect of an annual game with Oklahoma and Texas isn't going to replace the annual games with USC and UCLA, plus regular games with Cal and Stanford, Colorado, Oregon and Washington. Why do I list those schools? Because there are a helluva lot more people who live in Arizona from LA, the Bay area, Denver, Portland and Seattle than there are from Oklahoma City.
USFFan
This guy gets it.
Agreed, AU and ASU to the Big 12 are about as likely as Clemson and FSU joining the Big 12...zero chance.
(05-24-2018 12:00 PM)Knights_of_UCF Wrote: boise which is basically a glorified JUCO is never getting into the PAC.
A million times this. So many times people think about these things exclusively from an athletics standpoint, but some of these conferences (primarily the Pac-12 and the B1G) are at least as interested in their academics. Most of the Pac-12 universities have endowments north of $2BB, and 8 of them are members of the AAU (only Arizona State, Oregon State, Wazzu and Utah are not). Just like there's no way they're ever going to align with the Mormons at BYU (especially after the Proposition 8 debacle), they're definitely not bringing in a member who was a junior college as recently as 1965! (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boise_State_University). And there's no way Arizona's throwing away that academic credibility as well as alienating the 11% of their students who are California residents so they can join a conference with WVU, Texas Tech and Baylor. Even the prospect of an annual game with Oklahoma and Texas isn't going to replace the annual games with USC and UCLA, plus regular games with Cal and Stanford, Colorado, Oregon and Washington. Why do I list those schools? Because there are a helluva lot more people who live in Arizona from LA, the Bay area, Denver, Portland and Seattle than there are from Oklahoma City.
Thats the only article Ive ever seen to make the case that adding two teams from Arizona would land the California TV market for the Big12. The truth---Arizona has about 7 million people in it. Why would the Big12 add 2 teams from a state that size? They'd be better off adding Arizona and Utah or Arizona and BYU. Hell, Arizona and Colorado St might even make more sense.
As for the Pac12---this growing income gap has only one answer. Texas. The Pac12 must get into Texas. Its the only western state where the Pac12 doesnt have a member with a population large enough to make a real difference in the Pac-12 Network income. Texas all by itself has almost 27 million people with about 9-10 million households. California, the Pac-12's biggest market, has only 11.5 million households despite having 10 million more people than Texas. Arizona has 2.4 million households. It simply makes no economic sense for any P5 to have 2 teams in Arizona.
Strangely, both the Big12 and the Pac12 could potentially "win". If the Big12 took Arizona and say---Utah. Then the Pac12 would still have a team in Arizona---and could take Houston and SMU---getting into Texas. Its not impossible that both conferences could end up being financially stronger over the long term with such a move.
Who has said BSU is going to the P12? The P12 isn’t taking anyone anytime soon. ESP not schools that don’t fit academically. Their fans are high on getting Rice anytime expansion is discussed. BYU is a no go politically and nobody else enhances their academic profile.
(This post was last modified: 05-27-2018 10:04 AM by EDLUVAR.)
Thats the only article Ive ever seen to make the case that adding two teams from Arizona would land the California TV market for the Big12. The truth---Arizona has about 7 million people in it. Why would the Big12 add 2 teams from a state that size? They'd be better off adding Arizona and Utah or Arizona and BYU. Hell, Arizona and Colorado St might even make more sense.
As for the Pac12---this growing income gap has only one answer. Texas. The Pac12 must get into Texas. Its the only western state where the Pac12 doesnt have a member with a population large enough to make a real difference in the Pac-12 Network income. Texas all by itself has almost 27 million people with about 9-10 million households. California, the Pac-12's biggest market, has only 11.5 million households despite having 10 million more people than Texas. Arizona has 2.4 million households. It simply makes no economic sense for any P5 to have 2 teams in Arizona.
Strangely, both the Big12 and the Pac12 could potentially "win". If the Big12 took Arizona and say---Utah. Then the Pac12 would still have a team in Arizona---and could take Houston and SMU---getting into Texas. Its not impossible that both conferences could end up being financially stronger over the long term with such a move.
Who has said BSU is going to the P12? The P12 isn’t taking anyone anytime soon. ESP not schools that don’t fit academically. Their fans are high on getting Rice anytime expansion is discussed. BYU is a no go politically and nobody else enhances their academic profile.
Who said Boise to the PAC? No one. Someone did say SMU and Houston to the PAC and to that I say Bawhahahahaha!
The Big 12 was arrogant and greedy enough to turn down Louisville and Cincinnati when West Virginia joined. They doubled down on that greed by again refusing to add programs that would stabilize their conference. Houston, Central Florida, South Florida, Memphis, Cincinnati and Connecticut would have all increased stability and instantly added value.
Instead The Big 12 accepted more money to not expand.
If your television partners are offering your conference more money not to expand then they have future plans that don't involve your conference. With the expiration of The Big 12 GOR, the conference is playing on borrowed time.
Fox is moving quickly to get out of college football. That leaves an ESPN that is working to change its business model as viewers leave cable. ESPN found no value in The Big 12 when it told the conference no to a network.
Unfortunately for The Big 12 the parts are more valuable than the whole. Texas and Oklahoma can write their tickets to whatever conference they want. If one jumps to The Big Ten or SEC, it will be difficult for The Big 12 to continue as a P5. If both leave it will be next to impossible.
The Big 12 is going to have a tough time selling a Facebook or Amazon media platform to get Texas or Oklahoma to stick around.
Time will tell but I would look for The Big 12 to be parted out like an Old Chevy before Arizona or Arizona State joins that mess.
CJ
(05-28-2018 05:02 AM)CardinalJim Wrote: The Big 12 made their bed, let them lay in it.
The Big 12 was arrogant and greedy enough to turn down Louisville and Cincinnati when West Virginia joined. They doubled down on that greed by again refusing to add programs that would stabilize their conference. Houston, Central Florida, South Florida, Memphis, Cincinnati and Connecticut would have all increased stability and instantly added value.
Instead The Big 12 accepted more money to not expand.
If your television partners are offering your conference more money not to expand then they have future plans that don't involve your conference. With the expiration of The Big 12 GOR, the conference is playing on borrowed time.
Fox is moving quickly to get out of college football. That leaves an ESPN that is working to change its business model as viewers leave cable. ESPN found no value in The Big 12 when it told the conference no to a network.
Unfortunately for The Big 12 the parts are more valuable than the whole. Texas and Oklahoma can write their tickets to whatever conference they want. If one jumps to The Big Ten or SEC, it will be difficult for The Big 12 to continue as a P5. If both leave it will be next to impossible.
The Big 12 is going to have a tough time selling a Facebook or Amazon media platform to get Texas or Oklahoma to stick around.
Time will tell but I would look for The Big 12 to be parted out like an Old Chevy before Arizona or Arizona State joins that mess.
CJ
I agree with some of what you are saying here. That said, I’m not really seeing any evidence that FOX is trying get out of college football. They just massively outbid ESPN for the Big10 rights. They may be comfotprtable with thier comfortable with their current level of exposure to college football—but I’ve seen no evidence they are seeking to cut thier present exposure.
(05-21-2018 12:50 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote: Memphis and Cincinnati to the BIG12
UCF and ECU to the ACC
Southern Miss, UAB, Army, and Marshall get brought up to the American
USF folds their program
A man can dream, lol.....
Another 0-12 season for you is more likely, if we're still dreaming....
It’s entirely possible but we’d end up going to another nyd bowl a few seasons later and you guys will still be staring at an empty trophy case
...but it's not empty, USF has won more bowl games than UCF. You cant roast us if it doesnt make any sense
To be fair to Jaredf29 when ucf fans think of trophies we think of conference championships and NY6 bowl wins. Obviously the standards need to set a little lower at usf because you have neither.
(05-21-2018 12:50 PM)thespiritof1976 Wrote: Memphis and Cincinnati to the BIG12
UCF and ECU to the ACC
Southern Miss, UAB, Army, and Marshall get brought up to the American
USF folds their program
A man can dream, lol.....
Another 0-12 season for you is more likely, if we're still dreaming....
It’s entirely possible but we’d end up going to another nyd bowl a few seasons later and you guys will still be staring at an empty trophy case
...but it's not empty, USF has won more bowl games than UCF. You cant roast us if it doesnt make any sense
To be fair to Jaredf29 when ucf fans think of trophies we think of conference championships and NY6 bowl wins. Obviously the standards need to set a little lower at usf because you have neither.
(05-21-2018 11:05 PM)jaredf29 Wrote: It’s entirely possible but we’d end up going to another nyd bowl a few seasons later and you guys will still be staring at an empty trophy case
...but it's not empty, USF has won more bowl games than UCF. You cant roast us if it doesnt make any sense
Relax, it's cool to be proud of Beef O' Brady's trophies, it's not that weird.
(05-21-2018 11:05 PM)jaredf29 Wrote: It’s entirely possible but we’d end up going to another nyd bowl a few seasons later and you guys will still be staring at an empty trophy case
...but it's not empty, USF has won more bowl games than UCF. You cant roast us if it doesnt make any sense
Relax, it's cool to be proud of Beef O' Brady's trophies, it's not that weird.
Hey! They also have the PapaJohns.com Bowl, International Bowl, Meineke Car Care Bowl, and 2 Birmingham Bowl trophies! Those are some coveted trophies!
![[Image: 8868eb0ad5afd9977bf752b4f89e39f0.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/88/68/eb/8868eb0ad5afd9977bf752b4f89e39f0.jpg)
