(04-04-2018 04:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  From what it sounds like they located her during routine patrol operations. The officer was likely on patrol in the area and saw the vehicle sitting in a parking lot after close of business and ran the tag. A hit came back on the missing person report and based upon that he made contact with the subject. She didn't have any outward signs of being a danger to herself or anyone else and her story about leaving because of family problems was corroborated during the initial phone call from her father so she was free to go. Not a lot that law enforcement can do.

And it's easy to look at the information that's out there now concerning her website, videos, etc and say "Somebody should have known" in hindsight but nothing she posted gave any indication that an attack like this was forthcoming. What she posted was no different than the guy around here who drove around for years covered with hundreds of those Real Lemon plastic lemon juice containers and signs hanging all over it stating that his Ford LTD station wagon was a lemon and neither the dealership he bought it from or Ford Motor Company would do anything about it. Or the thousands of people each day who leave a bad review on Yelp, Facebook, etc about a business because of a bad experience.

I'm still surprised that they even took a missing persons report to have a 'hit'. She's an adult. Much like many have said, should cops be able to detain you even for a moment simply because your abusive ex whom reported you missing has claimed that you're missing?

As for the 'somebody should have known', that's a big part of my point.... more after this....

(04-05-2018 08:55 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  So I get ticked off at you and report you as a threat?

I don't think we want that.

That was precisely my point. If we won't do it because it's a violation of someone's right to privacy, why are we willing to do it to violate someone's right to bear arms?

The left will argue that 'because they don't NEED that right'... and that's a matter for an amendment of the constitution. When roughly 75% of people agree with them, they can take the right away.

People DID report concerns, and whether the evidence was compelling or not is a matter of opinion, but the fact is that we did nothing about it. Now some are talking about it having been compelling....

so the question is, are we willing to take those sorts of draconian measures in response to free speech or the right to privacy or any of a number of other PRIMARY Constitutional rights?

(04-05-2018 12:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-04-2018 04:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  From what it sounds like they located her during routine patrol operations. The officer was likely on patrol in the area and saw the vehicle sitting in a parking lot after close of business and ran the tag. A hit came back on the missing person report and based upon that he made contact with the subject. She didn't have any outward signs of being a danger to herself or anyone else and her story about leaving because of family problems was corroborated during the initial phone call from her father so she was free to go. Not a lot that law enforcement can do.

And it's easy to look at the information that's out there now concerning her website, videos, etc and say "Somebody should have known" in hindsight but nothing she posted gave any indication that an attack like this was forthcoming. What she posted was no different than the guy around here who drove around for years covered with hundreds of those Real Lemon plastic lemon juice containers and signs hanging all over it stating that his Ford LTD station wagon was a lemon and neither the dealership he bought it from or Ford Motor Company would do anything about it. Or the thousands of people each day who leave a bad review on Yelp, Facebook, etc about a business because of a bad experience.

I'm still surprised that they even took a missing persons report to have a 'hit'. She's an adult. Much like many have said, should cops be able to detain you even for a moment simply because your abusive ex whom reported you missing has claimed that you're missing?

I'm not surprised. Taking a report isn't that hard these days as it's mostly clicking boxes on a computer screen. There's a lot of agencies that require some sort of report for every "contact" you make in performance of your duties anyway.

One misconception is the idea that once you file a missing persons report on an adult that police are actively looking for you. Unless you are considered endangered or some other extreme circumstance they aren't. You typically only encounter missing adults in performance of other police duties....traffic stop, arrest, or as I imagine was the deal in Mountain View doing property check patrols of closed businesses. You were likely going to be detained anyway as part of said police duties so it's not really a big deal. As long as you are no apparent danger to yourself or others they aren't going to "send you home" and if you so desire you can request that they not divulge your location. The agency that locates you will advise the reporting agency that you were located and were fine, they'll remove the missing person entry from NCIC and notify the reporting party only that you have been located and are fine without revealing your location.

Here's some background on what is causing issues these days at Youtube:

The Adpocalypse

Knee jerk reactions and blanket decision making can have unexpected adverse effects.

(04-05-2018 08:53 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(04-04-2018 01:45 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  I’ll buy that, there’s nothing automatically suspicious or dangerous about someone sleeping in their car, I’ve done it on long trips. If the prior stories (sounding like that’s what they may have been, stories) were incorrect and the father didn’t make any mention of a possible attack, especially with a weapon, then what’re they to do?

I will say, however,... it is rather uncanny how it seems ALL these people, other than Vegas d*ck that I know of, have had or been in direct contact with law enforcement or “the system” in one form or another.

I guess maybe Columbine flew under the radar too, don’t recall. But we/ they weren’t really on high alert for this stuff then either.

Don’t know what the answer is...

And there's nothing automatically suspicious or dangerous about someone owning semi-automatic rifles. But that doesn't stop the radleft from trying to strip law-abiding American citizens from their self-evident constitutional rights.

Well yea, okay there as well. I was simply saying I think on this one, in stark contrast to the colossal governmental failures of a Parkland, I think if it is as it’s reported LE gets a pass on this one.

They made contact, talked with her, she gave off no indication of a threat either to herself or anyone else, no gun in sight, obviously, so they went on their way.

That and thankfully there’s no preening, self promoting, wholly incompetent jack wagon Sherrff out there telling us all how amazing he is and blaming inanimate objects and distant voluntary associations for his utter failures.

The leftists can scream and stamp their feet all they want,

Tell us ONE thing, short of mandatory confiscation that could have/would have prevented this?

Banning bump stocks?!? Lol

(04-05-2018 06:30 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I responded on the 2nd page of this thread. It may have been a weak attempt at graveyard humor but it was a response nevertheless.

I'd say at this point, my perception is that there are so many shootings these days that we've already become de-sensitized to the smaller ones. Unless it's something along the magnitude of Las Vegas or Parkland, I generally keep away from these types of threads.

But in general, folks from the left don't respond here to questions from the right, and vice versa. I thought I raised a very good question in the Trump hates Amazon thread on why Amazon wouldn't ship 100 percent of its items with USPS if they have such an amazing deal with them (as compared to Fed Ex or UPS), and no one responded to that thought either time I brought it up.

The most likely reason USPS limits the size of the packages they will deliver

(04-05-2018 02:52 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 06:30 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  I responded on the 2nd page of this thread. It may have been a weak attempt at graveyard humor but it was a response nevertheless.

I'd say at this point, my perception is that there are so many shootings these days that we've already become de-sensitized to the smaller ones. Unless it's something along the magnitude of Las Vegas or Parkland, I generally keep away from these types of threads.

But in general, folks from the left don't respond here to questions from the right, and vice versa. I thought I raised a very good question in the Trump hates Amazon thread on why Amazon wouldn't ship 100 percent of its items with USPS if they have such an amazing deal with them (as compared to Fed Ex or UPS), and no one responded to that thought either time I brought it up.

The most likely reason USPS limits the size of the packages they will deliver

That's probably 90% of it. Where I live the mailboxes have to be on state owned property (or at least on a state easement) - almost a mile from my house. USPS won't deliver a package that won't fit in the mailbox to the house but UPS and FedEx will deliver to the door.

(04-05-2018 12:52 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 12:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-04-2018 04:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  From what it sounds like they located her during routine patrol operations. The officer was likely on patrol in the area and saw the vehicle sitting in a parking lot after close of business and ran the tag. A hit came back on the missing person report and based upon that he made contact with the subject. She didn't have any outward signs of being a danger to herself or anyone else and her story about leaving because of family problems was corroborated during the initial phone call from her father so she was free to go. Not a lot that law enforcement can do.

And it's easy to look at the information that's out there now concerning her website, videos, etc and say "Somebody should have known" in hindsight but nothing she posted gave any indication that an attack like this was forthcoming. What she posted was no different than the guy around here who drove around for years covered with hundreds of those Real Lemon plastic lemon juice containers and signs hanging all over it stating that his Ford LTD station wagon was a lemon and neither the dealership he bought it from or Ford Motor Company would do anything about it. Or the thousands of people each day who leave a bad review on Yelp, Facebook, etc about a business because of a bad experience.

I'm still surprised that they even took a missing persons report to have a 'hit'. She's an adult. Much like many have said, should cops be able to detain you even for a moment simply because your abusive ex whom reported you missing has claimed that you're missing?

I'm not surprised. Taking a report isn't that hard these days as it's mostly clicking boxes on a computer screen. There's a lot of agencies that require some sort of report for every "contact" you make in performance of your duties anyway.
One misconception is the idea that once you file a missing persons report on an adult that police are actively looking for you. Unless you are considered endangered or some other extreme circumstance they aren't. You typically only encounter missing adults in performance of other police duties....traffic stop, arrest, or as I imagine was the deal in Mountain View doing property check patrols of closed businesses. You were likely going to be detained anyway as part of said police duties so it's not really a big deal. As long as you are no apparent danger to yourself or others they aren't going to "send you home" and if you so desire you can request that they not divulge your location. The agency that locates you will advise the reporting agency that you were located and were fine, they'll remove the missing person entry from NCIC and notify the reporting party only that you have been located and are fine without revealing your location.

I get this... but I'm still surprised.

I'd actually think that more leftists, especially victims rights advocates would be bothered by this... that almost ANYONE who wants to check on you can use the police to do so and get SOME kind of a report back (unless you have some sort of legal filing against them). I get that they aren't actively looking for you... but it still seems invasive to me. If your abuser has friends in law enforcement, they will be able to locate you.

I guess it's better than nothing, but it seems then perhaps that the system needs to be more detailed as in you can't just say I don't know where she is and that worries me... but you have to provide some reasonable basis for concern.... and not about her peacefully protesting out front of YouTube.

Again, I'm really somewhat only demonstrating how difficult it is to legislate against 'crazy'... but using a context that anti-gun people might accept.

FTR, I'm aware of a situation like this with an 18yr old daughter and her abusive mother who happened to be a lawyer who took court appointments.

(04-05-2018 04:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 12:52 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-05-2018 12:28 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(04-04-2018 04:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  From what it sounds like they located her during routine patrol operations. The officer was likely on patrol in the area and saw the vehicle sitting in a parking lot after close of business and ran the tag. A hit came back on the missing person report and based upon that he made contact with the subject. She didn't have any outward signs of being a danger to herself or anyone else and her story about leaving because of family problems was corroborated during the initial phone call from her father so she was free to go. Not a lot that law enforcement can do.

And it's easy to look at the information that's out there now concerning her website, videos, etc and say "Somebody should have known" in hindsight but nothing she posted gave any indication that an attack like this was forthcoming. What she posted was no different than the guy around here who drove around for years covered with hundreds of those Real Lemon plastic lemon juice containers and signs hanging all over it stating that his Ford LTD station wagon was a lemon and neither the dealership he bought it from or Ford Motor Company would do anything about it. Or the thousands of people each day who leave a bad review on Yelp, Facebook, etc about a business because of a bad experience.

I'm still surprised that they even took a missing persons report to have a 'hit'. She's an adult. Much like many have said, should cops be able to detain you even for a moment simply because your abusive ex whom reported you missing has claimed that you're missing?

I'm not surprised. Taking a report isn't that hard these days as it's mostly clicking boxes on a computer screen. There's a lot of agencies that require some sort of report for every "contact" you make in performance of your duties anyway.
One misconception is the idea that once you file a missing persons report on an adult that police are actively looking for you. Unless you are considered endangered or some other extreme circumstance they aren't. You typically only encounter missing adults in performance of other police duties....traffic stop, arrest, or as I imagine was the deal in Mountain View doing property check patrols of closed businesses. You were likely going to be detained anyway as part of said police duties so it's not really a big deal. As long as you are no apparent danger to yourself or others they aren't going to "send you home" and if you so desire you can request that they not divulge your location. The agency that locates you will advise the reporting agency that you were located and were fine, they'll remove the missing person entry from NCIC and notify the reporting party only that you have been located and are fine without revealing your location.

I get this... but I'm still surprised.

I'd actually think that more leftists, especially victims rights advocates would be bothered by this... that almost ANYONE who wants to check on you can use the police to do so and get SOME kind of a report back (unless you have some sort of legal filing against them). I get that they aren't actively looking for you... but it still seems invasive to me. If your abuser has friends in law enforcement, they will be able to locate you.

I guess it's better than nothing, but it seems then perhaps that the system needs to be more detailed as in you can't just say I don't know where she is and that worries me... but you have to provide some reasonable basis for concern.... and not about her peacefully protesting out front of YouTube.

Again, I'm really somewhat only demonstrating how difficult it is to legislate against 'crazy'... but using a context that anti-gun people might accept.

FTR, I'm aware of a situation like this with an 18yr old daughter and her abusive mother who happened to be a lawyer who took court appointments.

It's a catch-22. Don't take a report and the person turns up dead and you'll hang publicly for not doing anything. Take a report and suddenly you are "invading someone's privacy".

And I get what you are saying about friends in law enforcement but there are legal and civil ways to remedy that. I have a lot of friends but I'm not putting my freedom or everything i own in jeopardy for any of them.

(04-04-2018 11:34 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(04-03-2018 11:02 PM)shere khan Wrote:  lunatics come in all shapes, colors and sizes

But primarily one political ideology, in the U.S. anyways.

The shooter was Bahai in this case, which is an apolitical religion (not sure if apolitical is strong enough... they are prohibited from political activity, IIRC), and is among the least likely religions to produce political tertorism. The religion is something akin to Unitarians or Quakers, both in its peaceful outlook and its respect and acceptance of other religions and conceptions of God. It is very much focused on teaching moral values and making good choices. As a post-Islamic religion founded in Iran, it has been persecuted to various extents in Iran... it's religious center is in Tel Aviv, and it is accepted graciously in Israel.

(04-05-2018 05:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  \

It's a catch-22. Don't take a report and the person turns up dead and you'll hang publicly for not doing anything. Take a report and suddenly you are "invading someone's privacy".

And I get what you are saying about friends in law enforcement but there are legal and civil ways to remedy that. I have a lot of friends but I'm not putting my freedom or everything i own in jeopardy for any of them.

Yep. it's a catch-22 just like 'gun control' is. How do you take away guns from bad people without also violating the 2nd amendment rights of good people?

Physical abusers are often just big bullies, but psychological abusers are master manipulators. I've found that they have ways of getting 'good' people to do the wrong thing... especially if they know well how the system works.... in the simplest example, if someone was trying to hide from an abuser and the abuser just knew that 'the Seattle police' had 'cleared' the missing person report and they stalked her social media and found a friend of hers in Seattle etc etc etc....