Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
Author Message
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 22,179
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 650
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #81
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-19-2018 04:13 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 02:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 12:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 11:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  You dream sir! There's nothing in the ACC that Texas would care about, including Notre Dame. Dodds and Swarbrick were somewhat close. Other than that nobody at UT gets out of bed every morning pining to play anyone in the ACC.

It's a move that ESPN would encourage to help preserve the ACC for the long term.
In that regard, Notre Dame would encourage it too.

If anything happens to the ACC, the most likely movement would be Carolina and Georgia Tech moving to the B1G. Sure the SEC could swoop in an take Florida State and Clemson or NC State and Va. Tech but the real damage would have been done to ESPN. It would give the B1G control of the east coast population centers (with the exception of Florida) and then they could and would patiently wait on the 'gators.

ESPN already preserved the ACC a while back. Nobody is going to leave for the B1G that the ACC would mind losing. And ESPN gains nothing by moving properties it already has from the ACC to the SEC. All they need to do is acquire the Texahoma Four for the SEC and it's game over. The B1G and/or Fox can't hurt them.

My point exactly!
No conference is moving to 18. So the idea that the Texahoma 4 would move to the SEC is moot. Duke has already put the kibosh on Oklahoma, so the sooners nor the Cowboys will be moving to the ACC. You have already suggested that West Virginia won't be going to the ACC or the SEC so it's necessary to park Texas (and as you suggest Texas Tech) somewhere in an ESPN conference. So if Oklahoma and Oklahoma State do indeed move to the SEC, then Texas and a friend logically would land in the ACC. I'm just suggesting that it would be in a Notre Dame style partial membership so that Texas could maintain a Texas centric schedule with OOC flexibility.

I'm not sure what that point is. I just disagree that no conference would move to 18. I believe that the SEC would do that with Texahoma in a heartbeat.

And I think ESPN wouldn't much care what happens to West Virginia or the rest of the B12. I would anticipate that they would take 6 schools from the AAC and hope that gets them a respectable media contract (maybe 30-40% of what they get now) and a seat in the NY6. Whether they get that deal from Fox or ESPN or a combination of the two doesn't make much difference.

The networks don't want a P4. The more concentrated the power teams are the greater the negotiating leverage because there are fewer alternatives.

The thing is when you get to 18 if you use divisions you are splitting up schools that want to play each other.

At that point you have two choices change the rules to get 3 or more divisions or scrap divisions and just pit the top ranked in the title game. Let the schools iron out 3-4 games and let TV and the conference work out the 4-6 games.
05-19-2018 09:52 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 16,468
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 909
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #82
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-19-2018 09:52 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 04:13 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 02:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 12:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 11:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  It's a move that ESPN would encourage to help preserve the ACC for the long term.
In that regard, Notre Dame would encourage it too.

If anything happens to the ACC, the most likely movement would be Carolina and Georgia Tech moving to the B1G. Sure the SEC could swoop in an take Florida State and Clemson or NC State and Va. Tech but the real damage would have been done to ESPN. It would give the B1G control of the east coast population centers (with the exception of Florida) and then they could and would patiently wait on the 'gators.

ESPN already preserved the ACC a while back. Nobody is going to leave for the B1G that the ACC would mind losing. And ESPN gains nothing by moving properties it already has from the ACC to the SEC. All they need to do is acquire the Texahoma Four for the SEC and it's game over. The B1G and/or Fox can't hurt them.

My point exactly!
No conference is moving to 18. So the idea that the Texahoma 4 would move to the SEC is moot. Duke has already put the kibosh on Oklahoma, so the sooners nor the Cowboys will be moving to the ACC. You have already suggested that West Virginia won't be going to the ACC or the SEC so it's necessary to park Texas (and as you suggest Texas Tech) somewhere in an ESPN conference. So if Oklahoma and Oklahoma State do indeed move to the SEC, then Texas and a friend logically would land in the ACC. I'm just suggesting that it would be in a Notre Dame style partial membership so that Texas could maintain a Texas centric schedule with OOC flexibility.

I'm not sure what that point is. I just disagree that no conference would move to 18. I believe that the SEC would do that with Texahoma in a heartbeat.

And I think ESPN wouldn't much care what happens to West Virginia or the rest of the B12. I would anticipate that they would take 6 schools from the AAC and hope that gets them a respectable media contract (maybe 30-40% of what they get now) and a seat in the NY6. Whether they get that deal from Fox or ESPN or a combination of the two doesn't make much difference.

The networks don't want a P4. The more concentrated the power teams are the greater the negotiating leverage because there are fewer alternatives.

The thing is when you get to 18 if you use divisions you are splitting up schools that want to play each other.

At that point you have two choices change the rules to get 3 or more divisions or scrap divisions and just pit the top ranked in the title game. Let the schools iron out 3-4 games and let TV and the conference work out the 4-6 games.

1. Networks are just interested in whose rights they control and moving into an era when there may be multiple new competitors they won't care about who is in a group and who is not as long as they access the rights.

2. Whether you have 3 divisions of 6 or two divisions of 9 the rules are on the book already that would permit all 18 schools to play each other over the course of 3 years. So passing legislation on divisional structure, or not passing it wouldn't limit the flexibility of scheduling. What's more is that you can accomplish this with 9 conference games. Ten if you need an annual protected rival, or still with 9 if that protected rival was played as an OOC game when out of the rotation.
05-19-2018 10:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DawgNBama Offline
NCR Ranger
*

Posts: 2,596
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 71
I Root For: p-natal vitamin
Location: prenatal vitamins
Post: #83
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-19-2018 12:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 11:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 09:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

Texas like Notre Dame needs the flexibility to be themselves. Because there are no ideal situations for various reasons in any conference as a full member, the Longhorns will eventually accept a partial in the ACC to achieve Notre Dame status.
I think one Texas school (most likely TCU) joins the ACC in full to give the 'Horns a travel partner.

You dream sir! There's nothing in the ACC that Texas would care about, including Notre Dame. Dodds and Swarbrick were somewhat close. Other than that nobody at UT gets out of bed every morning pining to play anyone in the ACC.

It's a move that ESPN would encourage to help preserve the ACC for the long term.
In that regard, Notre Dame would encourage it too.

If anything happens to the ACC, the most likely movement would be Carolina and Georgia Tech moving to the B1G. Sure the SEC could swoop in an take Florida State and Clemson or NC State and Va. Tech but the real damage would have been done to ESPN. It would give the B1G control of the east coast population centers (with the exception of Florida) and then they could and would patiently wait on the 'gators.

ESPN already preserved the ACC a while back. Nobody is going to leave for the B1G that the ACC would mind losing. And ESPN gains nothing by moving properties it already has from the ACC to the SEC. All they need to do is acquire the Texahoma Four for the SEC and it's game over. The B1G and/or Fox can't hurt them.

It is for that matter, IMO, that I believe Fox will pressure the Pac 12 to do something about its conference network. The Big Ten can’t match the SEC’s appeal, but the Pac 12 could possibly. Texas had talked to the Pac 12 about joining in the past, so its not too much of a stretch to see that happening. Now add in the Big Ten playing Pac 12 teams a lot OOC, and you have yourself a pretty good deal.

What likely happen and will be @ the federal government’s insistence (read FBI, Sherman Antitrust, etc) is that the Texahoma 4 will be split between the Pac 12 & the SEC so as to not let one conference have too much power/wealth than the other.
05-20-2018 02:03 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Fighting Muskie Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,313
Joined: Sep 2016
Reputation: 37
I Root For: Ohio St, MAC
Location:
Post: #84
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
I'd be curious to see if we ever evolve into a Power 2 Era, where the Big Ten adds Notre Dame, possibly some northern ACC schools, the cream of the Pac 12, and Kansas to bridge the gap while the SEC samples the best elements of the Big 12 and ACC.
05-20-2018 07:50 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ken d Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 8,947
Joined: Dec 2013
Reputation: 362
I Root For: college sports
Location: Raleigh
Post: #85
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-20-2018 02:03 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 12:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 11:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 09:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  Texas like Notre Dame needs the flexibility to be themselves. Because there are no ideal situations for various reasons in any conference as a full member, the Longhorns will eventually accept a partial in the ACC to achieve Notre Dame status.
I think one Texas school (most likely TCU) joins the ACC in full to give the 'Horns a travel partner.

You dream sir! There's nothing in the ACC that Texas would care about, including Notre Dame. Dodds and Swarbrick were somewhat close. Other than that nobody at UT gets out of bed every morning pining to play anyone in the ACC.

It's a move that ESPN would encourage to help preserve the ACC for the long term.
In that regard, Notre Dame would encourage it too.

If anything happens to the ACC, the most likely movement would be Carolina and Georgia Tech moving to the B1G. Sure the SEC could swoop in an take Florida State and Clemson or NC State and Va. Tech but the real damage would have been done to ESPN. It would give the B1G control of the east coast population centers (with the exception of Florida) and then they could and would patiently wait on the 'gators.

ESPN already preserved the ACC a while back. Nobody is going to leave for the B1G that the ACC would mind losing. And ESPN gains nothing by moving properties it already has from the ACC to the SEC. All they need to do is acquire the Texahoma Four for the SEC and it's game over. The B1G and/or Fox can't hurt them.

It is for that matter, IMO, that I believe Fox will pressure the Pac 12 to do something about its conference network. The Big Ten can’t match the SEC’s appeal, but the Pac 12 could possibly. Texas had talked to the Pac 12 about joining in the past, so its not too much of a stretch to see that happening. Now add in the Big Ten playing Pac 12 teams a lot OOC, and you have yourself a pretty good deal.

What likely happen and will be @ the federal government’s insistence (read FBI, Sherman Antitrust, etc) is that the Texahoma 4 will be split between the Pac 12 & the SEC so as to not let one conference have too much power/wealth than the other.

You don't want to say never, but there is less than a 1% chance that the government is going to tell Texas what conference they can play in. Or anyone else, for that matter.
05-20-2018 08:12 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 27,144
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 636
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #86
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-20-2018 07:50 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'd be curious to see if we ever evolve into a Power 2 Era, where the Big Ten adds Notre Dame, possibly some northern ACC schools, the cream of the Pac 12, and Kansas to bridge the gap while the SEC samples the best elements of the Big 12 and ACC.

It could happen in about 5 years. A Pac 12/Big 12/Big 10 alliance when the TV contract comes up, pushing the two with ESPN ties, the SEC and ACC, together.


It wouldn't be two NCAA conferences, but it would be two "leagues" or "groups."
05-20-2018 08:43 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 16,468
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 909
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #87
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-20-2018 08:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-20-2018 07:50 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'd be curious to see if we ever evolve into a Power 2 Era, where the Big Ten adds Notre Dame, possibly some northern ACC schools, the cream of the Pac 12, and Kansas to bridge the gap while the SEC samples the best elements of the Big 12 and ACC.

It could happen in about 5 years. A Pac 12/Big 12/Big 10 alliance when the TV contract comes up, pushing the two with ESPN ties, the SEC and ACC, together.


It wouldn't be two NCAA conferences, but it would be two "leagues" or "groups."
I agree we could be headed for two leagues. I disagree that it will be handled along strict conference lines. ESPN will push hard for product they want before hand. While Texas academia might like a broader PAC / Big 10 affiliation that certainly would not be true for all of the Big 12 and certainly wouldn't be true of those who actually support Texas athletics with donations and attendance. The whole business model for UT is built upon playing as many games in the Lone Star state as they can. The reason is simple. It's easy for their fans to access.
05-20-2018 10:18 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
DawgNBama Offline
NCR Ranger
*

Posts: 2,596
Joined: Sep 2002
Reputation: 71
I Root For: p-natal vitamin
Location: prenatal vitamins
Post: #88
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
I can eventually see the Texas state legislature getting involved with the Texas-Texas A&M situation eventually. But yes, Texas, like any other P5’er, wants to play as many games in its home state as possible. That’s why I see Texas Tech going with Texas to the Pac12, and how I see OU & OSU possibly headed to the SEC, with the RRS being an OOC game like it used to be.
05-20-2018 03:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
arkstfan Away
Sorry folks
*

Posts: 22,179
Joined: Feb 2004
Reputation: 650
I Root For: Fresh Starts
Location:
Post: #89
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-20-2018 07:50 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'd be curious to see if we ever evolve into a Power 2 Era, where the Big Ten adds Notre Dame, possibly some northern ACC schools, the cream of the Pac 12, and Kansas to bridge the gap while the SEC samples the best elements of the Big 12 and ACC.

My best guess.

Two league would be more like two association or quasi-association.

What we have now isn't how things were always done. For much of the history of the NCAA, the NCAA didn't do much more than oversee playing rules, compile stats, and set some very basic standards. Conferences almost universally had more restrictive rules for the members than the NCAA.

Until 1948 there were basically no NCAA limits on player compensation. Conferences set the limits. The NCAA came up with the sanity code in 1948 and wanted to ban all compensation including athletic scholarships and the association put 7 schools up for expulsion. Four Southern Conference members (Virginia Tech, Maryland, VMI, and The Citadel) plus Boston College, Villanova, and Virginia. The membership refused to expel them because most were offering players scholarships as well.

We went 42 years with basically an "anything goes" but conferences did impose limits and independents were essentially only held in check by boycotts. If you were an independent known for free spending then the members of the Southern, SEC, Big 10, Missouri Valley, Big 8 etc. might choose to not play you, in fact at the league meetings the conference might threaten anyone thinking of playing them.

If we don't devolve into something like that, and we don't see something like Pac-12 and Big 10 doing an administrative merger combining their TV rights and league overhead while maintaining different identities within the NCAA, then I think the smallest you would see would be a power 3 with the Pac-12 being the smallest of the power players.

Four is more likely unless there is a real shift in the thinking of the leagues.
05-21-2018 01:54 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
jdgaucho Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,715
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 31
I Root For: UCSB
Location: Big West Land
Post: #90
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(04-16-2018 11:00 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 10:54 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 10:27 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 09:40 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  ...and a license to hunt!
04-rock

Which should scare the crap out of you because when Swofford has gone hunting he's typically looked like this:

[Image: RRARxqA.jpg]

and been about as successful.

I think Swofford has done a good job. It's easy to be Delany, or Slive when he was the SEC commissioner; that's like sitting at a poker table with a hand of aces over kings. Of course you look like a good poker player when you always have hands like that. Swofford has sat down at the table with just a pair of fours in his hand and done pretty well considering that. It's not like Alabama or Ohio State was ever going to join the ACC.

Easy for you to say. Being the only game in town on the left coast makes it to where you aren't competing on a daily basis with two 800lb gorillas. Swofford made it where we were trying to do that with one hand tied behind out back so his son could keep his job, and when time came to add value we added two schools with low ceilings and the unwanted sports programs of another. It was only after a revolt that any real athletic value was added to this conference.

Hey, if you like Larry Scott better, I'd be happy to trade. Hope you'll be happy with a commissioner who pays his underlings twice what they're worth, rents a ton of the most expensive real estate on the west coast at the conference's expense, and botches negotiations with a carrier that has a third of the TV market in your largest state while he preens himself at overseas photo ops.

I'd take Larry Scott over what we have now. At least he can sell a vision, unlike our current commissioner who has none.
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2018 05:38 PM by jdgaucho.)
05-23-2018 02:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
XLance Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 7,704
Joined: Mar 2008
Reputation: 193
I Root For: Carolina
Location:
Post: #91
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
Two leagues would allow conferences to be smaller and more regional.
If the P5 divided in half with 32 teams per league (plus Notre Dame on one side) we could go back to 8 team conferences playing in a 16 team division.
More regional play, less travel but still have the opportunity to have premier matchups within a league.
05-23-2018 04:21 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
bullet Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 27,144
Joined: Apr 2012
Reputation: 636
I Root For: Texas, UK, UGA
Location:
Post: #92
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-23-2018 04:21 AM)XLance Wrote:  Two leagues would allow conferences to be smaller and more regional.
If the P5 divided in half with 32 teams per league (plus Notre Dame on one side) we could go back to 8 team conferences playing in a 16 team division.
More regional play, less travel but still have the opportunity to have premier matchups within a league.

Or you could have 2 groups each with three 12 team leagues or 3 groups each with two 12 team leagues.

In the SEC now, you play your non-rival in the other division once in 6 years.

In a group with 2 12 team leagues, you could play an 8 game conference schedule +2 P5 out of conference, meet the 5 teams in your division every year, the 6 teams in the other division every other year and the 12 teams in the other league once in 6 years. Even with one fixed rival, you would play the 6 teams in the other division twice in 5 years.

So you could have a 24 team group and meet the all the other teams as much or more than you do now in the SEC.

5-0-3-2 schedule

12 years x 10= 120 games


5 teams in division X12=60

6 teams in other division X6=36


12 teams in other league X2=24
05-24-2018 10:07 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JRsec Offline
Super Moderator
*

Posts: 16,468
Joined: Mar 2012
Reputation: 909
I Root For: SEC
Location:
Post: #93
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-24-2018 10:07 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(05-23-2018 04:21 AM)XLance Wrote:  Two leagues would allow conferences to be smaller and more regional.
If the P5 divided in half with 32 teams per league (plus Notre Dame on one side) we could go back to 8 team conferences playing in a 16 team division.
More regional play, less travel but still have the opportunity to have premier matchups within a league.

Or you could have 2 groups each with three 12 team leagues or 3 groups each with two 12 team leagues.

In the SEC now, you play your non-rival in the other division once in 6 years.

In a group with 2 12 team leagues, you could play an 8 game conference schedule +2 P5 out of conference, meet the 5 teams in your division every year, the 6 teams in the other division every other year and the 12 teams in the other league once in 6 years. Even with one fixed rival, you would play the 6 teams in the other division twice in 5 years.

So you could have a 24 team group and meet the all the other teams as much or more than you do now in the SEC.

5-0-3-2 schedule

12 years x 10= 120 games


5 teams in division X12=60

6 teams in other division X6=36


12 teams in other league X2=24

If you have that many somewhat regionally compatible schools to schedule from I would argue that you would only have 1 OOC game and that the variety that we all look for in our schedules would be ample enough keep everything else in house.

The problem with OOC games is that you splinter off the revenue from that game.

If Texas stays in basically a Big 12 oriented conference with Oklahoma, Kansas, and other Texas schools but they have access to anyone from the SEC or ACC for scheduling purposes would that not satisfy the alums desire for a better slate of schools to play?

So consider a Texas schedule in which Arkansas, A&M, Oklahoma, Tech, Okie State and Kansas make an annual appearance, and schools like North Carolina, Virginia, Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, etc. rotate in and out somewhat regularly is that not a major coup for UT?

In a two league set up the only thing that really changes is that current conference scheduling politics and restrictions are swept aside. Texas in a division of its key Big 12 schools with former SWC & Big 12 rivals open to them, would still be as powerful as they are today. That one OOC game could then be rotated between U.C.L.A., Michigan, U.S.C., Iowa, etc.

What it does do is save the full cost of at least 1 conference's overhead, and possibly 2. That without getting a raise is still more money. Right now each conference office essentially operates for the cost of 1 full share. Place the best of the Big 12 under an umbrella with the SEC and ACC and the League could have 1 set of offices. The 36 schools under that umbrella could then divide the money not wasted on the costs of 2 sets of conference overhead. And the cost of the league is now divided among many more schools.
05-24-2018 12:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.