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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #61
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-17-2018 02:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 01:07 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Interesting. So how does that work for the Big East? They're not an FBS conference so they're non-autonomous and they only get 1 vote, but the media considers them a "power league"?

As far as the rules are concerned, we the Big East are no different than America East or the Big West. But, in terms of the most important concession, the autobid, we were given respect and status. On other matters, we're generally comfortable with what The Powers That Be want the NCAA to do--rig things for the rich and powerful, which we are.

That's a good way to describe it. We don't have the vote, but we have the respect, and money, of a true Power conference. 04-cheers
04-17-2018 04:00 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #62
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-17-2018 02:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 01:07 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Interesting. So how does that work for the Big East? They're not an FBS conference so they're non-autonomous and they only get 1 vote, but the media considers them a "power league"?

As far as the rules are concerned, we the Big East are no different than America East or the Big West. But, in terms of the most important concession, the autobid, we were given respect and status. On other matters, we're generally comfortable with what The Powers That Be want the NCAA to do--rig things for the rich and powerful, which we are.

I'm not sure I understand the bolded statement. How is getting an autobid, like the other 31 conferences, a "concession"?
04-18-2018 09:30 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #63
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 09:30 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 02:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 01:07 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Interesting. So how does that work for the Big East? They're not an FBS conference so they're non-autonomous and they only get 1 vote, but the media considers them a "power league"?

As far as the rules are concerned, we the Big East are no different than America East or the Big West. But, in terms of the most important concession, the autobid, we were given respect and status. On other matters, we're generally comfortable with what The Powers That Be want the NCAA to do--rig things for the rich and powerful, which we are.

I'm not sure I understand the bolded statement. How is getting an autobid, like the other 31 conferences, a "concession"?

We didn't have to go through the 8-year qualifying process for a new conference. The rules were waived because we're royalty, because we got a raw deal in realignment, because the Big East isn't a new one-bid league taking away an at-large, because we maybe had a legal claim to fight the NCAA because we had a reliance interest in the old rules (the Pre-Nup that allowed the Big East to divorce was written based upon the expectation of the old continuity rules) or some combination of those.

Ask the Great West how easy it is to get an autobid.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2018 10:12 AM by johnbragg.)
04-18-2018 10:10 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #64
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 10:10 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 09:30 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 02:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 01:07 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Interesting. So how does that work for the Big East? They're not an FBS conference so they're non-autonomous and they only get 1 vote, but the media considers them a "power league"?

As far as the rules are concerned, we the Big East are no different than America East or the Big West. But, in terms of the most important concession, the autobid, we were given respect and status. On other matters, we're generally comfortable with what The Powers That Be want the NCAA to do--rig things for the rich and powerful, which we are.

I'm not sure I understand the bolded statement. How is getting an autobid, like the other 31 conferences, a "concession"?

We didn't have to go through the 8-year qualifying process for a new conference. The rules were waived because we're royalty, because we got a raw deal in realignment, because the Big East isn't a new one-bid league taking away an at-large, because we maybe had a legal claim to fight the NCAA because we had a reliance interest in the old rules (the Pre-Nup that allowed the Big East to divorce was written based upon the expectation of the old continuity rules) or some combination of those.

IMO, it's 99% what I bolded. The current membership is putting forth multiple at-large-worthy teams every year, so giving the NBE a March Madness autobid doesn't affect other teams competing for one of those last at-large spots every year.

It's nice to have some sympathy because of reliance on old rules, or because Big East basketball was great in the 1980s, but that wouldn't be nearly enough if the conference was currently poor at men's hoops.
04-18-2018 10:58 AM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #65
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 10:58 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 10:10 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 09:30 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 02:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 01:07 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Interesting. So how does that work for the Big East? They're not an FBS conference so they're non-autonomous and they only get 1 vote, but the media considers them a "power league"?

As far as the rules are concerned, we the Big East are no different than America East or the Big West. But, in terms of the most important concession, the autobid, we were given respect and status. On other matters, we're generally comfortable with what The Powers That Be want the NCAA to do--rig things for the rich and powerful, which we are.

I'm not sure I understand the bolded statement. How is getting an autobid, like the other 31 conferences, a "concession"?

We didn't have to go through the 8-year qualifying process for a new conference. The rules were waived because we're royalty, because we got a raw deal in realignment, because the Big East isn't a new one-bid league taking away an at-large, because we maybe had a legal claim to fight the NCAA because we had a reliance interest in the old rules (the Pre-Nup that allowed the Big East to divorce was written based upon the expectation of the old continuity rules) or some combination of those.

IMO, it's 99% what I bolded. The current membership is putting forth multiple at-large-worthy teams every year, so giving the NBE a March Madness autobid doesn't affect other teams competing for one of those last at-large spots every year.

It's nice to have some sympathy because of reliance on old rules, or because Big East basketball was great in the 1980s, but that wouldn't be nearly enough if the conference was currently poor at men's hoops.

99% is high, but that's probably the biggest single factor. My point is that the rules were set aside and we got the autobid instead of being sent to Great West purgatory.
04-18-2018 11:59 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
How many of the P5 AAU schools think of D3 AAU schools as equals? Schools like M.I.T, Cal.Tech and Chicago State?
04-18-2018 01:20 PM
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #67
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 01:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How many of the P5 AAU schools think of D3 AAU schools as equals? Schools like M.I.T, Cal.Tech and Chicago State?

I will assume you mean University of Chicago, not Chicago State.
04-18-2018 01:44 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 01:44 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How many of the P5 AAU schools think of D3 AAU schools as equals? Schools like M.I.T, Cal.Tech and Chicago State?

I will assume you mean University of Chicago, not Chicago State.

Yeah. That is what I meant. University of Chicago.

I read that the Big 10 is lobbying for McGill and University of Toronto to join the NCAA D1. I know they would like Johns Hopkins there besides LAX for the Big 10.
04-18-2018 03:12 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #69
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 03:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:44 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How many of the P5 AAU schools think of D3 AAU schools as equals? Schools like M.I.T, Cal.Tech and Chicago State?

I will assume you mean University of Chicago, not Chicago State.

Yeah. That is what I meant. University of Chicago.

I read that the Big 10 is lobbying for McGill and University of Toronto to join the NCAA D1. I know they would like Johns Hopkins there besides LAX for the Big 10.
Link?
04-18-2018 03:19 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 03:19 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 03:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:44 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How many of the P5 AAU schools think of D3 AAU schools as equals? Schools like M.I.T, Cal.Tech and Chicago State?

I will assume you mean University of Chicago, not Chicago State.

Yeah. That is what I meant. University of Chicago.

I read that the Big 10 is lobbying for McGill and University of Toronto to join the NCAA D1. I know they would like Johns Hopkins there besides LAX for the Big 10.
Link?

Mcgill plays in the d1 men's club hockey division against the Big 10 teams and others there in the past there. With Simon fraser is hinting to upgrade their club team to be varsity d1. The Big 10 could get into a new tv market that are outside of the US. It seems both schools are thinking about playing varsity men's ice hockey in d1. they both do fit the Big 10 criteria to get into the conference since both are AAUs. It is more about attracting the Canadian players to go to the Big 10 schools. If you are getting Canadian schools interested in playing D1 hockey? It could help the NCAA men and women hockey teams to get some good hockey players from Canada. That is why we are seeing teammates facing each other in men and women's hockey in the Winter Olympics.

Ontario University Women's Club Hockey Joined ACHA


Lakehead's Women Club hockey first canadian Team ranked

It has to do more with Hockey and tv rights to expand into Canada.
University of Toronto over 73,000 enrolled.
McGill University, over 35,000 enrolled.

They are big universities and for the Big 10 profile even if it is for Big 10 Hockey at first.
04-18-2018 04:35 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 01:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How many of the P5 AAU schools think of D3 AAU schools as equals? Schools like M.I.T, Cal.Tech and Chicago State?

In the university pecking order, all three of those schools are above almost all AAU P5 schools.

Stanford, Northwestern, Duke and Vanderbilt are probably the only AAU P5 schools that MIT, Cal-Tech, or U. of Chicago would regard as "peers". Maybe Notre Dame, on a day they were feeling nice.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2018 05:08 PM by quo vadis.)
04-18-2018 05:08 PM
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Renandpat Offline
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Post: #72
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 04:35 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 03:19 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 03:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:44 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How many of the P5 AAU schools think of D3 AAU schools as equals? Schools like M.I.T, Cal.Tech and Chicago State?

I will assume you mean University of Chicago, not Chicago State.

Yeah. That is what I meant. University of Chicago.

I read that the Big 10 is lobbying for McGill and University of Toronto to join the NCAA D1. I know they would like Johns Hopkins there besides LAX for the Big 10.
Link?

Mcgill plays in the d1 men's club hockey division against the Big 10 teams and others there in the past there. With Simon fraser is hinting to upgrade their club team to be varsity d1. The Big 10 could get into a new tv market that are outside of the US. It seems both schools are thinking about playing varsity men's ice hockey in d1. they both do fit the Big 10 criteria to get into the conference since both are AAUs. It is more about attracting the Canadian players to go to the Big 10 schools. If you are getting Canadian schools interested in playing D1 hockey? It could help the NCAA men and women hockey teams to get some good hockey players from Canada. That is why we are seeing teammates facing each other in men and women's hockey in the Winter Olympics.

Ontario University Women's Club Hockey Joined ACHA


Lakehead's Women Club hockey first canadian Team ranked

It has to do more with Hockey and tv rights to expand into Canada.
University of Toronto over 73,000 enrolled.
McGill University, over 35,000 enrolled.

They are big universities and for the Big 10 profile even if it is for Big 10 Hockey at first.
So you went from using "is" to using "could". Try again, kiddo. Fake news from you, as usual.

Neither of those links indicate your previous claim of any B1G member, nor the conference office "lobby" a Canadian university to join the NCAA.

Which other message board did you see someone else's fantasy expansion? 247sports?
04-18-2018 09:28 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #73
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 05:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How many of the P5 AAU schools think of D3 AAU schools as equals? Schools like M.I.T, Cal.Tech and Chicago State?

In the university pecking order, all three of those schools are above almost all AAU P5 schools.

Who knew....

07-coffee3
04-18-2018 09:39 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #74
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-18-2018 04:35 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 03:19 PM)Renandpat Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 03:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:44 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 01:20 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  How many of the P5 AAU schools think of D3 AAU schools as equals? Schools like M.I.T, Cal.Tech and Chicago State?

I will assume you mean University of Chicago, not Chicago State.

Yeah. That is what I meant. University of Chicago.

I read that the Big 10 is lobbying for McGill and University of Toronto to join the NCAA D1. I know they would like Johns Hopkins there besides LAX for the Big 10.
Link?

Mcgill plays in the d1 men's club hockey division against the Big 10 teams and others there in the past there. With Simon fraser is hinting to upgrade their club team to be varsity d1. The Big 10 could get into a new tv market that are outside of the US. It seems both schools are thinking about playing varsity men's ice hockey in d1. they both do fit the Big 10 criteria to get into the conference since both are AAUs. It is more about attracting the Canadian players to go to the Big 10 schools. If you are getting Canadian schools interested in playing D1 hockey? It could help the NCAA men and women hockey teams to get some good hockey players from Canada. That is why we are seeing teammates facing each other in men and women's hockey in the Winter Olympics.

Ontario University Women's Club Hockey Joined ACHA


Lakehead's Women Club hockey first canadian Team ranked

It has to do more with Hockey and tv rights to expand into Canada.
University of Toronto over 73,000 enrolled.
McGill University, over 35,000 enrolled.

They are big universities and for the Big 10 profile even if it is for Big 10 Hockey at first.

Club hockey is a whole different animal than NCAA DI varsity. It’s ridiculous even to compare the two. Canadians often go to the NCAA route now, as major junior is too often a goon learning league. Look at the roster of most Ivy League schools. Yeah, they get free education after juniors at Canadian U’s if they choose, but going to school at 22 is not easy if they had sights set on a hockey career.

McGill and U of Toronto would have to join DII first for hockey to be eligible. The DII brand degrades those universities so much they wouldn’t go for it. Canadian U’s, especially high profile and research ones, have too much pride and national allegiance that they would not go NCAA unless rules change drastically Simon Fraser is the only Canadian school that actually applied for DII and they haven’t been invited to a US hockey conference yet.
04-18-2018 10:06 PM
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PK_UToledo Offline
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RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-10-2018 05:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 04:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 02:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 01:50 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  Division I
1B = FBS (P5)
1A = FBS (G5)
1AA = FCS
1AAA = D1 Non FB

OR

Division I
FBS (P5) = Football Playoff Subdivision (FPS) -----> 1B
FBS (G5) = Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) -------> 1A
FCS = Football Championship Subdivision (FBS) --> 1AA
1AAA = D1 Non FB

Either way--my money moves to following pro football. I have zero interest in a P5 only league or a G5 only league.

FWIW, I've never seen college and NFL football in competition, i love to follow them both.

If the FBS - Autonomy leagues did separate, I'd still follow college football. I'd root for USF against whoever we were playing, and I'd still hold out hope we'd get invited to an Autonomy league.

I'm not sure all that much would change on the ground. Presumably, we'd still have one or two OOC games versus P5, just as P5 still play FCS, and the typical year would be us playing our AAC teams followed by a berth in the Birmingham Bowl, much as it does now.

But the meta-goal would still be exactly what it is now: Get an invite to a Power/Autonomy league.


I grew up with SWC football. UH still playing in the top level of football is about the only tenuous remaining tie to that period. I spent some time at Sam Houston St during my journey toward a degree. During my time there--I went to a total of 2 games----and have been to just one Bearcat game since leaving that campus. I just have no interest in the lower levels of college football and even the highest level of college football is not appealing to me if I have no rooting interest.

Its happened before----I was a huge Oiler fan growing up as well. Had season tickets for years. When the Oilers left Houston I stopped watching the NFL. It wasnt some big FU to the league. I just wasnt interested anymore. I found plenty of other activities to fill my Sundays. If I dont have a rooting interest...Im just not interested. I suspect Im not the only person who is that way.

You are not the only one who feels that way by any means. I know we are talking football here, but for me, it is ditto with the NBA and the Seattle Supersonics.
04-22-2018 08:39 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: NCAA Recognizes 3 Division I "subdivisions": FCS, FBS-Autonomy, FBS-Non-...
(04-22-2018 08:39 AM)PK_UToledo Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 05:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 04:48 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 02:00 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 01:50 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  Division I
1B = FBS (P5)
1A = FBS (G5)
1AA = FCS
1AAA = D1 Non FB

OR

Division I
FBS (P5) = Football Playoff Subdivision (FPS) -----> 1B
FBS (G5) = Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) -------> 1A
FCS = Football Championship Subdivision (FBS) --> 1AA
1AAA = D1 Non FB

Either way--my money moves to following pro football. I have zero interest in a P5 only league or a G5 only league.

FWIW, I've never seen college and NFL football in competition, i love to follow them both.

If the FBS - Autonomy leagues did separate, I'd still follow college football. I'd root for USF against whoever we were playing, and I'd still hold out hope we'd get invited to an Autonomy league.

I'm not sure all that much would change on the ground. Presumably, we'd still have one or two OOC games versus P5, just as P5 still play FCS, and the typical year would be us playing our AAC teams followed by a berth in the Birmingham Bowl, much as it does now.

But the meta-goal would still be exactly what it is now: Get an invite to a Power/Autonomy league.


I grew up with SWC football. UH still playing in the top level of football is about the only tenuous remaining tie to that period. I spent some time at Sam Houston St during my journey toward a degree. During my time there--I went to a total of 2 games----and have been to just one Bearcat game since leaving that campus. I just have no interest in the lower levels of college football and even the highest level of college football is not appealing to me if I have no rooting interest.

Its happened before----I was a huge Oiler fan growing up as well. Had season tickets for years. When the Oilers left Houston I stopped watching the NFL. It wasnt some big FU to the league. I just wasnt interested anymore. I found plenty of other activities to fill my Sundays. If I dont have a rooting interest...Im just not interested. I suspect Im not the only person who is that way.

You are not the only one who feels that way by any means. I know we are talking football here, but for me, it is ditto with the NBA and the Seattle Supersonics.

I agree. I think there's people on here that think college football fanatics like me would follow a breakaway cartel group of 65 elite schools. I wouldn't. My ties to Iowa would finally be severed for good and I wouldn't even be a nominal Iowa fan like I am now. The Hawkeyes would become like the semi pro Iowa Barnstormers were to me...I Know who they are but not interested in following them...
04-22-2018 04:42 PM
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