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Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
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Post: #61
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(04-25-2018 08:15 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 07:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 03:54 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 03:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'm a a huge fan of legislation to allow conference semi finals. Conferences can go to 18 like JR described and with 3 divisions you can admit a wild card into the playoff.

I doubt that coaches of top teams would want that, because it's one more chance to lose a game against a good opponent, one more chance to fail and miss out on the playoff. Everyone is well aware that no team with 2 losses or more has ever been chosen for the 4-team playoff. A conference champ would have to survive 14 games, not 13, with fewer than 2 losses.

Coaches would greatly prefer an 8-team playoff to a 4-team playoff that includes conference semifinal games.

I think its one of the worst ideas out there. Just means you have more random conference champs instead of teams that earned it over the 8 or 9 game conference schedule. All it does is add another game for the conferences to make money and break up old rivalries by over-expansion.

Think about if there were just 4 major conferences though:

Effectively you would have a 16-team national tournament to crown a winner. The round of 16 is the conference semi-finals. The round of 8 is the conference title games. The Final 4 occurs on New Years at two traditional big bowl sites and includes the champs of the 4 major conferences. The National title game remains as. It's an added game sure, but it also represents a massive revenue source for the conferences and if all the big conferences are playing one then there is no competitive advantage/disadvantage.

The NCAA doesn't have a champs only format in any NCAA sport. ESPN doesn't want it.

And "champion" isn't always clear. You still have tiebreaks. Most notorious was 2008 Big 12 South with 3 11-1 teams. Had Arkansas upset LSU in 2011 in the final game of the season, you would have had #1, #2 and #3 in the nation all at 11-1 in the SEC West.
04-26-2018 10:16 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(04-26-2018 10:16 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 08:15 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 07:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 03:54 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 03:46 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I'm a a huge fan of legislation to allow conference semi finals. Conferences can go to 18 like JR described and with 3 divisions you can admit a wild card into the playoff.

I doubt that coaches of top teams would want that, because it's one more chance to lose a game against a good opponent, one more chance to fail and miss out on the playoff. Everyone is well aware that no team with 2 losses or more has ever been chosen for the 4-team playoff. A conference champ would have to survive 14 games, not 13, with fewer than 2 losses.

Coaches would greatly prefer an 8-team playoff to a 4-team playoff that includes conference semifinal games.

I think its one of the worst ideas out there. Just means you have more random conference champs instead of teams that earned it over the 8 or 9 game conference schedule. All it does is add another game for the conferences to make money and break up old rivalries by over-expansion.

Think about if there were just 4 major conferences though:

Effectively you would have a 16-team national tournament to crown a winner. The round of 16 is the conference semi-finals. The round of 8 is the conference title games. The Final 4 occurs on New Years at two traditional big bowl sites and includes the champs of the 4 major conferences. The National title game remains as. It's an added game sure, but it also represents a massive revenue source for the conferences and if all the big conferences are playing one then there is no competitive advantage/disadvantage.

The NCAA doesn't have a champs only format in any NCAA sport. ESPN doesn't want it.

And "champion" isn't always clear. You still have tiebreaks. Most notorious was 2008 Big 12 South with 3 11-1 teams. Had Arkansas upset LSU in 2011 in the final game of the season, you would have had #1, #2 and #3 in the nation all at 11-1 in the SEC West.

The fact that the networks (in this case, ESPN) don't want champs-only is the key point. The "best team" propaganda is just that. What they REALLY want is the best brands for television. They don't care if UCF was better than Alabama - they only care that Bama has more fans, nationwide. The same for selecting Ohio State over Penn State, TCU and Baylor a few years ago. Choosing the "4 best teams" is a lie - that was NEVER the real goal.
[/ConspiracyTheory]
04-26-2018 11:08 AM
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RocketCitySooner Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(04-26-2018 11:08 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-26-2018 10:16 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 08:15 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 07:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 03:54 PM)Wedge Wrote:  I doubt that coaches of top teams would want that, because it's one more chance to lose a game against a good opponent, one more chance to fail and miss out on the playoff. Everyone is well aware that no team with 2 losses or more has ever been chosen for the 4-team playoff. A conference champ would have to survive 14 games, not 13, with fewer than 2 losses.

Coaches would greatly prefer an 8-team playoff to a 4-team playoff that includes conference semifinal games.

I think its one of the worst ideas out there. Just means you have more random conference champs instead of teams that earned it over the 8 or 9 game conference schedule. All it does is add another game for the conferences to make money and break up old rivalries by over-expansion.

Think about if there were just 4 major conferences though:

Effectively you would have a 16-team national tournament to crown a winner. The round of 16 is the conference semi-finals. The round of 8 is the conference title games. The Final 4 occurs on New Years at two traditional big bowl sites and includes the champs of the 4 major conferences. The National title game remains as. It's an added game sure, but it also represents a massive revenue source for the conferences and if all the big conferences are playing one then there is no competitive advantage/disadvantage.

The NCAA doesn't have a champs only format in any NCAA sport. ESPN doesn't want it.

And "champion" isn't always clear. You still have tiebreaks. Most notorious was 2008 Big 12 South with 3 11-1 teams. Had Arkansas upset LSU in 2011 in the final game of the season, you would have had #1, #2 and #3 in the nation all at 11-1 in the SEC West.

The fact that the networks (in this case, ESPN) don't want champs-only is the key point. The "best team" propaganda is just that. What they REALLY want is the best brands for television. They don't care if UCF was better than Alabama - they only care that Bama has more fans, nationwide. The same for selecting Ohio State over Penn State, TCU and Baylor a few years ago. Choosing the "4 best teams" is a lie - that was NEVER the real goal.
[/ConspiracyTheory]

The whole concept that the championship series produces the "best team" as champion is nothing but propaganda. Often games are won by the second best team. Consequently, the playoffs are nothing but entertainment and how the teams are selected doesn't really matter.
04-26-2018 02:05 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(04-16-2018 08:29 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I believe true conference stability can be measured by what appears in the media and what doesn't.

For example The ACC GOR was signed and announced before it was reported in the media. Swofford and his team have been artful in their use of the media with how and when they release information.

It was almost laughable that sources in Virginia were being quoted as ready to accept an offer to jump to The Big Ten and UVa had already signed The ACC Grant of Rights. This wasn't a expansion loon from some WVU board or parts unknown Minnesota tweeting the imminent move of Virginia but a network affiliate.

JR is correct. If a true plan is in place, and everyone is on the same page, moves will be agreed upon, approved and contracts signed before being announced.

For all we know some of the preliminary work is being done now.
CJ

If the ACC is expanding in football, I think they are talking to:

Notre Dame ( yes and ND is listening)
Texas
Oklahoma
West Virginia
05-16-2018 10:25 AM
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Post: #65
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(04-26-2018 02:05 PM)RocketCitySooner Wrote:  
(04-26-2018 11:08 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-26-2018 10:16 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 08:15 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 07:21 PM)bullet Wrote:  I think its one of the worst ideas out there. Just means you have more random conference champs instead of teams that earned it over the 8 or 9 game conference schedule. All it does is add another game for the conferences to make money and break up old rivalries by over-expansion.

Think about if there were just 4 major conferences though:

Effectively you would have a 16-team national tournament to crown a winner. The round of 16 is the conference semi-finals. The round of 8 is the conference title games. The Final 4 occurs on New Years at two traditional big bowl sites and includes the champs of the 4 major conferences. The National title game remains as. It's an added game sure, but it also represents a massive revenue source for the conferences and if all the big conferences are playing one then there is no competitive advantage/disadvantage.

The NCAA doesn't have a champs only format in any NCAA sport. ESPN doesn't want it.

And "champion" isn't always clear. You still have tiebreaks. Most notorious was 2008 Big 12 South with 3 11-1 teams. Had Arkansas upset LSU in 2011 in the final game of the season, you would have had #1, #2 and #3 in the nation all at 11-1 in the SEC West.

The fact that the networks (in this case, ESPN) don't want champs-only is the key point. The "best team" propaganda is just that. What they REALLY want is the best brands for television. They don't care if UCF was better than Alabama - they only care that Bama has more fans, nationwide. The same for selecting Ohio State over Penn State, TCU and Baylor a few years ago. Choosing the "4 best teams" is a lie - that was NEVER the real goal.
[/ConspiracyTheory]

The whole concept that the championship series produces the "best team" as champion is nothing but propaganda. Often games are won by the second best team. Consequently, the playoffs are nothing but entertainment and how the teams are selected doesn't really matter.

Well it does because it is decided on the field instead of by a bunch of know-nothing sportswriters.

Now if you get too many like college basketball, you reduce the possibility that the "best team" wins. Too few like the BCS and possibly the CFP and the "best team" may not even get to play.
05-16-2018 11:43 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-16-2018 11:43 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-26-2018 02:05 PM)RocketCitySooner Wrote:  
(04-26-2018 11:08 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-26-2018 10:16 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 08:15 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Think about if there were just 4 major conferences though:

Effectively you would have a 16-team national tournament to crown a winner. The round of 16 is the conference semi-finals. The round of 8 is the conference title games. The Final 4 occurs on New Years at two traditional big bowl sites and includes the champs of the 4 major conferences. The National title game remains as. It's an added game sure, but it also represents a massive revenue source for the conferences and if all the big conferences are playing one then there is no competitive advantage/disadvantage.

The NCAA doesn't have a champs only format in any NCAA sport. ESPN doesn't want it.

And "champion" isn't always clear. You still have tiebreaks. Most notorious was 2008 Big 12 South with 3 11-1 teams. Had Arkansas upset LSU in 2011 in the final game of the season, you would have had #1, #2 and #3 in the nation all at 11-1 in the SEC West.

The fact that the networks (in this case, ESPN) don't want champs-only is the key point. The "best team" propaganda is just that. What they REALLY want is the best brands for television. They don't care if UCF was better than Alabama - they only care that Bama has more fans, nationwide. The same for selecting Ohio State over Penn State, TCU and Baylor a few years ago. Choosing the "4 best teams" is a lie - that was NEVER the real goal.
[/ConspiracyTheory]

The whole concept that the championship series produces the "best team" as champion is nothing but propaganda. Often games are won by the second best team. Consequently, the playoffs are nothing but entertainment and how the teams are selected doesn't really matter.

Well it does because it is decided on the field instead of by a bunch of know-nothing sportswriters.

Now if you get too many like college basketball, you reduce the possibility that the "best team" wins. Too few like the BCS and possibly the CFP and the "best team" may not even get to play.

It's ok if the "best team" doesn't win. But, a large part of why a playoff is entertaining is putting the "best" teams in the mix, as opposed to just any teams, which is why March Madness is a much bigger deal than the NIT.

This can't ever be done in CFB because they'll never play 2 CFB games in a week, but one advantage of a large field like March Madness is that every team that could reasonably be thought of as one of the season's 10 or 20 best is in the field. The only arguments about who should or shouldn't be in the field are about teams that are well outside the top 20.
05-16-2018 12:29 PM
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RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-16-2018 10:25 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 08:29 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I believe true conference stability can be measured by what appears in the media and what doesn't.

For example The ACC GOR was signed and announced before it was reported in the media. Swofford and his team have been artful in their use of the media with how and when they release information.

It was almost laughable that sources in Virginia were being quoted as ready to accept an offer to jump to The Big Ten and UVa had already signed The ACC Grant of Rights. This wasn't a expansion loon from some WVU board or parts unknown Minnesota tweeting the imminent move of Virginia but a network affiliate.

JR is correct. If a true plan is in place, and everyone is on the same page, moves will be agreed upon, approved and contracts signed before being announced.

For all we know some of the preliminary work is being done now.
CJ

If the ACC is expanding in football, I think they are talking to:

Notre Dame ( yes and ND is listening)
Texas
Oklahoma
West Virginia

ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).
05-16-2018 03:41 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-16-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 10:25 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 08:29 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I believe true conference stability can be measured by what appears in the media and what doesn't.

For example The ACC GOR was signed and announced before it was reported in the media. Swofford and his team have been artful in their use of the media with how and when they release information.

It was almost laughable that sources in Virginia were being quoted as ready to accept an offer to jump to The Big Ten and UVa had already signed The ACC Grant of Rights. This wasn't a expansion loon from some WVU board or parts unknown Minnesota tweeting the imminent move of Virginia but a network affiliate.

JR is correct. If a true plan is in place, and everyone is on the same page, moves will be agreed upon, approved and contracts signed before being announced.

For all we know some of the preliminary work is being done now.
CJ

If the ACC is expanding in football, I think they are talking to:

Notre Dame ( yes and ND is listening)
Texas
Oklahoma
West Virginia

ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).

Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.
05-17-2018 08:32 AM
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Post: #69
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 10:25 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 08:29 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I believe true conference stability can be measured by what appears in the media and what doesn't.

For example The ACC GOR was signed and announced before it was reported in the media. Swofford and his team have been artful in their use of the media with how and when they release information.

It was almost laughable that sources in Virginia were being quoted as ready to accept an offer to jump to The Big Ten and UVa had already signed The ACC Grant of Rights. This wasn't a expansion loon from some WVU board or parts unknown Minnesota tweeting the imminent move of Virginia but a network affiliate.

JR is correct. If a true plan is in place, and everyone is on the same page, moves will be agreed upon, approved and contracts signed before being announced.

For all we know some of the preliminary work is being done now.
CJ

If the ACC is expanding in football, I think they are talking to:

Notre Dame ( yes and ND is listening)
Texas
Oklahoma
West Virginia

ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).

Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

We are pretty much in agreement here. But there are some snags. I could see any offer by the SEC to include Texas and Oklahoma State along with Oklahoma being met either by a Texas demand for another Texas school, or Texas outright refusing to promote O.S.U. to an equal partner status, even in the SEC. It would in part defeat what Texas might be seeking to include the Pokes.

IMO the only way Texas sees joining the Aggies in the SEC as a positive thing is if it returns them to advantages they once had in the SWC. By being in the same conference with A&M it negates A&M's SEC branding advantage and returns the Horns to a world in which they only really compete with two schools as equals (A&M and OU) and while it adds back Arkansas and gives them L.S.U. it only improves their home schedule as Arkansas and L.S.U. while they recruit Texas don't compete there on equal footing with Texas. It is also my opinion that Texas wouldn't mind using the "SEC can only take two" scenario to once again distance themselves in the public's eyes from Tech, Baylor and T.C.U. If they move to the SEC it will be about establishing brand dominance again. And I'm not talking about their obvious brand dominance in making money, but rather their trajectory in recruiting and on field performance.
05-17-2018 11:12 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-17-2018 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 10:25 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 08:29 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I believe true conference stability can be measured by what appears in the media and what doesn't.

For example The ACC GOR was signed and announced before it was reported in the media. Swofford and his team have been artful in their use of the media with how and when they release information.

It was almost laughable that sources in Virginia were being quoted as ready to accept an offer to jump to The Big Ten and UVa had already signed The ACC Grant of Rights. This wasn't a expansion loon from some WVU board or parts unknown Minnesota tweeting the imminent move of Virginia but a network affiliate.

JR is correct. If a true plan is in place, and everyone is on the same page, moves will be agreed upon, approved and contracts signed before being announced.

For all we know some of the preliminary work is being done now.
CJ

If the ACC is expanding in football, I think they are talking to:

Notre Dame ( yes and ND is listening)
Texas
Oklahoma
West Virginia

ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).

Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

We are pretty much in agreement here. But there are some snags. I could see any offer by the SEC to include Texas and Oklahoma State along with Oklahoma being met either by a Texas demand for another Texas school, or Texas outright refusing to promote O.S.U. to an equal partner status, even in the SEC. It would in part defeat what Texas might be seeking to include the Pokes.

IMO the only way Texas sees joining the Aggies in the SEC as a positive thing is if it returns them to advantages they once had in the SWC. By being in the same conference with A&M it negates A&M's SEC branding advantage and returns the Horns to a world in which they only really compete with two schools as equals (A&M and OU) and while it adds back Arkansas and gives them L.S.U. it only improves their home schedule as Arkansas and L.S.U. while they recruit Texas don't compete there on equal footing with Texas. It is also my opinion that Texas wouldn't mind using the "SEC can only take two" scenario to once again distance themselves in the public's eyes from Tech, Baylor and T.C.U. If they move to the SEC it will be about establishing brand dominance again. And I'm not talking about their obvious brand dominance in making money, but rather their trajectory in recruiting and on field performance.

For Texas, it would be very difficult ego-wise to give de facto acknowledgement that A&M does indeed have a branding advantage right now.
05-17-2018 04:02 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-17-2018 04:02 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 10:25 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  If the ACC is expanding in football, I think they are talking to:

Notre Dame ( yes and ND is listening)
Texas
Oklahoma
West Virginia

ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).

Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

We are pretty much in agreement here. But there are some snags. I could see any offer by the SEC to include Texas and Oklahoma State along with Oklahoma being met either by a Texas demand for another Texas school, or Texas outright refusing to promote O.S.U. to an equal partner status, even in the SEC. It would in part defeat what Texas might be seeking to include the Pokes.

IMO the only way Texas sees joining the Aggies in the SEC as a positive thing is if it returns them to advantages they once had in the SWC. By being in the same conference with A&M it negates A&M's SEC branding advantage and returns the Horns to a world in which they only really compete with two schools as equals (A&M and OU) and while it adds back Arkansas and gives them L.S.U. it only improves their home schedule as Arkansas and L.S.U. while they recruit Texas don't compete there on equal footing with Texas. It is also my opinion that Texas wouldn't mind using the "SEC can only take two" scenario to once again distance themselves in the public's eyes from Tech, Baylor and T.C.U. If they move to the SEC it will be about establishing brand dominance again. And I'm not talking about their obvious brand dominance in making money, but rather their trajectory in recruiting and on field performance.

For Texas, it would be very difficult ego-wise to give de facto acknowledgement that A&M does indeed have a branding advantage right now.

Well that is why I wouldn't be surprised if Texas considered the SEC it would be with another Texas school, perhaps Tech. That way they could claim that they were making the move that benefited one that would have been left behind otherwise. They would have an excuse if they made such a move.
05-17-2018 04:15 PM
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ken d Offline
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RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-17-2018 04:15 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 04:02 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).

Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

We are pretty much in agreement here. But there are some snags. I could see any offer by the SEC to include Texas and Oklahoma State along with Oklahoma being met either by a Texas demand for another Texas school, or Texas outright refusing to promote O.S.U. to an equal partner status, even in the SEC. It would in part defeat what Texas might be seeking to include the Pokes.

IMO the only way Texas sees joining the Aggies in the SEC as a positive thing is if it returns them to advantages they once had in the SWC. By being in the same conference with A&M it negates A&M's SEC branding advantage and returns the Horns to a world in which they only really compete with two schools as equals (A&M and OU) and while it adds back Arkansas and gives them L.S.U. it only improves their home schedule as Arkansas and L.S.U. while they recruit Texas don't compete there on equal footing with Texas. It is also my opinion that Texas wouldn't mind using the "SEC can only take two" scenario to once again distance themselves in the public's eyes from Tech, Baylor and T.C.U. If they move to the SEC it will be about establishing brand dominance again. And I'm not talking about their obvious brand dominance in making money, but rather their trajectory in recruiting and on field performance.

For Texas, it would be very difficult ego-wise to give de facto acknowledgement that A&M does indeed have a branding advantage right now.

Well that is why I wouldn't be surprised if Texas considered the SEC it would be with another Texas school, perhaps Tech. That way they could claim that they were making the move that benefited one that would have been left behind otherwise. They would have an excuse if they made such a move.

I agree. I believe an SEC division that included Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, LSU, Arkansas, Missouri and Mississippi St would pretty much meet all the needs of both Texas and Oklahoma.

That's a realignment move the B1G simply can't match.
05-19-2018 07:31 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
An SEC with the Texlahoma 4 would demand crazy tv dollars. I'm not sure that there's 4 programs out there that the Big Ten could add to match that--even the 4 CA schools.
05-19-2018 07:58 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #74
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 10:25 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 08:29 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I believe true conference stability can be measured by what appears in the media and what doesn't.

For example The ACC GOR was signed and announced before it was reported in the media. Swofford and his team have been artful in their use of the media with how and when they release information.

It was almost laughable that sources in Virginia were being quoted as ready to accept an offer to jump to The Big Ten and UVa had already signed The ACC Grant of Rights. This wasn't a expansion loon from some WVU board or parts unknown Minnesota tweeting the imminent move of Virginia but a network affiliate.

JR is correct. If a true plan is in place, and everyone is on the same page, moves will be agreed upon, approved and contracts signed before being announced.

For all we know some of the preliminary work is being done now.
CJ

If the ACC is expanding in football, I think they are talking to:

Notre Dame ( yes and ND is listening)
Texas
Oklahoma
West Virginia

ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).

Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

Texas like Notre Dame needs the flexibility to be themselves. Because there are no ideal situations for various reasons in any conference as a full member, the Longhorns will eventually accept a partial in the ACC to achieve Notre Dame status.
I think one Texas school (most likely TCU) joins the ACC in full to give the 'Horns a travel partner.
05-19-2018 09:10 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-19-2018 09:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 10:25 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 08:29 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  I believe true conference stability can be measured by what appears in the media and what doesn't.

For example The ACC GOR was signed and announced before it was reported in the media. Swofford and his team have been artful in their use of the media with how and when they release information.

It was almost laughable that sources in Virginia were being quoted as ready to accept an offer to jump to The Big Ten and UVa had already signed The ACC Grant of Rights. This wasn't a expansion loon from some WVU board or parts unknown Minnesota tweeting the imminent move of Virginia but a network affiliate.

JR is correct. If a true plan is in place, and everyone is on the same page, moves will be agreed upon, approved and contracts signed before being announced.

For all we know some of the preliminary work is being done now.
CJ

If the ACC is expanding in football, I think they are talking to:

Notre Dame ( yes and ND is listening)
Texas
Oklahoma
West Virginia

ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).

Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

Texas like Notre Dame needs the flexibility to be themselves. Because there are no ideal situations for various reasons in any conference as a full member, the Longhorns will eventually accept a partial in the ACC to achieve Notre Dame status.
I think one Texas school (most likely TCU) joins the ACC in full to give the 'Horns a travel partner.

You dream sir! There's nothing in the ACC that Texas would care about, including Notre Dame. Dodds and Swarbrick were somewhat close. Other than that nobody at UT gets out of bed every morning pining to play anyone in the ACC.
05-19-2018 10:17 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #76
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-19-2018 10:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 09:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 10:25 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  If the ACC is expanding in football, I think they are talking to:

Notre Dame ( yes and ND is listening)
Texas
Oklahoma
West Virginia

ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).

Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

Texas like Notre Dame needs the flexibility to be themselves. Because there are no ideal situations for various reasons in any conference as a full member, the Longhorns will eventually accept a partial in the ACC to achieve Notre Dame status.
I think one Texas school (most likely TCU) joins the ACC in full to give the 'Horns a travel partner.

You dream sir! There's nothing in the ACC that Texas would care about, including Notre Dame. Dodds and Swarbrick were somewhat close. Other than that nobody at UT gets out of bed every morning pining to play anyone in the ACC.

It's a move that ESPN would encourage to help preserve the ACC for the long term.
In that regard, Notre Dame would encourage it too.

If anything happens to the ACC, the most likely movement would be Carolina and Georgia Tech moving to the B1G. Sure the SEC could swoop in an take Florida State and Clemson or NC State and Va. Tech but the real damage would have been done to ESPN. It would give the B1G control of the east coast population centers (with the exception of Florida) and then they could and would patiently wait on the 'gators.
05-19-2018 11:52 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-19-2018 11:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 09:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-16-2018 03:41 PM)XLance Wrote:  ESPN would probably be happy with those 4 being the additions to the ACC (Texas and Notre Dame) and the SEC (Oklahoma and West Virginia).

Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

Texas like Notre Dame needs the flexibility to be themselves. Because there are no ideal situations for various reasons in any conference as a full member, the Longhorns will eventually accept a partial in the ACC to achieve Notre Dame status.
I think one Texas school (most likely TCU) joins the ACC in full to give the 'Horns a travel partner.

You dream sir! There's nothing in the ACC that Texas would care about, including Notre Dame. Dodds and Swarbrick were somewhat close. Other than that nobody at UT gets out of bed every morning pining to play anyone in the ACC.

It's a move that ESPN would encourage to help preserve the ACC for the long term.
In that regard, Notre Dame would encourage it too.

If anything happens to the ACC, the most likely movement would be Carolina and Georgia Tech moving to the B1G. Sure the SEC could swoop in an take Florida State and Clemson or NC State and Va. Tech but the real damage would have been done to ESPN. It would give the B1G control of the east coast population centers (with the exception of Florida) and then they could and would patiently wait on the 'gators.

ESPN already preserved the ACC a while back. Nobody is going to leave for the B1G that the ACC would mind losing. And ESPN gains nothing by moving properties it already has from the ACC to the SEC. All they need to do is acquire the Texahoma Four for the SEC and it's game over. The B1G and/or Fox can't hurt them.
05-19-2018 12:31 PM
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XLance Online
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Post: #78
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-19-2018 12:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 11:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 09:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-17-2018 08:32 AM)ken d Wrote:  Notre Dame may be listening, but they are saying "no". They don't want to be in any football conference.

Texas would be listening, and they also would be saying "no". Texas needs to be in a regional conference, and would prefer that the region consist of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

Oklahoma would say yes to the SEC only if either Texas or Oklahoma State were the other add. They would be happier if both those schools were included.

Neither the SEC nor the ACC would be talking to West Virginia. If they are answering WVU's calls, it's only to be polite.

Texas like Notre Dame needs the flexibility to be themselves. Because there are no ideal situations for various reasons in any conference as a full member, the Longhorns will eventually accept a partial in the ACC to achieve Notre Dame status.
I think one Texas school (most likely TCU) joins the ACC in full to give the 'Horns a travel partner.

You dream sir! There's nothing in the ACC that Texas would care about, including Notre Dame. Dodds and Swarbrick were somewhat close. Other than that nobody at UT gets out of bed every morning pining to play anyone in the ACC.

It's a move that ESPN would encourage to help preserve the ACC for the long term.
In that regard, Notre Dame would encourage it too.

If anything happens to the ACC, the most likely movement would be Carolina and Georgia Tech moving to the B1G. Sure the SEC could swoop in an take Florida State and Clemson or NC State and Va. Tech but the real damage would have been done to ESPN. It would give the B1G control of the east coast population centers (with the exception of Florida) and then they could and would patiently wait on the 'gators.

ESPN already preserved the ACC a while back. Nobody is going to leave for the B1G that the ACC would mind losing. And ESPN gains nothing by moving properties it already has from the ACC to the SEC. All they need to do is acquire the Texahoma Four for the SEC and it's game over. The B1G and/or Fox can't hurt them.

My point exactly!
No conference is moving to 18. So the idea that the Texahoma 4 would move to the SEC is moot. Duke has already put the kibosh on Oklahoma, so the sooners nor the Cowboys will be moving to the ACC. You have already suggested that West Virginia won't be going to the ACC or the SEC so it's necessary to park Texas (and as you suggest Texas Tech) somewhere in an ESPN conference. So if Oklahoma and Oklahoma State do indeed move to the SEC, then Texas and a friend logically would land in the ACC. I'm just suggesting that it would be in a Notre Dame style partial membership so that Texas could maintain a Texas centric schedule with OOC flexibility.
05-19-2018 02:42 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
(05-19-2018 02:42 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 12:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 11:52 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 10:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(05-19-2018 09:10 AM)XLance Wrote:  Texas like Notre Dame needs the flexibility to be themselves. Because there are no ideal situations for various reasons in any conference as a full member, the Longhorns will eventually accept a partial in the ACC to achieve Notre Dame status.
I think one Texas school (most likely TCU) joins the ACC in full to give the 'Horns a travel partner.

You dream sir! There's nothing in the ACC that Texas would care about, including Notre Dame. Dodds and Swarbrick were somewhat close. Other than that nobody at UT gets out of bed every morning pining to play anyone in the ACC.

It's a move that ESPN would encourage to help preserve the ACC for the long term.
In that regard, Notre Dame would encourage it too.

If anything happens to the ACC, the most likely movement would be Carolina and Georgia Tech moving to the B1G. Sure the SEC could swoop in an take Florida State and Clemson or NC State and Va. Tech but the real damage would have been done to ESPN. It would give the B1G control of the east coast population centers (with the exception of Florida) and then they could and would patiently wait on the 'gators.

ESPN already preserved the ACC a while back. Nobody is going to leave for the B1G that the ACC would mind losing. And ESPN gains nothing by moving properties it already has from the ACC to the SEC. All they need to do is acquire the Texahoma Four for the SEC and it's game over. The B1G and/or Fox can't hurt them.

My point exactly!
No conference is moving to 18. So the idea that the Texahoma 4 would move to the SEC is moot. Duke has already put the kibosh on Oklahoma, so the sooners nor the Cowboys will be moving to the ACC. You have already suggested that West Virginia won't be going to the ACC or the SEC so it's necessary to park Texas (and as you suggest Texas Tech) somewhere in an ESPN conference. So if Oklahoma and Oklahoma State do indeed move to the SEC, then Texas and a friend logically would land in the ACC. I'm just suggesting that it would be in a Notre Dame style partial membership so that Texas could maintain a Texas centric schedule with OOC flexibility.

I'm not sure what that point is. I just disagree that no conference would move to 18. I believe that the SEC would do that with Texahoma in a heartbeat.

And I think ESPN wouldn't much care what happens to West Virginia or the rest of the B12. I would anticipate that they would take 6 schools from the AAC and hope that gets them a respectable media contract (maybe 30-40% of what they get now) and a seat in the NY6. Whether they get that deal from Fox or ESPN or a combination of the two doesn't make much difference.
05-19-2018 04:13 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Why You Won't Hear Rumors or Leaks When the Next Realignment Event Happens:
And perhaps a CA 4 to the Big 10.
South Cal, USC, Stanford, UCLA
North Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota
East Penn ST., Rutgers, Maryland, Indiana, Purdue
West Ohio St., Michigan, Michigan St., Illinois, Northwestern.

Rotate NE/SW two years with NW/SE for two years.
05-19-2018 07:57 PM
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