(04-09-2018 08:34 AM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  How would that $770M get distributed, anyway?

Yeah, good question. Some acquisitions just see that pool, however much it is, rolled into the endowment, in some fraction, of the school doing the absorbing.

I'd like to think that when Ogontz turned itself over to Penn State, Penn State took the money...and built something up on Main Campus with it. It certainly didn't all go back to (now) PSU Abington. Or any PSU branch campus...

(04-08-2018 06:40 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  These are the mergers that have occurred in Georgia

BOR trying to save money on administrative costs.

Georgia Southern just recently joined Kennesaw State and Georgia State as schools that have been consolidated with smaller campuses nearby.

Our enrollment went from 20k to 28k basically overnight. Now we have 3 campuses in Savannah, Statesboro, and Fort Stewart. No other D1 or research schools within a 2.5 hour radius. We have so much room to grow and our master plan shows an expected increase in enrollment up to 30k+ in the next 5-10 years. Both the Statesboro and Savannah campuses have massive expansion plans in the works.

(04-08-2018 09:59 PM)McKinney Wrote:  

(04-08-2018 08:11 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Oberlin had an enrollment shortfall of 80 students (2815 students to predict 2895) so its hardly closing its doors. But the larger point is who wants to pay 69,000 dollars a year to graduate with a history degree? That is 276,000 for 4 years.

Apparently a lot of folks from New England. We have boatloads of those kinds of schools and plenty of suckers that think every school that costs $60-70k might as well be Harvard (and I'd make the argument that even Harvard isn't worth a quarter million dollars).

Yea, plenty of wealthy parents (or just non-wealthy kids from upper-middle/upper-class towns) in Connecticut who pay/borrow silly amounts of money to send their kids to private colleges that aren't really anything special academically because they don't want them going to a state school. Not as much the case today as it was historically, but plenty of people down want to go to (particularly the non-UConn) state colleges here for various dubious reasons.

(04-09-2018 12:22 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, plenty of wealthy parents (or just non-wealthy kids from upper-middle/upper-class towns) in Connecticut who pay/borrow silly amounts of money to send their kids to private colleges that aren't really anything special academically because they don't want them going to a state school.

I'm not even sure it's all wealthy families. I know plenty of folks who have gotten themselves well into six figures of debt to go to these kinds of schools. It's ******* nuts.

But you're right, thankfully that is changing for the better - certainly the public school sentiment is nowhere like how it was historically.

(04-09-2018 12:34 PM)McKinney Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 12:22 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Yea, plenty of wealthy parents (or just non-wealthy kids from upper-middle/upper-class towns) in Connecticut who pay/borrow silly amounts of money to send their kids to private colleges that aren't really anything special academically because they don't want them going to a state school.

I'm not even sure it's all wealthy families. I know plenty of folks who have gotten themselves well into six figures of debt to go to these kinds of schools. It's ******* nuts.

But you're right, thankfully that is changing for the better - certainly the public school sentiment is nowhere like how it was historically.

Yea, I tried to touch on that but didn't do a great job. There's also plenty of people who aren't actually wealthy (mostly working/middle-class kids) who simply don't want to go to a, say Southern Connecticut State, because they perceive that that's where screw-ups and "city kids" (I'll use that term) go, despite the fact that it's a perfectly good school that costs way less. People in the Northeast are weird about certain things.

(04-09-2018 12:22 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(04-08-2018 09:59 PM)McKinney Wrote:  

(04-08-2018 08:11 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Oberlin had an enrollment shortfall of 80 students (2815 students to predict 2895) so its hardly closing its doors. But the larger point is who wants to pay 69,000 dollars a year to graduate with a history degree? That is 276,000 for 4 years.

Apparently a lot of folks from New England. We have boatloads of those kinds of schools and plenty of suckers that think every school that costs $60-70k might as well be Harvard (and I'd make the argument that even Harvard isn't worth a quarter million dollars).

Yea, plenty of wealthy parents (or just non-wealthy kids from upper-middle/upper-class towns) in Connecticut who pay/borrow silly amounts of money to send their kids to private colleges that aren't really anything special academically because they don't want them going to a state school. Not as much the case today as it was historically, but plenty of people down want to go to (particularly the non-UConn) state colleges here for various dubious reasons.

I received a lot of information from College of the Ozarks in Point Look Out Missouri about going there. My great aunt was wealthy, and was a donor to the school. They would have overlook my grades to have me go to that college. I did not go because I usually sleep in on Sundays because they demand that you go to church on Sundays and Wednesday. With my slow learning issues with my disabilities, it would hurt me big time if I don't take that time to do my homework for the classes.

(04-09-2018 05:06 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(04-08-2018 08:11 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Oberlin had an enrollment shortfall of 80 students (2815 students to predict 2895) so its hardly closing its doors. But the larger point is who wants to pay 69,000 dollars a year to graduate with a history degree? That is 276,000 for 4 years.

Thirty years ago a school like that would have been 100,000 but someone could graduate from there and get into sales make 100k within 5 years of graduation. If they were the real deal. Today it will take you 10 years and a graduate degree to be able to get there.

I can picture a scene where Oberlin is shutting its gates for good, and its president says "well, at least we didn't compromise our standards."

I think it is possible Oberlin has an expiration date. This issue certainly exposes a more grave reality. The ironic thing is, schools of that pedigree call themselves "competitive" rather than "selective," but to compete, you have to go out there and actually do something. Oberlin is just sitting on its name and thinking it's enough for people to go nuts and come running, darn the cost. Those numbers infer an institution that hasn't been aggressive with its admissions and enrollment, but, probably more troubling...it doesn't give good aid packages to its students. Picky about who can get in there, but not helpful with those who make the cut. If you're not in the Ivy or one of its sister schools (and even a few of those have died), and you pull that kind of stuff...good luck with that. Heck, around here, the mighty Swarthmore has had its own similar issues. And for small schools, it doesn't take a whole lot to cause that kind of problem. Then again, when you ratio admits on applications just to look prestigious...

To the cost issue, the new dimension to whether an undergraduate degree is worth it is now whether the school places you in a job...that helps pay off the debt and pay for future education. Whether the school has the right professional relationships to place you with a good, competitive company. If you don't have those relationships, and I think A LOT of schools don't, public and private...your days are numbered.

Oberlin attracts and caters to a certain demographic of student who is into extreme political advocacy. Only 7% of their student body are from Ohio. They have larger number from NY, CA and Illinois. As long as there are rich people who self-loathe, they will continue to send their kids to schools like Oberlin.

(04-09-2018 01:57 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Oberlin attracts and caters to a certain demographic of student who is into extreme political advocacy. Only 7% of their student body are from Ohio. They have larger number from NY, CA and Illinois. As long as there are rich people who self-loathe, they will continue to send their kids to schools like Oberlin.

Considering Barnard and Radcliffe, two of the seven sister schools, were absorbed by the Ivy school they accompanied, I don't think the future is that certain for places like Oberlin. There is a point where the derivative, even as rich and competitive as they are, box themselves out.

Again, there have been some woes over at the mighty Swarthmore, even with their $2 billion endowment, that the apps aren't what they used to be. It doesn't help that they are among the stingiest schools in the country.

At the center of places like these are how schools aren't giving anything back to their students. And, I don't think this generation gives a rip for these Ivy-like schools because...they aren't among the sacred eight. Sure, there's still plenty of old money sorts out there...it isn't what it used to be. And, clearly, at Oberlin, it's showing.

(04-09-2018 03:08 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:57 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Oberlin attracts and caters to a certain demographic of student who is into extreme political advocacy. Only 7% of their student body are from Ohio. They have larger number from NY, CA and Illinois. As long as there are rich people who self-loathe, they will continue to send their kids to schools like Oberlin.

Considering Barnard and Radcliffe, two of the seven sister schools, were absorbed by the Ivy school they accompanied, I don't think the future is that certain for places like Oberlin. There is a point where the derivative, even as rich and competitive as they are, box themselves out.

Again, there have been some woes over at the mighty Swarthmore, even with their $2 billion endowment, that the apps aren't what they used to be. It doesn't help that they are among the stingiest schools in the country.

At the center of places like these are how schools aren't giving anything back to their students. And, I don't think this generation gives a rip for these Ivy-like schools because...they aren't among the sacred eight. Sure, there's still plenty of old money sorts out there...it isn't what it used to be. And, clearly, at Oberlin, it's showing.

Some of these institutions are nothing except modern segregation schools. Rather than segregating based on race or gender, they are segregating based on family resources. Attending the Ivy's no longer is clear indicator of "pedigree".

Sometime back I saw list of schools that had adequate resources in their endowment to cease charging admission some of the people interviewed said it would hurt the school's reputation if you didn't have to pay.

You got to wonder when several small D3 schools close down or merge with another? Maybe we see all the D3 Wisconsin State schools moved up to D2, and the large D3 state schools moving up? Would the large D3 schools like NYU, M.I.T, Johns Hopkins, RIT, U. of Chicago, Emory, Washington, Mo., Carnegie Mellon, Clark, Clarkson, Case Western and some others decide to buy and merged the struggling colleges into them? Would Case Western Reserves merged with Oberlin and renamed the campus Case Western Reserve-Oberlin? Plus, would these large privates in D3 decides it is becoming too risky to stay in D3 with many failing schools that are about to close down and all that that they move to D2? We are already seeing several schools close in the past several years like Lon Morris, Saint Joseph's Indiana, Dana, Lambuth, Grace in Nebraska, Mount Ida, Saint Catherine in Kentucky, Saint Gregory's in Oklahoma and several others.

(04-09-2018 03:08 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:57 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Oberlin attracts and caters to a certain demographic of student who is into extreme political advocacy. Only 7% of their student body are from Ohio. They have larger number from NY, CA and Illinois. As long as there are rich people who self-loathe, they will continue to send their kids to schools like Oberlin.

Considering Barnard and Radcliffe, two of the seven sister schools, were absorbed by the Ivy school they accompanied, I don't think the future is that certain for places like Oberlin. There is a point where the derivative, even as rich and competitive as they are, box themselves out.

Again, there have been some woes over at the mighty Swarthmore, even with their $2 billion endowment, that the apps aren't what they used to be. It doesn't help that they are among the stingiest schools in the country.

At the center of places like these are how schools aren't giving anything back to their students. And, I don't think this generation gives a rip for these Ivy-like schools because...they aren't among the sacred eight. Sure, there's still plenty of old money sorts out there...it isn't what it used to be. And, clearly, at Oberlin, it's showing.

I see both sides of the coin on this issue.

There's still definitely an anti-"state school" sentiment among an elite subsection of the population. As an anecdote, my co-worker's niece attends a prominent private high school in the Los Angeles area (e.g. a place where Hollywood producers/directors/actors and pro athletes drop off their kids) and her college application list consisted of Dartmouth and around 15 liberal arts schools including the likes of Oberlin and Kenyon. From her niece's perspective, the thought of going to a University of California school seemed "beneath" having gone to such a tony private high school even though all of those UC schools have significantly tougher admissions standards than any school on her college list besides Dartmouth. (Seriously - getting into Berkeley and UCLA were always tough, but now getting into the rest of the UC schools have turned quite insane in terms of selectivity.) The East Coast is even worse since most Californians that aren't in a complete bubble actually do respect the in-state UC schools (whereas affluent New Yorkers seem terrified of sending their kids to SUNY schools). It's a little less of an affliction in the Midwest, South and Southwest with the Big Ten/ACC/SEC/Big 12 schools, but you still see it from time to time.

I don't think a place like Swarthmore is in danger at all - that school is still in that top of the top elite class of liberal arts institutions with Amherst and Williams where people that "matter" (e.g. the Wall Street titans and DC power-brokers) put it at or even above the Ivy League schools. Contrary to your statement, there isn't a slowdown in applications at Swarthmore - it had a 14% increase in applications this year and had its lowest acceptance rate ever at 9%:

http://www.philly.com/philly/education/p...80330.html

Ultimately, whether those schools are well-known by the plebeians of society is largely irrelevant to that class of schools. If you want a really high paying job at an investment bank, hedge fund or management consulting firm, then those schools are incredible feeders to those industries (with them being better per capita feeders than even the Ivies) that make the $70,000 per year cost of attendance still seem to provide a justifiable return on investment.

Oberlin isn't quite in that same category for most academic subjects, although it's certainly an elite school for the performing arts. It probably has a bit more risk since its Midwest location isn't as tied into the power centers of NYC and DC, there is a lot stronger regional competition from Big Ten schools and other public universities (e.g. Miami of Ohio, Pitt, etc.), and its performing arts strength doesn't translate as much to the Wall Street/DC/Silicon Valley/Hollywood nexus that people pay $70,000 per year cost of attendance to break into. People don't just give you jobs because Oberlin is on your resume in a way that they might if you have Swarthmore on your resume (and once again, I'm talking about the prestige-oriented industries like finance, politics, law, etc.). Still, there is going to be a critical mass of people like my co-worker's niece that simply won't go to a state school because it's a state school, so places like Oberlin that are on the next tier of top national liberal arts colleges will still likely have an audience.

Even though Oberlin may have to adjust temporarily due to some missed enrollment targets, they at least have the academic reputation and endowment to make a pivot. Note that this past year seemed to be a yield issue - its acceptance rate is under 30%, but it didn't get as many enrolled students as anticipated. Oberlin probably needs to relent a little bit on its acceptance rate and it would likely make up the enrollment issues.

That's a far different problem than less prestigious liberal arts colleges that aren't getting enough *applications* at all. Those are the schools that are most at risk since they may not be able to fill their classes even at a 100% acceptance rate. Note that this isn't just a private school issue - "directional" public schools are feeling quite a bit of pain, too, especially in the slower population growth Midwest.

History of state by state of scholls closed, merged or have a name changed.

I saw that Wheeling Jesuit in D2 could close down if the football does not attract new students. They are selling land to keep up.

Holy Cross in Indiana is selling some of their land to Notre Dame. I would not be surprise that Holy Cross will wind up merging with Notre Dame in the future.

D1 Mount Saint Mary's could Be The first One With Financial Issues

Mount St. Mary's could be the first one in D1 to close if they can't get the enrollment up, and get out pof the deep dept.


Former D1 school Morris Brown could close. They only been getting 50 students.

Concordia, Alabama To Shut Down This Year

Atlantic Union to Shut Down

Concordia Alabama News

Vattorett College closing

Cheney Potential Shut Down For Good, Or Merge With West Chester

Looks like 2 D2 schools in Pennsylvania could actually merge. If it is the only way to save a HBCU? I say go for it.

(04-09-2018 07:30 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Vattorett College closing

Another scalp....

Private schools that have prestige factor and who land their alumni in profitable places will continue to be able to charge top dollar for tuition. Oberlin apparently is sliding in reputation among the population they target. As some have touched on, Oberlin puts the LIBERAL in liberal arts. They are looking for students whose parents have deep pockets and who have already developed a very liberal worldview. One of two things needs to happen for Oberlin--regain their status or cut tuition.

For a cautionary tail of where they might be headed Oberlin needs to look no further than former fellow 6 Colleges of Ohio Member Antioch. Located in Yellow Springs, a town my father-in-law calls Red Springs or Commie Springs, they too catered to hyper-liberal rich students and they have gone the way of the dodo.

(04-09-2018 04:38 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 03:08 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(04-09-2018 01:57 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Oberlin attracts and caters to a certain demographic of student who is into extreme political advocacy. Only 7% of their student body are from Ohio. They have larger number from NY, CA and Illinois. As long as there are rich people who self-loathe, they will continue to send their kids to schools like Oberlin.

Considering Barnard and Radcliffe, two of the seven sister schools, were absorbed by the Ivy school they accompanied, I don't think the future is that certain for places like Oberlin. There is a point where the derivative, even as rich and competitive as they are, box themselves out.

Again, there have been some woes over at the mighty Swarthmore, even with their $2 billion endowment, that the apps aren't what they used to be. It doesn't help that they are among the stingiest schools in the country.

At the center of places like these are how schools aren't giving anything back to their students. And, I don't think this generation gives a rip for these Ivy-like schools because...they aren't among the sacred eight. Sure, there's still plenty of old money sorts out there...it isn't what it used to be. And, clearly, at Oberlin, it's showing.

I see both sides of the coin on this issue.

There's still definitely an anti-"state school" sentiment among an elite subsection of the population. As an anecdote, my co-worker's niece attends a prominent private high school in the Los Angeles area (e.g. a place where Hollywood producers/directors/actors and pro athletes drop off their kids) and her college application list consisted of Dartmouth and around 15 liberal arts schools including the likes of Oberlin and Kenyon. From her niece's perspective, the thought of going to a University of California school seemed "beneath" having gone to such a tony private high school even though all of those UC schools have significantly tougher admissions standards than any school on her college list besides Dartmouth. (Seriously - getting into Berkeley and UCLA were always tough, but now getting into the rest of the UC schools have turned quite insane in terms of selectivity.) The East Coast is even worse since most Californians that aren't in a complete bubble actually do respect the in-state UC schools (whereas affluent New Yorkers seem terrified of sending their kids to SUNY schools). It's a little less of an affliction in the Midwest, South and Southwest with the Big Ten/ACC/SEC/Big 12 schools, but you still see it from time to time.

I don't think a place like Swarthmore is in danger at all - that school is still in that top of the top elite class of liberal arts institutions with Amherst and Williams where people that "matter" (e.g. the Wall Street titans and DC power-brokers) put it at or even above the Ivy League schools. Contrary to your statement, there isn't a slowdown in applications at Swarthmore - it had a 14% increase in applications this year and had its lowest acceptance rate ever at 9%:

http://www.philly.com/philly/education/p...80330.html

Ultimately, whether those schools are well-known by the plebeians of society is largely irrelevant to that class of schools. If you want a really high paying job at an investment bank, hedge fund or management consulting firm, then those schools are incredible feeders to those industries (with them being better per capita feeders than even the Ivies) that make the $70,000 per year cost of attendance still seem to provide a justifiable return on investment.

Oberlin isn't quite in that same category for most academic subjects, although it's certainly an elite school for the performing arts. It probably has a bit more risk since its Midwest location isn't as tied into the power centers of NYC and DC, there is a lot stronger regional competition from Big Ten schools and other public universities (e.g. Miami of Ohio, Pitt, etc.), and its performing arts strength doesn't translate as much to the Wall Street/DC/Silicon Valley/Hollywood nexus that people pay $70,000 per year cost of attendance to break into. People don't just give you jobs because Oberlin is on your resume in a way that they might if you have Swarthmore on your resume (and once again, I'm talking about the prestige-oriented industries like finance, politics, law, etc.). Still, there is going to be a critical mass of people like my co-worker's niece that simply won't go to a state school because it's a state school, so places like Oberlin that are on the next tier of top national liberal arts colleges will still likely have an audience.

Even though Oberlin may have to adjust temporarily due to some missed enrollment targets, they at least have the academic reputation and endowment to make a pivot. Note that this past year seemed to be a yield issue - its acceptance rate is under 30%, but it didn't get as many enrolled students as anticipated. Oberlin probably needs to relent a little bit on its acceptance rate and it would likely make up the enrollment issues.

That's a far different problem than less prestigious liberal arts colleges that aren't getting enough *applications* at all. Those are the schools that are most at risk since they may not be able to fill their classes even at a 100% acceptance rate. Note that this isn't just a private school issue - "directional" public schools are feeling quite a bit of pain, too, especially in the slower population growth Midwest.

In my public HS in suburban DFW, there was some of that. The girl who told me, "I'm only going to SMU because they gave me a full ride"(i.e. only the eastern privates were good enough). People who asked me, "Why are you going to Texas when you have a national merit scholarship!?"
(why not when it was cheap-the scholarship didn't pay everything-and was 1st or 2nd in the country in my field-shuffling back and forth with Frank's Illinois for the top spot).

(04-08-2018 04:41 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Like how they blamed Oberlin problem on 80 fewer students in the incoming class, ha. Problem with schools is tuition way too high and out of control expenses. I mean why go to Oberlin for $70,000 when you could go to Miami for what $15,000 per year ?

Oberlin has a 770 million dollar endowment and only accepts 27 percent of its students who apply to it. They're not going anywhere. They could slightly lower their acceptance criteria or lower tuition as well.

(04-09-2018 04:24 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  You got to wonder when several small D3 schools close down or merge with another? Maybe we see all the D3 Wisconsin State schools moved up to D2, and the large D3 state schools moving up? Would the large D3 schools like NYU, M.I.T, Johns Hopkins, RIT, U. of Chicago, Emory, Washington, Mo., Carnegie Mellon, Clark, Clarkson, Case Western and some others decide to buy and merged the struggling colleges into them? Would Case Western Reserves merged with Oberlin and renamed the campus Case Western Reserve-Oberlin? Plus, would these large privates in D3 decides it is becoming too risky to stay in D3 with many failing schools that are about to close down and all that that they move to D2? We are already seeing several schools close in the past several years like Lon Morris, Saint Joseph's Indiana, Dana, Lambuth, Grace in Nebraska, Mount Ida, Saint Catherine in Kentucky, Saint Gregory's in Oklahoma and several others.

Hofstra used to be a satellite campus of NYU that was spun off in 1939. NYU had to sell property for a third campus to NYC in order to stave off bankruptcy in the 1970's. Once NYU got itself righted, it has gone on a massive expansion. It has mostly absorbed hospitals through the Langone Medical Center system. Within the last few years NYU has absorbed and expanded a campus in Brooklyn that used to be the Polytechnic Institute.

Evergreen State Financial Woes

I am wondering if Washington State will take over and renamed it Washington State-Olympia and have them drop all sports. Washington State would not allow their Vancouver campus have a sports team, but there is a student movement to have varsity sports to come to their campus. One reason why they want sports because Pullman is on the other side of the state, and many students do not have the money to go there to root for the team. They want a team to root for.