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KSU93 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Spring football
Football is finally not a major drain on athletics. Soon it will be D2 and then we can support it
04-25-2018 02:46 PM
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BuckeyeFlyerFlash Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Spring football
article was interesting and KSU93 maybe just the opposite of football going to FCS? need to stay FBS for all the big $$" whoopings" by P5 teams to fund Athletic department....did you take that away from the article too?
04-25-2018 03:43 PM
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cschierh Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Spring football
Even with the payday games, football bleeds money. It does not support Orner sports. One of the great myths of college athletics.

Even most power 5 schools lose money on football.
04-26-2018 01:05 AM
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MAC tOAMU Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Spring football
Really interesting to hear Millin's take on the scheduling angle. Look at 2012 for instance. The most successful season in 40 years. OOC games:

Towson
Kentucky
Army
Rutgers


When you start a season with zero chance for success, how do you keep the guys engaged and excited? I think we've all seen how that has translated over the last few seasons after playing multiple high end, National Championship contending teams to start the season. It offers no chance of success.......
04-26-2018 09:21 AM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Spring football
The last figures I saw showed that only a couple dozen or so football programs operated at a profit. Most do lose money. It seems to me that the only people who profit are the athletic directors and head coaches. I see a day coming when escalating salaries of head football and basketball coaches will cause plenty of schools to start dropping lots of sports are go really small time.
04-26-2018 02:06 PM
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BuckeyeFlyerFlash Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Spring football
Good points guys.... I think what would be interesting data is the net cost of a FCS football program vs net cost of a FBS program ( say YSU vs KSU?). I must say I assumed the large paydays allowed KSU to cover more of the football expenses (even as a net loss). Seems to be three paths- remain FBS and work to improve (Joel get out there and shake some alumni +corp donors.../ drop to FCS in football (then probably have to look for new home for all other sports / drop down to Pioneer league (think Dayton) and still find another league for all other sports??
04-26-2018 08:45 PM
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goldenflash99 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Spring football
(04-26-2018 08:45 PM)BuckeyeFlyerFlash Wrote:  Good points guys.... I think what would be interesting data is the net cost of a FCS football program vs net cost of a FBS program ( say YSU vs KSU?). I must say I assumed the large paydays allowed KSU to cover more of the football expenses (even as a net loss). Seems to be three paths- remain FBS and work to improve (Joel get out there and shake some alumni +corp donors.../ drop to FCS in football (then probably have to look for new home for all other sports / drop down to Pioneer league (think Dayton) and still find another league for all other sports??

This is nonsense. We are not dropping down a level. Not only would we lose the money from guarantee games but we'd be saying goodbye to almost $1 million a year from the MAC/ESPN TV contract.
04-27-2018 06:42 AM
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BuckeyeFlyerFlash Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Spring football
(04-27-2018 06:42 AM)goldenflash99 Wrote:  
(04-26-2018 08:45 PM)BuckeyeFlyerFlash Wrote:  Good points guys.... I think what would be interesting data is the net cost of a FCS football program vs net cost of a FBS program ( say YSU vs KSU?). I must say I assumed the large paydays allowed KSU to cover more of the football expenses (even as a net loss). Seems to be three paths- remain FBS and work to improve (Joel get out there and shake some alumni +corp donors.../ drop to FCS in football (then probably have to look for new home for all other sports / drop down to Pioneer league (think Dayton) and still find another league for all other sports??

This is nonsense. We are not dropping down a level. Not only would we lose the money from guarantee games but we'd be saying goodbye to almost $1 million a year from the MAC/ESPN TV contract.

GFlash99- I am not a proponent of dropping down either...FYI- It was just my observation of three paths....I want Joel to FIX it...
04-29-2018 04:24 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Spring football
I think it is safe to say at this point most everyone loves our new coach and where it appears we are headed. Obviously, I wouldn't expect miracles in year 1, but it doesn't have to take 3-4 years.
04-29-2018 06:26 PM
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KSU93 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Spring football
(04-27-2018 06:42 AM)goldenflash99 Wrote:  
(04-26-2018 08:45 PM)BuckeyeFlyerFlash Wrote:  Good points guys.... I think what would be interesting data is the net cost of a FCS football program vs net cost of a FBS program ( say YSU vs KSU?). I must say I assumed the large paydays allowed KSU to cover more of the football expenses (even as a net loss). Seems to be three paths- remain FBS and work to improve (Joel get out there and shake some alumni +corp donors.../ drop to FCS in football (then probably have to look for new home for all other sports / drop down to Pioneer league (think Dayton) and still find another league for all other sports??

This is nonsense. We are not dropping down a level. Not only would we lose the money from guarantee games but we'd be saying goodbye to almost $1 million a year from the MAC/ESPN TV contract.

We lose money every year. It’s a drain on athletics monetarily, academically and it hurts our school’s image. Sure the big payouts help but it’s still a loss. The year we had an easy early season schedule and made it to the top 20? Still a loss. Now we have a coach that’s 30 years old and runs around on the side line trying to be PJ Fleck. I hope it works out but don’t hold your breath.
04-30-2018 09:34 PM
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ilovegymnast Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Spring football
How is the football team hurting the university academically?
05-01-2018 01:31 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Spring football
Good question, ilovegymnast!
05-02-2018 08:45 AM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Spring football
I assume it means that the money used for the football program would be used for academic programs instead.
05-02-2018 09:12 AM
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cschierh Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Spring football
This is descriptive, not a judgment. Straight reporting.

Football, men's and women's basketball, volleyball and gymnastics are all full scholarship sports. That's room, board, tuition and, as of a couple of years ago, "cost of attendance," which adds $3,000+ more.

That's about 200 athletes at full-ride plus.

Before I retired, I did much of the recruiting of high-ability journalism students, so I knew where the academic scholarships were.

I don't think there are a total of 200 full-ride scholarships for academic ability on campus. Cartwright started something called Founders Scholarships that were tuition, room and board. But that was scaled it back to tuition only.

So the No. 18 recruit in the football freshman class -- maybe someone who will never rise above third string -- gets more money than the absolute best student in the university.

The university probably spends at least five times the amount of money per student-athlete on academic support (advising, tutors, study facilities) than it spends on the average student. Those folks run s a good operation.

80 percent of the athletic budget comes from student fees.

The university could, if it chose, drop that fee and add another to shift that money to academic scholarships and general academic support. That would, of course, take us down to Division 3 (think Mount Union or Hiram).

Most major universities have made the decision that sports is such an important part of the total college experience (administrators use almost those exact words) that the money is well spent.

I'm not saying that's a bad argument. I very much enjoy college athletics and have come to know and admire a lot of athletes I've covered and taught.

But clearly, universities (this is far more than a Kent State decision) have decided that scholarship for the third-string tackle is more important to the university than one for a top student in chemistry or nursing or journalism.

That's the argument that money for the football team "is a drain on" academics.
(This post was last modified: 05-02-2018 08:59 PM by cschierh.)
05-02-2018 08:56 PM
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Muskrat Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Spring football
Thanks, cschierh. Good points.
05-03-2018 12:38 PM
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ilovegymnast Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Spring football
I understand that argument but it also implies that the athletes themselves wouldn't receive academic scholarships. Year after year the athletics department have posted higher cumulative GPA's. With students on all of those teams earning a right to be on the All MAC academic team if not on Academic All American team. Both of which only account for students that played in at least 50% of the season so there could be more than get highlighted.

http://kentstatesports.com/news/2018/4/1...onors.aspx
http://kentstatesports.com/news/2017/12/...-team.aspx
http://kentstatesports.com/news/2017/12/...-team.aspx

"Academic Excellence
This year, once again, brought many record-breaking academic numbers to the Department of Intercollegiate
Athletics. For the 12th consecutive semester we have had a term GPA above a 3.0, with 65% of our student-athletes
above a 3.0 and 47% above a 3.4. In addition to GPA, student-athletes graduated at a record high rate
this year. In the spring, 78 student-athletes graced the graduation stage. Our athletic teams also continued to
excel in the NCAA annual graduation rates. KSU student-athletes outperformed the general student body by
16 percent, with four teams calculating a 100% graduation success rate (GSR) and 12 teams that either maintained
or improved their GSR from one year before. Our overall student-athlete GSR rate continues to increase
and stands at 86% (a 3% increase from last year). KSU teams continued to excel in the Academic Progress Rate
(APR) as well. Five teams (women’s basketball, women’s golf, gymnastics, women’s cross country and volleyball)
all received NCAA accolades for perfect multi-year scores of 1,000."

http://kentstatesports.com/documents/201...or_web.pdf

I think there should be more academic scholarships but I also think that education should be "free" on all levels. Without any special course fees the cost of attendance sits at $22k/year. Being in debt over $100k at the age of 22 is going to be impossible to sustain as a society.
05-03-2018 01:52 PM
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thanksjim Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Spring football
(05-02-2018 08:56 PM)cschierh Wrote:  This is descriptive, not a judgment. Straight reporting.

Football, men's and women's basketball, volleyball and gymnastics are all full scholarship sports. That's room, board, tuition and, as of a couple of years ago, "cost of attendance," which adds $3,000+ more.

That's about 200 athletes at full-ride plus.

Before I retired, I did much of the recruiting of high-ability journalism students, so I knew where the academic scholarships were.

I don't think there are a total of 200 full-ride scholarships for academic ability on campus. Cartwright started something called Founders Scholarships that were tuition, room and board. But that was scaled it back to tuition only.

So the No. 18 recruit in the football freshman class -- maybe someone who will never rise above third string -- gets more money than the absolute best student in the university.

The university probably spends at least five times the amount of money per student-athlete on academic support (advising, tutors, study facilities) than it spends on the average student. Those folks run s a good operation.

80 percent of the athletic budget comes from student fees.

The university could, if it chose, drop that fee and add another to shift that money to academic scholarships and general academic support. That would, of course, take us down to Division 3 (think Mount Union or Hiram).

Most major universities have made the decision that sports is such an important part of the total college experience (administrators use almost those exact words) that the money is well spent.

I'm not saying that's a bad argument. I very much enjoy college athletics and have come to know and admire a lot of athletes I've covered and taught.

But clearly, universities (this is far more than a Kent State decision) have decided that scholarship for the third-string tackle is more important to the university than one for a top student in chemistry or nursing or journalism.

That's the argument that money for the football team "is a drain on" academics.

Now what if that 3rd string tackle is a top chemistry student 07-coffee3
05-03-2018 04:13 PM
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cschierh Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Spring football
Then he could get a scholarship no matter what. But the way things are, it would be almost impossible for him to get a full ride as a chemistry major, no matter how good he is.

I’m sure not saying that many athletes aren’t good students. It’s one reason I like covering women’s basketball. In general, they’re real student-athletes. Jordan Korinek and Larissa Lurken were great students. Alexa Golden graduated in two and a half years.

But the values of large universities these days dictate that it’s far more likely a great volleyball setter who’s a B student will get a major scholarship than a great reporter or fashion designer or biology teacher who’s an A student.
05-03-2018 08:55 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Spring football
Looks like the Falcons are bringing Cunningham to camp. Haven't seen any other Kent players mentioned yet. I figure Monday, Holley, and maybe Foster are the most likely to get a shot.
05-04-2018 04:24 PM
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