Saw the NCAA Commission report came out today....

some big things heard so far(haven't seen it yet)

ending 1 and dones

if you go to NBA draft and don't get drafted- allowed to return to college
players allowed to sign with agent and remain NCAA eligible

far stiffer punishments for coaches who break rules

changing July where only events coaches could go to are NCAA events instead of the ones put together by shoe companies.

keeping in place sit out rules for transfers

(04-25-2018 09:17 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Saw the NCAA Commission report came out today....

some big things heard so far(haven't seen it yet)

ending 1 and dones

if you go to NBA draft and don't get drafted- allowed to return to college
players allowed to sign with agent and remain NCAA eligible

far stiffer punishments for coaches who break rules

changing July where only events coaches could go to are NCAA events instead of the ones put together by shoe companies.

keeping in place sit out rules for transfers

All of that sounds good to me.

Meh. This report doesn't solve the core root of the issue with NCAA: there will continue to be people (whether coaches, boosters, alumni, shoe companies, etc.) that illegally provide money to other people (players, parents, families, etc.) to secure those players in some form.

The agent-recommendation accommodation (if student-athletes do not receive that advice openly/freely, then they will find a way to get it in other forms; therefore, let's make it ok for players to hire an agent, but - if not drafted - they can return to school) is similar to this money issue. If players are unable to receive payments/stipends for their playing capabilities, they will find alternative methods of getting compensation. None of these recommendations address that.

My question is if an expected lottery pick for - whatever reason - drops in the draft and is taken in the late-first or early-second, would that player still have the right to forego his draft status and return to college? If a player does not like the franchise that drafts him, can he forego signing and return to college?

***EDIT***

I see that the guidelines are only for undrafted players. That answers that.

ending 1 and dones --

All they can do is ask the NBA to eliminate it. The drastic step of making freshmen ineligible in men's hoops won't happen because the best players (and a lot of others) would go play at jucos if they don't go to the NBA and can't play in college, forcing college teams to do far more recruiting than they already do, or worse, taking a much larger number of the best players out of college hoops altogether than would be taken out if the NBA changed its draft rules..

if you go to NBA draft and don't get drafted- allowed to return to college
players allowed to sign with agent and remain NCAA eligible --

This is one thing they actually can do. It's how college baseball works; they should have already implemented this for all college sports.

far stiffer punishments for coaches who break rules --

This is not workable if the punishments are as drastic as they suggest. If the rule is that a head coach is banned for life when a recruit gets a thousand bucks from an agent, then the system will find a way to overlook the violation rather than imposing such a drastic penalty. Compare it to say, fouls in basketball games: If the rule was that one foul disqualified a player from the game, instead of five fouls, officials would just stop calling fouls because the punishment is too extreme. They need to find a balance where the punishment is stronger but not so strong that it will never be used.

changing July where only events coaches could go to are NCAA events instead of the ones put together by shoe companies --

This is a feel-good rule that they could easily implement, but would do almost nothing to change the influence of shoe companies. And if AAU players stick with the shoe company events instead of the NCAA-sponsored events, then the NCAA events won't have the elite prospects the coaches want to see.

Also:

Quote:The commission's report admonished those within college sports who use the NCAA as a scapegoat for the problems in basketball, saying universities and individuals are accountable for keeping the game clean.

This is silly. No one seriously argues that the NCAA is itself the problem. But the NCAA is impotent when it comes to enforcement, and it's fair to question whether the NCAA looks the other way with basketball, more than other sports, because the NCAA makes nearly all of its money from March Madness. It's been known for a long time that shoe money flows through college hoops, but the NCAA pretended to not notice until the feds very publicly indicted several people.

(04-25-2018 10:00 AM)Wedge Wrote:  ending 1 and dones --

All they can do is ask the NBA to eliminate it. The drastic step of making freshmen ineligible in men's hoops won't happen because the best players (and a lot of others) would go play at jucos if they don't go to the NBA and can't play in college, forcing college teams to do far more recruiting than they already do, or worse, taking a much larger number of the best players out of college hoops altogether than would be taken out if the NBA changed its draft rules..

if you go to NBA draft and don't get drafted- allowed to return to college
players allowed to sign with agent and remain NCAA eligible --

This is one thing they actually can do. It's how college baseball works; they should have already implemented this for all college sports.

far stiffer punishments for coaches who break rules --

This is not workable if the punishments are as drastic as they suggest. If the rule is that a head coach is banned for life when a recruit gets a thousand bucks from an agent, then the system will find a way to overlook the violation rather than imposing such a drastic penalty. Compare it to say, fouls in basketball games: If the rule was that one foul disqualified a player from the game, instead of five fouls, officials would just stop calling fouls because the punishment is too extreme. They need to find a balance where the punishment is stronger but not so strong that it will never be used.

changing July where only events coaches could go to are NCAA events instead of the ones put together by shoe companies --

This is a feel-good rule that they could easily implement, but would do almost nothing to change the influence of shoe companies. And if AAU players stick with the shoe company events instead of the NCAA-sponsored events, then the NCAA events won't have the elite prospects the coaches want to see.

Also:

Quote:The commission's report admonished those within college sports who use the NCAA as a scapegoat for the problems in basketball, saying universities and individuals are accountable for keeping the game clean.

This is silly. No one seriously argues that the NCAA is itself the problem. But the NCAA is impotent when it comes to enforcement, and it's fair to question whether the NCAA looks the other way with basketball, more than other sports, because the NCAA makes nearly all of its money from March Madness. It's been known for a long time that shoe money flows through college hoops, but the NCAA pretended to not notice until the feds very publicly indicted several people.

Great post. And I would add to the latter that the NCAA does not treat each violating institution in a fair and consistent manner. So, yes, they are most definitely part of the problem as well. Yet nothing in the report seems to address this issue.

Their don't stink, but everyone else's involved (college institutions, coaches, NBA, shoe companies, AAU, high school players looking to do what is economically right for their families, etc.) does.

Sad.

Cheers,
Neil

(04-25-2018 10:00 AM)Wedge Wrote:  ending 1 and dones --

All they can do is ask the NBA to eliminate it. The drastic step of making freshmen ineligible in men's hoops won't happen because the best players (and a lot of others) would go play at jucos if they don't go to the NBA and can't play in college, forcing college teams to do far more recruiting than they already do, or worse, taking a much larger number of the best players out of college hoops altogether than would be taken out if the NBA changed its draft rules..

if you go to NBA draft and don't get drafted- allowed to return to college
players allowed to sign with agent and remain NCAA eligible --

This is one thing they actually can do. It's how college baseball works; they should have already implemented this for all college sports.

far stiffer punishments for coaches who break rules --

This is not workable if the punishments are as drastic as they suggest. If the rule is that a head coach is banned for life when a recruit gets a thousand bucks from an agent, then the system will find a way to overlook the violation rather than imposing such a drastic penalty. Compare it to say, fouls in basketball games: If the rule was that one foul disqualified a player from the game, instead of five fouls, officials would just stop calling fouls because the punishment is too extreme. They need to find a balance where the punishment is stronger but not so strong that it will never be used.

changing July where only events coaches could go to are NCAA events instead of the ones put together by shoe companies --

This is a feel-good rule that they could easily implement, but would do almost nothing to change the influence of shoe companies. And if AAU players stick with the shoe company events instead of the NCAA-sponsored events, then the NCAA events won't have the elite prospects the coaches want to see.

Also:

Quote:The commission's report admonished those within college sports who use the NCAA as a scapegoat for the problems in basketball, saying universities and individuals are accountable for keeping the game clean.

This is silly. No one seriously argues that the NCAA is itself the problem. But the NCAA is impotent when it comes to enforcement, and it's fair to question whether the NCAA looks the other way with basketball, more than other sports, because the NCAA makes nearly all of its money from March Madness. It's been known for a long time that shoe money flows through college hoops, but the NCAA pretended to not notice until the feds very publicly indicted several people.

for the summer thing- If they make it where the NCAA events are the only place where college coaches can go- that's going to be huge. Sure your top players may stick with the shoe company things- but those were ones that would be going pro directly anyways. If the only place college coaches can watch players is the NCAA events, 99% of the players would go to the NCAA events. It would totally be a game changer IMO.

didn't appear to address the transfer topic at all?

(04-25-2018 10:14 AM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  didn't appear to address the transfer topic at all?

according to Jon Rothstein, they said to keep the 1 year sit out rule in place.

(04-25-2018 10:14 AM)TIGER-PAUL Wrote:  didn't appear to address the transfer topic at all?

Because in their minds the current NCAA rule is fine. The whole report appears to be nothing but "NCAA rules are fine, it's what everyone else is doing to skirt around them" that is the problem.

And if this trend of skirting around all the perfectly sane and logically correct NCAA rules continues (their mindset), then we will just have to enforce harsher penalties to coaches (lifetime bans) or players themselves (in the NBA enforced one-and-done instance - to consider making freshman ineligible to play).

The only hint of the NCAA admitting perhaps being "wrong" on anything is the allowing players to enter the draft but come back to college if not drafted and that is simply because the NCAA already has such a system in place for another college sport - baseball. So basically extending a current NCAA rule from another sport to basketball.

Cheers,
Neil

(04-25-2018 09:17 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Saw the NCAA Commission report came out today....

changing July where only events coaches could go to are NCAA events instead of the ones put together by shoe companies.

keeping in place sit out rules for transfers

Eliminate the "packet racket" and force HS players and families pay the NCAA more money .
Brilliant.
But we'll still take the free shoes and uniforms for our teams.

Gary Parrish's tweet sums up today,"Bottom line, the Commission on College Basketball was created because an FBI investigation uncovered some people were illegally giving money to other people to secure players in some form. And these recommendations do little, if not nothing, to address that central issue."

Here is a point I like if they do it in an effective manner.

An independent investigatory and adjudicative body for more serious and complex infractions issues.

In my opinion having been in and around the process, the Committee on Infractions is composed of a well intentioned and serious minded group of people. Many have achieved the pinnacle of their career, a number are retired. Others though are not as far as long in their career and like it or not, have to have in the back of their mind that a vote here might cut off some career options.

Historically the investigative staff has served the committee, that has led to a perception within the collegiate community that the staff and the committee are too close to each other. It is widely thought that staff has frequent ex parte discussions with the committee during the process. It is widely believed that the committee will have informal discussion ahead of the hearings.

I do not have any idea if these perceptions are accurate, just that the perceptions exist.

What the NCAA needs is an Office of Investigations that answers to the President of the NCAA and an Office of Infractions Decisions that has trained adjudicators to hear the matters and either issue findings, conclusions and sanctions that can be appealed to the Committee or at the very minimum issue proposed findings, conclusions and sanctions to be given final approval by the committee after all parties are served a copy.

The only time investigators should be in contact with the adjudication side is during a hearing, when a person subject to the rules of the NCAA refuses to cooperate, the investigation side should be able to file for what would essentially be a contempt citation to sanction the person for failing to cooperate (ie. Coach X is to be denied payment of his post-season bonus, Coach Y is prohibited from all recruiting visits until he complies, Coach Z is suspended from all activities as a member of the staff until she complies) and hear arguments from both sides as to the "contempt" citation, or the investigative side should be able to file with the adjudication side a "plea agreement" that the individual if the agreement is approved, will receive the following sanctions instead of the full range of possible sanctions in return for credible evidence or testimony against others. If Coach W agrees to provide additional information he gives up his post-season bonus, is on two years probation, and cannot participate in recruiting activities for six months if he delivers the goods. If he fails to, he gets whatever the evidence warrants.

The adjudicators should have strong employment contracts that prevent them from being fired or sanctioned as long as they don't commit malfeasance or misfeasance.

Cleaning up the infractions process is essential.

ESPN have a ticker saying that coaches could also get a lifetime banned from the NCAA. This could mean Rick Pitino could be banned for life.

(04-25-2018 09:25 AM)Tigeer Wrote:  

(04-25-2018 09:17 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Saw the NCAA Commission report came out today....

some big things heard so far(haven't seen it yet)

ending 1 and dones

if you go to NBA draft and don't get drafted- allowed to return to college
players allowed to sign with agent and remain NCAA eligible

far stiffer punishments for coaches who break rules

changing July where only events coaches could go to are NCAA events instead of the ones put together by shoe companies.

keeping in place sit out rules for transfers

All of that sounds good to me.

The problem is treating athletes differently than regular students. There should be no sit out rules for transfers. Coaches don't have to sit out. Players don't get those rules waived when coaches change. Players do get forced out. Its a really bad rule. They just need severe penalties for coaches recruiting other school's signees.

there absolutely should be sit out rules for transfers because you know damn well there would be tampering and it would be the wild wild west.

There were two proposals in Rice's report that I think were most important

1. Allow players to have agents without losing eligibility -- at least to consult with registered agents
// she said the NCAA recognizes that if it's not allowed, players will understandably seek out illicit agents
// the whole "runner" issue is created by this - an acknowledgment that NCAA rules created underground in the first place
2. Allow players who are not drafted to remain in college

She also said they put off the merchandise thing because they are waiting for legal decisions to know the framework of what may or may not be allowed by the courts.

So not all the NCAA rules are fine and dandy in the report.

I feel like the NCAA is trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want the best 18-22 yr olds playing NCAA basketball as amateurs.

The trouble is that the best 18-22 yr olds are allured by the prospect of being compensated for their service in more ways than tuition, room, and board.

The top NCAA programs have the glitz and glam and thousands of fans but no legitimate cash while a minor league would offer some cash but no prestige.

(04-25-2018 09:17 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Saw the NCAA Commission report came out today....

some big things heard so far(haven't seen it yet)

ending 1 and dones

if you go to NBA draft and don't get drafted- allowed to return to college
players allowed to sign with agent and remain NCAA eligible

far stiffer punishments for coaches who break rules

changing July where only events coaches could go to are NCAA events instead of the ones put together by shoe companies.

keeping in place sit out rules for transfers

Does this mean a change in football also. It may not be as much of an effect. but seems more players would announce to go to the draft. This would seem to effect recruiting because of the draft date.

(04-25-2018 09:10 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  

(04-25-2018 09:17 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Saw the NCAA Commission report came out today....

some big things heard so far(haven't seen it yet)

ending 1 and dones

if you go to NBA draft and don't get drafted- allowed to return to college
players allowed to sign with agent and remain NCAA eligible

far stiffer punishments for coaches who break rules

changing July where only events coaches could go to are NCAA events instead of the ones put together by shoe companies.

keeping in place sit out rules for transfers

Does this mean a change in football also. It may not be as much of an effect. but seems more players would announce to go to the draft. This would seem to effect recruiting because of the draft date.

They were not directed to make recommendations for football.

The CBS podcast noted something about the impact of such a change in Bylaws.

Basically, if one declares and does not get drafted, the point of signing with an agent is to get "one's foot in the door" for a job: Summer League, G League, training camp invite, or with a club internationally.

(04-25-2018 10:00 AM)Wedge Wrote:  ending 1 and dones --

All they can do is ask the NBA to eliminate it.

Yep. E.g., I like the Big East's proposed "two or none" rule, but it doesn't matter what the Big East or the entire NCAA thinks, it's up to the NBA.

(04-26-2018 09:25 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(04-25-2018 10:00 AM)Wedge Wrote:  ending 1 and dones --

All they can do is ask the NBA to eliminate it.

Yep. E.g., I like the Big East's proposed "two or none" rule, but it doesn't matter what the Big East or the entire NCAA thinks, it's up to the NBA.

If the NBA does away with "one and done", it will be for "none and done". not "two or none".