In today's NBA there would be a bunch of mopeheads that would say (Lakers era) Shaq would get benched because he couldn't get up and down the court or guard a stretch 5.

(05-09-2018 08:20 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:16 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 07:33 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:47 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:32 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  I don't get that sense at all. I get the sense that Gasol believes he is an elite player, which he is.

No he’s not. Lebron, Curry, Durant and James Harden are elite players. Gasol is an aging fringe All Star with an unearned sense of entitlement. He carries himself like he has led the Grizzlies to multiple championships

I guess you and I differ on the definition of elite. I agree that he's not on the level of the players you listed.

I think he's still one of the best centers in the league and in my mind, that means he's elite.

Lowered expectations...

Marc Gasol is one the best centers. But the quality of centers in the NBA isn’t great right now. Therefore Marc looks better than he really is.

You put Marc in the mid-90's and he would be a transcendent center. A 7 footer who can bang but also clean out an 18 footer with regularity and dish.

Don’t know that I’d agree with that.

Plus Hakeem, Smits, Robinson, Ewing and Vlade could hit a jumper. But the game was different then. Gasol would be starter quality in mid-90s but not considered an All-Star.

(05-09-2018 08:20 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:16 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 07:33 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:47 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:32 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  I don't get that sense at all. I get the sense that Gasol believes he is an elite player, which he is.

No he’s not. Lebron, Curry, Durant and James Harden are elite players. Gasol is an aging fringe All Star with an unearned sense of entitlement. He carries himself like he has led the Grizzlies to multiple championships

I guess you and I differ on the definition of elite. I agree that he's not on the level of the players you listed.

I think he's still one of the best centers in the league and in my mind, that means he's elite.

Lowered expectations...

Marc Gasol is one the best centers. But the quality of centers in the NBA isn’t great right now. Therefore Marc looks better than he really is.

You put Marc in the mid-90's and he would be a transcendent center. A 7 footer who can bang but also clean out an 18 footer with regularity and dish.

By the time Arvydas Sabonis hit the league, he was 32 years old and his mobility was gone (but he was still a highly effective center). 6 years prior, he was one of the best players in the word. A huge / domninant center who could shoot, pass, and defend the paint. He was a game changer.

Marc would've been the same.

(05-08-2018 08:47 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:32 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 04:02 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 03:48 PM)tigernole79 Wrote:  Yeah, we should've parted ways with Marc ages ago. I mean look how much better the team got when we got rid of ZBo and TA!!?!

TA and Zbo did nothing with their new teams. They are both washed up

The problem with Gasol is in his mind he is what Lebron is to Cleveland but he isn’t close to being that

I don't get that sense at all. I get the sense that Gasol believes he is an elite player, which he is.

No he’s not. Lebron, Curry, Durant and James Harden are elite players. Gasol is an aging fringe All Star with an unearned sense of entitlement. He carries himself like he has led the Grizzlies to multiple championships

Never understood this irrational Gasol-bashing, but it's out there with a small segment of the Grizz fan base.

Marc is a pro's pro, loves the Grizz, asks not to be traded. Still very productive - 17 ppg, 8 rbg, 4 apg, 17.4 PER. Has adjusted his game to the changing NBA, made over 100 3-pointers for the 2nd season in a row after having never hit more than 3 3-pointers in any prior season.

And if anything, that understates his value, since the offense is run through him, and he calls out defensive adjustments. He works daily with the younger bigs, especially DD and Rabb, which is not always true with star players. For comparison, look at Tom Brady, greatest QB ever, and so insecure he goes to the owner to campaign to get Garoppolo traded.

Link to the Stefan Bundy article that the OP article quoted - http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...-1.3972298 . Bundy is the Knicks beat writer for the Daily News.

Love this:

"The coach went around the locker room asking each player if he believed he could win a championship. If they lacked belief, they didn't belong on the Grizzlies.

The younger players went along. Gasol, however, answered, "No." Then when asked for an explanation, Gasol replied, "We don't have the right leader."

Boom. Right to his face. Didn't snipe his coach anonymously in the press for weeks like Melo or Dwight did.

I liked Fizz, but can't believe how badly he misread that locker room. Pulling this high school rah-rah crap with veteran guys like Marc, Mike, ZBo, TA, Vince, Brandan Wright - just shows how fundamentally Fizdale did not understand the situation he inherited.

(05-09-2018 08:59 AM)Tigx Wrote:  Link to the Stefan Bundy article that the OP article quoted - http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basket...-1.3972298 . Bundy is the Knicks beat writer for the Daily News.

Love this:

"The coach went around the locker room asking each player if he believed he could win a championship. If they lacked belief, they didn't belong on the Grizzlies.

The younger players went along. Gasol, however, answered, "No." Then when asked for an explanation, Gasol replied, "We don't have the right leader."

Boom. Right to his face. Didn't snipe his coach anonymously in the press for weeks like Melo or Dwight did.

I liked Fizz, but can't believe how badly he misread that locker room. Pulling this high school rah-rah crap with veteran guys like Marc, Mike, ZBo, TA, Vince, Brandan Wright - just shows how fundamentally Fizdale did not understand the situation he inherited.

Pretty silly on it's on though. Gasol seemed to be the only one that was honest.

(05-09-2018 08:29 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:20 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:16 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 07:33 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:47 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  No he’s not. Lebron, Curry, Durant and James Harden are elite players. Gasol is an aging fringe All Star with an unearned sense of entitlement. He carries himself like he has led the Grizzlies to multiple championships

I guess you and I differ on the definition of elite. I agree that he's not on the level of the players you listed.

I think he's still one of the best centers in the league and in my mind, that means he's elite.

Lowered expectations...

Marc Gasol is one the best centers. But the quality of centers in the NBA isn’t great right now. Therefore Marc looks better than he really is.

You put Marc in the mid-90's and he would be a transcendent center. A 7 footer who can bang but also clean out an 18 footer with regularity and dish.

Don’t know that I’d agree with that.

Plus Hakeem, Smits, Robinson, Ewing and Vlade could hit a jumper. But the game was different then. Gasol would be starter quality in mid-90s but not considered an All-Star.

Those guys could hit a jumper yeah, but they were no where near the level of passer that Gasol is.

(05-09-2018 08:40 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:20 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:16 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 07:33 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:47 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  No he’s not. Lebron, Curry, Durant and James Harden are elite players. Gasol is an aging fringe All Star with an unearned sense of entitlement. He carries himself like he has led the Grizzlies to multiple championships

I guess you and I differ on the definition of elite. I agree that he's not on the level of the players you listed.

I think he's still one of the best centers in the league and in my mind, that means he's elite.

Lowered expectations...

Marc Gasol is one the best centers. But the quality of centers in the NBA isn’t great right now. Therefore Marc looks better than he really is.

You put Marc in the mid-90's and he would be a transcendent center. A 7 footer who can bang but also clean out an 18 footer with regularity and dish.

By the time Arvydas Sabonis hit the league, he was 32 years old and his mobility was gone (but he was still a highly effective center). 6 years prior, he was one of the best players in the word. A huge / domninant center who could shoot, pass, and defend the paint. He was a game changer.

Marc would've been the same.

Funny how he isn’t really a game changer now (over the last seven years), but a really good piece originally supporting Randolph.

(05-09-2018 01:36 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:40 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:20 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 08:16 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 07:33 AM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  I guess you and I differ on the definition of elite. I agree that he's not on the level of the players you listed.

I think he's still one of the best centers in the league and in my mind, that means he's elite.

Lowered expectations...

Marc Gasol is one the best centers. But the quality of centers in the NBA isn’t great right now. Therefore Marc looks better than he really is.

You put Marc in the mid-90's and he would be a transcendent center. A 7 footer who can bang but also clean out an 18 footer with regularity and dish.

By the time Arvydas Sabonis hit the league, he was 32 years old and his mobility was gone (but he was still a highly effective center). 6 years prior, he was one of the best players in the word. A huge / domninant center who could shoot, pass, and defend the paint. He was a game changer.

Marc would've been the same.

Funny how he isn’t really a game changer now (over the last seven years), but a really good piece originally supporting Randolph.

Sounds like Kobe without his Big.

Oh, and how did Kobe do without a superstar?

Several missed playoffs and early round exits. That's how.

Once Pau got there: three straight NBA finals including two championships.

Once Shaq left, the Lakers, under Kobe went:

34-48
45-37 (lost 4-3 to the Suns in the 1st round after having a 3-1 lead)
42-40 (lost in 1st round to the Suns 4-1)

Pau joined the Lakers on 2/5/07. The Lakers were 30-16.

They then went 15-3. Pau got hurt and the Lakers went 5-5. Pau came back and they went 7-1 to end the season. So that year, with Kobe the Lakers were 35-21. With Pau, they were 22-4.

Pau leaves in 2013.

Lakers with just Kobe again:
27-55 (no playoffs)
21-61 (no playoffs)
17-65 (no playoffs)

So, Kobe, in six full seasons without Shaq or Pau:
186-306
Two playoff appearances, (4-8 in playoffs)

Fizdale is no Brad Stevens. He'll eventually get canned in NY (most coaches do, especially in NY). I agree that Gasol is moody and probably more trouble than he's worth, especially at this point in his career.

Grizzlies need a fresh start and need to hit big in the draft to move forward in a positive direction.

I hope it works out with whoever they draft in June.