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Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #61
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
Cable boxes don't just decode the signal and put it on your TV. They also transmit back what channels are being viewed. Comcast has a good idea exactly how many people watch BTN ever and how many watch regularly.
04-15-2018 01:44 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #62
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-15-2018 01:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Cable boxes don't just decode the signal and put it on your TV. They also transmit back what channels are being viewed. Comcast has a good idea exactly how many people watch BTN ever and how many watch regularly.

Exactly. They know what they are doing - this is a calculated decision.
04-15-2018 03:55 PM
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Post: #63
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-15-2018 03:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 01:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Cable boxes don't just decode the signal and put it on your TV. They also transmit back what channels are being viewed. Comcast has a good idea exactly how many people watch BTN ever and how many watch regularly.

Exactly. They know what they are doing - this is a calculated decision.

This would be news to the Neilsen corporation...

Comcast is making an informed bet, but not one with perfect information and we'll see who blinks.
04-15-2018 05:45 PM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #64
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-15-2018 05:45 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 03:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 01:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Cable boxes don't just decode the signal and put it on your TV. They also transmit back what channels are being viewed. Comcast has a good idea exactly how many people watch BTN ever and how many watch regularly.

Exactly. They know what they are doing - this is a calculated decision.

This would be news to the Neilsen corporation...

Comcast is making an informed bet, but not one with perfect information and we'll see who blinks.

One of the local stations subscribes to a service that gathers data from Comcast boxes and satellite boxes in real time. A local news guy was "retired" according to a friend at the station because they could see in real time people changing channels when the guy came on the screen.

Comcast knows what is watched and what isn't. They had "We have the SEC Network" billboards up in Little Rock almost as soon as the deal was signed.
04-15-2018 08:15 PM
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bgwisc Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-15-2018 08:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 05:45 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 03:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 01:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Cable boxes don't just decode the signal and put it on your TV. They also transmit back what channels are being viewed. Comcast has a good idea exactly how many people watch BTN ever and how many watch regularly.

Exactly. They know what they are doing - this is a calculated decision.

This would be news to the Neilsen corporation...

Comcast is making an informed bet, but not one with perfect information and we'll see who blinks.

One of the local stations subscribes to a service that gathers data from Comcast boxes and satellite boxes in real time. A local news guy was "retired" according to a friend at the station because they could see in real time people changing channels when the guy came on the screen.

Comcast knows what is watched and what isn't. They had "We have the SEC Network" billboards up in Little Rock almost as soon as the deal was signed.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/features/niel...202027752/

I won't belabor the point but cable companies do not know what you are watching. At best, some boxes might tell them when you change channels or take specific actions but how many of you leave the box on and turn off the tv? How many people are in the room watching (if anyone)?

This is a complicated problem but the continued existence of the Nielsen Corporation speaks to the fact that cable companies don't know what we watch.

So again, Comcast is making an educated guess and they certainly aren't operating on perfect information. We'll see how it works and the long term ramifications for all the league owned networks. Given that BTN is still owned by Fox and they can bundle their channels, I'd guess that this battle is far from over.
04-16-2018 07:47 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-16-2018 07:47 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 08:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 05:45 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 03:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 01:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Cable boxes don't just decode the signal and put it on your TV. They also transmit back what channels are being viewed. Comcast has a good idea exactly how many people watch BTN ever and how many watch regularly.

Exactly. They know what they are doing - this is a calculated decision.

This would be news to the Neilsen corporation...

Comcast is making an informed bet, but not one with perfect information and we'll see who blinks.

One of the local stations subscribes to a service that gathers data from Comcast boxes and satellite boxes in real time. A local news guy was "retired" according to a friend at the station because they could see in real time people changing channels when the guy came on the screen.

Comcast knows what is watched and what isn't. They had "We have the SEC Network" billboards up in Little Rock almost as soon as the deal was signed.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/features/niel...202027752/

I won't belabor the point but cable companies do not know what you are watching. At best, some boxes might tell them when you change channels or take specific actions but how many of you leave the box on and turn off the tv? How many people are in the room watching (if anyone)?

This is a complicated problem but the continued existence of the Nielsen Corporation speaks to the fact that cable companies don't know what we watch.

So again, Comcast is making an educated guess and they certainly aren't operating on perfect information. We'll see how it works and the long term ramifications for all the league owned networks. Given that BTN is still owned by Fox and they can bundle their channels, I'd guess that this battle is far from over.

Neilsen pays you to fill out a diary. You answer the questions they give you.

*Mine was a paid Neisen household for a couple of years. Quick easy way to make $10 here and there. They would mail me the crispest bills I've ever seen or felt lol..
04-16-2018 08:49 PM
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-16-2018 08:49 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 07:47 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 08:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 05:45 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 03:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Exactly. They know what they are doing - this is a calculated decision.

This would be news to the Neilsen corporation...

Comcast is making an informed bet, but not one with perfect information and we'll see who blinks.

One of the local stations subscribes to a service that gathers data from Comcast boxes and satellite boxes in real time. A local news guy was "retired" according to a friend at the station because they could see in real time people changing channels when the guy came on the screen.

Comcast knows what is watched and what isn't. They had "We have the SEC Network" billboards up in Little Rock almost as soon as the deal was signed.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/features/niel...202027752/

I won't belabor the point but cable companies do not know what you are watching. At best, some boxes might tell them when you change channels or take specific actions but how many of you leave the box on and turn off the tv? How many people are in the room watching (if anyone)?

This is a complicated problem but the continued existence of the Nielsen Corporation speaks to the fact that cable companies don't know what we watch.

So again, Comcast is making an educated guess and they certainly aren't operating on perfect information. We'll see how it works and the long term ramifications for all the league owned networks. Given that BTN is still owned by Fox and they can bundle their channels, I'd guess that this battle is far from over.

Neilsen pays you to fill out a diary. You answer the questions they give you.

*Mine was a paid Neisen household for a couple of years. Quick easy way to make $10 here and there. They would mail me the crispest bills I've ever seen or felt lol..

You got Nielsen dollars too?

Those things were fresh off the press
04-16-2018 09:53 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #68
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-16-2018 07:47 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 08:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 05:45 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 03:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 01:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Cable boxes don't just decode the signal and put it on your TV. They also transmit back what channels are being viewed. Comcast has a good idea exactly how many people watch BTN ever and how many watch regularly.

Exactly. They know what they are doing - this is a calculated decision.

This would be news to the Neilsen corporation...

Comcast is making an informed bet, but not one with perfect information and we'll see who blinks.

One of the local stations subscribes to a service that gathers data from Comcast boxes and satellite boxes in real time. A local news guy was "retired" according to a friend at the station because they could see in real time people changing channels when the guy came on the screen.

Comcast knows what is watched and what isn't. They had "We have the SEC Network" billboards up in Little Rock almost as soon as the deal was signed.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/features/niel...202027752/

I won't belabor the point but cable companies do not know what you are watching. At best, some boxes might tell them when you change channels or take specific actions but how many of you leave the box on and turn off the tv? How many people are in the room watching (if anyone)?

This is a complicated problem but the continued existence of the Nielsen Corporation speaks to the fact that cable companies don't know what we watch.

So again, Comcast is making an educated guess and they certainly aren't operating on perfect information. We'll see how it works and the long term ramifications for all the league owned networks. Given that BTN is still owned by Fox and they can bundle their channels, I'd guess that this battle is far from over.

Good point - each technology has its own capabilities and limitations. Internet-based systems like SlingTV would need to be able to know what the TV is tuned to at all times because they must know what to stream to the customer. Analog cable doesn't "need" to know (all channels are transmitted simultaneously), but certainly "could" know. However, as you point out, at best they can only tell what channel the device is set to - never how many people are watching.
04-17-2018 01:48 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-16-2018 09:53 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 08:49 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 07:47 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 08:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 05:45 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  This would be news to the Neilsen corporation...

Comcast is making an informed bet, but not one with perfect information and we'll see who blinks.

One of the local stations subscribes to a service that gathers data from Comcast boxes and satellite boxes in real time. A local news guy was "retired" according to a friend at the station because they could see in real time people changing channels when the guy came on the screen.

Comcast knows what is watched and what isn't. They had "We have the SEC Network" billboards up in Little Rock almost as soon as the deal was signed.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/features/niel...202027752/

I won't belabor the point but cable companies do not know what you are watching. At best, some boxes might tell them when you change channels or take specific actions but how many of you leave the box on and turn off the tv? How many people are in the room watching (if anyone)?

This is a complicated problem but the continued existence of the Nielsen Corporation speaks to the fact that cable companies don't know what we watch.

So again, Comcast is making an educated guess and they certainly aren't operating on perfect information. We'll see how it works and the long term ramifications for all the league owned networks. Given that BTN is still owned by Fox and they can bundle their channels, I'd guess that this battle is far from over.

Neilsen pays you to fill out a diary. You answer the questions they give you.

*Mine was a paid Neisen household for a couple of years. Quick easy way to make $10 here and there. They would mail me the crispest bills I've ever seen or felt lol..

You got Nielsen dollars too?

Those things were fresh off the press

Yes! The hottest, freshest, newest hot stinky cash I’ve ever seen!!!
04-17-2018 09:11 AM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #70
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-16-2018 07:47 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 08:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 05:45 PM)bgwisc Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 03:55 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-15-2018 01:44 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Cable boxes don't just decode the signal and put it on your TV. They also transmit back what channels are being viewed. Comcast has a good idea exactly how many people watch BTN ever and how many watch regularly.

Exactly. They know what they are doing - this is a calculated decision.

This would be news to the Neilsen corporation...

Comcast is making an informed bet, but not one with perfect information and we'll see who blinks.

One of the local stations subscribes to a service that gathers data from Comcast boxes and satellite boxes in real time. A local news guy was "retired" according to a friend at the station because they could see in real time people changing channels when the guy came on the screen.

Comcast knows what is watched and what isn't. They had "We have the SEC Network" billboards up in Little Rock almost as soon as the deal was signed.

http://variety.com/2017/tv/features/niel...202027752/

I won't belabor the point but cable companies do not know what you are watching. At best, some boxes might tell them when you change channels or take specific actions but how many of you leave the box on and turn off the tv? How many people are in the room watching (if anyone)?

This is a complicated problem but the continued existence of the Nielsen Corporation speaks to the fact that cable companies don't know what we watch.

So again, Comcast is making an educated guess and they certainly aren't operating on perfect information. We'll see how it works and the long term ramifications for all the league owned networks. Given that BTN is still owned by Fox and they can bundle their channels, I'd guess that this battle is far from over.

Your article linked doesn't support your assertion. Tracking viewing has existed since the advent of the digital box. Comcast finally agreed to let Nielsen have access to sell Nielsen the data in 2017
https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/n...ngs-169972
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 10:05 AM by arkstfan.)
04-17-2018 10:03 AM
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CardinalJim Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
ESPN is going to bundle The ACC Network with The SEC Network, you pay for one, you pay for both. That's how I would market it anyway.

As for The Big Ten Network out of market, I have Spectrum basic cable here in Louisville, The SEC Network is part of it and The Big Ten Network was when it started. When I saw this post I checked, I no longer receive The Big Ten Network. That's strange because Spectrum Louisville services much of Southern Indiana.

The Big Ten Network has hurt Indiana in the Louisville market no doubt. I lived in Southern Indiana for over 20 years. IU fans I know will tell you that they are seeing fewer games now that WTTV in Indy doesn't carry the Hoosiers. Some rural areas of Indiana not far from Louisville don't have cable so The Big Ten Network is useless.
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04-17-2018 10:57 AM
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Post: #72
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-17-2018 10:57 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  ESPN is going to bundle The ACC Network with The SEC Network, you pay for one, you pay for both. That's how I would market it anyway.

As for The Big Ten Network out of market, I have Spectrum basic cable here in Louisville, The SEC Network is part of it and The Big Ten Network was when it started. When I saw this post I checked, I no longer receive The Big Ten Network. That's strange because Spectrum Louisville services much of Southern Indiana.

The Big Ten Network has hurt Indiana in the Louisville market no doubt. I lived in Southern Indiana for over 20 years. IU fans I know will tell you that they are seeing fewer games now that WTTV in Indy doesn't carry the Hoosiers. Some rural areas of Indiana not far from Louisville don't have cable so The Big Ten Network is useless.
CJ

Carriers in Georgia, Florida, South Carolina and Kentucky may not be big fans of that if they end up paying full in-market rates for both.
04-17-2018 12:33 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-17-2018 12:33 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 10:57 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  ESPN is going to bundle The ACC Network with The SEC Network, you pay for one, you pay for both. That's how I would market it anyway.

As for The Big Ten Network out of market, I have Spectrum basic cable here in Louisville, The SEC Network is part of it and The Big Ten Network was when it started. When I saw this post I checked, I no longer receive The Big Ten Network. That's strange because Spectrum Louisville services much of Southern Indiana.

The Big Ten Network has hurt Indiana in the Louisville market no doubt. I lived in Southern Indiana for over 20 years. IU fans I know will tell you that they are seeing fewer games now that WTTV in Indy doesn't carry the Hoosiers. Some rural areas of Indiana not far from Louisville don't have cable so The Big Ten Network is useless.
CJ

Carriers in Georgia, Florida, South Carolina and Kentucky may not be big fans of that if they end up paying full in-market rates for both.

Yeah I seriously doubt sec fans will be forced to buy the ACC network. I'll love it if it happens, but it probably won't..
04-17-2018 12:38 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-17-2018 10:57 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  ESPN is going to bundle The ACC Network with The SEC Network, you pay for one, you pay for both. That's how I would market it anyway.

If i was the SEC, i would be very pissed off about that. No interest in allowing the ACC to piggy back off the market the SEC built.

Plus, as someone who gets the SECN but has no interest in an ACCN, i do not want to be forced to get the ACCN in order to keep the SECN.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 01:24 PM by quo vadis.)
04-17-2018 01:23 PM
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ColKurtz Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-17-2018 12:38 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Yeah I seriously doubt sec fans will be forced to buy the ACC network. I'll love it if it happens, but it probably won't..

They won't be forcing those fans to pay for the ACC Network any more than they're forcing those same fans to pay for Lifetime or Home Shopping or whatever. They pay their bill and get whatever channels ESPN and others have negotiated behind the scenes. It's not like it's itemized.
04-17-2018 01:29 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #76
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
It appears that the ACC network will be replacing the Big Ten network in many states.

As to whether Disney will bundle the ACC network in SEC states: do you think the Mouse prefers $1.30 per month or $2.60? Ultimately it's their call and their money (well, their half).
04-17-2018 01:59 PM
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Post: #77
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-17-2018 01:23 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 10:57 AM)CardinalJim Wrote:  ESPN is going to bundle The ACC Network with The SEC Network, you pay for one, you pay for both. That's how I would market it anyway.

If i was the SEC, i would be very pissed off about that. No interest in allowing the ACC to piggy back off the market the SEC built.

Plus, as someone who gets the SECN but has no interest in an ACCN, i do not want to be forced to get the ACCN in order to keep the SECN.

That's not exactly how this will work Quo. If they are indeed bundled the SEC will getting out of footprint rates for the ACC portion of the footprint and vice versa. And what else that has been circulating that is untrue is that the rate for the two networks will be the same. It won't. So they will be grouped together for mutual benefit, but each conference will gain only more carriage via the bundle. And each conference will only keep the appropriate rate for their own footprint and for carriage beyond their footprint.

The ACC's in footprint rate hasn't been released yet. I expect it to be way higher than the 11 cents for the PAC aggregate and probably under the .48 cents for the Big 10 aggregate. The SEC's aggregate rate (out of footprint and within footprint average) is .74 cents. Most of the claims of huge dollars for the ACC have mistakenly taken the SEC's rate of .74 cents and multiplied it by the number of cable households within the ACC's footprint. It won't work that way. They'll get a decent rate, but it will be multiplied by the number of households within the ACC footprint buying the cable channel, which will include those who buy the SECN. And in turn the SECN will continue to get their rate inside the SEC's footprint, but the ACCN will get to claim out of footprint rates for those buying the networks there.

So it will benefit both conferences without really affecting the rates of the other. It might be argued that it is an added burden to the subscribers, but both channels will be on the same tier so it doesn't reallly affect the consumer.

In reality what will be happening is that ESPN will be paying both conferences a very slight overall increase in order to try to increase the penetration of both conference networks. Now how much the rate will be for the SEC in ACC footprint or the ACC's rate within the SEC footprint will vary from the traditional out of footprint rates paid for subscriptions in the rest of the nation I haven't heard. It may not actually vary at all. The issue here is more of an in house ESPN issue for increasing exposure.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 02:09 PM by JRsec.)
04-17-2018 02:05 PM
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Hokie Mark Online
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Post: #78
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-17-2018 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ...If they are indeed bundled the SEC will getting out of footprint rates for the ACC portion of the footprint and vice versa. And what else that has been circulating that is untrue is that the rate for the two networks will be the same. It won't. So they will be grouped together for mutual benefit, but each conference will gain only more carriage via the bundle. And each conference will only keep the appropriate rate for their own footprint and for carriage beyond their footprint.

The ACC's in footprint rate hasn't been released yet. I expect it to be way higher than the 11 cents for the PAC aggregate and probably under the .48 cents for the Big 10 aggregate. The SEC's aggregate rate (out of footprint and within footprint average) is .74 cents. Most of the claims of huge dollars for the ACC have mistakenly taken the SEC's rate of .74 cents and multiplied it by the number of cable households within the ACC's footprint. It won't work that way. They'll get a decent rate, but it will be multiplied by the number of households within the ACC footprint buying the cable channel, which will include those who buy the SECN. And in turn the SECN will continue to get their rate inside the SEC's footprint, but the ACCN will get to claim out of footprint rates for those buying the networks there.

So it will benefit both conferences without really affecting the rates of the other. It might be argued that it is an added burden to the subscribers, but both channels will be on the same tier so it doesn't reallly affect the consumer.

In reality what will be happening is that ESPN will be paying both conferences a very slight overall increase in order to try to increase the penetration of both conference networks. Now how much the rate will be for the SEC in ACC footprint or the ACC's rate within the SEC footprint will vary from the traditional out of footprint rates paid for subscriptions in the rest of the nation I haven't heard. It may not actually vary at all. The issue here is more of an in house ESPN issue for increasing exposure.

Well, keep in mind that the SECN gets $0.74 basically nowhere. IIRC, they get $1.30 in-state and $0.25 out of state, for an AVERAGE of $0.74. I wouldn't be surprised* if the ACC gets those same rates, just in different states (obviously).

* on the other hand, it's possible that the ACC may get less - it all depends on what the market is willing to bear.
04-17-2018 02:47 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
(04-17-2018 02:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 02:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  ...If they are indeed bundled the SEC will getting out of footprint rates for the ACC portion of the footprint and vice versa. And what else that has been circulating that is untrue is that the rate for the two networks will be the same. It won't. So they will be grouped together for mutual benefit, but each conference will gain only more carriage via the bundle. And each conference will only keep the appropriate rate for their own footprint and for carriage beyond their footprint.

The ACC's in footprint rate hasn't been released yet. I expect it to be way higher than the 11 cents for the PAC aggregate and probably under the .48 cents for the Big 10 aggregate. The SEC's aggregate rate (out of footprint and within footprint average) is .74 cents. Most of the claims of huge dollars for the ACC have mistakenly taken the SEC's rate of .74 cents and multiplied it by the number of cable households within the ACC's footprint. It won't work that way. They'll get a decent rate, but it will be multiplied by the number of households within the ACC footprint buying the cable channel, which will include those who buy the SECN. And in turn the SECN will continue to get their rate inside the SEC's footprint, but the ACCN will get to claim out of footprint rates for those buying the networks there.

So it will benefit both conferences without really affecting the rates of the other. It might be argued that it is an added burden to the subscribers, but both channels will be on the same tier so it doesn't reallly affect the consumer.

In reality what will be happening is that ESPN will be paying both conferences a very slight overall increase in order to try to increase the penetration of both conference networks. Now how much the rate will be for the SEC in ACC footprint or the ACC's rate within the SEC footprint will vary from the traditional out of footprint rates paid for subscriptions in the rest of the nation I haven't heard. It may not actually vary at all. The issue here is more of an in house ESPN issue for increasing exposure.

Well, keep in mind that the SECN gets $0.74 basically nowhere. IIRC, they get $1.30 in-state and $0.25 out of state, for an AVERAGE of $0.74. I wouldn't be surprised* if the ACC gets those same rates, just in different states (obviously).

* on the other hand, it's possible that the ACC may get less - it all depends on what the market is willing to bear.

You do understand the terms aggregate and average which in this case are virtually interchangeable? The increase for both will be in guaranteed carriage. Then depending upon the rates you can figure what that means monetarily.
04-17-2018 03:03 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Comcast dropping Big 10 Network out of market?
We'll know when the information becomes available.
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04-17-2018 03:12 PM
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