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2018-2019 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread
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elw4796 Offline
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Post: #461
RE: 2018-2019 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread
New offer to 2021 Ian Motta. Goes to Allen HS but from Puerto Rico originally. Two other offers. 6-6 forward.
05-27-2020 07:41 PM
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elw4796 Offline
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Post: #462
RE: 2018-2019 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread
2021 wing Damion McDowell, out of Los Angeles, commits. Two division 1 offers - UC San Diego and Montana State. My take after watching a couple highlight videos (real in depth scouting being done): for comparison, his body looks much more college-ready than Trey Murphy's did. I don't think I saw any perimeter shots, which likely means he's still working on that aspect of his game. I didn't see high major athleticism or handles (again, not a huge deal considering he's a 2021), which is probably why his recruiting hasn't blown up. But he has the body and playing style of somebody who could've seen an uptick in his final HS year.

We have two remaining spots left in 2021. The question that's going to be asked for any future recruiting is whether Pera and his staff will be here in 2021 (this applies to the guys who transfer and sit out also).
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2020 01:28 PM by elw4796.)
05-28-2020 01:14 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #463
RE: 2018-2019 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread
(05-28-2020 01:14 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  2021 wing Damion McDowell, out of Los Angeles, commits. Two division 1 offers - UC San Diego and Montana State.

UCSD isn’t D1... Until July :)!!!
05-28-2020 01:20 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #464
RE: 2018-2019 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread
I hate to say this, because I consider Bobby Tudor a friend, as I do Chris Del Conte, and I think they did the best they could to turn Autry into something better with Tudor. And the improvement is vast. But Tudor is still a dump. A lot of our recruits probably played in better HS gyms than Tudor.

Autry was from the era when TexasU played in Gregory, Arkansas played in Barnhill, aTm played in G Rollie White, Baylor played in Heart of Texas, and TT played in Lubbock Municipal Coliseum. I've been in every one of them, and every one was a dump. Dressing Autry up as Tudor was basically putting lipstick on a pig.

I think recruits come here, they play in a dump with nobody there, they are shunned on campus and treated as second-class citizens, and frankly they decide to GTFO. I don't blame them for not wanting to stay in a place where they feel unwanted and unappreciated.

What to do? Short of turning the clock back and having T Boone Pickens go to Rice, I don't know. I think we need a truly modern basketball facility that seats maybe 7500. Berry Center would be a good model. Do it with a conference center and theater and connect it to HRS like Cy-Fair did with Berry. That whole complex, including the adjacent football stadium, cost $80 million in 2001, probably 2-3 times that today. But I think that's what we need. Just don't know how to get it.
(This post was last modified: 05-28-2020 05:51 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
05-28-2020 05:50 PM
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elw4796 Offline
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Post: #465
RE: 2018-2019 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread
(05-28-2020 05:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I hate to say this, because I consider Bobby Tudor a friend, as I do Chris Del Conte, and I think they did the best they could to turn Autry into something better with Tudor. And the improvement is vast. But Tudor is still a dump. A lot of our recruits probably played in better HS gyms than Tudor.

Autry was from the era when TexasU played in Gregory, Arkansas played in Barnhill, aTm played in G Rollie White, Baylor played in Heart of Texas, and TT played in Lubbock Municipal Coliseum. I've been in every one of them, and every one was a dump. Dressing Autry up as Tudor was basically putting lipstick on a pig.

I think recruits come here, they play in a dump with nobody there, they are shunned on campus and treated as second-class citizens, and frankly they decide to GTFO. I don't blame them for not wanting to stay in a place where they feel unwanted and unappreciated.

What to do? Short of turning the clock back and having T Boone Pickens go to Rice, I don't know. I think we need a truly modern basketball facility that seats maybe 7500. Berry Center would be a good model. Do it with a conference center and theater and connect it to HRS like Cy-Fair did with Berry. That whole complex, including the adjacent football stadium, cost $80 million in 2001, probably 2-3 times that today. But I think that's what we need. Just don't know how to get it.

I kind of disagree, though not entirely. Tudor is by no means a super college arena, but it's substantially better than a lot of teams that play at our level. Harvard and Yale, for example, do play in glorified HS gyms. But I do agree that pairing the facilities with the fan support and general campus attitude exacerbates everything.

Can we possibly justify building a new basketball facility with so little fan support? We can't fill up what few seats we already have. My personal opinion is that athletics are just incompatible with the current student body, and Rice doesn't yet have the academic (and general) reputation that some of the northeast and east coast comparable institutions do. In my four (recent) years, I saw so little enthusiasm for non-club sports. And that was true even among those who liked professional basketball or football. I don't know what the fix is apart from rising in the stupid rankings and making people believe that a Rice degree is comparable to a Penn/Brown/Cornell/Dartmouth degree, or by lucking into a few consecutive winning seasons and a newfound culture that attracts and retains talent. [just to clarify, this point about academic rankings was in relation to getting better talent on campus which would then hypothetically lead to more fans]

I posted something a few months ago about Rice's transfer rate in MBB versus peer academic schools, and no school came even remotely close to us. And that includes plenty of universities that play in <4000 capacity arenas. In the last 9 years, we lose an average of 3.33 players per year. Columbia is second on the list with 1.67 players per year. Colgate has lost 2 players in 9 years and they play in a *1,750* capacity AC. Yale's lost 5 and plays in a 2,500 capacity facility. I know your point wasn't exclusively about facilities, but IMO there are some bigger issues that need to be sorted first.

*Disclaimer: I would gladly accept a bigger basketball arena

**We also just offered 2021 forward Ileri Ayo-Faleye, who's 6-7 and hails from Pennsylvania (via Putnam Sciences). Offers from Brown, Yale, Bucknell, and others
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2020 11:11 AM by elw4796.)
05-28-2020 11:57 PM
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illiniowl Offline
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Post: #466
RE: 2018-2019 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread
(05-28-2020 11:57 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  
(05-28-2020 05:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think we need a truly modern basketball facility that seats maybe 7500.

My personal opinion is that athletics are just incompatible with the current student body, and Rice doesn't yet have the academic (and general) reputation that some of the northeast and east coast comparable institutions do. In my four (recent) years, I saw so little enthusiasm for non-club sports. And that was true even among those who liked professional basketball or football. I don't know what the fix is apart from rising in the stupid rankings and making people believe that a Rice degree is comparable to a Penn/Brown/Cornell/Dartmouth degree, or by lucking into a few consecutive winning seasons and a newfound culture that attracts and retains talent.

It's not the gym, and it's not that the students are anti-sports. It's not even about the losing. It's that no one who goes or went to Rice is ever going to give two ***** about Rice vs. Western Kentucky, Rice vs. Middle Tennessee, Rice vs. North Texas, and on and on and on. The vast majority of games on this campus have no meaning or value for us. There *are* sports fans here; you *do* see people come out for Texas (VB), A&M (WBB), Baylor (FB), UH (MBB), etc. Competing against the biggest and best fits what Rice is about. What we're doing doesn't fit, at all. That's why there's apathy, and that's why there's losing.

There is no winning our way out of this dilemma because you have to care about games in the first place in order to win them (consistently). As for facilities, we could build the Taj Mahal of on-campus arenas here but if what goes on inside has no meaning to Rice folks, it'd just end up being a beautiful mausoleum like the real one. And I don't see what Rice being ranked in the top 10 (although we should definitely strive for that) would do to make Rice vs. [insert CUSA team here] any more meaningful to us. It wouldn't get us invited to the Ivy League as they will never expand.

We would have greater interest and attendance if we were associated with and played P5 schools again, or if we dropped to D-III and played UChicago, WashU, Emory, etc. Those are the only two ways to go, but neither Leebron nor the BOT have the vision to take us in either direction. So here we stay.
05-29-2020 10:56 AM
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texowl2 Offline
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Post: #467
RE: 2018-2019 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread
(05-29-2020 10:56 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(05-28-2020 11:57 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  
(05-28-2020 05:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think we need a truly modern basketball facility that seats maybe 7500.

My personal opinion is that athletics are just incompatible with the current student body, and Rice doesn't yet have the academic (and general) reputation that some of the northeast and east coast comparable institutions do. In my four (recent) years, I saw so little enthusiasm for non-club sports. And that was true even among those who liked professional basketball or football. I don't know what the fix is apart from rising in the stupid rankings and making people believe that a Rice degree is comparable to a Penn/Brown/Cornell/Dartmouth degree, or by lucking into a few consecutive winning seasons and a newfound culture that attracts and retains talent.

It's not the gym, and it's not that the students are anti-sports. It's not even about the losing. It's that no one who goes or went to Rice is ever going to give two ***** about Rice vs. Western Kentucky, Rice vs. Middle Tennessee, Rice vs. North Texas, and on and on and on. The vast majority of games on this campus have no meaning or value for us. There *are* sports fans here; you *do* see people come out for Texas (VB), A&M (WBB), Baylor (FB), UH (MBB), etc. Competing against the biggest and best fits what Rice is about. What we're doing doesn't fit, at all. That's why there's apathy, and that's why there's losing.

There is no winning our way out of this dilemma because you have to care about games in the first place in order to win them (consistently). As for facilities, we could build the Taj Mahal of on-campus arenas here but if what goes on inside has no meaning to Rice folks, it'd just end up being a beautiful mausoleum like the real one. And I don't see what Rice being ranked in the top 10 (although we should definitely strive for that) would do to make Rice vs. [insert CUSA team here] any more meaningful to us. It wouldn't get us invited to the Ivy League as they will never expand.

We would have greater interest and attendance if we were associated with and played P5 schools again, or if we dropped to D-III and played UChicago, WashU, Emory, etc. Those are the only two ways to go, but neither Leebron nor the BOT have the vision to take us in either direction. So here we stay.

sadly-right on the button. I just don't see any path other the drip drip of water onto a square of iron, which if you check on it daily, it doesn't seem worse, but after a while. Remember hope and prayer is not a strategy-Lack of effort or commitment results in an output equal to what you put into it.

With the possible exception of Reckling (how much of that was paid by OPM), the history of Rice athletics has been to ignore clear messages and be a dollar short and an hour late. Owl6970 explains it best. How many years has it been since CUSA 2.0 collapsed into CUSA 3.0? It has now been 25 years since the SWC-has anything improved? For TCU-yes, UH/SMUT-treading water at best. Rice?-some truly glorious BB years and competitiveness in non-revenue sports, but will that miracle ever happen or will Leebron being calling Trinity and Southwestern to beg for admittance into their conference?

Autry is fine as is for our situation.
05-29-2020 11:38 AM
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cr11owl Offline
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Post: #468
RE: 2018-2019 Men's Basketball Recruiting Thread
(05-29-2020 11:38 AM)texowl2 Wrote:  
(05-29-2020 10:56 AM)illiniowl Wrote:  
(05-28-2020 11:57 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  
(05-28-2020 05:50 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think we need a truly modern basketball facility that seats maybe 7500.

My personal opinion is that athletics are just incompatible with the current student body, and Rice doesn't yet have the academic (and general) reputation that some of the northeast and east coast comparable institutions do. In my four (recent) years, I saw so little enthusiasm for non-club sports. And that was true even among those who liked professional basketball or football. I don't know what the fix is apart from rising in the stupid rankings and making people believe that a Rice degree is comparable to a Penn/Brown/Cornell/Dartmouth degree, or by lucking into a few consecutive winning seasons and a newfound culture that attracts and retains talent.

It's not the gym, and it's not that the students are anti-sports. It's not even about the losing. It's that no one who goes or went to Rice is ever going to give two ***** about Rice vs. Western Kentucky, Rice vs. Middle Tennessee, Rice vs. North Texas, and on and on and on. The vast majority of games on this campus have no meaning or value for us. There *are* sports fans here; you *do* see people come out for Texas (VB), A&M (WBB), Baylor (FB), UH (MBB), etc. Competing against the biggest and best fits what Rice is about. What we're doing doesn't fit, at all. That's why there's apathy, and that's why there's losing.

There is no winning our way out of this dilemma because you have to care about games in the first place in order to win them (consistently). As for facilities, we could build the Taj Mahal of on-campus arenas here but if what goes on inside has no meaning to Rice folks, it'd just end up being a beautiful mausoleum like the real one. And I don't see what Rice being ranked in the top 10 (although we should definitely strive for that) would do to make Rice vs. [insert CUSA team here] any more meaningful to us. It wouldn't get us invited to the Ivy League as they will never expand.

We would have greater interest and attendance if we were associated with and played P5 schools again, or if we dropped to D-III and played UChicago, WashU, Emory, etc. Those are the only two ways to go, but neither Leebron nor the BOT have the vision to take us in either direction. So here we stay.

sadly-right on the button. I just don't see any path other the drip drip of water onto a square of iron, which if you check on it daily, it doesn't seem worse, but after a while. Remember hope and prayer is not a strategy-Lack of effort or commitment results in an output equal to what you put into it.

With the possible exception of Reckling (how much of that was paid by OPM), the history of Rice athletics has been to ignore clear messages and be a dollar short and an hour late. Owl6970 explains it best. How many years has it been since CUSA 2.0 collapsed into CUSA 3.0? It has now been 25 years since the SWC-has anything improved? For TCU-yes, UH/SMUT-treading water at best. Rice?-some truly glorious BB years and competitiveness in non-revenue sports, but will that miracle ever happen or will Leebron being calling Trinity and Southwestern to beg for admittance into their conference?

Autry is fine as is for our situation.

Sadly UH and SMU are in a much much better position than us. They’ve had more exposure from athletics than we could hope for the last several years. The only thing that comes even close for us in the National championship in baseball but even that doesn’t compare to the run UH had in football with Herman.
05-29-2020 12:16 PM
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