https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-preve...1826142891

"'No Way to Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"

I would suggest looking at the "recommended articles" at the bottom as well.

A good article by TIME written a few years ago. Don't stop reading early and miss the last 5 or so paragraphs.

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swi...hat-works/

(05-21-2018 05:29 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(05-20-2018 06:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-20-2018 05:43 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(05-18-2018 02:58 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-18-2018 01:03 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  You mean like taking away things from law abiding citizens?

It's always, "do something".

Then when it happens again, "Do more".

Then when it happens again, "Do something else".

Well we are basically in a " throw .... against the wall and see what sticks" situation. I don't know there is one solution, so for now I'd be fine with "do something"

I don't see any gun laws out there that will do much to help. When I was in school in the early 70's, Pick up trucks in the student parking lot had shot guns and rifles in the back windows. and 1/2 the male students had pocket knives in their pockets. and if you went out to the parking lot you would have found more guns and knives there.

We had bullies then, and we had fist fights, but guns and knives were not part of the game, and killing 10 or more students was not on the to do list.
That said, I think you have to make schools gun free as far as students go, and harden the entrance point/points to the schools. And I think you have to have trained, vetted, armed, personnel at the schools, whether that be guards, cops, or teacher/administrators.
I also think it is better than some of them not be visibly carrying.

The above will not stop all of the shootings, but will prevent some, and end others before dozens die.

(05-21-2018 08:30 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  That said, I think you have to make schools gun free as far as students go, and harden the entrance point/points to the schools. And I think you have to have trained, vetted, armed, personnel at the schools, whether that be guards, cops, or teacher/administrators.

Agree.

(05-21-2018 08:30 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  That said, I think you have to make schools gun free as far as students go, and harden the entrance point/points to the schools. And I think you have to have trained, vetted, armed, personnel at the schools, whether that be guards, cops, or teacher/administrators.

Agree.

(05-21-2018 08:30 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 05:29 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(05-20-2018 06:02 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-20-2018 05:43 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(05-18-2018 02:58 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

It's always, "do something".

Then when it happens again, "Do more".

Then when it happens again, "Do something else".

Well we are basically in a " throw .... against the wall and see what sticks" situation. I don't know there is one solution, so for now I'd be fine with "do something"

I don't see any gun laws out there that will do much to help. When I was in school in the early 70's, Pick up trucks in the student parking lot had shot guns and rifles in the back windows. and 1/2 the male students had pocket knives in their pockets. and if you went out to the parking lot you would have found more guns and knives there.

We had bullies then, and we had fist fights, but guns and knives were not part of the game, and killing 10 or more students was not on the to do list.
That said, I think you have to make schools gun free as far as students go, and harden the entrance point/points to the schools. And I think you have to have trained, vetted, armed, personnel at the schools, whether that be guards, cops, or teacher/administrators.
I also think it is better than some of them not be visibly carrying.

The above will not stop all of the shootings, but will prevent some, and end others before dozens die.

I think it's safe to assume the ban on automatic weapons saves a lot of lives every year.

I'm honestly surprised that we don't have finger print readers on the grips of guns yet. The technology is there. If we can't pass laws to regulate the sale of firearms, then we should at least pass regulations on how they are made. If guns had a chip in the grip that read your fingerprint before you could fire the weapon, this latest atrocity would not have been possible. I realize that's more of a band-aid than a real solution, but stolen weapons are involved in a large portion of gun related deaths.

(05-20-2018 10:10 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(05-20-2018 08:04 PM)ragin4u Wrote:  

(05-20-2018 07:26 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(05-20-2018 06:23 PM)ragin4u Wrote:  This time it wasnt an AR15. Want to take bets on the next on? Because we know GD well there will be a next one. Until parents or the anti-NRA or someone puts enough dollars into the pockets of our **** politicians, it will continue to happen. How can these thoughts and prayers MFers sleep at night. Again the WORLD plays video games and takes ritalin and watches movies and have shiit home lifes. We are the only place with a mass shooting epidemic. Oh and you one door people like TX Lt governor, you have heard of fires, right?

Only problem with all of the school shootings taking place over the past two or three decades, and how many people want to primarily place the blame on guns is history. Back when I was in grade school - primarily in the 60's - guns were much easier to obtain than they are today. Lots of high schools even had gun clubs that the kids could join. Kids in those clubs would routinely bring their guns to school with them (see link). Schools didn't tend to have armed officers in them. There were next to no shootings in high schools in spite of those things being the norm.

So what has really changed to create the environment we are in today? I think that it is society, how the kids are being raised - i.e. how much time the parents are spending with the kids and teaching them right and wrong, and social media. We live in a country today where everybody gets a trophy. A country where no one is allowed to get their feelings hurt, yet bullying is probably at an all time high among grade school kids. It is so much easier to talk badly about someone behind their back to others via social media than it is to do it face to face with others. It also reaches a lot more people and happens instantly. I think there is a higher percentage of kids today that are less socially adjusted than there was 40-50-60 years ago.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/01/g...c-w-cooke/

Good points. But that only applies when the shooter is a kid. Many mass shootings committed by adults.

And who do the kids grow up to be (adults)? Some these days are inclined to do it while still in their teens, while others are not so inclined till they reach their 20's, 30's, etc. Besides, we are talking about school shootings here which are mostly being carried out by teens.

Years ago it was more prevalent to have serial killers like the Zodiac Killer, Son of Sam killer, etc. that would kill one at a time on multiple occasions than it was to have a random person terrorize a shopping mall or a school, killing as many as they could in just a few minutes - probably knowing that in most cases it would end up being a suicide mission.

I get that this started as a school-related thread but you have to agree that all of these mass shootings have correlations. And while school shootings have increased, school-related crime has decreased significantly. Someone mentioned trying something, anything, and I agree. I do not think that more guns is a solution, unless you own stock in Armalite, etc.

A few assumptions that are all true of these school shooters:

1) he was horribly bullied by ******** at the school
2) he has no father at home
3) he is on some sort of personality-altering medication

(05-21-2018 10:33 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  A few assumptions that are all true of these school shooters:

1) he was horribly bullied by ******** at the school
2) he has no father at home
3) he is on some sort of personality-altering medication

This guy played football at the high school and had friends and according to some at the school, he spared the people that he liked.

Also, the guns he used were his father's guns. His dad is still very much in his life.

I'm not sure if he was on any medication, but this little profile of all school shooters isn't accurate at all.

(05-21-2018 10:45 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 10:33 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  A few assumptions that are all true of these school shooters:

1) he was horribly bullied by ******** at the school
2) he has no father at home
3) he is on some sort of personality-altering medication

This guy played football at the high school and had friends and according to some at the school, he spared the people that he liked.

Also, the guns he used were his father's guns. His dad is still very much in his life.

I'm not sure if he was on any medication, but this little profile of all school shooters isn't accurate at all.

Your first point doesn't address my first point at all. Just because he "had friends" doesn't mean some of the pricks at his high school didn't constantly torment him. Also, cyberbullying of course.

His father's guns = Dad is very much in his life
Again, no.

"I'm not sure if he was on any medication"
Okay?

(05-20-2018 05:43 PM)HogDawg Wrote:  

(05-18-2018 02:58 PM)MTPiKapp Wrote:  

(05-18-2018 01:03 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(05-18-2018 12:59 PM)OwlFamily Wrote:  I saw something that makes sumamrizes my feelings on this...

"No more Thoughts & Prayers, its time for Policy and Change"

This has to stop.

You mean like taking away things from law abiding citizens?

Very few are talking disarmament, and no things like expanded background checks, increased registration laws, ending undocumented personal sales, ending gunshow loopholes etc is not "taking things away from law abiding citizens".

Except this Santa Fe, TX kid killed with guns he got from daddy, so expanded background checks and increased registration laws, etc... would not have helped in this instance. Furthermore, it is my understanding that this killer used a shotgun and hand guns, not AR15 rifles, etc....to do most of his damage.

Yep.

There is no solution, short of full and complete disarmament, that will almost entirely eliminate these shootings. If you don't think disarmament would work, I'd point to Australia.

Now to be clear, I don't support disarmament, but mainly because I realize how utterly impossible it would be in this country. For starters, if we went the buyback route and similar measures to Australia, we'd be looking at a cost in the hundreds of billions of dollars. I'm a gun owner myself, I don't much care for handguns(though I own one 9mm) but I very much enjoy shooting clay, but if I believed disarmament was possible, I don't enjoy shooting clay more than I would enjoy living in a world where mass shootings don't happen, but while it has worked in other countries, the toothpaste is out of the tube in this country I'm afraid.

So taking disarmament off the table, every solution will have examples people like yourself can say "yeah, but that wouldn't have stopped the _______ shooting" true as that may be, it would have stopped or lessened the death toll in any number of others.

There are so many products, goods, services and industries that are far more relevant to our daily lives than firearms that are regulated much more closely. I'd say the easiest comparison would be driver's rights where you have to be a certain age to even legally start learning to drive, you must prove your competency, you have to acquire insurance before legally purchasing a car, you have to(at least in many areas of the country) prove your car is still running safely every so often, all sales require a bill of sale, when you move you have a certain number of days to register your car to your new city/county/state, and we are constantly working to make cars safer.

I'm not suggesting every one of those ideas should be copied exactly or at all, but we have to go through all tbat and no one is crying "the government is taking our cars away!".

The predictable response is something about the second amendment.

1) Nothing being discussed(even proposed bans on specific guns) would be contrary to the 2A.

2) The constitution predates automobiles by at least a century.

3) Perhaps most importantly, the constitution was purposefully written to be updated and amended, let's not forget that the same constitution that 2A hardliners hold so dear also allowed slavery to go on a further ~90 years and restricted the right to vote to only landowning white men for ~150, so let's stop pretending like a group of wealthy, white men from two and a half centuries ago had perfected the idea of American life in perpetuity.

(05-21-2018 10:58 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 10:45 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 10:33 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  A few assumptions that are all true of these school shooters:

1) he was horribly bullied by ******** at the school
2) he has no father at home
3) he is on some sort of personality-altering medication

This guy played football at the high school and had friends and according to some at the school, he spared the people that he liked.

Also, the guns he used were his father's guns. His dad is still very much in his life.

I'm not sure if he was on any medication, but this little profile of all school shooters isn't accurate at all.

Your first point doesn't address my first point at all. Just because he "had friends" doesn't mean some of the pricks at his high school didn't constantly torment him. Also, cyberbullying of course.

His father's guns = Dad is very much in his life
Again, no.

"I'm not sure if he was on any medication"
Okay?

So you know this kid personally and know all of the things you said about him to be true and all the things I've read about him to be false? Sit down.

(05-21-2018 11:49 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 10:58 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 10:45 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 10:33 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  A few assumptions that are all true of these school shooters:

1) he was horribly bullied by ******** at the school
2) he has no father at home
3) he is on some sort of personality-altering medication

This guy played football at the high school and had friends and according to some at the school, he spared the people that he liked.

Also, the guns he used were his father's guns. His dad is still very much in his life.

I'm not sure if he was on any medication, but this little profile of all school shooters isn't accurate at all.

Your first point doesn't address my first point at all. Just because he "had friends" doesn't mean some of the pricks at his high school didn't constantly torment him. Also, cyberbullying of course.

His father's guns = Dad is very much in his life
Again, no.

"I'm not sure if he was on any medication"
Okay?

So you know this kid personally and know all of the things you said about him to be true and all the things I've read about him to be false? Sit down.

the first two can be proven to be true. He did get bullied, even by the coaches. And he lived in a different home than his dad.

Instead of more laws that are akin to a frog in a boiling pot, how about we start looking at why kids become so fracked up in the first place ?

Geez. The defeatism with some of you is atrocious.

(05-21-2018 10:20 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I'm honestly surprised that we don't have finger print readers on the grips of guns yet. The technology is there. If we can't pass laws to regulate the sale of firearms, then we should at least pass regulations on how they are made. If guns had a chip in the grip that read your fingerprint before you could fire the weapon, this latest atrocity would not have been possible. I realize that's more of a band-aid than a real solution, but stolen weapons are involved in a large portion of gun related deaths.

Interesting thought.

(05-21-2018 02:39 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 10:20 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I'm honestly surprised that we don't have finger print readers on the grips of guns yet. The technology is there. If we can't pass laws to regulate the sale of firearms, then we should at least pass regulations on how they are made. If guns had a chip in the grip that read your fingerprint before you could fire the weapon, this latest atrocity would not have been possible. I realize that's more of a band-aid than a real solution, but stolen weapons are involved in a large portion of gun related deaths.

Interesting thought.

Because fingerprint readers never malfunction, right?

There are tings that can be done with current technology and current laws to reduce gun violence significantly. OK, I'd change a couple of laws--I'd legalize marijuana and decriminalize other drugs and I'd change the HIPAA disclosure rules. But there's a lot we could do.

2/3 of our gun deaths are suicides, and almost 2/3 of the rest are gang related. That's about 30,000 out of 35,000, in total. Let's try to do something about those, instead of the 100 that come from "assault weapons,"

(05-21-2018 02:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 02:39 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 10:20 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I'm honestly surprised that we don't have finger print readers on the grips of guns yet. The technology is there. If we can't pass laws to regulate the sale of firearms, then we should at least pass regulations on how they are made. If guns had a chip in the grip that read your fingerprint before you could fire the weapon, this latest atrocity would not have been possible. I realize that's more of a band-aid than a real solution, but stolen weapons are involved in a large portion of gun related deaths.

Interesting thought.

Because fingerprint readers never malfunction, right?

I'm not talking about the basic ones you might find on an iphone. High end fingerprint readers are very reliable. There are also other things that are unique to an individual that could be scanned like palm veins. When I took a certification test recently, they had to take a scan of my palm vein structure in order for me to get in an out of the testing room.

(05-21-2018 03:27 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 02:42 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 02:39 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(05-21-2018 10:20 AM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  I'm honestly surprised that we don't have finger print readers on the grips of guns yet. The technology is there. If we can't pass laws to regulate the sale of firearms, then we should at least pass regulations on how they are made. If guns had a chip in the grip that read your fingerprint before you could fire the weapon, this latest atrocity would not have been possible. I realize that's more of a band-aid than a real solution, but stolen weapons are involved in a large portion of gun related deaths.

Interesting thought.

Because fingerprint readers never malfunction, right?

I'm not talking about the basic ones you might find on an iphone. High end fingerprint readers are very reliable. There are also other things that are unique to an individual that could be scanned like palm veins. When I took a certification test recently, they had to take a scan of my palm vein structure in order for me to get in an out of the testing room.

And of course, such technology will not add to the cost of guns.