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MickMack Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 01:13 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 05:28 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 04:39 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 03:27 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:23 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  Yes, let's not turn this thread into another Cronin bashing. There are already enough of those. Good luck to Evans and his future career. We had him for 3 years so that's better than some programs get with potential NBA'ers. Not a bad thing for our program either to have someone drafted.

Exactly when will the statute of limitations be up on being butt-hurt over the Nevada game? Two weeks of pouting, whining, and self pity is getting really old.

I don't think it's going to. This town hasn't seen a winner in a looooooooooooong time. And when I say "winner" I'm not even referring to championships. We haven't even been able to sniff the opportunity to play for a championship in a long time. I think there is something special going on here..and not the good kind of special. Honest to god if you asked right now, my money would be on Mick leaving UC on his own accord for a lesser job in the not too distant future.

Oh and congrats to Jake...Loved getting to watch him as a Bearcat.

What???

I mean that absolutely made me laugh. Do you really think Mick is sitting around, reading this forum, and fretting, "Oh my God... They don't like me... That hurts my feelings so much, I think I'll go coach Wright State where they'll appreciate me!" 03-weeping

As a saying goes: "This is why he gets paid the 'big bucks.'" First, I'm going to assume that he's actually out there evaluating and recruiting, and not lurking incognito on this forum. Secondly, I'm going to take him at his own word and think that he frankly doesn't spend a lot of time worrying about what "the fans" want or feel. Thirdly, I'm going to assume that he's smart enough to realize that this is a business and until and unless something bigger and better comes along, he'll be quite fine cashing in the UC paychecks.

I also think that, after the UNLV escapade, a whole bunch of Bearcat fans are not lying awake at night worried about what other program might "take away" their coach. So if Mick does suddenly show up on the campus of Wright State...or Cleveland State...or Miami...or wherever...to interview for their job, he'd better be content with that because I don't see UC making a mad dash to try and placate him again. So, if he decides to "leave UC on his own accord for a lesser job in the not too distant future..." I just might be content to wish him "Good Luck" just like I wished Jacob Evans "Good Luck" as well.

(Oh, and UC would be just fine... We'd have no shortage of candidates who would be interested in our vacancy.)

You mean you really can’t foresee a potential scenario where that might happen?
I consider UC a top 15 program, so a lesser program doesn’t exactly mean Wright State or Cleveland State.

All I am saying is, at what point does Mick start to believe that maybe he has done all that he can here and decides to move on and start fresh while decent offers are still there? Someplace where the attitude around the program isn’t so toxic.

I mean imagine 3 more seasons of not getting past the first weekend...what’s the fan base gonna be like then? He might not browse these boards or Twitter but you know who does? The players. This crap finds its way into the locker room one way or another.

Go to a UK board right now and you'll see threads asking whether Coach Cal is really any better than Tubby. This isn't the only fan base sour about how the tournament results. And the notion that players can't handle criticism is absurd. They're not snowflakes logging on to the internet for the first time.
 
04-02-2018 07:10 AM
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nachoman91 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Evans...
(04-01-2018 04:39 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  This town hasn't seen a winner in a looooooooooooong time. And when I say "winner" I'm not even referring to championships. We haven't even been able to sniff the opportunity to play for a championship in a long time.

This!

As a Cincinnati sports fan, my expectation over the past two decades hasn't been championships, its been ability to compete for championships. This means an elite 8 or final four in basketball, a playoff win or two for the Bengals, and a playoff series win for the Reds. Achieving any of these would keep me happy as a fan. Unfortunately, it's been 20+ years since any of this happened. And until it does you can expect fans to be bitter. And for those who aren't bitter and bitching then what are your expectations?

The reality is Cincinnati sports is a stock I've pumped thousands of dollars over the past twenty years with almost no return on investment. I'm too dumb to quit but smart investors would call me a fool.
 
04-02-2018 07:25 AM
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djtothemoney Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 07:25 AM)nachoman91 Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 04:39 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  This town hasn't seen a winner in a looooooooooooong time. And when I say "winner" I'm not even referring to championships. We haven't even been able to sniff the opportunity to play for a championship in a long time.

This!

As a Cincinnati sports fan, my expectation over the past two decades hasn't been championships, its been ability to compete for championships. This means an elite 8 or final four in basketball, a playoff win or two for the Bengals, and a playoff series win for the Reds. Achieving any of these would keep me happy as a fan. Unfortunately, it's been 20+ years since any of this happened. And until it does you can expect fans to be bitter. And for those who aren't bitter and bitching then what are your expectations?

The reality is Cincinnati sports is a stock I've pumped thousands of dollars over the past twenty years with almost no return on investment. I'm too dumb to quit but smart investors would call me a fool.

If you are considering sports an investment, you are doing it wrong.

Best of luck to Evans. I feel the same way that a lot of others do, a bit perplexed why his stock is so high. I felt that Kilpatrick and Caupain were significantly better players and they weren't even sniffed to get drafted.
 
04-02-2018 07:28 AM
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OKIcat Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Evans...
(04-01-2018 08:29 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 07:58 PM)jarr Wrote:  Good luck to Jacob, go get paid man.

From my own selfish fan perspective, I would feel alot better about this if their were any instant impact players coming in. I am not comfortable with Moore or William's filling Evan's shoes, I see alot of clanking sounds filling my head in the future. Mahan or Mitchell or Jones would be nice fill-ins, but by all accounts those ships have sailed.

The difference between us and Dukes and KYs of the world, is they all have ready to go replacements lined up. Our entire season next year probably hinges on if Evan's stays or goes. Those other programs have the luxury of multiple McDAA waiting in the wings.

We have replacements in the forms of 3* or 4* recruits who have been on the bench for a year (or more), UK and Duke have incoming freshman 5*'s. Look at UK, the 5* approach works out sometimes, but just as often it doesn't. The advantage of bench guys is they should adjust quicker (though obviously the ceiling is generally lower) and they stay for multiple years. Using one-and-dones as every year is high risk - high reward. We will miss Evans but I think top 25 team is still very realistic for next year (though I thought we were top 10 if Evans returned).

The big question is who will step up. Will it be small ball with Jenifer and Broome starting and Logan Johnson as the backup PG. Or will Williams, Moore, Hardnett or Diarra win the starting SF role. The early season development of players will be more interesting to watch with Evans gone.

Evans has been a great Bearcat and we all should wish him well. It's not his fault that there isn't a "ready now" or "ready soon" replacement waiting to fill his shoes and assume his scoring.

Your first bolded comment, regarding UK and Duke, I don't think anyone here reasonably expects UC to stockpile talent the way those schools do. Both are at the top of the food chain and pretty consistently make deep runs in the tournament. How often should we expect UC to make a deep run (say Elite Eight)? Once a decade when a rare combination of talent and experience come together? By the way, I think the folks at that little school in Norwood expect more. Looking at their past ten years worth of trips to the second weekend, I think it's fair to expect more in Clifton.

Regarding your second bolded comment, I agree "one and dones" may be high risk/high reward. Many here will gladly take a one and done in the mix if the coaching staff can blend that talent with experience to advance in March. I'm ready for some "high reward" results.

Looking at Michigan and Villanova, it's not a fluke that both teams can really shoot the ball from deep and are playing for the national championship. Evans and Cumberland were excellent recruits because they could clearly shoot the ball when they walked on campus. Conversely, turning athletic wings into shooters has had decidedly mixed results for UC and many programs.
 
04-02-2018 07:30 AM
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bearcatfan Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Evans...
Evans has potential and is a great athlete. I'm no basketball expert, but by the eye test he does not look NBA ready to me.

I appreciate what he did at UC but I think he could have done more. 13 ppg and 4.7 rebounds per game are good but not exceptional.

And for many games he had long spells where he didn't do a whole lot offensively.

Good luck to him.
 
04-02-2018 07:49 AM
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jarr Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 07:30 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 08:29 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 07:58 PM)jarr Wrote:  Good luck to Jacob, go get paid man.

From my own selfish fan perspective, I would feel alot better about this if their were any instant impact players coming in. I am not comfortable with Moore or William's filling Evan's shoes, I see alot of clanking sounds filling my head in the future. Mahan or Mitchell or Jones would be nice fill-ins, but by all accounts those ships have sailed.

The difference between us and Dukes and KYs of the world, is they all have ready to go replacements lined up. Our entire season next year probably hinges on if Evan's stays or goes. Those other programs have the luxury of multiple McDAA waiting in the wings.

We have replacements in the forms of 3* or 4* recruits who have been on the bench for a year (or more), UK and Duke have incoming freshman 5*'s. Look at UK, the 5* approach works out sometimes, but just as often it doesn't. The advantage of bench guys is they should adjust quicker (though obviously the ceiling is generally lower) and they stay for multiple years. Using one-and-dones as every year is high risk - high reward. We will miss Evans but I think top 25 team is still very realistic for next year (though I thought we were top 10 if Evans returned).

The big question is who will step up. Will it be small ball with Jenifer and Broome starting and Logan Johnson as the backup PG. Or will Williams, Moore, Hardnett or Diarra win the starting SF role. The early season development of players will be more interesting to watch with Evans gone.

Evans has been a great Bearcat and we all should wish him well. It's not his fault that there isn't a "ready now" or "ready soon" replacement waiting to fill his shoes and assume his scoring.

Your first bolded comment, regarding UK and Duke, I don't think anyone here reasonably expects UC to stockpile talent the way those schools do. Both are at the top of the food chain and pretty consistently make deep runs in the tournament. How often should we expect UC to make a deep run (say Elite Eight)? Once a decade when a rare combination of talent and experience come together? By the way, I think the folks at that little school in Norwood expect more. Looking at their past ten years worth of trips to the second weekend, I think it's fair to expect more in Clifton.

Regarding your second bolded comment, I agree "one and dones" may be high risk/high reward. Many here will gladly take a one and done in the mix if the coaching staff can blend that talent with experience to advance in March. I'm ready for some "high reward" results.

Looking at Michigan and Villanova, it's not a fluke that both teams can really shoot the ball from deep and are playing for the national championship. Evans and Cumberland were excellent recruits because they could clearly shoot the ball when they walked on campus. Conversely, turning athletic wings into shooters has had decidedly mixed results for UC and many programs.

The question I have, is the lack of "shooters" more a factor of them not seeing themselves as a good fit with our program, or our staff not seeing them as a good fit with our program, or equal? It's nice to see the Dontaie Allen kid in Pendelton County is starting to get looked at, but yet to receive an offer. He is considered a really good shooter and offensive minded player. I could see him going somewhere like WKU and averaging 20+.
 
04-02-2018 07:50 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Evans...
(04-01-2018 03:27 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:18 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:14 PM)Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Wrote:  Now Mick is going to have excuses for the next few years. Evan's left early. Cumberland leaves early next year (maybe). "If I didn't put guys in the NBA early every year we'd be winning national championships." We all know that's coming

Give it a rest....

+ 1 BILLION

It is my opinion -- however flawed it might be -- that the "youth" on this board who know almost nothing about basketball have driven away more posters than Mick's coaching decisions ever will.

Last year we lost Ctip. He was a very special person. Ultimately, he lost his life because of his service to his country in 'Nam. Very few people know that Chris played college basketball and gave up his scholarship in order to join the Army and serve others.

I can't tell you how many times that Ctip laughed at the "young ***holes" as he called them who thought they understood hoops yet had no clue whatsoever.

Jackie, thanks for pointing out stupidity when you see it.

Just a thought, but if it its reached a point where we believe the discourse on this board has harmed people's health, it is time we create two different sub-forums for hoops: one forum that is strictly moderated so that no disagreement can be raised against the coaching staff, and another that is more free range so that people can voice a disagreement with the way the basketball program is run, the recruiting, game management, etc.

What does everyone else think?
 
04-02-2018 07:50 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 07:28 AM)djtothemoney Wrote:  Best of luck to Evans. I feel the same way that a lot of others do, a bit perplexed why his stock is so high. I felt that Kilpatrick and Caupain were significantly better players and they weren't even sniffed to get drafted.
Not really tough to figure. Evans is bigger, a better shooter, much better athlete and defensive player than those two. And he's three years younger than SK was when he graduated.
 
04-02-2018 07:52 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 07:49 AM)bearcatfan Wrote:  Evans has potential and is a great athlete. I'm no basketball expert, but by the eye test he does not look NBA ready to me.

I appreciate what he did at UC but I think he could have done more. 13 ppg and 4.7 rebounds per game are good but not exceptional.

And for many games he had long spells where he didn't do a whole lot offensively.

Good luck to him.
Evans will be a good player in the NBA. He was UCs goto guy so teams could zero in on him. Surround him with NBA talent and I think he will fine.

Sent from my SM-N920V using CSNbbs mobile app
 
04-02-2018 08:08 AM
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JackieTreehorn Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 07:50 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 03:27 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:18 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:14 PM)Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Wrote:  Now Mick is going to have excuses for the next few years. Evan's left early. Cumberland leaves early next year (maybe). "If I didn't put guys in the NBA early every year we'd be winning national championships." We all know that's coming

Give it a rest....

+ 1 BILLION

It is my opinion -- however flawed it might be -- that the "youth" on this board who know almost nothing about basketball have driven away more posters than Mick's coaching decisions ever will.

Last year we lost Ctip. He was a very special person. Ultimately, he lost his life because of his service to his country in 'Nam. Very few people know that Chris played college basketball and gave up his scholarship in order to join the Army and serve others.

I can't tell you how many times that Ctip laughed at the "young ***holes" as he called them who thought they understood hoops yet had no clue whatsoever.

Jackie, thanks for pointing out stupidity when you see it.

Just a thought, but if it its reached a point where we believe the discourse on this board has harmed people's health, it is time we create two different sub-forums for hoops: one forum that is strictly moderated so that no disagreement can be raised against the coaching staff, and another that is more free range so that people can voice a disagreement with the way the basketball program is run, the recruiting, game management, etc.

What does everyone else think?

What do I think? I think it's fine to complain about something or express concern. I just get sick of endless repetition of the same kvetching over and over and over and over again which now seems to take over every single thread like a virus. If someone read this stuff in a vacuum, you'd think this team lost 61 games over the past two seasons rather than won that number. Might be nice to develop a little perspective.
 
04-02-2018 08:16 AM
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rosewater Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 07:50 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 03:27 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:18 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:14 PM)Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Wrote:  Now Mick is going to have excuses for the next few years. Evan's left early. Cumberland leaves early next year (maybe). "If I didn't put guys in the NBA early every year we'd be winning national championships." We all know that's coming

Give it a rest....

+ 1 BILLION

It is my opinion -- however flawed it might be -- that the "youth" on this board who know almost nothing about basketball have driven away more posters than Mick's coaching decisions ever will.

Last year we lost Ctip. He was a very special person. Ultimately, he lost his life because of his service to his country in 'Nam. Very few people know that Chris played college basketball and gave up his scholarship in order to join the Army and serve others.

I can't tell you how many times that Ctip laughed at the "young ***holes" as he called them who thought they understood hoops yet had no clue whatsoever.

Jackie, thanks for pointing out stupidity when you see it.

Just a thought, but if it its reached a point where we believe the discourse on this board has harmed people's health, it is time we create two different sub-forums for hoops: one forum that is strictly moderated so that no disagreement can be raised against the coaching staff, and another that is more free range so that people can voice a disagreement with the way the basketball program is run, the recruiting, game management, etc.

What does everyone else think?

I think that you are being a bit tongue and cheek, but I would like to address the posters that complains about other's opinion. If you do not like a persons opinion you have at least two options: read no further, or block the users post. Yes, option number one may inconvenience you a little bit, but free speech comes at a price.
 
04-02-2018 08:48 AM
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skyblade Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 07:50 AM)jarr Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 07:30 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 08:29 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 07:58 PM)jarr Wrote:  Good luck to Jacob, go get paid man.

From my own selfish fan perspective, I would feel alot better about this if their were any instant impact players coming in. I am not comfortable with Moore or William's filling Evan's shoes, I see alot of clanking sounds filling my head in the future. Mahan or Mitchell or Jones would be nice fill-ins, but by all accounts those ships have sailed.

The difference between us and Dukes and KYs of the world, is they all have ready to go replacements lined up. Our entire season next year probably hinges on if Evan's stays or goes. Those other programs have the luxury of multiple McDAA waiting in the wings.

We have replacements in the forms of 3* or 4* recruits who have been on the bench for a year (or more), UK and Duke have incoming freshman 5*'s. Look at UK, the 5* approach works out sometimes, but just as often it doesn't. The advantage of bench guys is they should adjust quicker (though obviously the ceiling is generally lower) and they stay for multiple years. Using one-and-dones as every year is high risk - high reward. We will miss Evans but I think top 25 team is still very realistic for next year (though I thought we were top 10 if Evans returned).

The big question is who will step up. Will it be small ball with Jenifer and Broome starting and Logan Johnson as the backup PG. Or will Williams, Moore, Hardnett or Diarra win the starting SF role. The early season development of players will be more interesting to watch with Evans gone.

Evans has been a great Bearcat and we all should wish him well. It's not his fault that there isn't a "ready now" or "ready soon" replacement waiting to fill his shoes and assume his scoring.

Your first bolded comment, regarding UK and Duke, I don't think anyone here reasonably expects UC to stockpile talent the way those schools do. Both are at the top of the food chain and pretty consistently make deep runs in the tournament. How often should we expect UC to make a deep run (say Elite Eight)? Once a decade when a rare combination of talent and experience come together? By the way, I think the folks at that little school in Norwood expect more. Looking at their past ten years worth of trips to the second weekend, I think it's fair to expect more in Clifton.

Regarding your second bolded comment, I agree "one and dones" may be high risk/high reward. Many here will gladly take a one and done in the mix if the coaching staff can blend that talent with experience to advance in March. I'm ready for some "high reward" results.

Looking at Michigan and Villanova, it's not a fluke that both teams can really shoot the ball from deep and are playing for the national championship. Evans and Cumberland were excellent recruits because they could clearly shoot the ball when they walked on campus. Conversely, turning athletic wings into shooters has had decidedly mixed results for UC and many programs.

The question I have, is the lack of "shooters" more a factor of them not seeing themselves as a good fit with our program, or our staff not seeing them as a good fit with our program, or equal? It's nice to see the Dontaie Allen kid in Pendelton County is starting to get looked at, but yet to receive an offer. He is considered a really good shooter and offensive minded player. I could see him going somewhere like WKU and averaging 20+.

We just had a team with a shooter at every position. Even without Evans, it's not like we have no one else to score. Williams, Hardnett, Diarra and Johnson were all big time scorers in HS and Moore was recruited for his 3 point shooting. We have 3 guys on the team who aren't 3-point shooters (Scott, Brooks, Nsoseme) and athletic centers who can shoot the 3 are very hard to come by. Sure it's nice to have guys who can shoot from every position, but it's not the only way to win. Kansas made the final four starting Udoka Azubuike who shoots about as well as Brooks. Loyola started Krutwig who had a nice inside game, but didn't attempt a 3 on the season.

Michigan needed a fluke to make it past a Houston team that isn't exactly packed with shooters. The NCAA tournament is so full of luck in games and matchups that it's really hard to judge what wins by looking at the two teams in the finals.

I'd say movement and passing are the keys to offensive success, if you have those then you will get open shots and open shots tend to go in.
 
04-02-2018 08:54 AM
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Loco Bearcat Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Evans...
I hope that Evans gets drafted in the 1st Round and that he has a long NBA career. This hurts UC in the short term however it will benefit the program in recruiting long term.
 
04-02-2018 08:59 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 08:54 AM)skyblade Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 07:50 AM)jarr Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 07:30 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 08:29 PM)skyblade Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 07:58 PM)jarr Wrote:  Good luck to Jacob, go get paid man.

From my own selfish fan perspective, I would feel alot better about this if their were any instant impact players coming in. I am not comfortable with Moore or William's filling Evan's shoes, I see alot of clanking sounds filling my head in the future. Mahan or Mitchell or Jones would be nice fill-ins, but by all accounts those ships have sailed.

The difference between us and Dukes and KYs of the world, is they all have ready to go replacements lined up. Our entire season next year probably hinges on if Evan's stays or goes. Those other programs have the luxury of multiple McDAA waiting in the wings.

We have replacements in the forms of 3* or 4* recruits who have been on the bench for a year (or more), UK and Duke have incoming freshman 5*'s. Look at UK, the 5* approach works out sometimes, but just as often it doesn't. The advantage of bench guys is they should adjust quicker (though obviously the ceiling is generally lower) and they stay for multiple years. Using one-and-dones as every year is high risk - high reward. We will miss Evans but I think top 25 team is still very realistic for next year (though I thought we were top 10 if Evans returned).

The big question is who will step up. Will it be small ball with Jenifer and Broome starting and Logan Johnson as the backup PG. Or will Williams, Moore, Hardnett or Diarra win the starting SF role. The early season development of players will be more interesting to watch with Evans gone.

Evans has been a great Bearcat and we all should wish him well. It's not his fault that there isn't a "ready now" or "ready soon" replacement waiting to fill his shoes and assume his scoring.

Your first bolded comment, regarding UK and Duke, I don't think anyone here reasonably expects UC to stockpile talent the way those schools do. Both are at the top of the food chain and pretty consistently make deep runs in the tournament. How often should we expect UC to make a deep run (say Elite Eight)? Once a decade when a rare combination of talent and experience come together? By the way, I think the folks at that little school in Norwood expect more. Looking at their past ten years worth of trips to the second weekend, I think it's fair to expect more in Clifton.

Regarding your second bolded comment, I agree "one and dones" may be high risk/high reward. Many here will gladly take a one and done in the mix if the coaching staff can blend that talent with experience to advance in March. I'm ready for some "high reward" results.

Looking at Michigan and Villanova, it's not a fluke that both teams can really shoot the ball from deep and are playing for the national championship. Evans and Cumberland were excellent recruits because they could clearly shoot the ball when they walked on campus. Conversely, turning athletic wings into shooters has had decidedly mixed results for UC and many programs.

The question I have, is the lack of "shooters" more a factor of them not seeing themselves as a good fit with our program, or our staff not seeing them as a good fit with our program, or equal? It's nice to see the Dontaie Allen kid in Pendelton County is starting to get looked at, but yet to receive an offer. He is considered a really good shooter and offensive minded player. I could see him going somewhere like WKU and averaging 20+.

We just had a team with a shooter at every position. Even without Evans, it's not like we have no one else to score. Williams, Hardnett, Diarra and Johnson were all big time scorers in HS and Moore was recruited for his 3 point shooting. We have 3 guys on the team who aren't 3-point shooters (Scott, Brooks, Nsoseme) and athletic centers who can shoot the 3 are very hard to come by. Sure it's nice to have guys who can shoot from every position, but it's not the only way to win. Kansas made the final four starting Udoka Azubuike who shoots about as well as Brooks. Loyola started Krutwig who had a nice inside game, but didn't attempt a 3 on the season.

Michigan needed a fluke to make it past a Houston team that isn't exactly packed with shooters. The NCAA tournament is so full of luck in games and matchups that it's really hard to judge what wins by looking at the two teams in the finals.

I'd say movement and passing are the keys to offensive success, if you have those then you will get open shots and open shots tend to go in.

None of the afore mentioned players on this team have ever been a double figure scorer against big time college opponents. Neither Clark, Evans or Cumberland avg. double figures their first year of starting. You are assuming way too much. Also, not much movement and passing in Micks offense.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2018 09:32 AM by CincyBro.)
04-02-2018 09:00 AM
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jarr Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 08:16 AM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 07:50 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 03:27 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:18 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:14 PM)Intimidate Dominate Celebrate Wrote:  Now Mick is going to have excuses for the next few years. Evan's left early. Cumberland leaves early next year (maybe). "If I didn't put guys in the NBA early every year we'd be winning national championships." We all know that's coming

Give it a rest....

+ 1 BILLION

It is my opinion -- however flawed it might be -- that the "youth" on this board who know almost nothing about basketball have driven away more posters than Mick's coaching decisions ever will.

Last year we lost Ctip. He was a very special person. Ultimately, he lost his life because of his service to his country in 'Nam. Very few people know that Chris played college basketball and gave up his scholarship in order to join the Army and serve others.

I can't tell you how many times that Ctip laughed at the "young ***holes" as he called them who thought they understood hoops yet had no clue whatsoever.

Jackie, thanks for pointing out stupidity when you see it.

Just a thought, but if it its reached a point where we believe the discourse on this board has harmed people's health, it is time we create two different sub-forums for hoops: one forum that is strictly moderated so that no disagreement can be raised against the coaching staff, and another that is more free range so that people can voice a disagreement with the way the basketball program is run, the recruiting, game management, etc.

What does everyone else think?

What do I think? I think it's fine to complain about something or express concern. I just get sick of endless repetition of the same kvetching over and over and over and over again which now seems to take over every single thread like a virus. If someone read this stuff in a vacuum, you'd think this team lost 61 games over the past two seasons rather than won that number. Might be nice to develop a little perspective.

I get your frustration, and realize that I'm probably a part of the group that draws your ire... and maybe you have a point.

On the other hand, I'm not really sure what some folks expect the discussion to be about on a message board. Most UC fans that I ininteract with on a regular basis share alot ot the same misgivings about the team not getting past the 2nd weekend. This is clearly a hot button topic, and will remain that way until we have cleared that hurdle at the rate most of us feel we should, or the program has faded into obscurity and apathy has set in place of frustration.

It's really as simple as that, and unfortunately it comes at the expense of fans disregarding 30 win seasons.
 
04-02-2018 09:03 AM
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dsquare Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Evans...
Look if you're a junior with aspirations to play in the nba declaring for the draft is pretty much the move. Shake Milton, Shamet, Melvin Fraizer at Tulane all have thrown their hat in the ring. That's just in the AAC. Once they get into draft competition it's a question of who fits, and team's needs. Where he ends up is anybody's guess. Definitely not a lottery pick, and as we saw with Lance Stephenson can very easily fall to the 2nd round which is no guarantee. If he's in the first round and gets a guaranteed contract is was the right move. If he doesn't stand out in the pre draft run up, he'd be smart to come back for another year. He's got the skills, but his consistency in big game scenarios was hot and cold. I wish him well, but i hope he gets good advice. It can be a very hard run in the D league playing in front of sparse crowds outside of tv to get the momentum to make it to the next level. You have to have a lot of self drive aka SK. Once you're not a first rounder, you kind of go off the radar.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2018 09:15 AM by dsquare.)
04-02-2018 09:13 AM
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RealDeal Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Evans...
There has never been more urgency to go pro. The NBA has signaled the end of one and done is coming and when it does you'll have a draft with the best players in two HS classes. Hard to imagine how anyone improves their draft position by coming back and competing in that draft instead.
 
04-02-2018 09:23 AM
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skyblade Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 09:00 AM)CincyBro Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 08:54 AM)skyblade Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 07:50 AM)jarr Wrote:  
(04-02-2018 07:30 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 08:29 PM)skyblade Wrote:  We have replacements in the forms of 3* or 4* recruits who have been on the bench for a year (or more), UK and Duke have incoming freshman 5*'s. Look at UK, the 5* approach works out sometimes, but just as often it doesn't. The advantage of bench guys is they should adjust quicker (though obviously the ceiling is generally lower) and they stay for multiple years. Using one-and-dones as every year is high risk - high reward. We will miss Evans but I think top 25 team is still very realistic for next year (though I thought we were top 10 if Evans returned).

The big question is who will step up. Will it be small ball with Jenifer and Broome starting and Logan Johnson as the backup PG. Or will Williams, Moore, Hardnett or Diarra win the starting SF role. The early season development of players will be more interesting to watch with Evans gone.

Evans has been a great Bearcat and we all should wish him well. It's not his fault that there isn't a "ready now" or "ready soon" replacement waiting to fill his shoes and assume his scoring.

Your first bolded comment, regarding UK and Duke, I don't think anyone here reasonably expects UC to stockpile talent the way those schools do. Both are at the top of the food chain and pretty consistently make deep runs in the tournament. How often should we expect UC to make a deep run (say Elite Eight)? Once a decade when a rare combination of talent and experience come together? By the way, I think the folks at that little school in Norwood expect more. Looking at their past ten years worth of trips to the second weekend, I think it's fair to expect more in Clifton.

Regarding your second bolded comment, I agree "one and dones" may be high risk/high reward. Many here will gladly take a one and done in the mix if the coaching staff can blend that talent with experience to advance in March. I'm ready for some "high reward" results.

Looking at Michigan and Villanova, it's not a fluke that both teams can really shoot the ball from deep and are playing for the national championship. Evans and Cumberland were excellent recruits because they could clearly shoot the ball when they walked on campus. Conversely, turning athletic wings into shooters has had decidedly mixed results for UC and many programs.

The question I have, is the lack of "shooters" more a factor of them not seeing themselves as a good fit with our program, or our staff not seeing them as a good fit with our program, or equal? It's nice to see the Dontaie Allen kid in Pendelton County is starting to get looked at, but yet to receive an offer. He is considered a really good shooter and offensive minded player. I could see him going somewhere like WKU and averaging 20+.

We just had a team with a shooter at every position. Even without Evans, it's not like we have no one else to score. Williams, Hardnett, Diarra and Johnson were all big time scorers in HS and Moore was recruited for his 3 point shooting. We have 3 guys on the team who aren't 3-point shooters (Scott, Brooks, Nsoseme) and athletic centers who can shoot the 3 are very hard to come by. Sure it's nice to have guys who can shoot from every position, but it's not the only way to win. Kansas made the final four starting Udoka Azubuike who shoots about as well as Brooks. Loyola started Krutwig who had a nice inside game, but didn't attempt a 3 on the season.

Michigan needed a fluke to make it past a Houston team that isn't exactly packed with shooters. The NCAA tournament is so full of luck in games and matchups that it's really hard to judge what wins by looking at the two teams in the finals.

I'd say movement and passing are the keys to offensive success, if you have those then you will get open shots and open shots tend to go in.

None of the afore mentioned players on this team have ever been a double figure scorer against big time college opponents. Neither Clark, Evans or Cumberland avg. double figures their first year of starting. You are assuming way too much. Also, not much movement and passing in Micks offense.

Hard to be a double figure scorer when you're on the bench behind two guys who are likely first round NBA picks. The comment was about lack of shooters on the team, and "shooters' not considering themselves a good fit for the program. That's what I was replying to. Considering we have only 3 non-shooters on the team (and Scott has potential to become a shooter by next season), I'd say we don't lack shooters.

If your criteria is about scoring at the college level, it's hard to judge considering Williams/Moore were sitting on the bench behind two likely first round NBA draft picks. Freshmen who average double figures are pretty rare. Williams/Moore haven't had much game time, but they get a year in practice and the weight room to prepare for the college level, that makes it a lot more likely one of them will average double figures. Hardnett looks promising as well, he scored over half his teams points in his teams championship win.

I agree that our offense has been stagnent and I'm hoping that will change next year. Our bigs will be much more athletic, but less capable scorers, that should mean they spend more time moving and setting screens and less time trying to post their man up while the guards throw the ball around the perimeter. Last year, Cronin's game plan was to play through the bigs. I think Cronin will be wise enough to realize that's not going to work this year. Our offense should be about playing through the guards (Broome, Cumberland and whoever the 3rd starter is) with the bigs setting screens and serving as threats to catch passes for easy scores and grab offenseive rebounds.
 
(This post was last modified: 04-02-2018 10:45 AM by skyblade.)
04-02-2018 09:37 AM
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skyblade Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 09:23 AM)RealDeal Wrote:  There has never been more urgency to go pro. The NBA has signaled the end of one and done is coming and when it does you'll have a draft with the best players in two HS classes. Hard to imagine how anyone improves their draft position by coming back and competing in that draft instead.

I was assuming that as well, but just saw this article earlier today. https://sports.yahoo.com/m/c344a1da-eba7...lass.html. I don't know enough about the draft (espcially 2019 draft) to say.
 
04-02-2018 09:42 AM
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skyblade Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Evans...
(04-02-2018 09:13 AM)dsquare Wrote:  Look if you're a junior with aspirations to play in the nba declaring for the draft is pretty much the move. Shake Milton, Shamet, Melvin Fraizer at Tulane all have thrown their hat in the ring. That's just in the AAC. Once they get into draft competition it's a question of who fits, and team's needs. Where he ends up is anybody's guess. Definitely not a lottery pick, and as we saw with Lance Stephenson can very easily fall to the 2nd round which is no guarantee. If he's in the first round and gets a guaranteed contract is was the right move. If he doesn't stand out in the pre draft run up, he'd be smart to come back for another year. He's got the skills, but his consistency in big game scenarios was hot and cold. I wish him well, but i hope he gets good advice. It can be a very hard run in the D league playing in front of sparse crowds outside of tv to get the momentum to make it to the next level. You have to have a lot of self drive aka SK. Once you're not a first rounder, you kind of go off the radar.

Yeah, Evans isn't definitely gone yet. My assumption is that Evans has put word out to the NBA teams that if he isn't a first round pick he's coming back to UC. If he was a sure first round pick he would have hired an agent, if he was for sure not a first round pick he wouldn't have entered the draft. This signals that word from the NBA teams and scouts is he's got a chance of being a first round pick, but all the activities that lead up to the NBA draft are going to be the decider. It seems like Evans is probably gone, but we won't know for sure until the NBA draft actually happens.
 
04-02-2018 09:50 AM
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