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Augustana moving to Division I?
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IWokeUpLikeThis Online
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Post: #221
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
(02-03-2019 05:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(02-03-2019 04:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it's in the best interest of the Summit to pass on Augustana. I think they are too small to be competitive and the Summit has better expansions out there that they can pursue.

Last season, despite playing a D-II schedule, Augustana was the second-highest drawing basketball program in the Dakotas. Here are the average home-game attendance figures:

2,757 North Dakota State
2,421 Augustana
2,292 South Dakota State
2,269 South Dakota
1,865 North Dakota

I was also surprised to find that Augustana out-drew every Summit League school outside the Dakotas:

2,411 Oral Roberts
2,366 Omaha
1,403 Fort Wayne
1,204 Denver
602 Western Illinois

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf

So it appears to me that, at least in terms of its fan base and community support, Augustana isn’t at all too small to be considered for addition to the Summit.

So Augustana outdraws Omaha and doubles Denver and isn’t a hockey-first school.

And outdraws every Summit school but one.

This is a good, geographically-efficient number to have for a small but cohesive conference in the event an outlier finds an escape.
02-03-2019 06:02 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #222
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
But are they going to be able to fund all of their sports at the DI level? With a tiny enrollment they aren't going to be able to use student fees to make up the difference in needed expenditures. Are they going to maintain those basketball attendance numbers when they are taking their lumps as a DI newbie rather than a DII superpower? Football is going to be the real sticking point. The MVFC is not going to vote them in. Are the Dakota 4 going to try to force the MVC schools' hands so they can have Augustana on the football schedule? If Augie Football moves up its going to have to be in the Pioneer League and that's IF the Pioneer is even interested.
02-03-2019 07:53 PM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #223
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
(02-03-2019 07:53 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  But are they going to be able to fund all of their sports at the DI level? With a tiny enrollment they aren't going to be able to use student fees to make up the difference in needed expenditures. Are they going to maintain those basketball attendance numbers when they are taking their lumps as a DI newbie rather than a DII superpower? Football is going to be the real sticking point. The MVFC is not going to vote them in. Are the Dakota 4 going to try to force the MVC schools' hands so they can have Augustana on the football schedule? If Augie Football moves up its going to have to be in the Pioneer League and that's IF the Pioneer is even interested.

I don't think they can go d1 across the board. I think they are saying that for good PR and maybe holding out hope that money just might flood in. I think Augie goes Pioneer League non-scholarship football with Drake and Valpo and other schools they aspire to associate with (Davidson, Butler). The wrestling team is dropped. Maybe they drop the women's swim team. That takes them from 18 scholarship teams to 15 (which includes the cheer team- 14 without the cheer team). That lineup is fairly close to ORU, Creighton, or Drake.

PS. I found this quote:
"A driving force behind the 2030 vision is to help Augustana achieve a ranking in line with other regional private universities in reports such as the annual one for U.S. News & World Report, which still considers Augustana a college. The peer group the school is aiming for includes Butler University in Indiana, Creighton University in Omaha, Drake University in Des Moines, John Carroll University in Ohio and Valparaiso University in Indiana."

http://siouxfalls.business/augustana-203...niversity/
02-04-2019 12:48 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #224
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
Augustana wants to avoid what happened to St. Joe's in Indiana and Mount Ida which both private schools closed. Malone is in financial crisis, and they are on noticed that they could lose their accreditation by the Ed groups. They recently dropped football, and that school could wind down closing. Going D1 would not help them get the money. They need to open up to accept more students. These private schools are strict on who they will let in.
02-04-2019 02:06 AM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #225
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
(02-04-2019 12:48 AM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  
(02-03-2019 07:53 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  But are they going to be able to fund all of their sports at the DI level? With a tiny enrollment they aren't going to be able to use student fees to make up the difference in needed expenditures. Are they going to maintain those basketball attendance numbers when they are taking their lumps as a DI newbie rather than a DII superpower? Football is going to be the real sticking point. The MVFC is not going to vote them in. Are the Dakota 4 going to try to force the MVC schools' hands so they can have Augustana on the football schedule? If Augie Football moves up its going to have to be in the Pioneer League and that's IF the Pioneer is even interested.

I don't think they can go d1 across the board. I think they are saying that for good PR and maybe holding out hope that money just might flood in. I think Augie goes Pioneer League non-scholarship football with Drake and Valpo and other schools they aspire to associate with (Davidson, Butler). The wrestling team is dropped. Maybe they drop the women's swim team. That takes them from 18 scholarship teams to 15 (which includes the cheer team- 14 without the cheer team). That lineup is fairly close to ORU, Creighton, or Drake.

PS. I found this quote:
"A driving force behind the 2030 vision is to help Augustana achieve a ranking in line with other regional private universities in reports such as the annual one for U.S. News & World Report, which still considers Augustana a college. The peer group the school is aiming for includes Butler University in Indiana, Creighton University in Omaha, Drake University in Des Moines, John Carroll University in Ohio and Valparaiso University in Indiana."

http://siouxfalls.business/augustana-203...niversity/
Augustana endowment: $67 million
Creighton endowment: $525 million
Valparaiso endowment: $232 million
Drake endowment: $211 million
Butler endowment: $174 million

Nothing wrong with aiming high, I guess.
02-04-2019 09:54 PM
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KingSean Offline
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Post: #226
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
Adding Augustana is a good move. It grows the conference and adds another rivalry. Plus the city is a dast growing city. **** they probably draw more than alot of D1 schools do
02-05-2019 03:06 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #227
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
(02-03-2019 06:02 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(02-03-2019 05:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(02-03-2019 04:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it's in the best interest of the Summit to pass on Augustana. I think they are too small to be competitive and the Summit has better expansions out there that they can pursue.

Last season, despite playing a D-II schedule, Augustana was the second-highest drawing basketball program in the Dakotas. Here are the average home-game attendance figures:

2,757 North Dakota State
2,421 Augustana
2,292 South Dakota State
2,269 South Dakota
1,865 North Dakota

I was also surprised to find that Augustana out-drew every Summit League school outside the Dakotas:

2,411 Oral Roberts
2,366 Omaha
1,403 Fort Wayne
1,204 Denver
602 Western Illinois

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf

So it appears to me that, at least in terms of its fan base and community support, Augustana isn’t at all too small to be considered for addition to the Summit.

So Augustana outdraws Omaha and doubles Denver and isn’t a hockey-first school.

And outdraws every Summit school but one.

This is a good, geographically-efficient number to have for a small but cohesive conference in the event an outlier finds an escape.

The attendance for Augustana is based on Friday/Saturday Women/Men doubleheaders. The NSIC schedules like the old NCC. In the old NCC, D2 SDSU, playing doubleheaders Fri/Sat averaged over 5K every year and hit 6K and 7K when they had really strong teams. Apples to oranges.
02-05-2019 06:20 PM
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Post: #228
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
(02-05-2019 06:20 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(02-03-2019 06:02 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(02-03-2019 05:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(02-03-2019 04:44 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I think it's in the best interest of the Summit to pass on Augustana. I think they are too small to be competitive and the Summit has better expansions out there that they can pursue.

Last season, despite playing a D-II schedule, Augustana was the second-highest drawing basketball program in the Dakotas. Here are the average home-game attendance figures:

2,757 North Dakota State
2,421 Augustana
2,292 South Dakota State
2,269 South Dakota
1,865 North Dakota

I was also surprised to find that Augustana out-drew every Summit League school outside the Dakotas:

2,411 Oral Roberts
2,366 Omaha
1,403 Fort Wayne
1,204 Denver
602 Western Illinois

http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketba...ndance.pdf

So it appears to me that, at least in terms of its fan base and community support, Augustana isn’t at all too small to be considered for addition to the Summit.

So Augustana outdraws Omaha and doubles Denver and isn’t a hockey-first school.

And outdraws every Summit school but one.

This is a good, geographically-efficient number to have for a small but cohesive conference in the event an outlier finds an escape.

The attendance for Augustana is based on Friday/Saturday Women/Men doubleheaders. The NSIC schedules like the old NCC. In the old NCC, D2 SDSU, playing doubleheaders Fri/Sat averaged over 5K every year and hit 6K and 7K when they had really strong teams. Apples to oranges.

Winning at the national level also helps to bring fans to the game; Augustana Men won the National Championship in 2016.
02-05-2019 06:41 PM
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puck swami Offline
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Post: #229
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
The difference between 1,200 and 2,400 attending hoops game is marginal.

What IS important is the funding level for D-I sports. Will Augustana be able to spend between $20-30 million each year on D-I sports, not counting any capital costs to get facilities up to D-I quality?

If they can spend that, then they might be competitive.

If they can't spend that, they will be a drag on the Summit.

I remain very skeptical.
02-06-2019 12:34 AM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #230
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
$20-$30 million is a little high. South Dakota State with a top FCS football team is $21M. Most 1-AAA publics are around $10-$20 M, many seem to be around $15 M. Fort Wayne is $10.3 M, which is where Augustana is right now. Finding info about private schools is harder. Drake (Pioneer League non-scholarship football) seems to be $13 M. So Augustana isn't that far behind. They have to reconfigure their budget by dropping some sports and redirecting funds to strengthen other sports. I suspect that is what Augustana is doing now: studying how to reconfigure their athletics budget and determining beyond special one-time gifts, can they find ways to bring in an additional $3-5 M per year to be competitive at d1.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/...fe/sports/
02-06-2019 08:50 AM
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Post: #231
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
This is a podcast from a Sioux Falls radio station interviewing the Summit League commissioner, Tom Douple.
https://kwsn.com/podcasts/sports-talk-wi...sibility/#

The first 13 minutes is about the decision to move the conference basketball tournament (and then the SL headquarters) to Sioux Falls. Then he talks about the state of the conference at 13:40. At 14:00 talks about PFW likely leaving at some time. At 15:25 talks about WIU's struggles. At 16:20 talks about the Illinois schools in general. At 17:00 he is asked about a 10th team to the SL. He mentioned at 17:40 it would be nice to have another soccer team.
At 18:50 he talks about UMKC: he is clear that UMKC is welcome back (they do have a soccer team, their sports are aligned with the SL, he says their is no hard feelings between SL and UMKC). To my ears he sounds pretty "gleeful" at the prospect of a UMKC return to the SL. Does he know something he can't yet tell??

At 21:50 he talks about the possible entrance of Augustana. He says that they are in the midst of studies and need to decide about certain sports (i.e., football). He is careful with his words, but sounds in general positive about the idea but interested in the specifics. It sounds like there is little direct communication between him and Augie, but I suspect there is much "back channel" communication.
03-08-2019 04:01 PM
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Post: #232
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
(03-08-2019 04:01 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  This is a podcast from a Sioux Falls radio station interviewing the Summit League commissioner, Tom Douple.
https://kwsn.com/podcasts/sports-talk-wi...sibility/#

The first 13 minutes is about the decision to move the conference basketball tournament (and then the SL headquarters) to Sioux Falls. Then he talks about the state of the conference at 13:40. At 14:00 talks about PFW likely leaving at some time. At 15:25 talks about WIU's struggles. At 16:20 talks about the Illinois schools in general. At 17:00 he is asked about a 10th team to the SL. He mentioned at 17:40 it would be nice to have another soccer team.
At 18:50 he talks about UMKC: he is clear that UMKC is welcome back (they do have a soccer team, their sports are aligned with the SL, he says their is no hard feelings between SL and UMKC). To my ears he sounds pretty "gleeful" at the prospect of a UMKC return to the SL. Does he know something he can't yet tell??

At 21:50 he talks about the possible entrance of Augustana. He says that they are in the midst of studies and need to decide about certain sports (i.e., football). He is careful with his words, but sounds in general positive about the idea but interested in the specifics. It sounds like there is little direct communication between him and Augie, but I suspect there is much "back channel" communication.

UMKC to the Summit League is a no brainer for all parties.

Pretty much gets solid travel partners as well:
NDSU/UND
SDSU/USD
Omaha/UMKC
Denver/Oral Roberts
WIU/Fort Wayne
03-08-2019 08:00 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #233
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
It sounds to me like UMKC should give the WAC the courtesy of getting Cal Bapt and Dixie St past their provisional status and then move back to the Summit where they belong. It's probably going to cost them adding baseball. Augustana is being used to leverage to get them back on the most favorable terms.
03-08-2019 08:54 PM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #234
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
I posted this thought on the WAC board:

What caught my attention in the interview was Commissioner Douple talking about how the Summit League needs a soccer school. Most people have focused on SL's need for a baseball school, assuming that FW will leave at the first chance. But FW also takes away a soccer team. Some have speculated that the SL was demanding that UMKC starts a baseball team in order to get an invite. But UMKC would bring a soccer team and so that has value to the SL in itself. (And since Augie has a baseball team and no men's soccer... all the boxes are checked.)
03-08-2019 10:21 PM
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MidWestMidMajor Offline
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Post: #235
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
I just noticed this from the Augie website: https://goaugie.com/news/2019/3/4/august...-home.aspx

"Augustana University Athletics and the Sanford Pentagon are pleased to announce a facility partnership that will move all conference home games for Augustana men's and women's basketball to the Sanford Pentagon starting next season (2019-20). The initial agreement is for 10 years and will help elevate the experience for both Viking student-athletes and fans... The venue combines state-of-the-art amenities—including high-definition video boards and executive suites. The 3,200-seat Pentagon is home to ... the NBA G League's Sioux Falls Skyforce, the Northern Sun Intercollegiate Conference Women's and Men's Basketball tournaments and the South Dakota High School Basketball Hall of Fame."

Yeah, they're getting ready for D1. I think this thing is going to happen. They wouldn't sign a 10 year contract if they weren't getting invited to a D1 conference.
03-08-2019 10:31 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #236
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
As a commissioner, you don’t talk about a school leaving unless if you expect it to happen. It sounds like Fort Wayne is gone as soon S they have a place to land, and Western Illinois may not be far behind them.
03-08-2019 10:59 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #237
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
Western Illinois actually belong in MVC.

I think the WAC needs to get another school call up soon. Even if they get Tarleton State to agree to move up at the same time as Dixie State? They would have another school. They need to do this not just because of UMKC to SL, but Chicago State is in an even worst shape as than Western Illinios.
03-08-2019 11:15 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #238
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
(03-08-2019 11:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Western Illinois actually belong in MVC.

I think the WAC needs to get another school call up soon. Even if they get Tarleton State to agree to move up at the same time as Dixie State? They would have another school. They need to do this not just because of UMKC to SL, but Chicago State is in an even worst shape as than Western Illinios.
Normally I try not to reply to your nonsense, but this is just too dumb to leave alone. You know the MVC is based around more than geography, right?
03-08-2019 11:22 PM
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Post: #239
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
So what, the MVC is going to for sure invite N.Kentucky and Murray St? Giving the opening in the HL to PFW and WIU to OVC. Or is the HL going to 12?
03-08-2019 11:33 PM
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MWC Tex Online
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Post: #240
RE: Augustana moving to Division I?
(02-03-2019 07:53 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  But are they going to be able to fund all of their sports at the DI level? With a tiny enrollment they aren't going to be able to use student fees to make up the difference in needed expenditures. Are they going to maintain those basketball attendance numbers when they are taking their lumps as a DI newbie rather than a DII superpower? Football is going to be the real sticking point. The MVFC is not going to vote them in. Are the Dakota 4 going to try to force the MVC schools' hands so they can have Augustana on the football schedule? If Augie Football moves up its going to have to be in the Pioneer League and that's IF the Pioneer is even interested.

Augusta could go Indy in FCS as Dixie St has led the way seeing how quickly schools have signed up to play them. The Dakotas and some MVFC schools need OOC games. In addition, Augustana could play P5 schools to support their football program.

What the Summit League should do is sponsor football.
03-09-2019 09:27 AM
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