How Wallace is still employed is beyond me. He’s riding Z-Bo and TA to a lifetime contract, I guess.

(05-01-2018 03:33 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  How Wallace is still employed is beyond me. He’s riding Z-Bo and TA to a lifetime contract, I guess.

Status Quo should be the new Grizzlies motto instead of Grit n' Grind.
Status Quo means:
-Wallace stays on in all his mediocrity
-Bickerstaff hired without interviewing anyone else
-Trading Gasol is not even in the discussion no matter what is being offered
-Pera maintains his very distant relationship as the Grizzlies owner

I am still confused as to who is actually in charge at the Front Office. Is it Pera, Wallace, who knows?

(05-01-2018 10:39 AM)UofMark Wrote:  So this is the possible 'last' year Of Gasol's contract. Next season (19-20) he has a player option for $25 million. If he's having a great year this year I wonder if he'll opt out and try free agency.

It would be better to trade him for something than to let him walk, but who knows. The grizz will probably give him 3 years 65 million or some bs like that. He is "buds" with the owner, right?

I would doubt marc bails unless the team gets real bad, and then marc will run away. I don't believe he gives a $25 million per year value to any team, but if someone wants him and offers him a big contract to leave, then more power to marc gasol.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's my two cents. I've been saying it for 2 years especially about trading gasol. I'm very vocal about it. He is overrated.

Grizz aren't doing squat until the current big 3 contract problem is solved. Bottom line. You got 2 older guys that are borderline all stars at best. Both play too average way too often counting on big games from their supporting cast. One of them stays hurt all the time, and the other has been known to have foot issues and is an older big (not a good combo). Then you have the team anchor known as chandler parsons who should be embarrassed to even be seen around memphis. His contract is killing the team big time, and all his best game is with the ladies these days. Nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't help the grizz out much.

Anyways, the supporting cast is not the problem. Grizz will be borderline playoff team at best next year and beaten in the first round. Imo, one of the worse things a nba front office can do in the nba is to be satisfied being mediocre. They need to make big changes, roll the dice and don't be afraid to change it up.

The front office is not gonna do that though, and this team is boring as it is right now.

For the record, i quit watching college basketball after the 2014 season. I haven't seen any of the possible draft picks play yet. Every year i did watch though, the grizz never ever picked my guys except two they did pick/acquire through trade and then gave up on them too soon. I did an excellent job with my draft choices minus the kevin love/oj mayo trade which i did support, but it was an obvious mistake. I don't have any advice for them this year. I'm just waiting to see where and who they pick. Going with draft history of the franchise, odds are they will f it up.

(05-01-2018 02:43 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 12:01 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 11:05 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 10:38 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  In all reality, Conley has the worst contract.

It is exorbitantly high and for what a team could do with that money instead of that one spot just for Mike is depressing.

Naw as long as he plays at the level he’s been playing at he is worth the money

Agree with Dynamos. Conley was #23 on ESPN's NBA player rankings prior to this season. And #18 on SI's list last September.

Conley's contract is what top veteran players get paid now. It's the NBA - young guys on rookie and 1st post-rookie contracts are underpaid. They catch up on the 2nd post-rookie contract.

Conley is the 7th highest paid player in the NBA and will be the 6th highest next year.

In NO way, shape, or form does he perform to the level of being a top 5-10 player. Hell, he's arguably not a top 7 point guard.

He doesn't impact the game worthy of the money he makes--especially in light of the Grizz' financial situation and inability to push beyond the luxury tax.

I agree completely. That was a ridiculous contract for what he brings to the table. The idea was that Conley and Gasol together was an auto playoff team, but we know that isn't the case in the west. Conley is grossly overpaid. 20 mil a year would be fine, 30 mil a year is ridiculous.

How soon the Conley skeptics forget. This was one of many articles from just one year ago: https://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/mi...e-4-042317

"How good has Conley been in this series? Good enough to convince noted Spurs fan Skip Bayless he's the most underrated player in the NBA — and good enough to prove he's been worth his $153-million deal."
. . .
"First, he's one of the most clutch players in the NBA, even if he doesn't have the rings to show for it.

That's not an exaggeration, as the data . . . backs it up. According to a study from ESPN, Memphis is far and away the most successful team in the clutch over the past six seasons. The Grizzlies win nearly 70 percent of games that are within three points in the final minute — better than the second-place Spurs, in a nice bit of serendipity."

Again, 2nd post-rookie contract are always the big ones.

Several guys already have signed $40M+ per contracts (Steph, Russ, Wall, Blake is close) and more are soon to follow.

And Conley has an injury offset in year 5, only $22M guaranteed.

Again, I'm not arguing what the market dictates. But, I also think he doesn't provide the impact of a total max player.

Moreover, (again with the Pujols analogy) sometimes you can do better with several people at a price point than just one.

(05-02-2018 08:51 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Again, I'm not arguing what the market dictates. But, I also think he doesn't provide the impact of a total max player.

Moreover, (again with the Pujols analogy) sometimes you can do better with several people at a price point than just one.

No doubt there are more max contracts than max players.

At least Mike is a great player. Look at all the $16M+ per year players who signed 4 year contracts in '16 who aren't any good - Mozgov, Noah, Mahinmi, Biyombo, Evan Turner. Luol Deng . . .

(05-01-2018 02:55 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 02:43 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 12:01 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 11:05 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 10:38 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  In all reality, Conley has the worst contract.

It is exorbitantly high and for what a team could do with that money instead of that one spot just for Mike is depressing.

Naw as long as he plays at the level he’s been playing at he is worth the money

Agree with Dynamos. Conley was #23 on ESPN's NBA player rankings prior to this season. And #18 on SI's list last September.

Conley's contract is what top veteran players get paid now. It's the NBA - young guys on rookie and 1st post-rookie contracts are underpaid. They catch up on the 2nd post-rookie contract.

Conley is the 7th highest paid player in the NBA and will be the 6th highest next year.

He doesn't impact the game worthy of the money he makes--especially in light of the Grizz' financial situation and inability to push beyond the luxury tax.

Typical Saluki research. Conley absolutely won't be the 6th highest paid player next year. Saluki, there is this thing call free agency happening in July. Many players will sign big contracts.

As everyone but apparently Saluki knows, Mike's timing was great. Hit free agency in the summer of '16, after the huge TV money hit and led to the one-time huge increase in the salary cap.

Kawhi is up for a $220M supermax extension this summer, which makes Mike's contract look not so big. John Wall signed his super max - will be making $40M per season after his current contract ends. PG, Lebron, KD, CP3, Boogie, . . . all are FAs this summer.

Honestly you both are right...

Conley does not perform to the level he is being paid...I don't think there is much question about that.

But for Memphis we must pay more than market to keep guys so it is not a terrible contract in our case.

Traditionally it is difficult to attract high performing Free Agents to Memphis and the only way to get top level players is through the draft and retaining them or via identifying undervalued free agents and outbidding for their services. Some times when you try to outbid you miss and end up with a terrible contract as we all know.

(05-01-2018 02:43 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 12:01 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 11:05 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 10:38 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  In all reality, Conley has the worst contract.

It is exorbitantly high and for what a team could do with that money instead of that one spot just for Mike is depressing.

Naw as long as he plays at the level he’s been playing at he is worth the money

Agree with Dynamos. Conley was #23 on ESPN's NBA player rankings prior to this season. And #18 on SI's list last September.

Conley's contract is what top veteran players get paid now. It's the NBA - young guys on rookie and 1st post-rookie contracts are underpaid. They catch up on the 2nd post-rookie contract.

Conley is the 7th highest paid player in the NBA and will be the 6th highest next year.

In NO way, shape, or form does he perform to the level of being a top 5-10 player. Hell, he's arguably not a top 7 point guard.

He doesn't impact the game worthy of the money he makes--especially in light of the Grizz' financial situation and inability to push beyond the luxury tax.

Grizzlies had two choices.

1 Sign Mike to the contract he has now.

2- Mike leave to take a $96 million contract with another team }(there would have been 10 teams vying for his services.

Who would have taken Mike's place?

True, Ned.

One more thing. It was a spend it or lose it situation for the Grizz. Grizz could go over the cap to re-sign their own player, but could not have done so for a free agent.

(05-04-2018 08:59 AM)Tigx Wrote:  True, Ned.

One more thing. It was a spend it or lose it situation for the Grizz. Grizz could go over the cap to re-sign their own player, but could not have done so for a free agent.

except because every team thought like that for 1-2 years now there are going to be extremely deep discounts on free agents AND you would have been in the position to take contracts and picks from teams.

There was a big opportunity cost with that deal.

(05-04-2018 09:02 AM)jgardne Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 08:59 AM)Tigx Wrote:  True, Ned.

One more thing. It was a spend it or lose it situation for the Grizz. Grizz could go over the cap to re-sign their own player, but could not have done so for a free agent.

except because every team thought like that for 1-2 years now there are going to be extremely deep discounts on free agents AND you would have been in the position to take contracts and picks from teams.

There was a big opportunity cost with that deal.

Perhaps, but that's really 'hindsight is 20-20' thinking. All but 2 or 3 teams spent the money. 76ers didn't, but they were losing on purpose.

Most thought the Mike contract was not bad in '16, and if he plays well next year all is good. We all wish the out years were not so high. Lots of people thought the Noah, Mosgov, Biyombo . . . contracts were bad.

Problem with the overspending in '16 is that NBA teams thought the cap and tax line would increase much more in '17 than it did. Same this summer.

(05-01-2018 10:22 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 10:18 AM)mairving Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 09:53 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Thought this was a helpful breakdown for those interested in our cap situation.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2018/04/2018...zlies.html

Still an injury away from a lottery team next year. If only we could do something about the two boat anchors; Parsons and McLemore. Parsons at least has potential although we haven't seen it in 2 years. Both were terrible signings by Wallace.

McLemores contract isn’t so bad. The Parsons signing might be the worst in Nba history though. Should have been enough to get Wallace fired

Nothing compares with Alan Houston's

(05-04-2018 09:02 AM)jgardne Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 08:59 AM)Tigx Wrote:  True, Ned.

One more thing. It was a spend it or lose it situation for the Grizz. Grizz could go over the cap to re-sign their own player, but could not have done so for a free agent.

except because every team thought like that for 1-2 years now there are going to be extremely deep discounts on free agents AND you would have been in the position to take contracts and picks from teams.

There was a big opportunity cost with that deal.

What point guard did the Grizzlies miss out on?

(05-03-2018 09:05 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 02:43 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 12:01 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 11:05 AM)Dynamos Wrote:  

(05-01-2018 10:38 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  In all reality, Conley has the worst contract.

It is exorbitantly high and for what a team could do with that money instead of that one spot just for Mike is depressing.

Naw as long as he plays at the level he’s been playing at he is worth the money

Agree with Dynamos. Conley was #23 on ESPN's NBA player rankings prior to this season. And #18 on SI's list last September.

Conley's contract is what top veteran players get paid now. It's the NBA - young guys on rookie and 1st post-rookie contracts are underpaid. They catch up on the 2nd post-rookie contract.

Conley is the 7th highest paid player in the NBA and will be the 6th highest next year.

In NO way, shape, or form does he perform to the level of being a top 5-10 player. Hell, he's arguably not a top 7 point guard.

He doesn't impact the game worthy of the money he makes--especially in light of the Grizz' financial situation and inability to push beyond the luxury tax.

Grizzlies had two choices.

1 Sign Mike to the contract he has now.

2- Mike leave to take a $96 million contract with another team }(there would have been 10 teams vying for his services.

Who would have taken Mike's place?

Try for Bradley Beal as a RFA. Jeremy Lin as a backup plan.

If you land Beal, you are younger, more explosive, and about $8mm a year cheaper.

If you fall back on a Lin-type then you have a vet at the point for a low price point, you can afford to get a competent backup (NOT Andrew Harrison) and still have $10-12 million of what would have been Mike's salary to get another piece.

Then, instead of wasting $$ on Parsons, you go out and offer a combination of Pau, Marvin Williams, Evan Fournier, Ryan Anderson, or guys like that.

Basically the Grizz had $48 million dollars to play with in the Summer of 2016. They essentially locked in about 50% of their yearly cap space with just Conley and Parsons.

Those guys have combined to play 151 games in two season and have banked $100 million in those same two years.

(05-04-2018 11:17 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 09:02 AM)jgardne Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 08:59 AM)Tigx Wrote:  True, Ned.

One more thing. It was a spend it or lose it situation for the Grizz. Grizz could go over the cap to re-sign their own player, but could not have done so for a free agent.

except because every team thought like that for 1-2 years now there are going to be extremely deep discounts on free agents AND you would have been in the position to take contracts and picks from teams.

There was a big opportunity cost with that deal.

What point guard did the Grizzlies miss out on?

Again, for what Conley provides, a lot of vets can do what he does on a game by game basis.

He's not a CP3 or Russ who can go out and "take over" a game. He scores his points in the flow of a game. He's not a deadly outside shooter, he doesn't provide a mismatch on offense, and he isn't some assist machine.

He's a steady player (when he plays) who runs an offense well.


It's like the Pujols analogy.

Stl didn't just go out and get a cheaper Pujols, they realized that the pool of money would allow them to get a suitable replacement at 1st and then also allow them to use the leftover money to upgrade weaker spots on the team.

After the summer of 16, Memphis still had no backup PG, no knockdown shooter, no real scoring SG, no backup center.

(05-04-2018 11:45 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 11:17 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 09:02 AM)jgardne Wrote:  

(05-04-2018 08:59 AM)Tigx Wrote:  True, Ned.

One more thing. It was a spend it or lose it situation for the Grizz. Grizz could go over the cap to re-sign their own player, but could not have done so for a free agent.

except because every team thought like that for 1-2 years now there are going to be extremely deep discounts on free agents AND you would have been in the position to take contracts and picks from teams.

There was a big opportunity cost with that deal.

What point guard did the Grizzlies miss out on?

Again, for what Conley provides, a lot of vets can do what he does on a game by game basis.

He's not a CP3 or Russ who can go out and "take over" a game. He scores his points in the flow of a game. He's not a deadly outside shooter, he doesn't provide a mismatch on offense, and he isn't some assist machine.

He's a steady player (when he plays) who runs an offense well.


It's like the Pujols analogy.

Stl didn't just go out and get a cheaper Pujols, they realized that the pool of money would allow them to get a suitable replacement at 1st and then also allow them to use the leftover money to upgrade weaker spots on the team.

After the summer of 16, Memphis still had no backup PG, no knockdown shooter, no real scoring SG, no backup center.

you are comparing baseball to basketball?

3 good basketball players does not equal 1 great basketball player---ever.

The revisionist history continues.

Bradley Beal? Come on. He agreed to his max deal with the Wizards on July 1st, 2016, the 1st day of Free Agency. Grizz and no other team had any chance to sign Beal, because the NBA CBA gives huge advantages to teams that want to re-sign their own Free Agents. The other 29 teams could only offer a 4-year contract with around 4.5% raises. Wizards gave a fully guaranteed 5-year deal with around 7% annual raises.

Ryan Anderson? Jesus Christ. Houston will give him to anyone that wants him. 4 years and $80M, and he's not even starting in the playoffs. Averaged 9 points per game this season. $20M man with a 12 PER.

Pau turns 38 in July, averaged 10 points last year, and is guaranteed $16M for each of the next 2 seasons. Who wants that? Not me.

Get it that most Grizz fans want to move on from Chris Wallace.

But thinking we could get Beal, and wanting Ryan Anderson and Pau with those contracts is just silly.

(05-04-2018 11:58 AM)Tigx Wrote:  The revisionist history continues.

Bradley Beal? Come on. He agreed to his max deal with the Wizards on July 1st, 2016, the 1st day of Free Agency. Grizz and no other team had any chance to sign Beal, because the NBA CBA gives huge advantages to teams that want to re-sign their own Free Agents. The other 29 teams could only offer a 4-year contract with around 4.5% raises. Wizards gave a fully guaranteed 5-year deal with around 7% annual raises.

Ryan Anderson? Jesus Christ. Houston will give him to anyone that wants him. 4 years and $80M, and he's not even starting in the playoffs. Averaged 9 points per game this season. $20M man with a 12 PER.

Pau turns 38 in July, averaged 10 points last year, and is guaranteed $16M for each of the next 2 seasons. Who wants that? Not me.

Get it that most Grizz fans want to move on from Chris Wallace.

But thinking we could get Beal, and wanting Ryan Anderson and Pau with those contracts is just silly.

Beal was an RFA and the Wizards had already matched Otto Porter's RFA and were on the hook for John Wall.

At least throwing out an offer sheet would have made the Wizards think. They likely would have matched it, BUT...given an out might have been what they wanted.

The Grizz had $48 million-plus to blow in 2016.

When the dust settled, they finished with a massive overpayed (salary vs. impact) PG, had an aging SG who couldn't score, had no reliable backup SG, signed a SF, coming off a season ending injury to a massive contract, had no reliable backup SF, had a talented, yet aging PF on the last year of his contract and question marks as backups with no real PF-in waiting, and a top tier center with no reliable backup.

Then drafted Wade Baldwin and traded their 2019 1st round pick for the rights to Deyonta Davis and Rade.