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What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
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Fighting Muskie Online
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What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
Asking for a friend...also, what does the ACC look like?
04-04-2018 08:43 PM
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bluesox Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
Probably not that different than today. I would guess the acc would have added South Carolina after getting turned down by flordia state
04-04-2018 08:57 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
I believe FSU would be a 2nd tier SEC team. I don't think the ACC would have rejected South Carolina but I don't think they would have pursued theme either.

There was a concept of an ACC/BE football merger at the time. This may have gotten more traction if FSU did not come to the ACC.
04-04-2018 09:04 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-04-2018 09:04 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I believe FSU would be a 2nd tier SEC team. I don't think the ACC would have rejected South Carolina but I don't think they would have pursued theme either.

There was a concept of an ACC/BE football merger at the time. This may have gotten more traction if FSU did not come to the ACC.

I think you're right about the Big East football schools. The other school they were looking at in 91 was Syracuse. They could have easily added BC, Pitt, Cuse, and Miami to get 12 for football if the will was there. Maybe some of those become full members.

South Carolina probably has to settle for Metro football.
04-04-2018 09:10 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-04-2018 09:04 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I believe FSU would be a 2nd tier SEC team. I don't think the ACC would have rejected South Carolina but I don't think they would have pursued theme either.

There was a concept of an ACC/BE football merger at the time. This may have gotten more traction if FSU did not come to the ACC.

They wouldn't have been second tier. But if they had been placed in the East then that division at that time would have been the blood bath that the SEC West is now. Tennessee, Florida, Florida State and Georgia hammering it out in those years would have been epic.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2018 10:56 PM by JRsec.)
04-04-2018 09:23 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-04-2018 09:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-04-2018 09:04 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I believe FSU would be a 2nd tier SEC team. I don't think the ACC would have rejected South Carolina but I don't think they would have pursued theme either.

There was a concept of an ACC/BE football merger at the time. This may have gotten more traction if FSU did not come to the ACC.

The wouldn't have been second tier. But if they had been placed in the East then that division at that time would have been the blood bath that the SEC West is now. Tennessee, Florida, Florida State and Georgia hammering it out in those years would have been epic.

What trajectory do you see South Carolina taking if they don't get the SEC spot?

Does the SEC ever get crazy and go to 14 with South Carolina and Miami?
04-04-2018 09:51 PM
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
Even if the original ACC schools may have been reluctant, if FSU joined the SEC I think they would have bit the bullet and added BC, Pitt, Syracuse, and Miami. I'm not sure what South Carolina would have done.

FSU would still have been a power. The SEC East would have been a bloodbath but FSU was already good enough by that point to hang with the best of the SEC.

It would have created an interesting domino effect with schools like Rutgers, West Virginia, and Virginia Tech. I'm guessing those schools would have joined the new Conference uSA with Louisville, Cincinnati, Memphis etc. and had a very solid conference.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2018 10:12 PM by MKPitt.)
04-04-2018 10:07 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
If Bobbie Bowden is to be believed then FSU would probably not have achieved a lot of what it did.

I would think FSU would fall nicely under Georgia in the pecking order. Hey, there is always Vandy to bear up on, right?
04-04-2018 10:16 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-04-2018 09:51 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-04-2018 09:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-04-2018 09:04 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  I believe FSU would be a 2nd tier SEC team. I don't think the ACC would have rejected South Carolina but I don't think they would have pursued theme either.

There was a concept of an ACC/BE football merger at the time. This may have gotten more traction if FSU did not come to the ACC.

The wouldn't have been second tier. But if they had been placed in the East then that division at that time would have been the blood bath that the SEC West is now. Tennessee, Florida, Florida State and Georgia hammering it out in those years would have been epic.

What trajectory do you see South Carolina taking if they don't get the SEC spot?

Does the SEC ever get crazy and go to 14 with South Carolina and Miami?

Well back then the other targets were Texas, Texas A&M, Clemson, and Oklahoma to go along with Arkansas. So I think we would have taken Arkansas and Florida State, and when Clemson said no we might have waited on South Carolina but kept tabs on them Then when A&M joined we might have added South Carolina to get to 14. They would have taken the place of Clemson and the remaining targets from '91 would have been OU and UT. As things stand now Missouri is actually the substitute for Florida State and South Carolina the substitute for Clemson from the original list of those we agreed to seek. So of the original 6 that we pursued in '91 there are two subs and two to go.
04-04-2018 10:53 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-04-2018 10:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  If Bobbie Bowden is to be believed then FSU would probably not have achieved a lot of what it did.

I would think FSU would fall nicely under Georgia in the pecking order. Hey, there is always Vandy to bear up on, right?

In that division it's Vandy and Kentucky.
04-04-2018 10:54 PM
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Transic_nyc Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
Let's not forget that programs like UCF and USF were still in their infancy waiting for a move up. I think by around the 2000s the ACC would have seriously looked at adding either one of those programs. Getting into the Orlando area would have given them a major market to get future students from. Miami would still get in due to their profile.

As for Florida State it would be interesting to see who get in afterwards. Would the SEC still look at TAMU or would they put pressure on Georgia Tech to return and let Arkansas go to the Big 12? Florida State would probably want Georgia Tech for visits to Hotlanta. I think an Eastern division of FSU, UF, GA, GT, TN and KY would emerge, with the West being AL, Aub, LSU, OM, MSU and VU. South Carolina would either remain independent or go to the Big East with either USF or UCF and probably meekly rejoin the ACC later on.

Bowdon would have been replaced sooner as the competition in the SEC would have put too much pressure on him by alums and STHs.
04-04-2018 11:04 PM
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-04-2018 11:04 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Let's not forget that programs like UCF and USF were still in their infancy waiting for a move up. I think by around the 2000s the ACC would have seriously looked at adding either one of those programs. Getting into the Orlando area would have given them a major market to get future students from. Miami would still get in due to their profile.

As for Florida State it would be interesting to see who get in afterwards. Would the SEC still look at TAMU or would they put pressure on Georgia Tech to return and let Arkansas go to the Big 12? Florida State would probably want Georgia Tech for visits to Hotlanta. I think an Eastern division of FSU, UF, GA, GT, TN and KY would emerge, with the West being AL, Aub, LSU, OM, MSU and VU. South Carolina would either remain independent or go to the Big East with either USF or UCF and probably meekly rejoin the ACC later on.

Bowdon would have been replaced sooner as the competition in the SEC would have put too much pressure on him by alums and STHs.

I'm a big fan of Tech but simply because it is Auburn's closest and oldest rival. But the SEC determined in '91 they didn't add enough value to be considered. Georgia carries about 85% of the state and about half of Atlanta. Who might have been available by 2010 when we went to 14 might well have been A&M and South Carolina. But I'm pretty sure Georgia Tech wouldn't have been in the mix.

In '91 both West Virginia and Virginia Tech expressed interest in the SEC. If we land Arkansas and F.S.U. in '91 and South Carolina wanted in, the question in my mind is would we have considered moving on to 14 with Va Tech or W.V.U.? Both were considered too far away from the geographical center of the conference in '91 to really get much consideration. But Virginia Tech and South Carolina to bracket North Carolina would have been an interesting strategy.
04-04-2018 11:13 PM
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
something like this:

[Image: b04d0c9a-b163-4213-baa9-24af627d7cef_1.6...nBg=FFFFFF]
04-05-2018 02:13 AM
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XLance Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-04-2018 08:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Asking for a friend...also, what does the ACC look like?

The "other" choice of the ACC in '91 was Syracuse. The ACC would have pursued the Orange until they submitted to get to 9 and stop.

Then the question becomes "what happens to the Big East". Does Miami still go to the Big East?
To answer the original question re: FSU,
Sports, like women's soccer, that were added after joining the ACC wouldn't exist and perhaps the new medical school is placed somewhere else because the emphasis on academic growth wouldn't have had the same motivation.
FSU would not have developed it excellent all around sports program, but would have continued to be a football power.
04-05-2018 04:43 AM
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
With the BE's popularity in the 1980s, I don't think a BE/ACC football merger would've been possible in 1991. Assuming South Carolina had no interest in re-joining the ACC, I suspect they would've turned to the BE.
04-05-2018 10:02 AM
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bluesox Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
I don’t believe the acc would have stayed at 8 post FSU joining the sec with Arkansas. Also, don’t see the sec expanding past 12 at that time with anybody not named Texas or A&m who weren’t interested. Thus, the acc would be looking at syracuse, Miami and South Carolina for expansion. I could see them take all 3 but jumping to 10 with South Carolina and Miami would have made a good conference.
04-05-2018 10:19 AM
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
If FSU had joined the SEC at that time, the ACC likely would have invited Miami and probably Syracuse. With only Pitt and BC as Big East members with football, there would have never been a "Big East football conference".

FSU would have done well in the SEC, but wouldn't have won 10-12 games every year from 1992-2000, as they did in the ACC.
04-05-2018 10:31 AM
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ken d Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-05-2018 04:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-04-2018 08:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Asking for a friend...also, what does the ACC look like?

The "other" choice of the ACC in '91 was Syracuse. The ACC would have pursued the Orange until they submitted to get to 9 and stop.

Then the question becomes "what happens to the Big East". Does Miami still go to the Big East?
To answer the original question re: FSU,
Sports, like women's soccer, that were added after joining the ACC wouldn't exist and perhaps the new medical school is placed somewhere else because the emphasis on academic growth wouldn't have had the same motivation.
FSU would not have developed it excellent all around sports program, but would have continued to be a football power.

Maybe the question is "does the Big East still form if Miami opts to apply to the ACC instead?" IMO, the only reason either the ACC or the BE were included in the original BCS was because they each had a nationally prominent tentpole school in FSU and Miami.

If the ACC added Miami and Syracuse to go to 10 members, that would have left the fledgling BE football conference with only six teams. Three of those would have still been attractive to somebody, but not likely either the Big Ten or SEC. Va Tech wasn't yet the Va Tech of today and WVU wouldn't have qualified on a number of counts for the B1G. Maybe Pitt gets a look by the Big ten as a companion to Penn State (since adding the Nittany Lions brought the Big Ten to an awkward 11 members).

I doubt the ACC would have been forward thinking enough to add Pitt and Va Tech to get to 12 - they would have had a hard enough time swallowing the idea of 10.

Those decisions by FSU and Miami were the lynchpin for much of the realignment moves that happened later.
04-05-2018 10:41 AM
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-04-2018 10:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I would think FSU would fall nicely under Georgia in the pecking order. Hey, there is always Vandy to bear up on, right?

You're cute, assuming you meant in football strength FSU would have probably still accomplished their two national championships and probably included another however they wouldn't have maintained their streak of top 4 finishes (due to the schedule being more difficult compared to the ACC). FSU probably would have still won the championship in both 1993 (curious to see how they would have played against Auburn that year; however their defense was otherworldly that season and Charlie Ward was a beast) and 1999, and I believe they would have won it all in 1996 as well (in expense of Florida's first Championship) because the rematch probably wouldn't have happened. Georgia would still sit with two championships; during this time frame. Luckily for the Dawgs they are in much better shape today than they probably ever were as a program.
04-05-2018 11:46 AM
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XLance Offline
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RE: What would FSU look like had they joined the SEC in 91?
(04-05-2018 10:41 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(04-05-2018 04:43 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(04-04-2018 08:43 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Asking for a friend...also, what does the ACC look like?

The "other" choice of the ACC in '91 was Syracuse. The ACC would have pursued the Orange until they submitted to get to 9 and stop.

Then the question becomes "what happens to the Big East". Does Miami still go to the Big East?
To answer the original question re: FSU,
Sports, like women's soccer, that were added after joining the ACC wouldn't exist and perhaps the new medical school is placed somewhere else because the emphasis on academic growth wouldn't have had the same motivation.
FSU would not have developed it excellent all around sports program, but would have continued to be a football power.

Maybe the question is "does the Big East still form if Miami opts to apply to the ACC instead?" IMO, the only reason either the ACC or the BE were included in the original BCS was because they each had a nationally prominent tentpole school in FSU and Miami.

If the ACC added Miami and Syracuse to go to 10 members, that would have left the fledgling BE football conference with only six teams. Three of those would have still been attractive to somebody, but not likely either the Big Ten or SEC. Va Tech wasn't yet the Va Tech of today and WVU wouldn't have qualified on a number of counts for the B1G. Maybe Pitt gets a look by the Big ten as a companion to Penn State (since adding the Nittany Lions brought the Big Ten to an awkward 11 members).

I doubt the ACC would have been forward thinking enough to add Pitt and Va Tech to get to 12 - they would have had a hard enough time swallowing the idea of 10.

Those decisions by FSU and Miami were the lynchpin for much of the realignment moves that happened later.

Chicken or the egg statement:
The Bowl Coalition was formed precisely to give the ACC a seat at the "big boy" table. A place they had never occupied before.
Executed by Tom Mickle (Dukie, former asst commissioner of the ACC and Former Citrus Bowl director) orchestrated the Bowl Coalition with the elevation of the ACC as it's primary goal.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/new...id=2412090

Mickle managed conference finances for the ACC and supervised
public relations efforts. In 1992, he was instrumental in the
creation of the Bowl Coalition, which evolved into the Bowl
Championship Series.
04-05-2018 11:46 AM
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