(05-13-2018 01:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-13-2018 01:18 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I actually think there’s significant overlap in the pro-Bailiff, anti-Graham crowd.

Odd. I think there is a significant overlap in the anti-Bailiff, anti-Graham, anti-JK, anti-Pera, anti-BOT, anti-Leebron crowd.

Some people are just anti-everybody.

I think it likely some of them will be anti-Bloomgren before the end of 2018.

JMHO.

Fire Bloomgren! Zero wins so far! None. Nada. Zilch. Unacceptable.

(05-14-2018 07:43 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(05-13-2018 01:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-13-2018 01:18 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I actually think there’s significant overlap in the pro-Bailiff, anti-Graham crowd.

Odd. I think there is a significant overlap in the anti-Bailiff, anti-Graham, anti-JK, anti-Pera, anti-BOT, anti-Leebron crowd.

Some people are just anti-everybody.

I think it likely some of them will be anti-Bloomgren before the end of 2018.

JMHO.

Fire Bloomgren! Zero wins so far! None. Nada. Zilch. Unacceptable.

I guess you are confused, as usual, as to when the end of 2018 happens.

If we are 1-12, or worse, in December, you may have company. It won't be me, but there are those out there saying we should be quick on the trigger.

(05-14-2018 09:22 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 07:43 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(05-13-2018 01:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-13-2018 01:18 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I actually think there’s significant overlap in the pro-Bailiff, anti-Graham crowd.

Odd. I think there is a significant overlap in the anti-Bailiff, anti-Graham, anti-JK, anti-Pera, anti-BOT, anti-Leebron crowd.

Some people are just anti-everybody.

I think it likely some of them will be anti-Bloomgren before the end of 2018.

JMHO.

Fire Bloomgren! Zero wins so far! None. Nada. Zilch. Unacceptable.

I guess you are confused, as usual, as to when the end of 2018 happens.

If we are 1-12, or worse, in December, you may have company. It won't be me, but there are those out there saying we should be quick on the trigger.

"Hasn't played any games yet." Such a typical Bloomgren apologist excuse.

(05-14-2018 12:44 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 09:22 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 07:43 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  

(05-13-2018 01:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-13-2018 01:18 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I actually think there’s significant overlap in the pro-Bailiff, anti-Graham crowd.

Odd. I think there is a significant overlap in the anti-Bailiff, anti-Graham, anti-JK, anti-Pera, anti-BOT, anti-Leebron crowd.

Some people are just anti-everybody.

I think it likely some of them will be anti-Bloomgren before the end of 2018.

JMHO.

Fire Bloomgren! Zero wins so far! None. Nada. Zilch. Unacceptable.

I guess you are confused, as usual, as to when the end of 2018 happens.

If we are 1-12, or worse, in December, you may have company. It won't be me, but there are those out there saying we should be quick on the trigger.

"Hasn't played any games yet." Such a typical Bloomgren apologist excuse.

Apologist? And here I was worried about being labeled as anti-Bloomgrem.

In any case, despite your jocularity here, it will be interesting to see what the response is IF we have a 1-12 (or so) season with several 50 point losses. I hope it doesn't happen, and if it happens I hope the response is not what I expect. But all the prognosticators have us somewhere between 126th and 129th nationally so the smart money is on Rice not doing well. Of course, sometimes all the smart money is wrong (see 2016 election). That is why we play the games.

For me it will depend on whom the 50 point losses are to... and if we appear to be outmanned AND outschemed.

If we lose by 50 to teams ranked 80+, I'll be concerned.

If we're outmanned by them, I expect to see lots of position changes and freshmen playing.

If we're competitive with top 100, lose to 80+ and get whipped by top 40... I'll be concerned if we AREN'T playing a lot of freshmen and/or new positions.

One could argue that Bloomgren may take a mulligan year to redshirt his freshmen so that years 3 and 4 are his best (of the first round) and there is some merit to that (for him) but I'd still expect to see some innovation/do whatever you can to win when you can which is the sign to me of something we need.

(05-14-2018 01:35 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  For me it will depend on whom the 50 point losses are to... and if we appear to be outmanned AND outschemed.

If we lose by 50 to teams ranked 80+, I'll be concerned.

If we're outmanned by them, I expect to see lots of position changes and freshmen playing.

If we're competitive with top 100, lose to 80+ and get whipped by top 40... I'll be concerned if we AREN'T playing a lot of freshmen and/or new positions.

One could argue that Bloomgren may take a mulligan year to redshirt his freshmen so that years 3 and 4 are his best (of the first round) and there is some merit to that (for him) but I'd still expect to see some innovation/do whatever you can to win when you can which is the sign to me of something we need.

You would be one of the last people I would expect to be quick on the trigger. There are several I do expect a lack of patience from.


Personally, I think 3-4 years is a reasonable trial period. If we are seeing steady progress and/or results, fine. But there were some a few months back arguing that if we don't see results in the first year or two, then we should cut bait. Those are the people who may be anti-Bloomgren if this first season does not go well. I hope this does not get put to the test, that everybody is happy come December.

My expectations next year are almost totally subjective--eyeball tests, if you will. If we look crisp and well-disciplined and well-prepared, then I won't worry too much about the scoreboard. Then again, if we truly scheme well and execute well and do look and act well-disciplined and well-prepared, I think the scoreboards will be prettier than many of us expect.

I think we may be on the short end talent-wise next year. But some of that can be overcome with scheme and preparation, and in the long run I expect an uptick in recruiting to narrow the talent gap. And yes, to respond to an earlier question, I'm pretty sur a beefed-up recruiting budget was part of Bloomgren's package.

Bloomgren has been very clear about his philosophy--pound the rock, run the clock, and play great defense. Having that well-defined a philosophy will IMO be a significant improvement. At least I don't think I'll spend half the time asking myself, "WTF are they trying to do." I'm not sure that will be the best approach for Rice, because I'm not sure how we can recruit linemen to dominate the LOS. Then again, Bloomgren was highly regarded as an o-line coach, so maybe he just knows how to develop them. At any rate, I think we will all be able to figure out what we are trying to do, and I think that is a huge improvement.

One thing that I always found interesting. Bear Bryant was particularly noted for outstanding rebuilding efforts--at Kentucky, at aTm, and at Alabama. I think most guys who take over a downtrodden program put all the emphasis on doing the big things to become competitive again. The whole focus is on closing the gap to the point of being competitive into the fourth quarter. Bryant uniquely seemed to put a lot more emphasis from the beginning on doing the little things that would win those close games once you got good enough to be competitive. He felt that one of the most crushing things for a 20-year-old's spirit was getting good enough--finally--to be able to hang with, say, Texas, but then making a stupid mistake to let them win. He felt that could bring about some sort of "there we go again" defeatist attitude, which he wanted to avoid at all costs.

(05-14-2018 02:35 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 01:35 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  For me it will depend on whom the 50 point losses are to... and if we appear to be outmanned AND outschemed.

If we lose by 50 to teams ranked 80+, I'll be concerned.

If we're outmanned by them, I expect to see lots of position changes and freshmen playing.

If we're competitive with top 100, lose to 80+ and get whipped by top 40... I'll be concerned if we AREN'T playing a lot of freshmen and/or new positions.

One could argue that Bloomgren may take a mulligan year to redshirt his freshmen so that years 3 and 4 are his best (of the first round) and there is some merit to that (for him) but I'd still expect to see some innovation/do whatever you can to win when you can which is the sign to me of something we need.

You would be one of the last people I would expect to be quick on the trigger. There are several I do expect a lack of patience from.


Personally, I think 3-4 years is a reasonable trial period. If we are seeing steady progress and/or results, fine. But there were some a few months back arguing that if we don't see results in the first year or two, then we should cut bait. Those are the people who may be anti-Bloomgren if this first season does not go well. I hope this does not get put to the test, that everybody is happy come December.

as i recall we had less than 50 dress out for the spring game, so we'll definitely be shorthanded next season. bloom said we're ok if the injury situation doesn't whack us. he was pleased at the lack of injuries in the spring. new S & C coach must know what he's doing.

(05-14-2018 07:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My expectations next year are almost totally subjective--eyeball tests, if you will. If we look crisp and well-disciplined and well-prepared, then I won't worry too much about the scoreboard. Then again, if we truly scheme well and execute well and do look and act well-disciplined and well-prepared, I think the scoreboards will be prettier than many of us expect.

I agree, if we look crisp and well-disciplined and well prepared, we probably won't have any 50+ point beatdowns.

OTOH, if we do have several 50+ point beatdowns, we probably didn't look crisp or well-disciplined or well prepared in those games.

Really the question is, how will we react in the latter case? Some of us will be saying wait and see - it's early yet. But I think a few will have seen enough. That's why I said I think there may be some anti-Bloomgrem late in the year.

I guess it is one of those things where we have to play the games.

I'm glad we start with PVAM. A good game and a win there should help us through September. OTOH, a loss there would be devastating.

This is all premature. In a few months we will have our annual predictions thread. It will be interesting what people will predict and why.

(05-15-2018 01:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 07:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My expectations next year are almost totally subjective--eyeball tests, if you will. If we look crisp and well-disciplined and well-prepared, then I won't worry too much about the scoreboard. Then again, if we truly scheme well and execute well and do look and act well-disciplined and well-prepared, I think the scoreboards will be prettier than many of us expect.

I agree, if we look crisp and well-disciplined and well prepared, we probably won't have any 50+ point beatdowns.

OTOH, if we do have several 50+ point beatdowns, we probably didn't look crisp or well-disciplined or well prepared in those games.

Really the question is, how will we react in the latter case? Some of us will be saying wait and see - it's early yet. But I think a few will have seen enough. That's why I said I think there may be some anti-Bloomgrem late in the year.

I guess it is one of those things where we have to play the games.

I'm glad we start with PVAM. A good game and a win there should help us through September. OTOH, a loss there would be devastating.

This is all premature. In a few months we will have our annual predictions thread. It will be interesting what people will predict and why.

Based on the small sample we got in Spring I think we will all be quite pleased with the product that’s on the field this season. We were flat out coached the last three seasons. Bloom seems to have a quality staff with energy. Players feed off of that energy. As far as redshirting guys next season IMO Bloomgren seems to want success right now. Play the best players regardless of eligibility status. Hard to recruit when you sit your best players hoping to be better the next year or so. Wins bring excitement to the program and something to sale to recruits. I’ll go ahead and say it...7-6 but optimistically we go 9-4. As for 50+ blowouts they won’t happen. We have an offense with a plan and the biggest part of that plan is to get first downs not try to capture “lightning in a bottle”. First downs = time of possession.

(05-15-2018 01:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I'm glad we start with PVAM. A good game and a win there should help us through September. OTOH, a loss there would be devastating.

I remember that Fred started with SMU, their first game coming off the death penalty. He said that he thought it was absolutely imperative to win that game because the credibility of his entire program was at stake. I hope this staff has the same view of PVAM. I don't think Bailiff's staff did for Nicholls, and that unfortunately foreshadowed too much of what came later.

(05-15-2018 07:41 AM)RiceOL83 Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 01:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-14-2018 07:27 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  My expectations next year are almost totally subjective--eyeball tests, if you will. If we look crisp and well-disciplined and well-prepared, then I won't worry too much about the scoreboard. Then again, if we truly scheme well and execute well and do look and act well-disciplined and well-prepared, I think the scoreboards will be prettier than many of us expect.

I agree, if we look crisp and well-disciplined and well prepared, we probably won't have any 50+ point beatdowns.

OTOH, if we do have several 50+ point beatdowns, we probably didn't look crisp or well-disciplined or well prepared in those games.

Really the question is, how will we react in the latter case? Some of us will be saying wait and see - it's early yet. But I think a few will have seen enough. That's why I said I think there may be some anti-Bloomgrem late in the year.

I guess it is one of those things where we have to play the games.

I'm glad we start with PVAM. A good game and a win there should help us through September. OTOH, a loss there would be devastating.

This is all premature. In a few months we will have our annual predictions thread. It will be interesting what people will predict and why.

Based on the small sample we got in Spring I think we will all be quite pleased with the product that’s on the field this season. We were flat out coached the last three seasons. Bloom seems to have a quality staff with energy. Players feed off of that energy. As far as redshirting guys next season IMO Bloomgren seems to want success right now. Play the best players regardless of eligibility status. Hard to recruit when you sit your best players hoping to be better the next year or so. Wins bring excitement to the program and something to sale to recruits. I’ll go ahead and say it...7-6 but optimistically we go 9-4. As for 50+ blowouts they won’t happen. We have an offense with a plan and the biggest part of that plan is to get first downs not try to capture “lightning in a bottle”. First downs = time of possession.

I hope you are right - 7-9 wins and no blowouts. If I take that to the betting window in Vegas I better get some pretty good odds.

My worry is that the attitude will crumble if there are a couple of bad losses in September/August. I do think attitude counts for a lot. But a kick in the teeth can bring about an attitude adjustment.

As for whether or not he redshirts people, that I will leave up to him. His program.

I hope for the best but worry about the worst.

(05-15-2018 08:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 01:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I'm glad we start with PVAM. A good game and a win there should help us through September. OTOH, a loss there would be devastating.

I remember that Fred started with SMU, their first game coming off the death penalty. He said that he thought it was absolutely imperative to win that game because the credibility of his entire program was at stake. I hope this staff has the same view of PVAM. I don't think Bailiff's staff did for Nicholls, and that unfortunately foreshadowed too much of what came later.

I was at the SMU game, and was a bit worried when SMU scored first. But we came from behind for the 35-3 win.

I was there for Nichols State, also. hard to say if they took NSU lightly. I know I did. But the horrendus weather could have been a factor. Yes, I know they played in the same weather, but that does not mean it affected them the same. I know I hoped to see a different team come out after the weather break.

PVAM is just like those two games. A game everybody here expects to win. I bet the kids down the road aren't giving up, though.

(05-15-2018 09:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 08:00 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(05-15-2018 01:08 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I'm glad we start with PVAM. A good game and a win there should help us through September. OTOH, a loss there would be devastating.

I remember that Fred started with SMU, their first game coming off the death penalty. He said that he thought it was absolutely imperative to win that game because the credibility of his entire program was at stake. I hope this staff has the same view of PVAM. I don't think Bailiff's staff did for Nicholls, and that unfortunately foreshadowed too much of what came later.

I was at the SMU game, and was a bit worried when SMU scored first. But we came from behind for the 35-3 win.

I was there for Nichols State, also. hard to say if they took NSU lightly. I know I did. But the horrendus weather could have been a factor. Yes, I know they played in the same weather, but that does not mean it affected them the same. I know I hoped to see a different team come out after the weather break.

PVAM is just like those two games. A game everybody here expects to win. I bet the kids down the road aren't giving up, though.

One random fact about the Nicholls State game that I didn't know at the time was that it featured future Ravens corner back Lardarius Webb. He recorded three INTs and returned one for a TD in his first game for Nicholls after transferring from Southern Miss.

Webb later that season went on to play QB for Nicholls and, per his Wikipedia, "is the only player in NCAA Division I history to receive the conference awards of Offensive Player of the Week, Defensive Player of the Week, and Special Teams Player of the Week in a single season."

I think most of you summed up my position as well...

With regard to redshirts, I agree that's up to him. If he has a 7 that's a Senior and an 8 that's a redshirt freshman and he decides that's not enough difference to pull the shirt, I'd agree. If he has a 4 that's a senior and an 8 that's a freshman and we're getting beat by bad teams, THAT is what I meant by 'perhaps good for him'.

I hope his plan is to try and find a way to win 6 games and get to a bowl. The extra practice and 'good feelings' of a bowl, plus the turnaround could be huge going forward. If that means a 50 point blow out or two, then so be it. A others have said though... 'what it takes' to have that sort of turn-around and 50 point blow outs have a very small area of convergence

As I have pointed out before, in light of the massive defections of Rice's talented graduating seniors with remaining eligibility, there is no reason to redshirt anyone. Why spend years preparing someone for a great last season, when that last season will be as part of another team's roster?

(05-15-2018 11:41 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  As I have pointed out before, in light of the massive defections of Rice's talented graduating seniors with remaining eligibility, there is no reason to redshirt anyone. Why spend years preparing someone for a great last season, when that last season will be as part of another team's roster?

As a first step, I would think it important to interview the player and find out his plans. If he is going to be like Thor and cram a four year degree in 2.5 years, play him. If his plans are to take five years to graduate and/or go to grad school at Rice, a redshirt s fine.

I don't know that playing a 260 lineman as a freshman is going to be that helpful, even if he is going to leave as a 300 pound junior. Skill positions would be a better fit for playing now.

I notice lots of these grad transfers have two years left. Somebody should have noticed that they were getting in their hours faster than normal.

(05-15-2018 11:41 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  As I have pointed out before, in light of the massive defections of Rice's talented graduating seniors with remaining eligibility, there is no reason to redshirt anyone. Why spend years preparing someone for a great last season, when that last season will be as part of another team's roster?

I have to think that the defections were caused by our miserable W/L experience the last three years, along with the commensurate lack of interest in the program (and lack of fans in the stands), plus the fact that P5 schools were recruiting them. The administration's lack of assistance with the flooded cars per the hurricane didn't help the attitudes, either.

Also, they for the most part liked Bailiff and may have been miffed that he was let go.

So hopefully if Bloom turns things around there will be incentives for players to stick around for the 5th yr.

(05-15-2018 10:32 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I hope his plan is to try and find a way to win 6 games and get to a bowl. The extra practice and 'good feelings' of a bowl, plus the turnaround could be huge going forward. If that means a 50 point blow out or two, then so be it. A others have said though... 'what it takes' to have that sort of turn-around and 50 point blow outs have a very small area of convergence

Please tell me this is not code for treating nonconference games like the preseason. I thought that attitude left town with the last guy.

Seriously, though, we need to start having an "anyone, anytime, anywhere" mindset in this program if we want to get out of this wilderness.

(05-15-2018 02:12 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  Seriously, though, we need to start having an "anyone, anytime, anywhere" mindset in this program if we want to get out of this wilderness.

Yep, and it starts with UH, Wake Forest and LSU this year.