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Trade the pick
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Tigx Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Trade the pick
(06-04-2018 10:26 AM)mrwigglesby2121 Wrote:  Stay at 4 and pick up the best player available. Do not pick another Thabeet; everyone and their blind grandma knew that was a mistake. And we need top 3 pick next year too, only this time draft Curry, Harden, Derozan, same as this year.

If we do any trades, we should be calling the Celtics. They cannot make all the talent there happy. I would take Brown, Smart, Rozier or Irving for the 4th pick.

Celts a likely trade partner, Grizz have traded a lot with the Celtics and Wallace knows Danny Ainge well.

But the Celtics would never trade Kyrie for the 4th pick, Smart is an RFA so he can't be traded, Celts have already said they are not trading core guys like Jaylen Brown.

So that leaves Rozier. A backup PG probably isn't what the Grizz FO is looking for in a trade.

But Celts have wings and PGs, and would love one of the top bigs, probably a rim protector like JJJ or Bamba. And they have 4 potential 1st round picks in next year's draft. So a lot of assets to offer. Still, hard to see a trade that works. Gasol makes some sense for the Celtics, but probably more at the trading deadline next February if the Grizz are out of contention.
06-04-2018 10:50 AM
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Tigerfan935 Offline
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Post: #142
RE: Trade the pick
(06-04-2018 10:50 AM)Tigx Wrote:  
(06-04-2018 10:26 AM)mrwigglesby2121 Wrote:  Stay at 4 and pick up the best player available. Do not pick another Thabeet; everyone and their blind grandma knew that was a mistake. And we need top 3 pick next year too, only this time draft Curry, Harden, Derozan, same as this year.

If we do any trades, we should be calling the Celtics. They cannot make all the talent there happy. I would take Brown, Smart, Rozier or Irving for the 4th pick.

Celts a likely trade partner, Grizz have traded a lot with the Celtics and Wallace knows Danny Ainge well.

But the Celtics would never trade Kyrie for the 4th pick, Smart is an RFA so he can't be traded, Celts have already said they are not trading core guys like Jaylen Brown.

So that leaves Rozier. A backup PG probably isn't what the Grizz FO is looking for in a trade.

But Celts have wings and PGs, and would love one of the top bigs, probably a rim protector like JJJ or Bamba. And they have 4 potential 1st round picks in next year's draft. So a lot of assets to offer. Still, hard to see a trade that works. Gasol makes some sense for the Celtics, but probably more at the trading deadline next February if the Grizz are out of contention.
I think if we learned anything from these playoffs, is that Terry Rozier is no back up point guard. That's his role for now in Boston. But Scary Terry is a starter. And a damn good one.
06-05-2018 02:14 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #143
RE: Trade the pick
(06-05-2018 02:14 PM)Tigerfan935 Wrote:  
(06-04-2018 10:50 AM)Tigx Wrote:  
(06-04-2018 10:26 AM)mrwigglesby2121 Wrote:  Stay at 4 and pick up the best player available. Do not pick another Thabeet; everyone and their blind grandma knew that was a mistake. And we need top 3 pick next year too, only this time draft Curry, Harden, Derozan, same as this year.

If we do any trades, we should be calling the Celtics. They cannot make all the talent there happy. I would take Brown, Smart, Rozier or Irving for the 4th pick.

Celts a likely trade partner, Grizz have traded a lot with the Celtics and Wallace knows Danny Ainge well.

But the Celtics would never trade Kyrie for the 4th pick, Smart is an RFA so he can't be traded, Celts have already said they are not trading core guys like Jaylen Brown.

So that leaves Rozier. A backup PG probably isn't what the Grizz FO is looking for in a trade.

But Celts have wings and PGs, and would love one of the top bigs, probably a rim protector like JJJ or Bamba. And they have 4 potential 1st round picks in next year's draft. So a lot of assets to offer. Still, hard to see a trade that works. Gasol makes some sense for the Celtics, but probably more at the trading deadline next February if the Grizz are out of contention.
I think if we learned anything from these playoffs, is that Terry Rozier is no back up point guard. That's his role for now in Boston. But Scary Terry is a starter. And a damn good one.

Or is it Scott Mitchell syndrome. Great in a small sample when asked to hold it together.
06-05-2018 02:20 PM
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NigelTufnel Offline
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Post: #144
RE: Trade the pick
(06-05-2018 02:20 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(06-05-2018 02:14 PM)Tigerfan935 Wrote:  
(06-04-2018 10:50 AM)Tigx Wrote:  
(06-04-2018 10:26 AM)mrwigglesby2121 Wrote:  Stay at 4 and pick up the best player available. Do not pick another Thabeet; everyone and their blind grandma knew that was a mistake. And we need top 3 pick next year too, only this time draft Curry, Harden, Derozan, same as this year.

If we do any trades, we should be calling the Celtics. They cannot make all the talent there happy. I would take Brown, Smart, Rozier or Irving for the 4th pick.

Celts a likely trade partner, Grizz have traded a lot with the Celtics and Wallace knows Danny Ainge well.

But the Celtics would never trade Kyrie for the 4th pick, Smart is an RFA so he can't be traded, Celts have already said they are not trading core guys like Jaylen Brown.

So that leaves Rozier. A backup PG probably isn't what the Grizz FO is looking for in a trade.

But Celts have wings and PGs, and would love one of the top bigs, probably a rim protector like JJJ or Bamba. And they have 4 potential 1st round picks in next year's draft. So a lot of assets to offer. Still, hard to see a trade that works. Gasol makes some sense for the Celtics, but probably more at the trading deadline next February if the Grizz are out of contention.
I think if we learned anything from these playoffs, is that Terry Rozier is no back up point guard. That's his role for now in Boston. But Scary Terry is a starter. And a damn good one.

Or is it Scott Mitchell syndrome. Great in a small sample when asked to hold it together.

I think that's a very real possibility. Remember Linsanity?
06-05-2018 02:31 PM
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salukiblue Offline
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Post: #145
RE: Trade the pick
(06-05-2018 02:31 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  
(06-05-2018 02:20 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  
(06-05-2018 02:14 PM)Tigerfan935 Wrote:  
(06-04-2018 10:50 AM)Tigx Wrote:  
(06-04-2018 10:26 AM)mrwigglesby2121 Wrote:  Stay at 4 and pick up the best player available. Do not pick another Thabeet; everyone and their blind grandma knew that was a mistake. And we need top 3 pick next year too, only this time draft Curry, Harden, Derozan, same as this year.

If we do any trades, we should be calling the Celtics. They cannot make all the talent there happy. I would take Brown, Smart, Rozier or Irving for the 4th pick.

Celts a likely trade partner, Grizz have traded a lot with the Celtics and Wallace knows Danny Ainge well.

But the Celtics would never trade Kyrie for the 4th pick, Smart is an RFA so he can't be traded, Celts have already said they are not trading core guys like Jaylen Brown.

So that leaves Rozier. A backup PG probably isn't what the Grizz FO is looking for in a trade.

But Celts have wings and PGs, and would love one of the top bigs, probably a rim protector like JJJ or Bamba. And they have 4 potential 1st round picks in next year's draft. So a lot of assets to offer. Still, hard to see a trade that works. Gasol makes some sense for the Celtics, but probably more at the trading deadline next February if the Grizz are out of contention.
I think if we learned anything from these playoffs, is that Terry Rozier is no back up point guard. That's his role for now in Boston. But Scary Terry is a starter. And a damn good one.

Or is it Scott Mitchell syndrome. Great in a small sample when asked to hold it together.

I think that's a very real possibility. Remember Linsanity?

Good call. And much more recent.
06-05-2018 03:10 PM
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Tigerfan935 Offline
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Post: #146
RE: Trade the pick
He has more dog in him than Lin. He's fearless. He would fit very well here imo. I wouldn't necessarily want to trade 4 for him tho. Especially if Luka is on the board. I'd rather make a run at him in free agency. I just want to avoid JJJ. He's the only one out of the top 6 or 7 that scare me. I think any of Luka, bamba, Young, Bags, or Wendell will be just fine. I think I'd consider a trade only if ithe was something along the lines of Terry, Brown, Semi, the 27 and our pick for next year for the 4, gasol and make them take maclemore. But they obviously want Bamba (and for good reason imo). They'd have to be able to be able to get a good return on trading Horford for this to be an option. Then I would package the 27 and a future 2nd to move up and take Mitchell Robinson ahead of the lakers.
06-05-2018 03:22 PM
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Tigx Offline
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Post: #147
RE: Trade the pick
(06-05-2018 02:14 PM)Tigerfan935 Wrote:  
(06-04-2018 10:50 AM)Tigx Wrote:  
(06-04-2018 10:26 AM)mrwigglesby2121 Wrote:  Stay at 4 and pick up the best player available. Do not pick another Thabeet; everyone and their blind grandma knew that was a mistake. And we need top 3 pick next year too, only this time draft Curry, Harden, Derozan, same as this year.

If we do any trades, we should be calling the Celtics. They cannot make all the talent there happy. I would take Brown, Smart, Rozier or Irving for the 4th pick.

Celts a likely trade partner, Grizz have traded a lot with the Celtics and Wallace knows Danny Ainge well.

But the Celtics would never trade Kyrie for the 4th pick, Smart is an RFA so he can't be traded, Celts have already said they are not trading core guys like Jaylen Brown.

So that leaves Rozier. A backup PG probably isn't what the Grizz FO is looking for in a trade.

But Celts have wings and PGs, and would love one of the top bigs, probably a rim protector like JJJ or Bamba. And they have 4 potential 1st round picks in next year's draft. So a lot of assets to offer. Still, hard to see a trade that works. Gasol makes some sense for the Celtics, but probably more at the trading deadline next February if the Grizz are out of contention.
I think if we learned anything from these playoffs, is that Terry Rozier is no back up point guard. That's his role for now in Boston. But Scary Terry is a starter. And a damn good one.

Agree that Rozier has earned a chance to be a starter, but truth is he started more games in these playoffs than in his entire prior 3 year career.

If Ainge is convinced Kyrie is healthy, would make a lot of sense for Celts to trade him now while his value is high. Next year is last on his rookie deal, so salary is only $3M. But next summer he will want to get paid.
06-05-2018 04:11 PM
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tkgrrett Offline
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Post: #148
RE: Trade the pick
(05-31-2018 04:00 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  
(05-31-2018 02:16 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  
(05-31-2018 01:17 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  
(05-31-2018 07:46 AM)tiger1016 Wrote:  
(05-30-2018 10:28 PM)NigelTufnel Wrote:  Well Harris is 35.5%, so you rounded down for one thing. Harris 2 most recent seasons are over 40%. Only 35 players in the entire league were over 40% this year and a lot of those guys are 3 point specialists, think Troy Daniels or Kyle Korver. Harris' shooting has improved as his career has progressed, Jeff Green's shooting has gotten worse, he hasn't had a full season over 35% since 2012 and actually, he's only had 2 seasons ever over 35%. It may seem trivial but 33.33% is kinda the break even point on 3 point percentage, less than that, you're probably better off shooting 2s, above that, fire away. Green is less than that, Harris is above that.

There are only 4 guys in the league who shot a higher 3 percentage and averaged more points per game than Tobias Harris, one of them is Karl Anthony Towns, the other 3 play for Golden State.

In short, Harris >>> Green

LOL
Harris - 35.5%
Green - 33.2%
I shortchanged them both it appears.

Harris is better than Green but not by much. He’s a journeyman player ala Green and is not franchise impacting. 10 teams in 7 years (although he came back to some of the same teams) does not indicate any level of confidence by the various organizations he has been on that he moves the needle much as far as an impactful player. IMO trading #4 and a potential superstar for most likely 2 role players (Harris and the 12/13 pick) is not the way to go.

The 4th pick is really not much more of a guarantee than 13 if you look at prior drafts.


To each his own though. I think Harris is way more than a role player, but you are entitled to disagree.
That is 100% false and can be easily disproven just by looking at the history of the 4th and 13th pick.

And Harris is one of those players who put up stats but doesn’t really effect wins and losses much. There is a reason he’s on his 4th team in 7 years and is now being shopped again by the Clippers

For every Russell Westbrook at 4, there is a Dragan Bender or Cody Zeller.

Last several:

4. Josh Jackson 13. Donovan Mitchell Huge edge to Mitchell so far
4. Dragan Bender 13. Papagiannis Edge Bender, Bender still not good
4. Porzingis 13. Devon Booker Edge Porzingis, but Booker is really good too
4. Aaron Gordon 13. Zach Lavine Lavine got hurt, and is just coming back, if he returns to form, he's just as good or better than Gordon
4. Cody Zeller 13. Kelly Olynyk Edge Olynyk
4. Dion Waiters 13. Kendall Marshall Edge Waiters, but he's terrible
4. Tristan Thompson 13. Markieff Morris Probably a wash
4. Wesley Johnson 13. Ed Davis Edge Johnson, but he's nothing special
4. Tyreke Evans 13. Tyler Hansborough Edge Evans, but again, nothing special.
4. Westbrook 13. Brandon Rush Huge edge RWB
4. Mike Conley 13. Julian Wright Huge edge Conley
4. Tyrus Thomas 13. Thabo Sefolosho Edge Sefoloshu

Based on the above, I stand by what I said, which was that the 4 pick is not much more of a guarantee than the 13. 12 years, two All Stars on that list picked at 4.

I could totally see Booker and Mitchell making All Star teams in the future.

You are looking at this completely wrong - first off, in all cases you mention the team picking at #4 had the option to choose the player chosen at #13? So the implication would be that you would be that either 1) for some reason you trade down because you don't trust yourself to properly evaluate; or 2) You think that you are SO MUCH better at evaluating than everyone else that you can somehow reliably predict a diamond in the rough and pick him up later in the draft. Both options are hard to make sense of.

Better way to think about it would be to look at the outcomes of players 4-12 over time vs. players drafted 13 and later - after all, what you are actually giving up is the opportunity to draft those players that were taken between picks 4-12 when you trade down to 13.
06-07-2018 12:07 PM
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Crazier Offline
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Post: #149
RE: Trade the pick
(05-20-2018 02:22 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:19 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:10 PM)Crazier Wrote:  If we can unload parson's contract with that draft pick then I'm all for it. No Ayton or Doncic so I don't think that draft pick will make us better.

That’s the craziest thing I’ve ever heard

Crazierest

Grizz shopping number 4 pick and Parsons sources say

Maybe I'm not so crazy. Maybe I'm the Robert Pera disguised as a Tiger fan
06-21-2018 04:59 PM
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Latilleon Offline
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Post: #150
RE: Trade the pick
(06-21-2018 04:59 PM)Crazier Wrote:  
(05-20-2018 02:22 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:19 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:10 PM)Crazier Wrote:  If we can unload parson's contract with that draft pick then I'm all for it. No Ayton or Doncic so I don't think that draft pick will make us better.

That’s the craziest thing I’ve ever heard

Crazierest

Grizz shopping number 4 pick and Parsons sources say

Maybe I'm not so crazy. Maybe I'm the Robert Pera disguised as a Tiger fan

Trading Parsons makes no sense outside of economic release for Pera because even if his salary was dumped, they aren't adding anyone because it won't give them much cap room.
06-21-2018 09:10 PM
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Crazier Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Trade the pick
(06-21-2018 09:10 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 04:59 PM)Crazier Wrote:  
(05-20-2018 02:22 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:19 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:10 PM)Crazier Wrote:  If we can unload parson's contract with that draft pick then I'm all for it. No Ayton or Doncic so I don't think that draft pick will make us better.

That’s the craziest thing I’ve ever heard

Crazierest

Grizz shopping number 4 pick and Parsons sources say

Maybe I'm not so crazy. Maybe I'm the Robert Pera disguised as a Tiger fan

Trading Parsons makes no sense outside of economic release for Pera because even if his salary was dumped, they aren't adding anyone because it won't give them much cap room.

Wait getting rid of a max contract bum wouldn't save us money? Are we in the luxury tax? Explain. We could at least resign Evans if we got rid of him.
06-22-2018 02:23 AM
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oldmangrizz Offline
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Post: #152
RE: Trade the pick
(06-22-2018 02:23 AM)Crazier Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 09:10 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 04:59 PM)Crazier Wrote:  
(05-20-2018 02:22 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:19 PM)Dynamos Wrote:  That’s the craziest thing I’ve ever heard

Crazierest

Grizz shopping number 4 pick and Parsons sources say

Maybe I'm not so crazy. Maybe I'm the Robert Pera disguised as a Tiger fan

Trading Parsons makes no sense outside of economic release for Pera because even if his salary was dumped, they aren't adding anyone because it won't give them much cap room.

Wait getting rid of a max contract bum wouldn't save us money? Are we in the luxury tax? Explain. We could at least resign Evans if we got rid of him.

I'm sure someone can explain this better than me. However, I believe that if you trade Parsons, you must take back essentially that same amount of money as his contract is this year. You won't really gain the cap space until next year. The first year is just a wash.
06-22-2018 06:28 AM
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Crazier Offline
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Post: #153
RE: Trade the pick
(06-22-2018 06:28 AM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  
(06-22-2018 02:23 AM)Crazier Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 09:10 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 04:59 PM)Crazier Wrote:  
(05-20-2018 02:22 PM)MemphisTigerPawr Wrote:  Crazierest

Grizz shopping number 4 pick and Parsons sources say

Maybe I'm not so crazy. Maybe I'm the Robert Pera disguised as a Tiger fan

Trading Parsons makes no sense outside of economic release for Pera because even if his salary was dumped, they aren't adding anyone because it won't give them much cap room.

Wait getting rid of a max contract bum wouldn't save us money? Are we in the luxury tax? Explain. We could at least resign Evans if we got rid of him.

I'm sure someone can explain this better than me. However, I believe that if you trade Parsons, you must take back essentially that same amount of money as his contract is this year. You won't really gain the cap space until next year. The first year is just a wash.

Okay thank you. You explained it good enough. I forgot about that. NBA trades system sucks. NFL has them beat in that department. You can trade a good veteran for a 6th round draft pick straight up in the NFL. I forgot about the matching salaries in the NBA. I was thinking we could trade him and be cleared of that salary.
06-22-2018 10:44 AM
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Latilleon Offline
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Post: #154
RE: Trade the pick
(06-22-2018 10:44 AM)Crazier Wrote:  
(06-22-2018 06:28 AM)oldmangrizz Wrote:  
(06-22-2018 02:23 AM)Crazier Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 09:10 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  
(06-21-2018 04:59 PM)Crazier Wrote:  Grizz shopping number 4 pick and Parsons sources say

Maybe I'm not so crazy. Maybe I'm the Robert Pera disguised as a Tiger fan

Trading Parsons makes no sense outside of economic release for Pera because even if his salary was dumped, they aren't adding anyone because it won't give them much cap room.

Wait getting rid of a max contract bum wouldn't save us money? Are we in the luxury tax? Explain. We could at least resign Evans if we got rid of him.

I'm sure someone can explain this better than me. However, I believe that if you trade Parsons, you must take back essentially that same amount of money as his contract is this year. You won't really gain the cap space until next year. The first year is just a wash.

Okay thank you. You explained it good enough. I forgot about that. NBA trades system sucks. NFL has them beat in that department. You can trade a good veteran for a 6th round draft pick straight up in the NFL. I forgot about the matching salaries in the NBA. I was thinking we could trade him and be cleared of that salary.

NFL trades work the same way except there is a hard cap and contracts aren’t guaranteed. That’s why NFL trades for players are few and far between.

Basically even if a team with enough cap space took Parsons without sending a player, the Grizzlies wouldn’t get much cap space. According to Herrington, it would be about the same amount as the current mid-level exception.

So if you did that theoretical trade, it helps the team’s bottom line, but it doesn’t allow room to sign players. You would get a trade exemption that could be use to trade for a guy but usually using that means you’re picking up someone else’s problem.
06-25-2018 07:33 PM
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