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Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #381
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-07-2018 09:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 08:23 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 05:57 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 04:02 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 12:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  To be honest, this board has a very low level knowledge of statistical analysis. Im not sure why that is. There are other college basketball forums that are much more sophisticated in that respect.

How do you know what other people are aware of when you don't know them personally?

Not meaning to indicate that you were addressing me personally, but my professional background is in Engineering having several decades working in that field. Obviously I have used numbers - statistical analysis - routinely in the course of my work. That said, everything has its limitations and stats are normally just another tool in the box so to speak and not the end of the story.

Just curious, I've shared with you .... what's your profession?

Can only go by what you read. Like Monarchs point that players magically rise to the occasion.

I work in real estate. The extent of my stats knoweldge is all the stats classes at OdU and reading on the internet.
Jesus. You claim to have played sports at a reasonably high level and you do t believe that certain players perform better in big moments? Step away from the Stat sheet and watch a few games... Any sport will do.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I did. And still understand sample size.

Clearly, you don't.
06-08-2018 08:23 AM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #382
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-08-2018 08:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 09:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 08:23 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 05:57 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 04:02 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  How do you know what other people are aware of when you don't know them personally?

Not meaning to indicate that you were addressing me personally, but my professional background is in Engineering having several decades working in that field. Obviously I have used numbers - statistical analysis - routinely in the course of my work. That said, everything has its limitations and stats are normally just another tool in the box so to speak and not the end of the story.

Just curious, I've shared with you .... what's your profession?

Can only go by what you read. Like Monarchs point that players magically rise to the occasion.

I work in real estate. The extent of my stats knoweldge is all the stats classes at OdU and reading on the internet.
Jesus. You claim to have played sports at a reasonably high level and you do t believe that certain players perform better in big moments? Step away from the Stat sheet and watch a few games... Any sport will do.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I did. And still understand sample size.

Do you understand that regular season statistics include the fact that a player does not play with 100% focus and effort for every minute of an 80+ game season? Do they account for the fact that opponents do not play defense at the same level during the regular season as they do in the playoffs? Do they account for the pressure of making a big shot when the season is on the? The increased effort of defenses in the final minutes of a close game in the finals? It is so insane that you are unwilling to recognize all the circumstances that exist in real world sports that to some extent invalidate your large sample size stats.

When players have a big enough postseason or clutch sample, they revert to their mean. I remember when Ovechkin was considered a choker. The problem is uneducated people take a small postseason sample and try to claim that players are clutch or not clutch. I also find the argument comical like a player doesn't try at certain points, but then tries in the postseason. I guess Durant didn't try on the other 17 3 point attempts, but has laser like focus on the last one!

Its like the Derek Jeter is clutch nonsense. The dude's regular season and post season numbers are almost identical with him playing almost a full season worth of post season games.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen...ed/258179/
06-08-2018 10:46 AM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #383
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-08-2018 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-08-2018 08:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 09:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 08:23 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 05:57 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Can only go by what you read. Like Monarchs point that players magically rise to the occasion.

I work in real estate. The extent of my stats knoweldge is all the stats classes at OdU and reading on the internet.
Jesus. You claim to have played sports at a reasonably high level and you do t believe that certain players perform better in big moments? Step away from the Stat sheet and watch a few games... Any sport will do.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I did. And still understand sample size.

Do you understand that regular season statistics include the fact that a player does not play with 100% focus and effort for every minute of an 80+ game season? Do they account for the fact that opponents do not play defense at the same level during the regular season as they do in the playoffs? Do they account for the pressure of making a big shot when the season is on the? The increased effort of defenses in the final minutes of a close game in the finals? It is so insane that you are unwilling to recognize all the circumstances that exist in real world sports that to some extent invalidate your large sample size stats.

When players have a big enough postseason or clutch sample, they revert to their mean. I remember when Ovechkin was considered a choker. The problem is uneducated people take a small postseason sample and try to claim that players are clutch or not clutch. I also find the argument comical like a player doesn't try at certain points, but then tries in the postseason. I guess Durant didn't try on the other 17 3 point attempts, but has laser like focus on the last one!

Its like the Derek Jeter is clutch nonsense. The dude's regular season and post season numbers are almost identical with him playing almost a full season worth of post season games.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen...ed/258179/

*woosh*
06-08-2018 02:18 PM
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Post: #384
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-08-2018 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-08-2018 08:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 09:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 08:23 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 05:57 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Can only go by what you read. Like Monarchs point that players magically rise to the occasion.

I work in real estate. The extent of my stats knoweldge is all the stats classes at OdU and reading on the internet.
Jesus. You claim to have played sports at a reasonably high level and you do t believe that certain players perform better in big moments? Step away from the Stat sheet and watch a few games... Any sport will do.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I did. And still understand sample size.

Do you understand that regular season statistics include the fact that a player does not play with 100% focus and effort for every minute of an 80+ game season? Do they account for the fact that opponents do not play defense at the same level during the regular season as they do in the playoffs? Do they account for the pressure of making a big shot when the season is on the? The increased effort of defenses in the final minutes of a close game in the finals? It is so insane that you are unwilling to recognize all the circumstances that exist in real world sports that to some extent invalidate your large sample size stats.

When players have a big enough postseason or clutch sample, they revert to their mean. I remember when Ovechkin was considered a choker. The problem is uneducated people take a small postseason sample and try to claim that players are clutch or not clutch. I also find the argument comical like a player doesn't try at certain points, but then tries in the postseason. I guess Durant didn't try on the other 17 3 point attempts, but has laser like focus on the last one!

Its like the Derek Jeter is clutch nonsense. The dude's regular season and post season numbers are almost identical with him playing almost a full season worth of post season games.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen...ed/258179/

You seem to think athletes are robots. Of course they don't bring the same level of focus in every game of an 80+ game season when there is often nothing on the line. To think otherwise is to be completely naive to the human condition.
06-08-2018 03:21 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #385
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-08-2018 03:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-08-2018 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-08-2018 08:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 09:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 08:23 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Jesus. You claim to have played sports at a reasonably high level and you do t believe that certain players perform better in big moments? Step away from the Stat sheet and watch a few games... Any sport will do.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I did. And still understand sample size.

Do you understand that regular season statistics include the fact that a player does not play with 100% focus and effort for every minute of an 80+ game season? Do they account for the fact that opponents do not play defense at the same level during the regular season as they do in the playoffs? Do they account for the pressure of making a big shot when the season is on the? The increased effort of defenses in the final minutes of a close game in the finals? It is so insane that you are unwilling to recognize all the circumstances that exist in real world sports that to some extent invalidate your large sample size stats.

When players have a big enough postseason or clutch sample, they revert to their mean. I remember when Ovechkin was considered a choker. The problem is uneducated people take a small postseason sample and try to claim that players are clutch or not clutch. I also find the argument comical like a player doesn't try at certain points, but then tries in the postseason. I guess Durant didn't try on the other 17 3 point attempts, but has laser like focus on the last one!

Its like the Derek Jeter is clutch nonsense. The dude's regular season and post season numbers are almost identical with him playing almost a full season worth of post season games.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen...ed/258179/

You seem to think athletes are robots. Of course they don't bring the same level of focus in every game of an 80+ game season when there is often nothing on the line. To think otherwise is to be completely naive to the human condition.

The orioles were a playoff team 2 years ago and schoop and Chris Davis were studs. They were locked in.

This year’s team is the worst in baseball and none of the guys outside of machado (who is playing for a huge contract) looks like they want to be there at all.

Same guys, same team, same ballpark, completely different focus (or lack thereof) and intensity.

Only an idiot would argue that players play with the exact same focus every year, every game.

Absolutely absurd.

Also pretending like “being clutch” doesn’t exist either is just beyond laughable and barely worth responding too.
06-08-2018 04:00 PM
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Post: #386
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-08-2018 03:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-08-2018 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-08-2018 08:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 09:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 08:23 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Jesus. You claim to have played sports at a reasonably high level and you do t believe that certain players perform better in big moments? Step away from the Stat sheet and watch a few games... Any sport will do.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I did. And still understand sample size.

Do you understand that regular season statistics include the fact that a player does not play with 100% focus and effort for every minute of an 80+ game season? Do they account for the fact that opponents do not play defense at the same level during the regular season as they do in the playoffs? Do they account for the pressure of making a big shot when the season is on the? The increased effort of defenses in the final minutes of a close game in the finals? It is so insane that you are unwilling to recognize all the circumstances that exist in real world sports that to some extent invalidate your large sample size stats.

When players have a big enough postseason or clutch sample, they revert to their mean. I remember when Ovechkin was considered a choker. The problem is uneducated people take a small postseason sample and try to claim that players are clutch or not clutch. I also find the argument comical like a player doesn't try at certain points, but then tries in the postseason. I guess Durant didn't try on the other 17 3 point attempts, but has laser like focus on the last one!

Its like the Derek Jeter is clutch nonsense. The dude's regular season and post season numbers are almost identical with him playing almost a full season worth of post season games.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen...ed/258179/

You seem to think athletes are robots. Of course they don't bring the same level of focus in every game of an 80+ game season when there is often nothing on the line. To think otherwise is to be completely naive to the human condition.

You continue to not understand sample size. Unless you believe players are not trying in half the games.
06-08-2018 04:22 PM
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Post: #387
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-08-2018 04:22 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  You continue to not understand sample size. Unless you believe players are not trying in half the games.

My non-statistical impression is that Zoran Talley was not trying half of the time that he was on the court.
06-08-2018 06:04 PM
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Post: #388
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-08-2018 04:22 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-08-2018 03:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-08-2018 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-08-2018 08:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(06-07-2018 09:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I did. And still understand sample size.

Do you understand that regular season statistics include the fact that a player does not play with 100% focus and effort for every minute of an 80+ game season? Do they account for the fact that opponents do not play defense at the same level during the regular season as they do in the playoffs? Do they account for the pressure of making a big shot when the season is on the? The increased effort of defenses in the final minutes of a close game in the finals? It is so insane that you are unwilling to recognize all the circumstances that exist in real world sports that to some extent invalidate your large sample size stats.

When players have a big enough postseason or clutch sample, they revert to their mean. I remember when Ovechkin was considered a choker. The problem is uneducated people take a small postseason sample and try to claim that players are clutch or not clutch. I also find the argument comical like a player doesn't try at certain points, but then tries in the postseason. I guess Durant didn't try on the other 17 3 point attempts, but has laser like focus on the last one!

Its like the Derek Jeter is clutch nonsense. The dude's regular season and post season numbers are almost identical with him playing almost a full season worth of post season games.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen...ed/258179/

You seem to think athletes are robots. Of course they don't bring the same level of focus in every game of an 80+ game season when there is often nothing on the line. To think otherwise is to be completely naive to the human condition.

You continue to not understand sample size. Unless you believe players are not trying in half the games.

Did I say they are not trying in half the games? Nice try, but my implication is that it is not reasonable to expect that human beings are bringing 100% focus and 100% energy for every minute of a very long season. It is reasonable to expect that they are getting much closer to that in post season, and even more reasonable to expect that they are able to produce at that level during the most important moments of a very important post season game. If you can't understand that, you can't understand sports as a whole.
06-11-2018 09:04 AM
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Post: #389
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
Its funny that people that have data to prove theories "don't understand sports as a whole."

There are several fallacies with your point of view. The main ones being:

1) A player would have to "not have mental focus" over a significant sample in order for it to affect their numbers. And if that is the case, would they even be playing if they spend a significant portion of the season "half assing?"

2) The judgement over the postseason would have to have a significant sample in order to come to the conclusion that a player is clutch. Over time (enough of a sample) players revert to their typical numbers.

I know you don't want to believe it. I get it. We've been told our whole lives that players step up in the clutch and Derek Jeter is clutch and Arod isn't, etc. Its been proven false over and over again. There was a time when people had to come to the realization that the world was not flat either (though Kyrie still thinks differently).
06-11-2018 10:04 AM
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Post: #390
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-11-2018 10:04 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Its funny that people that have data to prove theories "don't understand sports as a whole."

There are several fallacies with your point of view. The main ones being:

1) A player would have to "not have mental focus" over a significant sample in order for it to affect their numbers. And if that is the case, would they even be playing if they spend a significant portion of the season "half assing?"

2) The judgement over the postseason would have to have a significant sample in order to come to the conclusion that a player is clutch. Over time (enough of a sample) players revert to their typical numbers.

I know you don't want to believe it. I get it. We've been told our whole lives that players step up in the clutch and Derek Jeter is clutch and Arod isn't, etc. Its been proven false over and over again. There was a time when people had to come to the realization that the world was not flat either (though Kyrie still thinks differently).

I would love to have some postseason samples by which to judge JJ's players. Unfortunately, there aren't any.

Giles, you are magic at crunching numbers (even though the numbers of current players are likely inflated by weak competition, as shown by the number of quality wins in recent seasons). In any case, the only numbers that many of us care about are "0" NCAA bids in "7" years. That needs to change soon.
06-11-2018 02:41 PM
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Post: #391
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-11-2018 02:41 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(06-11-2018 10:04 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Its funny that people that have data to prove theories "don't understand sports as a whole."

There are several fallacies with your point of view. The main ones being:

1) A player would have to "not have mental focus" over a significant sample in order for it to affect their numbers. And if that is the case, would they even be playing if they spend a significant portion of the season "half assing?"

2) The judgement over the postseason would have to have a significant sample in order to come to the conclusion that a player is clutch. Over time (enough of a sample) players revert to their typical numbers.

I know you don't want to believe it. I get it. We've been told our whole lives that players step up in the clutch and Derek Jeter is clutch and Arod isn't, etc. Its been proven false over and over again. There was a time when people had to come to the realization that the world was not flat either (though Kyrie still thinks differently).

I would love to have some postseason samples by which to judge JJ's players. Unfortunately, there aren't any.

Giles, you are magic at crunching numbers (even though the numbers of current players are likely inflated by weak competition, as shown by the number of quality wins in recent seasons). In any case, the only numbers that many of us care about are "0" NCAA bids in "7" years. That needs to change soon.

Im not sure why you were compelled to interject things that don't apply to the topic at hand in even the least bit. Just an avenue to bring up Jones in order to criticize?
06-11-2018 03:14 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #392
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-11-2018 10:04 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Its funny that people that have data to prove theories "don't understand sports as a whole."

The problem that I see in your commentary is that you are more often than not speaking in the absolute when you voice something abstract. A better and more accurate way to put your statement above would be, "Its funny that people that have data to support their theories "don't understand sports as a whole." If you had proof it wouldn't be a "theory".
(This post was last modified: 06-11-2018 03:23 PM by ODU BBALL.)
06-11-2018 03:22 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #393
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-11-2018 03:22 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(06-11-2018 10:04 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Its funny that people that have data to prove theories "don't understand sports as a whole."

The problem that I see in your commentary is that you are more often than not speaking in the absolute when you voice something abstract. A better and more accurate way to put your statement above would be, "Its funny that people that have data to support their theories "don't understand sports as a whole." If you had proof it wouldn't be a "theory".

He is a joke and his arguments continually strain any semblance of credibility.

Anyone who can’t acknowledge that being able to raise your game in the most important moments is what separates great ones from regular old superstars is just not worth taking seriously.

Golf is a perfect example. Jack Nicklaus and tiger woods in their primes were diamonds under pressure any many of their opponents would crack when they were playing directly against them in a tourney.

This isn’t even remotely up for debate.
06-11-2018 05:15 PM
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Post: #394
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
Declaring something "isn't up for debate" while providing no substantiating evidence is considered what?

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(This post was last modified: 06-12-2018 09:24 AM by T-Mac.)
06-12-2018 09:24 AM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #395
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-12-2018 09:24 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Declaring something "isn't up for debate" while providing no substantiating evidence is considered what?

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I provided evidence. Do you want me to go through the list of guys who wilted against tiger or Nicklaus in the final round because the pressure got to them?

Or you could just do some actual research yourself.......nah no one would ever expect that from you.

Also the orioles analogy was spot on as well.

Like it or not, motivation and focus MATTER in sports. Anyone who argues otherwise is never to be taken seriously.
06-12-2018 02:25 PM
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Post: #396
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
Names aren't substantiating evidence. You provided no statistical support for your claim. It's starting to make sense why you don't like Giles. I'm not sure you can differentiate between names and numbers.

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06-12-2018 03:54 PM
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Post: #397
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-12-2018 03:54 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Names aren't substantiating evidence. You provided no statistical support for your claim. It's starting to make sense why you don't like Giles. I'm not sure you can differentiate between names and numbers.

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Average player loses to great player......proof that clutch exists....
06-12-2018 09:27 PM
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Razor Ramon Monarch Offline
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Post: #398
RE: Michael Hueitt Jr. to transfer from ODU
(06-12-2018 09:27 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 03:54 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Names aren't substantiating evidence. You provided no statistical support for your claim. It's starting to make sense why you don't like Giles. I'm not sure you can differentiate between names and numbers.

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Average player loses to great player......proof that clutch exists....

Not surprising that this is the only analysis you can manage to cobble together from the crushing counter argument to your absurd assertion that clutchness doesn’t exist anywhere in sports.

By that logic trey freeman wasn’t clutch at all. Ridiculous.
06-12-2018 11:26 PM
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