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cpawstoney Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 09:50 AM)skyblade Wrote:  Yeah, Evans isn't definitely gone yet. My assumption is that Evans has put word out to the NBA teams that if he isn't a first round pick he's coming back to UC. If he was a sure first round pick he would have hired an agent, if he was for sure not a first round pick he wouldn't have entered the draft. This signals that word from the NBA teams and scouts is he's got a chance of being a first round pick, but all the activities that lead up to the NBA draft are going to be the decider. It seems like Evans is probably gone, but we won't know for sure until the NBA draft actually happens.

Evans has until June 11th to withdraw his name and return. If he hires an agent before then, don't expect him back. To me, no agent is a sign he will return.
 
04-02-2018 10:01 AM
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Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Evans...
(04-01-2018 03:27 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:18 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:14 PM)Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Wrote:  Now Mick is going to have excuses for the next few years. Evan's left early. Cumberland leaves early next year (maybe). "If I didn't put guys in the NBA early every year we'd be winning national championships." We all know that's coming

Give it a rest....

+ 1 BILLION

It is my opinion -- however flawed it might be -- that the "youth" on this board who know almost nothing about basketball have driven away more posters than Mick's coaching decisions ever will.

Last year we lost Ctip. He was a very special person. Ultimately, he lost his life because of his service to his country in 'Nam. Very few people know that Chris played college basketball and gave up his scholarship in order to join the Army and serve others.

I can't tell you how many times that Ctip laughed at the "young ***holes" as he called them who thought they understood hoops yet had no clue whatsoever.

Jackie, thanks for pointing out stupidity when you see it.

Would it have been better if I put this in the "Fire Cronin" thread to consolidate the negativity ?

How about this instead.

I wonder how a talent like Evans leaving after his junior year impacts Mick's long term plan for his teams? Mick has built a back-to-back 30 win team on the shoulders of 4 year players. If he suddenly starts having these foundation type players leave after 3, how does he respond? How does it impact his program moving forward? I wonder if his recruiting and player development will be able to overcome the loss of these great players whom he was expecting to have for another year?

Is that less young ***hole-y for you?


Congrats to Jacob. I think his skill set will make him a prototypical 3 and D player on an NBA bench.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2018 10:38 AM by Intimidate Dominate Celebrate.)
04-02-2018 10:34 AM
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Nobones Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 10:01 AM)cpawstoney Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 09:50 AM)skyblade Wrote:  Yeah, Evans isn't definitely gone yet. My assumption is that Evans has put word out to the NBA teams that if he isn't a first round pick he's coming back to UC. If he was a sure first round pick he would have hired an agent, if he was for sure not a first round pick he wouldn't have entered the draft. This signals that word from the NBA teams and scouts is he's got a chance of being a first round pick, but all the activities that lead up to the NBA draft are going to be the decider. It seems like Evans is probably gone, but we won't know for sure until the NBA draft actually happens.

Evans has until June 11th to withdraw his name and return. If he hires an agent before then, don't expect him back. To me, no agent is a sign he will return.

Right and the Draft is June 21 so we will know before the draft.
 
04-02-2018 10:44 AM
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CincyBro Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 09:37 AM)skyblade Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 09:00 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 08:54 AM)skyblade Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 07:50 AM)jarr Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 07:30 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Evans has been a great Bearcat and we all should wish him well. It's not his fault that there isn't a "ready now" or "ready soon" replacement waiting to fill his shoes and assume his scoring.

Your first bolded comment, regarding UK and Duke, I don't think anyone here reasonably expects UC to stockpile talent the way those schools do. Both are at the top of the food chain and pretty consistently make deep runs in the tournament. How often should we expect UC to make a deep run (say Elite Eight)? Once a decade when a rare combination of talent and experience come together? By the way, I think the folks at that little school in Norwood expect more. Looking at their past ten years worth of trips to the second weekend, I think it's fair to expect more in Clifton.

Regarding your second bolded comment, I agree "one and dones" may be high risk/high reward. Many here will gladly take a one and done in the mix if the coaching staff can blend that talent with experience to advance in March. I'm ready for some "high reward" results.

Looking at Michigan and Villanova, it's not a fluke that both teams can really shoot the ball from deep and are playing for the national championship. Evans and Cumberland were excellent recruits because they could clearly shoot the ball when they walked on campus. Conversely, turning athletic wings into shooters has had decidedly mixed results for UC and many programs.

The question I have, is the lack of "shooters" more a factor of them not seeing themselves as a good fit with our program, or our staff not seeing them as a good fit with our program, or equal? It's nice to see the Dontaie Allen kid in Pendelton County is starting to get looked at, but yet to receive an offer. He is considered a really good shooter and offensive minded player. I could see him going somewhere like WKU and averaging 20+.

We just had a team with a shooter at every position. Even without Evans, it's not like we have no one else to score. Williams, Hardnett, Diarra and Johnson were all big time scorers in HS and Moore was recruited for his 3 point shooting. We have 3 guys on the team who aren't 3-point shooters (Scott, Brooks, Nsoseme) and athletic centers who can shoot the 3 are very hard to come by. Sure it's nice to have guys who can shoot from every position, but it's not the only way to win. Kansas made the final four starting Udoka Azubuike who shoots about as well as Brooks. Loyola started Krutwig who had a nice inside game, but didn't attempt a 3 on the season.

Michigan needed a fluke to make it past a Houston team that isn't exactly packed with shooters. The NCAA tournament is so full of luck in games and matchups that it's really hard to judge what wins by looking at the two teams in the finals.

I'd say movement and passing are the keys to offensive success, if you have those then you will get open shots and open shots tend to go in.

None of the afore mentioned players on this team have ever been a double figure scorer against big time college opponents. Neither Clark, Evans or Cumberland avg. double figures their first year of starting. You are assuming way too much. Also, not much movement and passing in Micks offense.

Hard to be a double figure scorer when you're on the bench behind two guys who are likely first round NBA picks. The comment was about lack of shooters on the team, and "shooters' not considering themselves a good fit for the program. That's what I was replying to. Considering we have only 3 non-shooters on the team (and Scott has potential to become a shooter by next season), I'd say we don't lack shooters.

If you're criteria is about scoring at the college level, it's hard to judge considering Williams/Moore were sitting on the bench behind two likely first round NBA draft picks. Freshmen who average double figures are pretty rare. Williams/Moore haven't had much game time, but they get a year in practice and the weight room to prepare for the college level, that makes it a lot more likely one of them will average double figures. Hardnett looks promising as well, he scored over half his teams points in his teams championship win.

I agree that our offense has been stagnent and I'm hoping that will change next year. Our bigs will be much more athletic, but less capable scorers, that should mean they spend more time moving and setting screens and less time trying to post their man up while the guards throw the ball around the perimeter. Last year, Cronin's game plan was to play through the bigs. I think Cronin will be wise enough to realize that's not going to work this year. Our offense should be about playing through the guards (Broome, Cumberland and whoever the 3rd starter is - my guess is Williams) with the bigs setting screens and serving as threats to catch passes for easy scores and grab offenseive rebounds.

I do like your enthusiasm, I'll just wait and see. When they show me they can avg. double figures, that will be just fine. But no one on this team outside Cumberland has shown that ability. Three players who were thousand point scorers found it difficult at times to score in this offense. Just saying.
 
04-02-2018 10:49 AM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Evans...
I hope some agent isn't in his ear telling him a bunch of BS about being drafted in the 1st round. I just don't see that happening.

It's no different than your realtor doesn't really car how much your house sells for... just as long as it sells.
 
04-02-2018 11:49 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 11:49 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  I hope some agent isn't in his ear telling him a bunch of BS about being drafted in the 1st round. I just don't see that happening.

It's no different than your realtor doesn't really car how much your house sells for... just as long as it sells.
I don't think ESPN has an adgenda. I don't follow the NBA draft closely but someone here said the ESPN analyst is one of the best and he's got Jacob in the top 25. He certainly has a better idea than any of us do where his stock lies.
 
04-02-2018 12:19 PM
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skylinecat Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 11:49 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  I hope some agent isn't in his ear telling him a bunch of BS about being drafted in the 1st round. I just don't see that happening.

It's no different than your realtor doesn't really car how much your house sells for... just as long as it sells.

People that say this don't watch the NBA. He is a perfect 3 & D guy for an NBA team. He will probably be the second guy off the bench for most teams, which is exactly who they are looking to replace in the back half of the first round.

Look at a team like Philadelphia who is currently projected to have the 24th pick or Portland who is currently projected to have the 26th. They aren't looking for superstars at this spot. Philly loses JJ Reddick next year and his 23 million dollar salary. They won't be able to afford to retain him and will need someone cheap to replace him. They also only have one more year of Jarred Bayless, Justin Anderson, and TJ McConnell. Those are the guys they are looking to replace with the 24th pick. Not a James Harden or in this case, Simmons or Embiid.

Same with Portland, They lose Napier, Connaughton and some other bench guys after next year. It wouldn't be as obvious of a fit, but they aren't hoping for another Lillard at 26. Their bench guys will get big offers somewhere else next year and they need to replace them with cheap back ups - aka Evans. And then 4 years from now, Evans will be the guy that gets a big free agency deal and gets replaced by a cheap late first rounder.
 
04-02-2018 12:43 PM
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Tymanh99 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Evans...
the 2019 nba class may be very weak, so i selfishly wish jake would come back for himself and UC.

lots of mixed reports out there right now that show him as a 1st rounder, late 2nd rounder or not being drafted at all. i think his stock will rise in pre-draft camps and he'll land late 1st/early 2nd.

this quote from him is very telling:

Quote:"I didn't sign an agent yet, but I'm entering my name with plans on getting picked in the first round. I'm not just testing to come back to school," Evans said.

i do think he signs an agent (if he hasn't already) and is not returning. hope we see his name in the 1st round on draft day.

get it, jake!
 
04-02-2018 12:46 PM
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RE: Evans...
(04-01-2018 08:42 PM)jarr Wrote:  http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-bas...?__twitter


Looks like Decoursey has us as #20 next year with Evan's returning. Where does this put us with him gone?

I think a 7-10 seed in the Tourney.
 
04-02-2018 12:55 PM
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Marcus Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 12:55 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 08:42 PM)jarr Wrote:  http://www.sportingnews.com/amp/ncaa-bas...?__twitter


Looks like Decoursey has us as #20 next year with Evan's returning. Where does this put us with him gone?

I think a 7-10 seed in the Tourney.

I'd take 7-10 seed territory all day but I see a Bubble type team at best. Don't see where the scoring comes from at the PG spot or interior. And there aren't really any shooters either on the wings outside of Cumberland. JMO.
 
04-02-2018 01:12 PM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Evans...
No one accounts for player development anymore.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bobby Brannen and Justin Jackson were good for nothing more than a few rebounds and five fouls their first two years. By their senior years, they were our best players.

Relax. Someone will pick up their game.
 
04-02-2018 01:17 PM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 01:17 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  No one accounts for player development anymore.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bobby Brannen and Justin Jackson were good for nothing more than a few rebounds and five fouls their first two years. By their senior years, they were our best players.

Relax. Someone will pick up their game.

Seriously. Doesn't anyone wonder how we jumped 4 whole seed lines after losing two solid, senior guards? Players develop. New players come in. Some play better in different combinations with others. Mick has figured it out for a few years now. It'll happen again.
 
04-02-2018 01:30 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 08:48 AM)rosewater Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 07:50 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 03:27 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:18 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:14 PM)Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Wrote:  Now Mick is going to have excuses for the next few years. Evan's left early. Cumberland leaves early next year (maybe). "If I didn't put guys in the NBA early every year we'd be winning national championships." We all know that's coming

Give it a rest....

+ 1 BILLION

It is my opinion -- however flawed it might be -- that the "youth" on this board who know almost nothing about basketball have driven away more posters than Mick's coaching decisions ever will.

Last year we lost Ctip. He was a very special person. Ultimately, he lost his life because of his service to his country in 'Nam. Very few people know that Chris played college basketball and gave up his scholarship in order to join the Army and serve others.

I can't tell you how many times that Ctip laughed at the "young ***holes" as he called them who thought they understood hoops yet had no clue whatsoever.

Jackie, thanks for pointing out stupidity when you see it.

Just a thought, but if it its reached a point where we believe the discourse on this board has harmed people's health, it is time we create two different sub-forums for hoops: one forum that is strictly moderated so that no disagreement can be raised against the coaching staff, and another that is more free range so that people can voice a disagreement with the way the basketball program is run, the recruiting, game management, etc.

What does everyone else think?

I think that you are being a bit tongue and cheek, but I would like to address the posters that complains about other's opinion. If you do not like a persons opinion you have at least two options: read no further, or block the users post. Yes, option number one may inconvenience you a little bit, but free speech comes at a price.

That has about as much chance of happening as UC getting into the B10.
 
04-02-2018 01:31 PM
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Post: #74
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 01:30 PM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 01:17 PM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  No one accounts for player development anymore.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Bobby Brannen and Justin Jackson were good for nothing more than a few rebounds and five fouls their first two years. By their senior years, they were our best players.

Relax. Someone will pick up their game.

Seriously. Doesn't anyone wonder how we jumped 4 whole seed lines after losing two solid, senior guards? Players develop. New players come in. Some play better in different combinations with others. Mick has figured it out for a few years now. It'll happen again.
I agree. We've had teams in our 8 year run with far less talent. Heck we had a team get to an 8-9 game without a single player averaging double digits. Mbodj was our post game one year. Cumberland is going to be the star. Broome was really good at times last year and will be able to be more of a scorer. Tre was one of our better guys at the end of the year. I agree with the 7-10 range comfortably in. I could potentially go much higher if we get a spring surprise recruiting, likely the grad transfer market.
 
04-02-2018 01:41 PM
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RE: Evans...
Tim Hardaway Jr (1st Round, 24th pick 2013)

Junior Stats - 34.8 MPG 14.5 PPG 4.7 RPG 2.4 APG .7 SPG .4 BPG 1.9 TPG FG% .437 3P% .374 FT% .694

Jacob Evans (TBD)

Junior Stats - 30.8 MPG 13.0 PPG 4.7 RPG 3.1 APG 1.3 SPG 1.0 BPG 1.8 TPG FG% .427 3P% .370 FT% .754

Michigan fans thought Tim Hardaway Jr was wrong to leave after his junior year...
[Image: DELBFy3UIAAefDm.jpg]


Quote:I don't understand why THJ is leaving. His play certainly has not indicated that he is NBA ready. Although I suppose that this tournament run has raised his stock.

Quote:His hand is forced. Next year will be a much better draft class. This is a notoriously down year, THJ has to go. I think hes peaked at Michigan and needs to move on. Thank you for three great years, Tim.

Quote:Firstly, unless he's already been told there's no way his draft stock can go any higher, I don't get why Timmy is leaving (Trey leaving is a no brainer). Timmy is extremely inconsistent and I could only imagine one year of him playing like he can and not falling into one of his usual Big Ten conference slumps would help him drastically come draft time.
http://www.mgoblog.com/mgoboard/reports-...C0%2C0%2C1
 
04-02-2018 02:00 PM
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Post: #76
RE: Evans...
I think it will be ok. Here is how I see the rotation and points working out

Starters
Pg Broome 14-18 pts
Sg Moore 08-14 pts
Sf Cumberland 15-20 pts also expect around 5 assist and rebounds per game
Pf Scott 08-10 pts 5-8 rebounds (most of Scott and Brooks points will be off put backs and up dunks)
C Brooks 06-10 pts 5-8 rebounds

Bench
Williams 6-8 pts
Jenifer 6-8 pts

Not sure what to expect from the rest of the bench. I think the team will finish in the top 4 of the league Avg between 60-70 points a game and get a 6-8 seed in the NCAA Tournament. (just my opinion)
 
04-02-2018 02:08 PM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 02:08 PM)dj3600 Wrote:  I think it will be ok. Here is how I see the rotation and points working out

Starters
Pg Broome 14-18 pts
Sg Moore 08-14 pts
Sf Cumberland 15-20 pts also expect around 5 assist and rebounds per game
Pf Scott 08-10 pts 5-8 rebounds (most of Scott and Brooks points will be off put backs and up dunks)
C Brooks 06-10 pts 5-8 rebounds

Bench
Williams 6-8 pts
Jenifer 6-8 pts

Not sure what to expect from the rest of the bench. I think the team will finish in the top 4 of the league Avg between 60-70 points a game and get a 6-8 seed in the NCAA Tournament. (just my opinion)

Hm, that's a little hopeful for Broome and Brooks IMO. But I agree that Scott and Cumberland are going to be big time stat sheet stuffers next season.
 
04-02-2018 02:11 PM
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jarr Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 02:08 PM)dj3600 Wrote:  I think it will be ok. Here is how I see the rotation and points working out

Starters
Pg Broome 14-18 pts
Sg Moore 08-14 pts
Sf Cumberland 15-20 pts also expect around 5 assist and rebounds per game
Pf Scott 08-10 pts 5-8 rebounds (most of Scott and Brooks points will be off put backs and up dunks)
C Brooks 06-10 pts 5-8 rebounds

Bench
Williams 6-8 pts
Jenifer 6-8 pts

Not sure what to expect from the rest of the bench. I think the team will finish in the top 4 of the league Avg between 60-70 points a game and get a 6-8 seed in the NCAA Tournament. (just my opinion)

With all of those guys shooting percentages we will be needing a ton of shot attempts for them to be scoring that much. I think Moore shot like 20% from 3 starting in conference play.

I see alot ot double teams for JC, hopefully someone else can emerge.
 
04-02-2018 02:14 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 02:14 PM)jarr Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 02:08 PM)dj3600 Wrote:  I think it will be ok. Here is how I see the rotation and points working out

Starters
Pg Broome 14-18 pts
Sg Moore 08-14 pts
Sf Cumberland 15-20 pts also expect around 5 assist and rebounds per game
Pf Scott 08-10 pts 5-8 rebounds (most of Scott and Brooks points will be off put backs and up dunks)
C Brooks 06-10 pts 5-8 rebounds

Bench
Williams 6-8 pts
Jenifer 6-8 pts

Not sure what to expect from the rest of the bench. I think the team will finish in the top 4 of the league Avg between 60-70 points a game and get a 6-8 seed in the NCAA Tournament. (just my opinion)

With all of those guys shooting percentages we will be needing a ton of shot attempts for them to be scoring that much. I think Moore shot like 20% from 3 starting in conference play.

I see alot ot double teams for JC, hopefully someone else can emerge.

I think that it will be a more guard friendly offense this year. I don't really see a lot of post ups by the big.
 
04-02-2018 02:17 PM
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BrooklynRocket Online
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Post: #80
RE: Evans...
Broome and Cumberland will average double digits for scoring. Everyone else will likely be below 8 ppg.

I'm guessing we average 65 points per game.
 
04-02-2018 02:22 PM
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