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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
New Rochelle College In trouble

New Rochelle college does have a sports team.
04-10-2018 11:01 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-09-2018 10:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  In my public HS in suburban DFW, there was some of that. The girl who told me, "I'm only going to SMU because they gave me a full ride"(i.e. only the eastern privates were good enough). People who asked me, "Why are you going to Texas when you have a national merit scholarship!?"
(why not when it was cheap-the scholarship didn't pay everything-and was 1st or 2nd in the country in my field-shuffling back and forth with Frank's Illinois for the top spot).

Oh yeah - I personally never understood the idea of paying a lot for the sake of paying a lot. If you're paying in-state tuition at places like Texas, the University of California system, the Big Ten schools, etc., or you're getting a full-ride at any reputable place (like the SMU example), basically only the Harvard/Stanford/MIT-level of school (e.g. those places where you can name drop the school for the life and basically everyone will give you at least an interview if not a job) is worth the full private school cost of attendance that's now at around $70,000 per year... and that's when we're talking about schools that are actually ranked higher than the less expensive choices. It makes even less sense to pay a premium when the in-state public school is higher ranked in virtually every program - if you're majoring in engineering or business and you get into UT-Austin as a Texas resident where those are among the best programs in the country bar none (regardless of cost), it's pretty hard in my mind to justify paying a private school sticker price when they're actually ranked lower.

Granted, high school seniors are always comparing things with each other and it's no different with college acceptances. It's hard to tell a kid who *feels* like everyone in their high school class is going to Champaign or Austin that he/she isn't going to be running into them at all in those types of places. Going to the fancy private school feels getting a luxury good like Lexus as opposed to a Toyota - even though the two cars do pretty much the same thing and are even built on the same base framework, owning a Lexus is what people brag about as opposed to owning a Toyota.

Of course, the issue is that once high school graduation happens and kids are out of that bubble, the reality of being able to pay for that luxury good becomes more important than impressing friends. Those with parents that can pay the full freight may not need to worry, but the vast majority of kids do need to worry about tuition payments and graduating with debt. It's an important financial reality that applies to pretty much everything in life, whether it's paying for college, a car, a house, a wedding, a vacation, etc.
04-10-2018 11:24 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-09-2018 08:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Private schools that have prestige factor and who land their alumni in profitable places will continue to be able to charge top dollar for tuition. Oberlin apparently is sliding in reputation among the population they target. As some have touched on, Oberlin puts the LIBERAL in liberal arts. They are looking for students whose parents have deep pockets and who have already developed a very liberal worldview. One of two things needs to happen for Oberlin--regain their status or cut tuition.

For a cautionary tail of where they might be headed Oberlin needs to look no further than former fellow 6 Colleges of Ohio Member Antioch. Located in Yellow Springs, a town my father-in-law calls Red Springs or Commie Springs, they too catered to hyper-liberal rich students and they have gone the way of the dodo.

Eh - I wouldn't put too much stock into that narrative. The Ivy League schools and pretty much all of the schools in the top 25 of the US News rankings other than maybe Notre Dame are super liberal universities and they're getting record high applications with record low acceptance rates (and that's despite the number of high school grads declining). It's more about a flight to quality at the high end and finding value elsewhere. Harvard and Oberlin have the same sticker price for tuition, so of course Harvard wins that battle easily. That then brings into question whether paying for Oberlin is worth it over paying for, say, Ohio State or Miami University. How much financial aid does Oberlin need to provide to be competitive in that marketplace? Does Oberlin have to increase its acceptance rate to get its target enrollment? Like I've said previously, Oberlin's acceptance rate is under 30%, so it's not as if though it's not attracting applicants. It's more about the fact that the types of students that Oberlin wants often have a lot of choices ranging from Ivy-level schools to public flagships to high scholarship amounts.

At least Oberlin has the endowment and application flexibility to meet enrollment numbers if enrollment in and of itself is the goal. Other schools that DavidSt has listed (and I'll give him credit here for posting very interesting information here) don't have that ability at all. *Those* types of schools are the ones that are truly in danger. Like much of the rest of society, the "winners" in the college marketplace are getting more applications and students than ever, while others are being left behind in the wake of declining high school grad numbers.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2018 11:46 AM by Frank the Tank.)
04-10-2018 11:44 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #44
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-09-2018 10:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  In my public HS in suburban DFW, there was some of that. The girl who told me, "I'm only going to SMU because they gave me a full ride"(i.e. only the eastern privates were good enough). People who asked me, "Why are you going to Texas when you have a national merit scholarship!?"
(why not when it was cheap-the scholarship didn't pay everything-and was 1st or 2nd in the country in my field-shuffling back and forth with Frank's Illinois for the top spot).

Oh yeah - I personally never understood the idea of paying a lot for the sake of paying a lot.

Designer fashion, luxury automakers, jewelry stores, and high end electronics makers don't like your attitude.
04-10-2018 12:02 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-09-2018 10:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  In my public HS in suburban DFW, there was some of that. The girl who told me, "I'm only going to SMU because they gave me a full ride"(i.e. only the eastern privates were good enough). People who asked me, "Why are you going to Texas when you have a national merit scholarship!?"
(why not when it was cheap-the scholarship didn't pay everything-and was 1st or 2nd in the country in my field-shuffling back and forth with Frank's Illinois for the top spot).

Oh yeah - I personally never understood the idea of paying a lot for the sake of paying a lot.

Designer fashion, luxury automakers, jewelry stores, and high end electronics makers don't like your attitude.

Ha! I certainly get it. I gave the Lexus vs. Toyota comparison because that's honestly ME. Logic says to buy the Toyota, but the heart says to buy the Lexus. I'm not a particularly brand-conscious person for most items, but I'll admit to being that way in the car area. My wife, on the other hand, doesn't give a crap about the brand as much as the actual features, dependability, etc. What I can afford today as a veteran attorney with no students loans is also a whole lot different than what I could afford 15 years ago as someone just coming out of law school with a ton of student loans, so that expands the array of choices.

To be sure, the Lexus has features that the Toyota doesn't have, so it's not as if though someone is paying for "nothing" in that scenario. In the college context, though, you do see a lot of people paying for "nothing". For the example of my co-worker's niece, Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD and UC Irvine are ALL straight up better academic schools than all of the way more expensive liberal arts schools that she applied to. It would actually be like paying *more* for the Toyota as opposed to the Lexus. That's what never really made sense to me.
04-10-2018 12:37 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
Bennett College in trouble

Marlboro College in trouble

Morthland College Financial woes
Morthland dropped all sports last year.

Edinboro's problems

San Diego Christian troubles

Saint Michael's Vermont cut staff

d1 Rider University financial woes

D3 Middolebury's financial woes

D1 Bethune-Cookman's financial woes

Stillman's financial woes

Keene State

Alderson Broaderous

Jackson State

Northland College

SUNY Poly

D1 Wright State

Moody Bible

Omaha financial issues at D1

Birmingham Southern to reduce tuition by 50%

Lincoln Missouri

South University faces sale

UMass. Boston financial woes

University of Dallas

University of Hartford

Sainnt Gregory's legal issues

Albany State financial woes

https://www.educationdive.com/news/financial-woes-continue-to-plague-colleges-of-all-sizes/445292/

Spelman College

Burlington College closed

Atlanta Metro State woes

Texas Southern

University of California debt

Dartmouth

Morehouse College

Westminster Utah Success Bucking Trends

Quincy University

Ithaca College

Ashland struggles

Arkansas Baptist woes

Colby Sawyer

Virginia Intermont woes

Spring Hill

Loyola New Orleans fiancial woes

Sarah Lawrence, Know, Wheaton and Gonzaga with others struggling with enrollment

The link above also list Iowa Wesleyan, Georgetown Kentucky, Coe, Franklin Pierce,
Mid-Continent closes, Yeshiva University, Chatham University, Saint Elizabeth, St. Augustine’s University,

Montana State

I think that schools may need to move around to get better exposure to recruit new schools. We could even see more schools at all levels closed or merged with others. Radford, Mount Mary and some others at the D1 are in trouble themselves and could close down.
04-10-2018 12:44 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 11:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-09-2018 08:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Private schools that have prestige factor and who land their alumni in profitable places will continue to be able to charge top dollar for tuition. Oberlin apparently is sliding in reputation among the population they target. As some have touched on, Oberlin puts the LIBERAL in liberal arts. They are looking for students whose parents have deep pockets and who have already developed a very liberal worldview. One of two things needs to happen for Oberlin--regain their status or cut tuition.

For a cautionary tail of where they might be headed Oberlin needs to look no further than former fellow 6 Colleges of Ohio Member Antioch. Located in Yellow Springs, a town my father-in-law calls Red Springs or Commie Springs, they too catered to hyper-liberal rich students and they have gone the way of the dodo.

Eh - I wouldn't put too much stock into that narrative. The Ivy League schools and pretty much all of the schools in the top 25 of the US News rankings other than maybe Notre Dame are super liberal universities and they're getting record high applications with record low acceptance rates (and that's despite the number of high school grads declining). It's more about a flight to quality at the high end and finding value elsewhere. Harvard and Oberlin have the same sticker price for tuition, so of course Harvard wins that battle easily. That then brings into question whether paying for Oberlin is worth it over paying for, say, Ohio State or Miami University. How much financial aid does Oberlin need to provide to be competitive in that marketplace? Does Oberlin have to increase its acceptance rate to get its target enrollment? Like I've said previously, Oberlin's acceptance rate is under 30%, so it's not as if though it's not attracting applicants. It's more about the fact that the types of students that Oberlin wants often have a lot of choices ranging from Ivy-level schools to public flagships to high scholarship amounts.

At least Oberlin has the endowment and application flexibility to meet enrollment numbers if enrollment in and of itself is the goal. Other schools that DavidSt has listed (and I'll give him credit here for posting very interesting information here) don't have that ability at all. *Those* types of schools are the ones that are truly in danger. Like much of the rest of society, the "winners" in the college marketplace are getting more applications and students than ever, while others are being left behind in the wake of declining high school grad numbers.


Ashland in Ohio is also in financial troubles as well. The problem that I am seeing is that the large schools, mainly in the P5 do get a lot of tv exposure than the other schools. It does kill off the competition that could hurt the P5 schools in the future. I do think people have forgotten about the D3 and NAIA schools mainly because of the lack of exposure nationally. D2 do get some exposure from CBS-S.
04-10-2018 12:48 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Virginia Intermont woes

I think that schools may need to move around to get better exposure to recruit new schools. We could even see more schools at all levels closed or merged with others. Radford, Mount Mary and some others at the D1 are in trouble themselves and could close down.

1. Virginia Intermont closed four years ago, a year after Saint Paul's closed.
2. Where are you getting that Radford is in trouble? I mean, they did shut down a few weeks ago, but that was for snow.
04-10-2018 01:04 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 12:37 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-09-2018 10:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  In my public HS in suburban DFW, there was some of that. The girl who told me, "I'm only going to SMU because they gave me a full ride"(i.e. only the eastern privates were good enough). People who asked me, "Why are you going to Texas when you have a national merit scholarship!?"
(why not when it was cheap-the scholarship didn't pay everything-and was 1st or 2nd in the country in my field-shuffling back and forth with Frank's Illinois for the top spot).

Oh yeah - I personally never understood the idea of paying a lot for the sake of paying a lot.

Designer fashion, luxury automakers, jewelry stores, and high end electronics makers don't like your attitude.

Ha! I certainly get it. I gave the Lexus vs. Toyota comparison because that's honestly ME. Logic says to buy the Toyota, but the heart says to buy the Lexus. I'm not a particularly brand-conscious person for most items, but I'll admit to being that way in the car area. My wife, on the other hand, doesn't give a crap about the brand as much as the actual features, dependability, etc. What I can afford today as a veteran attorney with no students loans is also a whole lot different than what I could afford 15 years ago as someone just coming out of law school with a ton of student loans, so that expands the array of choices.

To be sure, the Lexus has features that the Toyota doesn't have, so it's not as if though someone is paying for "nothing" in that scenario. In the college context, though, you do see a lot of people paying for "nothing". For the example of my co-worker's niece, Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD and UC Irvine are ALL straight up better academic schools than all of the way more expensive liberal arts schools that she applied to. It would actually be like paying *more* for the Toyota as opposed to the Lexus. That's what never really made sense to me.

Academics is rather subjective though. You pay for the people you meet in college as well as the perception of your degree by people you meet after graduation.

Friend started a two year school in Arkansas. The instructor told the students to not think they were getting the same information as students at Harvard because they were using the same textbook the course used at Harvard and they would cover the entire text. The instructor was a retired professor who had written the text and retired to a lake side home in Arkansas and would teach a class a semester just because he wanted to.

They may have learned the same things but they certainly didn't meet the same people nor gain the same reaction from their degree.
04-10-2018 01:15 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 01:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 12:37 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-09-2018 10:35 PM)bullet Wrote:  In my public HS in suburban DFW, there was some of that. The girl who told me, "I'm only going to SMU because they gave me a full ride"(i.e. only the eastern privates were good enough). People who asked me, "Why are you going to Texas when you have a national merit scholarship!?"
(why not when it was cheap-the scholarship didn't pay everything-and was 1st or 2nd in the country in my field-shuffling back and forth with Frank's Illinois for the top spot).

Oh yeah - I personally never understood the idea of paying a lot for the sake of paying a lot.

Designer fashion, luxury automakers, jewelry stores, and high end electronics makers don't like your attitude.

Ha! I certainly get it. I gave the Lexus vs. Toyota comparison because that's honestly ME. Logic says to buy the Toyota, but the heart says to buy the Lexus. I'm not a particularly brand-conscious person for most items, but I'll admit to being that way in the car area. My wife, on the other hand, doesn't give a crap about the brand as much as the actual features, dependability, etc. What I can afford today as a veteran attorney with no students loans is also a whole lot different than what I could afford 15 years ago as someone just coming out of law school with a ton of student loans, so that expands the array of choices.

To be sure, the Lexus has features that the Toyota doesn't have, so it's not as if though someone is paying for "nothing" in that scenario. In the college context, though, you do see a lot of people paying for "nothing". For the example of my co-worker's niece, Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD and UC Irvine are ALL straight up better academic schools than all of the way more expensive liberal arts schools that she applied to. It would actually be like paying *more* for the Toyota as opposed to the Lexus. That's what never really made sense to me.

Academics is rather subjective though. You pay for the people you meet in college as well as the perception of your degree by people you meet after graduation.

Friend started a two year school in Arkansas. The instructor told the students to not think they were getting the same information as students at Harvard because they were using the same textbook the course used at Harvard and they would cover the entire text. The instructor was a retired professor who had written the text and retired to a lake side home in Arkansas and would teach a class a semester just because he wanted to.

They may have learned the same things but they certainly didn't meet the same people nor gain the same reaction from their degree.

Sure - there's no doubt that a lot of academia is based on subjective perception. My hangup isn't so much choosing Harvard over even the best in-state public flagships like Berkeley or Michigan. The "who you know" advantage of who you meet when you attend Harvard is even more important than the "what you know" knowledge that you receive from the classes themselves. So, those Ivy-level schools have both an academic reputation advantage along with a subjective social networking advantage.

It's more of when you see someone like my co-worker's daughter refuse to look at higher-ranked UC schools in favor of liberal arts schools that are (a) more expensive and (b) less reputable academically. Now, there are certain teaching advantages of a liberal arts college (e.g. smaller class sizes, all classes taught by professors instead of graduate students TAs, etc.), but the subjective networking advantages aren't as clear (whereas they're very clear at an Ivy-level school). Most businesses in the Los Angeles area look very favorably upon a UCSD or UC-Irvine degree (much less one from Berkeley or UCLA) and it's not clear that a degree from a non-Williams/Swarthmore/Amherst-level liberal arts college confers any advantage, so you have to question the value proposition of paying more for the latter.

Of course, the pricing for college is anything but transparent. School A could be a great deal with one family with scholarships and/or need-based financial aid and a terrible deal for another family, while School B could be the exact opposite. So, I'm just speaking in generalities based on sticker prices. If the actual price being paid for a school is much less than the sticker price, then that changes the calculation quite a bit. It all comes down to the offers that an individual has specifically received since they could vary greatly from person-to-person. College pricing is like an airplane flight: everyone has paid a totally different price for his/her seat.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2018 01:37 PM by Frank the Tank.)
04-10-2018 01:36 PM
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teamvsn Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bennett College in trouble

Marlboro College in trouble

Morthland College Financial woes
Morthland dropped all sports last year.

Edinboro's problems

San Diego Christian troubles

Saint Michael's Vermont cut staff

d1 Rider University financial woes

D3 Middolebury's financial woes

D1 Bethune-Cookman's financial woes

Stillman's financial woes

Keene State

Alderson Broaderous

Jackson State

Northland College

SUNY Poly

D1 Wright State

Moody Bible

Omaha financial issues at D1

Birmingham Southern to reduce tuition by 50%

Lincoln Missouri

South University faces sale

UMass. Boston financial woes

University of Dallas

University of Hartford

Sainnt Gregory's legal issues

Albany State financial woes

https://www.educationdive.com/news/financial-woes-continue-to-plague-colleges-of-all-sizes/445292/

Spelman College

Burlington College closed

Atlanta Metro State woes

Texas Southern

University of California debt

Dartmouth

Morehouse College

Westminster Utah Success Bucking Trends

Quincy University

Ithaca College

Ashland struggles

Arkansas Baptist woes

Colby Sawyer

Virginia Intermont woes

Spring Hill

Loyola New Orleans fiancial woes

Sarah Lawrence, Know, Wheaton and Gonzaga with others struggling with enrollment

The link above also list Iowa Wesleyan, Georgetown Kentucky, Coe, Franklin Pierce,
Mid-Continent closes, Yeshiva University, Chatham University, Saint Elizabeth, St. Augustine’s University,

Montana State

I think that schools may need to move around to get better exposure to recruit new schools. We could even see more schools at all levels closed or merged with others. Radford, Mount Mary and some others at the D1 are in trouble themselves and could close down.

Some of the links above are absurdly old. Virginia Intermont closed already. The Ashland article is 4 years old. The 2nd to last one is 4 years old. Schools financial statuses can change pretty quickly. If there's nothing newer than a year old, it's "old news".
04-10-2018 01:38 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-09-2018 04:24 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  You got to wonder when several small D3 schools close down or merge with another? Maybe we see all the D3 Wisconsin State schools moved up to D2, and the large D3 state schools moving up? Would the large D3 schools like NYU, M.I.T, Johns Hopkins, RIT, U. of Chicago, Emory, Washington, Mo., Carnegie Mellon, Clark, Clarkson, Case Western and some others decide to buy and merged the struggling colleges into them? Would Case Western Reserves merged with Oberlin and renamed the campus Case Western Reserve-Oberlin? Plus, would these large privates in D3 decides it is becoming too risky to stay in D3 with many failing schools that are about to close down and all that that they move to D2? We are already seeing several schools close in the past several years like Lon Morris, Saint Joseph's Indiana, Dana, Lambuth, Grace in Nebraska, Mount Ida, Saint Catherine in Kentucky, Saint Gregory's in Oklahoma and several others.

I've been a student at one school on your list and have a Masters degree from another on your list.

First of all. Lets discuss the UAA schools. These are extremely well regarded, top-tier Universities that are fantastically rich. If say, U of Chicago wanted to go D1/FBS, they could do so - tomorrow. They don't see big name athletics as a good investment. And why would they? They have excellent reputations and don't need to lose 40 million a year on athletics. Trying to compare, say Lambuth, with Carnegie Mellon is risible.

Then, lets discuss Oberlin. A school that has an acceptance rate of 27 percent and an endowment of over 250,000 for each student. They are experiencing a lower enrollment rate among the students that apply to their school and are accepted right now. The reason for that is that the school has a focus that is currently out of favor. They'll be fine. There are many schools playing FBS that would love to 'struggle' like Oberlin.
04-10-2018 01:52 PM
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Post: #53
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 01:36 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 01:15 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 12:37 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 12:02 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 11:24 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Oh yeah - I personally never understood the idea of paying a lot for the sake of paying a lot.

Designer fashion, luxury automakers, jewelry stores, and high end electronics makers don't like your attitude.

Ha! I certainly get it. I gave the Lexus vs. Toyota comparison because that's honestly ME. Logic says to buy the Toyota, but the heart says to buy the Lexus. I'm not a particularly brand-conscious person for most items, but I'll admit to being that way in the car area. My wife, on the other hand, doesn't give a crap about the brand as much as the actual features, dependability, etc. What I can afford today as a veteran attorney with no students loans is also a whole lot different than what I could afford 15 years ago as someone just coming out of law school with a ton of student loans, so that expands the array of choices.

To be sure, the Lexus has features that the Toyota doesn't have, so it's not as if though someone is paying for "nothing" in that scenario. In the college context, though, you do see a lot of people paying for "nothing". For the example of my co-worker's niece, Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD and UC Irvine are ALL straight up better academic schools than all of the way more expensive liberal arts schools that she applied to. It would actually be like paying *more* for the Toyota as opposed to the Lexus. That's what never really made sense to me.

Academics is rather subjective though. You pay for the people you meet in college as well as the perception of your degree by people you meet after graduation.

Friend started a two year school in Arkansas. The instructor told the students to not think they were getting the same information as students at Harvard because they were using the same textbook the course used at Harvard and they would cover the entire text. The instructor was a retired professor who had written the text and retired to a lake side home in Arkansas and would teach a class a semester just because he wanted to.

They may have learned the same things but they certainly didn't meet the same people nor gain the same reaction from their degree.

Sure - there's no doubt that a lot of academia is based on subjective perception. My hangup isn't so much choosing Harvard over even the best in-state public flagships like Berkeley or Michigan. The "who you know" advantage of who you meet when you attend Harvard is even more important than the "what you know" knowledge that you receive from the classes themselves. So, those Ivy-level schools have both an academic reputation advantage along with a subjective social networking advantage.

It's more of when you see someone like my co-worker's daughter refuse to look at higher-ranked UC schools in favor of liberal arts schools that are (a) more expensive and (b) less reputable academically. Now, there are certain teaching advantages of a liberal arts college (e.g. smaller class sizes, all classes taught by professors instead of graduate students TAs, etc.), but the subjective networking advantages aren't as clear (whereas they're very clear at an Ivy-level school). Most businesses in the Los Angeles area look very favorably upon a UCSD or UC-Irvine degree (much less one from Berkeley or UCLA) and it's not clear that a degree from a non-Williams/Swarthmore/Amherst-level liberal arts college confers any advantage, so you have to question the value proposition of paying more for the latter.

Of course, the pricing for college is anything but transparent. School A could be a great deal with one family with scholarships and/or need-based financial aid and a terrible deal for another family, while School B could be the exact opposite. So, I'm just speaking in generalities based on sticker prices. If the actual price being paid for a school is much less than the sticker price, then that changes the calculation quite a bit. It all comes down to the offers that an individual has specifically received since they could vary greatly from person-to-person. College pricing is like an airplane flight: everyone has paid a totally different price for his/her seat.

Private colleges are notorious for sticker prices that no one actually pays.
04-10-2018 02:09 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 01:04 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Virginia Intermont woes

I think that schools may need to move around to get better exposure to recruit new schools. We could even see more schools at all levels closed or merged with others. Radford, Mount Mary and some others at the D1 are in trouble themselves and could close down.

1. Virginia Intermont closed four years ago, a year after Saint Paul's closed.
2. Where are you getting that Radford is in trouble? I mean, they did shut down a few weeks ago, but that was for snow.


I meant Rider.
04-10-2018 02:34 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 01:38 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bennett College in trouble

Marlboro College in trouble

Morthland College Financial woes
Morthland dropped all sports last year.

Edinboro's problems

San Diego Christian troubles

Saint Michael's Vermont cut staff

d1 Rider University financial woes

D3 Middolebury's financial woes

D1 Bethune-Cookman's financial woes

Stillman's financial woes

Keene State

Alderson Broaderous

Jackson State

Northland College

SUNY Poly

D1 Wright State

Moody Bible

Omaha financial issues at D1

Birmingham Southern to reduce tuition by 50%

Lincoln Missouri

South University faces sale

UMass. Boston financial woes

University of Dallas

University of Hartford

Sainnt Gregory's legal issues

Albany State financial woes

https://www.educationdive.com/news/financial-woes-continue-to-plague-colleges-of-all-sizes/445292/

Spelman College

Burlington College closed

Atlanta Metro State woes

Texas Southern

University of California debt

Dartmouth

Morehouse College

Westminster Utah Success Bucking Trends

Quincy University

Ithaca College

Ashland struggles

Arkansas Baptist woes

Colby Sawyer

Virginia Intermont woes

Spring Hill

Loyola New Orleans fiancial woes

Sarah Lawrence, Know, Wheaton and Gonzaga with others struggling with enrollment

The link above also list Iowa Wesleyan, Georgetown Kentucky, Coe, Franklin Pierce,
Mid-Continent closes, Yeshiva University, Chatham University, Saint Elizabeth, St. Augustine’s University,

Montana State

I think that schools may need to move around to get better exposure to recruit new schools. We could even see more schools at all levels closed or merged with others. Radford, Mount Mary and some others at the D1 are in trouble themselves and could close down.

Some of the links above are absurdly old. Virginia Intermont closed already. The Ashland article is 4 years old. The 2nd to last one is 4 years old. Schools financial statuses can change pretty quickly. If there's nothing newer than a year old, it's "old news".


I listed them because they are most recent. I was talking about schools closed down in the last 10 years as a way to give examples that more are on the rise. As for many of these schools, mostly HBCUs, they are in a lot worst shape than what we know. If some public and private ones failed? It may be because they are in the same town with a well known university like Stillman have to compete with University of Alabama or a school like Columbia Missouri competing with the University of Missouri. I do think schools like Jackson State, Tennessee State, Bethune-Cookman, Alabama State, Albany State, Savannah State and others should be in a much better conference to actually attract students. HBCUs at the higher level may have to break the old ways to be better/
04-10-2018 02:42 PM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 02:42 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 01:38 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Bennett College in trouble

Marlboro College in trouble

Morthland College Financial woes
Morthland dropped all sports last year.

Edinboro's problems

San Diego Christian troubles

Saint Michael's Vermont cut staff

d1 Rider University financial woes

D3 Middolebury's financial woes

D1 Bethune-Cookman's financial woes

Stillman's financial woes

Keene State

Alderson Broaderous

Jackson State

Northland College

SUNY Poly

D1 Wright State

Moody Bible

Omaha financial issues at D1

Birmingham Southern to reduce tuition by 50%

Lincoln Missouri

South University faces sale

UMass. Boston financial woes

University of Dallas

University of Hartford

Sainnt Gregory's legal issues

Albany State financial woes

https://www.educationdive.com/news/financial-woes-continue-to-plague-colleges-of-all-sizes/445292/

Spelman College

Burlington College closed

Atlanta Metro State woes

Texas Southern

University of California debt

Dartmouth

Morehouse College

Westminster Utah Success Bucking Trends

Quincy University

Ithaca College

Ashland struggles

Arkansas Baptist woes

Colby Sawyer

Virginia Intermont woes

Spring Hill

Loyola New Orleans fiancial woes

Sarah Lawrence, Know, Wheaton and Gonzaga with others struggling with enrollment

The link above also list Iowa Wesleyan, Georgetown Kentucky, Coe, Franklin Pierce,
Mid-Continent closes, Yeshiva University, Chatham University, Saint Elizabeth, St. Augustine’s University,

Montana State

I think that schools may need to move around to get better exposure to recruit new schools. We could even see more schools at all levels closed or merged with others. Radford, Mount Mary and some others at the D1 are in trouble themselves and could close down.

Some of the links above are absurdly old. Virginia Intermont closed already. The Ashland article is 4 years old. The 2nd to last one is 4 years old. Schools financial statuses can change pretty quickly. If there's nothing newer than a year old, it's "old news".


I listed them because they are most recent. I was talking about schools closed down in the last 10 years as a way to give examples that more are on the rise. As for many of these schools, mostly HBCUs, they are in a lot worst shape than what we know. If some public and private ones failed? It may be because they are in the same town with a well known university like Stillman have to compete with University of Alabama or a school like Columbia Missouri competing with the University of Missouri. I do think schools like Jackson State, Tennessee State, Bethune-Cookman, Alabama State, Albany State, Savannah State and others should be in a much better conference to actually attract students. HBCUs at the higher level may have to break the old ways to be better/

Savannah State is a notoriously poorly run school and they are dropping back down to D2 this year. It's a shame too. If they had administration that cared or knew what they were doing, they could be like FAMU or Southern easy.
04-10-2018 02:54 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 11:44 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-09-2018 08:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Private schools that have prestige factor and who land their alumni in profitable places will continue to be able to charge top dollar for tuition. Oberlin apparently is sliding in reputation among the population they target. As some have touched on, Oberlin puts the LIBERAL in liberal arts. They are looking for students whose parents have deep pockets and who have already developed a very liberal worldview. One of two things needs to happen for Oberlin--regain their status or cut tuition.

For a cautionary tail of where they might be headed Oberlin needs to look no further than former fellow 6 Colleges of Ohio Member Antioch. Located in Yellow Springs, a town my father-in-law calls Red Springs or Commie Springs, they too catered to hyper-liberal rich students and they have gone the way of the dodo.

Eh - I wouldn't put too much stock into that narrative. The Ivy League schools and pretty much all of the schools in the top 25 of the US News rankings other than maybe Notre Dame are super liberal universities and they're getting record high applications with record low acceptance rates (and that's despite the number of high school grads declining). It's more about a flight to quality at the high end and finding value elsewhere. Harvard and Oberlin have the same sticker price for tuition, so of course Harvard wins that battle easily. That then brings into question whether paying for Oberlin is worth it over paying for, say, Ohio State or Miami University. How much financial aid does Oberlin need to provide to be competitive in that marketplace? Does Oberlin have to increase its acceptance rate to get its target enrollment? Like I've said previously, Oberlin's acceptance rate is under 30%, so it's not as if though it's not attracting applicants. It's more about the fact that the types of students that Oberlin wants often have a lot of choices ranging from Ivy-level schools to public flagships to high scholarship amounts.

At least Oberlin has the endowment and application flexibility to meet enrollment numbers if enrollment in and of itself is the goal. Other schools that DavidSt has listed (and I'll give him credit here for posting very interesting information here) don't have that ability at all. *Those* types of schools are the ones that are truly in danger. Like much of the rest of society, the "winners" in the college marketplace are getting more applications and students than ever, while others are being left behind in the wake of declining high school grad numbers.

Its true in most marketplaces. Its just taken a little longer to get to colleges. You have the mega-firms, the high end boutiques, the low end, a few specialty shops while the vast middle is getting wiped out. Its even true with Accounting firms. JC Penney's or Sear's is a tough place to be in the marketplace.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2018 04:53 PM by bullet.)
04-10-2018 04:49 PM
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mikeinsec127 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-10-2018 02:34 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 01:04 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-10-2018 12:44 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Virginia Intermont woes

I think that schools may need to move around to get better exposure to recruit new schools. We could even see more schools at all levels closed or merged with others. Radford, Mount Mary and some others at the D1 are in trouble themselves and could close down.

1. Virginia Intermont closed four years ago, a year after Saint Paul's closed.
2. Where are you getting that Radford is in trouble? I mean, they did shut down a few weeks ago, but that was for snow.


I meant Rider.

Rider's financial woes started when it bought the failing Westminster Choir College in Princeton. It was never able to fully integrate the two campuses or alter the culture of either school to accept the other. Now, after years of bleeding money to key the Westminster campus open, it has offered to sell that property to Princeton (the town I think) and will move the choir college onto the Lawrenceville campus.
04-10-2018 08:28 PM
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McKinney Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
UMass is going to have to fight tooth and nail to acquire Mt. Ida. What else is new.

The Massachusetts Board of Higher Ed is now requesting information from Mt. Ida's on their plan to shut down the campus. There was an op-ed piece in the Globe on the subject and how this deal is racist. 01-wingedeagle

[Image: tMSw1TG.png]
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018...story.html

I really hope we come out on top when this is over. Mount Ida - while seemingly a spontaneous acquisition - is a crucial step in UMass' goal to become an AAU-type elite institution. The campus will be used for continuing education programs and I believe will support housing for internship opportunities in Boston. It is planned to also be a career center for alumni and soon-to-be grads for networking, counseling, etc. If this is successful in developing a larger talent-pipeline for Boston's growing STEM and financial fields it would be astronomical to the university's STEM and business programs, not only in prestige and job opportunities (re: rankings) but also in terms of research opportunities.

This will also be beneficial as a home-away-from-home to a large portion of STEM researchers at the university who work on projects with companies in the Boston area (particularly in the biotech and defense industries), but perform a large portion of their research in Amherst and obviously lecture in Amherst. Allowing for greater collaboration.
(This post was last modified: 04-11-2018 01:05 AM by McKinney.)
04-11-2018 12:28 AM
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Post: #60
RE: Colleges Acquired Or Merging News
(04-11-2018 12:28 AM)McKinney Wrote:  UMass is going to have to fight tooth and nail to acquire Mt. Ida. What else is new.

The Massachusetts Board of Higher Ed is now requesting information from Mt. Ida's on their plan to shut down the campus. There was an op-ed piece in the Globe on the subject and how this deal is racist. 01-wingedeagle

[Image: tMSw1TG.png]
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2018...story.html

I really hope we come out on top when this is over. Mount Ida - while seemingly a spontaneous acquisition - is a crucial step in UMass' goal to become an AAU-type elite institution. The campus will be used for continuing education programs and I believe will support housing for internship opportunities in Boston. It is planned to also be a career center for alumni and soon-to-be grads for networking, counseling, etc. If this is successful in developing a larger talent-pipeline for Boston's growing STEM and financial fields it would be astronomical to the university's STEM and business programs, not only in prestige and job opportunities (re: rankings) but also in terms of research opportunities.

This will also be beneficial as a home-away-from-home to a large portion of STEM researchers at the university who work on projects with companies in the Boston area (particularly in the biotech and defense industries), but perform a large portion of their research in Amherst and obviously lecture in Amherst. Allowing for greater collaboration.

Maybe they should have followed the Lambuth model. Board voted to close the school. UMemphis came in and acquired the property for an extension campus. Part of the deal if I remember correctly was UMemphis agreed to take over maintaining the Lambuth transcripts.
04-11-2018 09:46 AM
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