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Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
ACC guys correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it there are 3 types of ACC institutions:

The SEC schools: This group included Miami, Florida St, Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Louisville. These are football first schools and as the name suggests are more akin to the SEC than most of their ACC breathren. They don't have the air of academic superiority that some of their conference mates have

The Big East schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame. These are schools who have strong basketball culture but waning football culture (save Notre Dame) due to the Northeast being dominated by professional sports.

Greater Tobacco Road: UVA, UNC, Duke, and GT define this group and NC St, and WF are kind of tied to this group by proximity. These enrollment tendencies of these schools who are from out of state and who move out of state after graduation which doesn't help build a strong local following. The fact that most locals can't meet the rigorous academic requirements for admission. Many of these schools have put their eggs in the basketball basket and their football programs lag behind. They have the resources to compete but they simply don't invest in the sport. WF lands in this group because they hit the realignment lottery when the ACC was founded. I toyed with putting NC St with the SEC group but the cohesion they have with their instate foes puts them here.

The Big East faction and Greater Tobacco Road have basketball in common but the Big East's declining football product coupled with the fact that Tobacco Road doesn't invest in the sport (and the Carolina schools cannibalize eachother in a state that can't support 4 programs) drags the others down. Since football drives the bus in the long term this conference is going to fall further and further behind.

Frankly if I'm in the SEC group I'd be begging for a spot in the actual SEC where the member schools have the same priorities and a much broader appeal among the populus and whose sports revenue reflects a return on that investment.

If I'm the Big Ten, Notre Dame is the only school I would ever want to add. Tobacco Road will never do anything to improve the Big Ten football brand.
03-31-2018 04:35 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 04:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  ACC guys correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it there are 3 types of ACC institutions:

The SEC schools: This group included Miami, Florida St, Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Louisville. These are football first schools and as the name suggests are more akin to the SEC than most of their ACC breathren. They don't have the air of academic superiority that some of their conference mates have

The Big East schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame. These are schools who have strong basketball culture but waning football culture (save Notre Dame) due to the Northeast being dominated by professional sports.

Greater Tobacco Road: UVA, UNC, Duke, and GT define this group and NC St, and WF are kind of tied to this group by proximity. These enrollment tendencies of these schools who are from out of state and who move out of state after graduation which doesn't help build a strong local following. The fact that most locals can't meet the rigorous academic requirements for admission. Many of these schools have put their eggs in the basketball basket and their football programs lag behind. They have the resources to compete but they simply don't invest in the sport. WF lands in this group because they hit the realignment lottery when the ACC was founded. I toyed with putting NC St with the SEC group but the cohesion they have with their instate foes puts them here.

The Big East faction and Greater Tobacco Road have basketball in common but the Big East's declining football product coupled with the fact that Tobacco Road doesn't invest in the sport (and the Carolina schools cannibalize eachother in a state that can't support 4 programs) drags the others down. Since football drives the bus in the long term this conference is going to fall further and further behind.

Frankly if I'm in the SEC group I'd be begging for a spot in the actual SEC where the member schools have the same priorities and a much broader appeal among the populus and whose sports revenue reflects a return on that investment.

If I'm the Big Ten, Notre Dame is the only school I would ever want to add. Tobacco Road will never do anything to improve the Big Ten football brand.

Ive always said the ACC is an espn invented football stuffed suit. They aren’t a power conference at all. They are the old Big East with a CUSA school and upstart Clemson. They are city state schools and the big 12 will take Clemson and FSU at some point.
ACC is owned by ESPN 100% until 2036. I think that’s a very bad thing but others on here think it’s good and ESPN will carry them with the fake it til you make it strategy they did with the bogus big east football conference from 1990-2010
03-31-2018 04:59 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
Agree with the OP. I've always said that the ACC is really 3 different conferences welded together and that basketball is the main sport of 2 of these 3 conferences is the only thing that sort of holds it all together.
03-31-2018 05:15 PM
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oliveandblue Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 04:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The SEC schools: This group included Miami, Florida St, Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Louisville. These are football first schools and as the name suggests are more akin to the SEC than most of their ACC breathren. They don't have the air of academic superiority that some of their conference mates have

...what's funny is that those schools are actually highly competitive with the rest of the ACC when you dig deeper and look at real program performance.
03-31-2018 05:29 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 05:15 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Agree with the OP. I've always said that the ACC is really 3 different conferences welded together and that basketball is the main sport of 2 of these 3 conferences is the only thing that sort of holds it all together.

Yep like the original big East, the ACC is a great basketball conference. Great academic conference with 2 exceptions. (One glaring exception)
But it’s an espn created stuff suit conference. ESPIN told the country that the big East was a “BCS conference” which was their made up code for good but we all saw through that lie. ACC is the same thing. They won’t make it when ESPN starts slipping in influence.
03-31-2018 06:21 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 04:59 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(03-31-2018 04:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  ACC guys correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it there are 3 types of ACC institutions:

The SEC schools: This group included Miami, Florida St, Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Louisville. These are football first schools and as the name suggests are more akin to the SEC than most of their ACC breathren. They don't have the air of academic superiority that some of their conference mates have

The Big East schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame. These are schools who have strong basketball culture but waning football culture (save Notre Dame) due to the Northeast being dominated by professional sports.

Greater Tobacco Road: UVA, UNC, Duke, and GT define this group and NC St, and WF are kind of tied to this group by proximity. These enrollment tendencies of these schools who are from out of state and who move out of state after graduation which doesn't help build a strong local following. The fact that most locals can't meet the rigorous academic requirements for admission. Many of these schools have put their eggs in the basketball basket and their football programs lag behind. They have the resources to compete but they simply don't invest in the sport. WF lands in this group because they hit the realignment lottery when the ACC was founded. I toyed with putting NC St with the SEC group but the cohesion they have with their instate foes puts them here.

The Big East faction and Greater Tobacco Road have basketball in common but the Big East's declining football product coupled with the fact that Tobacco Road doesn't invest in the sport (and the Carolina schools cannibalize eachother in a state that can't support 4 programs) drags the others down. Since football drives the bus in the long term this conference is going to fall further and further behind.

Frankly if I'm in the SEC group I'd be begging for a spot in the actual SEC where the member schools have the same priorities and a much broader appeal among the populus and whose sports revenue reflects a return on that investment.

If I'm the Big Ten, Notre Dame is the only school I would ever want to add. Tobacco Road will never do anything to improve the Big Ten football brand.

Ive always said the ACC is an espn invented football stuffed suit. They aren’t a power conference at all. They are the old Big East with a CUSA school and upstart Clemson. They are city state schools and the big 12 will take Clemson and FSU at some point.
ACC is owned by ESPN 100% until 2036. I think that’s a very bad thing but others on here think it’s good and ESPN will carry them with the fake it til you make it strategy they did with the bogus big east football conference from 1990-2010

I agree with your sentiment. The ACC is designed to keep the Big Ten and SEC from gaining a serious upper hand on the networks in negotiations. If the SEC owns the entire South or the Big Ten gains the entire Northeast and or the gem that is Notre Dame in addition to their Midwestern holdings then if a network (ESPN) wants in the region they have to pay whatever price that conference names.

Lots of folks like to talk about how unstoppable the SEC would be if they grabbed Oklahoma, and possibly Texas as well--think about if they grabbed VT, NC St, FSU, and Clemson: sure there would still be an ACC that can get viewers in the South but the match ups are much weaker and less attractive and the institutions involved would be far less invested in putting together a quality football product. The SEC would own the entirety of Southern football and every quality program in the region with the strongest college football following.
03-31-2018 06:30 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 04:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  ACC guys correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it there are 3 types of ACC institutions:

The SEC schools: This group included Miami, Florida St, Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Louisville. These are football first schools and as the name suggests are more akin to the SEC than most of their ACC breathren. They don't have the air of academic superiority that some of their conference mates have

The Big East schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame. These are schools who have strong basketball culture but waning football culture (save Notre Dame) due to the Northeast being dominated by professional sports.

Greater Tobacco Road: UVA, UNC, Duke, and GT define this group and NC St, and WF are kind of tied to this group by proximity. These enrollment tendencies of these schools who are from out of state and who move out of state after graduation which doesn't help build a strong local following. The fact that most locals can't meet the rigorous academic requirements for admission. Many of these schools have put their eggs in the basketball basket and their football programs lag behind. They have the resources to compete but they simply don't invest in the sport. WF lands in this group because they hit the realignment lottery when the ACC was founded. I toyed with putting NC St with the SEC group but the cohesion they have with their instate foes puts them here.

The Big East faction and Greater Tobacco Road have basketball in common but the Big East's declining football product coupled with the fact that Tobacco Road doesn't invest in the sport (and the Carolina schools cannibalize eachother in a state that can't support 4 programs) drags the others down. Since football drives the bus in the long term this conference is going to fall further and further behind.

Frankly if I'm in the SEC group I'd be begging for a spot in the actual SEC where the member schools have the same priorities and a much broader appeal among the populus and whose sports revenue reflects a return on that investment.

If I'm the Big Ten, Notre Dame is the only school I would ever want to add. Tobacco Road will never do anything to improve the Big Ten football brand.


This is why I maintain that smaller conferences are better. Somewhere along the line there will be a major breaking off,


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03-31-2018 07:01 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
Louisville now is closer to an SEC school, but they relied on basketball for so long, being the most profitable mbb program and invested that money into fb. Kentucky as a whole is much more basketball focused than the SEC so it needs to be excluded.
03-31-2018 07:14 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
The cobbling together of Southern Independents, Old Big East, and Core ACC was the stitching together of body parts that still had life to create what has been called the Franken-conference. But with the right additions it could live a very long time even as a soulless creation of Dr. Skipperstein.
03-31-2018 07:28 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
Essentially the same as the creation of the Big 12 though that's a uniquely loveless marriage done purely for TV money
03-31-2018 07:34 PM
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 04:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  ACC guys correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it there are 3 types of ACC institutions:

The SEC schools: This group included Miami, Florida St, Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Louisville. These are football first schools and as the name suggests are more akin to the SEC than most of their ACC breathren. They don't have the air of academic superiority that some of their conference mates have

The Big East schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame. These are schools who have strong basketball culture but waning football culture (save Notre Dame) due to the Northeast being dominated by professional sports.

Greater Tobacco Road: UVA, UNC, Duke, and GT define this group and NC St, and WF are kind of tied to this group by proximity. These enrollment tendencies of these schools who are from out of state and who move out of state after graduation which doesn't help build a strong local following. The fact that most locals can't meet the rigorous academic requirements for admission. Many of these schools have put their eggs in the basketball basket and their football programs lag behind. They have the resources to compete but they simply don't invest in the sport. WF lands in this group because they hit the realignment lottery when the ACC was founded. I toyed with putting NC St with the SEC group but the cohesion they have with their instate foes puts them here.

The Big East faction and Greater Tobacco Road have basketball in common but the Big East's declining football product coupled with the fact that Tobacco Road doesn't invest in the sport (and the Carolina schools cannibalize eachother in a state that can't support 4 programs) drags the others down. Since football drives the bus in the long term this conference is going to fall further and further behind.

Frankly if I'm in the SEC group I'd be begging for a spot in the actual SEC where the member schools have the same priorities and a much broader appeal among the populus and whose sports revenue reflects a return on that investment.

If I'm the Big Ten, Notre Dame is the only school I would ever want to add. Tobacco Road will never do anything to improve the Big Ten football brand.
Wake Forest was founded by a tobacco barron. Their original location was in Wake Forest, NC; later moving to Winston-Salem. Their private affiliated is with the NC Southern Baptist Convention.
03-31-2018 07:46 PM
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
IMHO, there is no true Atlantic Coast Conference any more. In the old ACC, Tobacco Road was Duke, NCSU, UNC and Wake. Especially prior to Wake moving from Wake Forest to Winston-Salem. Wake Forest was in Wake County with NCSU. The seminary is still located there. GT came in as a replacement for SC. Maryland was the great northern outpost. Clemson was the football school of the conference. UVA was part of the Basketball culture and really not football worthy until George Welsh. After expansion and the addition of the FSU began the steps toward the new ACC. I believe in 2000 Basketball and Football brought 50% each for TV money. Most conferences at that time, SEC, B10, Big 8, PAC 8 and SWC football was the money maker. Probably the Old BE was the only one similar with Basketball being revenue generating. As we can see now it has dramatically shifted to football from basketball. Don't get me wrong, basketball is still a moneymaker for the ACC but it is no longer on the same level as football.

I miss the old ACC but hey we can't go back in time. I enjoy my memories of watching the 70's and 80's. Especially watching the greatest ACC player of the 80's of all time, Lenny Bias. It was a shame he foolishly wasted his life.
03-31-2018 07:49 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 07:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Essentially the same as the creation of the Big 12 though that's a uniquely loveless marriage done purely for TV money

The Big 12 was a merging of state Flagship football schools. The best of the SWC with the Big 8. The ACC brought in city state schools Louisville, Miami, Boston College, Syracuse and Pittsburgh. And then managed to let area state flagships West Virginia and Maryland slip away to the Big 10 and Big 12. I’d take the Big 12 over that hodgepodge thing any day
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2018 08:18 PM by billybobby777.)
03-31-2018 08:17 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 07:49 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  IMHO, there is no true Atlantic Coast Conference any more. In the old ACC, Tobacco Road was Duke, NCSU, UNC and Wake. Especially prior to Wake moving from Wake Forest to Winston-Salem. Wake Forest was in Wake County with NCSU. The seminary is still located there. GT came in as a replacement for SC. Maryland was the great northern outpost. Clemson was the football school of the conference. UVA was part of the Basketball culture and really not football worthy until George Welsh. After expansion and the addition of the FSU began the steps toward the new ACC. I believe in 2000 Basketball and Football brought 50% each for TV money. Most conferences at that time, SEC, B10, Big 8, PAC 8 and SWC football was the money maker. Probably the Old BE was the only one similar with Basketball being revenue generating. As we can see now it has dramatically shifted to football from basketball. Don't get me wrong, basketball is still a moneymaker for the ACC but it is no longer on the same level as football.

I miss the old ACC but hey we can't go back in time. I enjoy my memories of watching the 70's and 80's. Especially watching the greatest ACC player of the 80's of all time, Lenny Bias. It was a shame he foolishly wasted his life.

I would’ve given anything to be a part of that ACC.
The Pre Big East-merged “espn told us what do” present day ACC.
03-31-2018 08:20 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 07:01 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(03-31-2018 04:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  ACC guys correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it there are 3 types of ACC institutions:

The SEC schools: This group included Miami, Florida St, Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Louisville. These are football first schools and as the name suggests are more akin to the SEC than most of their ACC breathren. They don't have the air of academic superiority that some of their conference mates have

The Big East schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame. These are schools who have strong basketball culture but waning football culture (save Notre Dame) due to the Northeast being dominated by professional sports.

Greater Tobacco Road: UVA, UNC, Duke, and GT define this group and NC St, and WF are kind of tied to this group by proximity. These enrollment tendencies of these schools who are from out of state and who move out of state after graduation which doesn't help build a strong local following. The fact that most locals can't meet the rigorous academic requirements for admission. Many of these schools have put their eggs in the basketball basket and their football programs lag behind. They have the resources to compete but they simply don't invest in the sport. WF lands in this group because they hit the realignment lottery when the ACC was founded. I toyed with putting NC St with the SEC group but the cohesion they have with their instate foes puts them here.

The Big East faction and Greater Tobacco Road have basketball in common but the Big East's declining football product coupled with the fact that Tobacco Road doesn't invest in the sport (and the Carolina schools cannibalize eachother in a state that can't support 4 programs) drags the others down. Since football drives the bus in the long term this conference is going to fall further and further behind.

Frankly if I'm in the SEC group I'd be begging for a spot in the actual SEC where the member schools have the same priorities and a much broader appeal among the populus and whose sports revenue reflects a return on that investment.

If I'm the Big Ten, Notre Dame is the only school I would ever want to add. Tobacco Road will never do anything to improve the Big Ten football brand.


This is why I maintain that smaller conferences are better. Somewhere along the line there will be a major breaking off,


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I’d be happy to go with:
Big 10-The original 10. (Rose Bowl)
Big 8-The original (Orange, Cotton)
SEC-The 10 plus South Carolina (Sugar)
ACC-The 8. (Peach)
SWC-As was formed with Arkansas (Cotton)
PAC 8-As was formed. (Rose)
WAC-Az, ASU, Utah, BYU, Wyoming, AF, UNM, UTEP, SDSU, UNLV. (Fiesta Bowl)
MAC-as they are....Detroit or something
Major Eastern Indy’s-ND, Penn St, FSU, Miami, VT, WV, Cuse, Pitt, Louisville, ECU, Cincinnati, Temple etc (Eligible for many sensible bowls)
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2018 08:35 PM by billybobby777.)
03-31-2018 08:34 PM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 04:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  ACC guys correct me if I'm wrong but as I see it there are 3 types of ACC institutions:

The SEC schools: This group included Miami, Florida St, Clemson, Virginia Tech, and Louisville. These are football first schools and as the name suggests are more akin to the SEC than most of their ACC breathren. They don't have the air of academic superiority that some of their conference mates have

The Big East schools: BC, Syracuse, Pitt, and Notre Dame. These are schools who have strong basketball culture but waning football culture (save Notre Dame) due to the Northeast being dominated by professional sports.

Greater Tobacco Road: UVA, UNC, Duke, and GT define this group and NC St, and WF are kind of tied to this group by proximity. These enrollment tendencies of these schools who are from out of state and who move out of state after graduation which doesn't help build a strong local following. The fact that most locals can't meet the rigorous academic requirements for admission. Many of these schools have put their eggs in the basketball basket and their football programs lag behind. They have the resources to compete but they simply don't invest in the sport. WF lands in this group because they hit the realignment lottery when the ACC was founded. I toyed with putting NC St with the SEC group but the cohesion they have with their instate foes puts them here.

The Big East faction and Greater Tobacco Road have basketball in common but the Big East's declining football product coupled with the fact that Tobacco Road doesn't invest in the sport (and the Carolina schools cannibalize eachother in a state that can't support 4 programs) drags the others down. Since football drives the bus in the long term this conference is going to fall further and further behind.

Frankly if I'm in the SEC group I'd be begging for a spot in the actual SEC where the member schools have the same priorities and a much broader appeal among the populus and whose sports revenue reflects a return on that investment.

If I'm the Big Ten, Notre Dame is the only school I would ever want to add. Tobacco Road will never do anything to improve the Big Ten football brand.

You, like most, put Clemson in the wrong group.
03-31-2018 09:12 PM
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(03-31-2018 08:17 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(03-31-2018 07:34 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Essentially the same as the creation of the Big 12 though that's a uniquely loveless marriage done purely for TV money

The Big 12 was a merging of state Flagship football schools. The best of the SWC with the Big 8. The ACC brought in city state schools Louisville, Miami, Boston College, Syracuse and Pittsburgh. And then managed to let area state flagships West Virginia and Maryland slip away to the Big 10 and Big 12. I’d take the Big 12 over that hodgepodge thing any day

Be real Pirate. If the BigXII and ACC came offering ECU, you'd crawl your way through a mile of broken glass to join the ACC. The BigXII's on the verge of collapse and everyone knows it but you and The Dude.
03-31-2018 09:54 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
I think beyond a certain size it's almost inevitable that conferences will contain sub-cultures within them. Honestly, the Big Ten has a pretty clear divide: industrial East vs agricultural West. Been that way for a while now, hasn't caused too much trouble.
04-01-2018 02:01 AM
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RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(04-01-2018 02:01 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I think beyond a certain size it's almost inevitable that conferences will contain sub-cultures within them. Honestly, the Big Ten has a pretty clear divide: industrial East vs agricultural West. Been that way for a while now, hasn't caused too much trouble.

Mark, it's an interesting development the way ESPN has helped to grow the ACC. They couldn't work around Tobacco Road for the greater good in 2010. But they have grown smaller groups that alone didn't threaten Chapel Hill power. With the football first schools in the South, and the Old Big East Schools in the North and Louisville as the wild card, Chapel Hill still thinks they are in control. Right now they have veto power if Clemson votes with them which is why X is always insisting that Clemson is part of the old core. They are in fact, but not necessarily in function. And they never had kindred spirits to side with before the entrance of F.S.U.. So with Georgia Tech's financial woes and football first proclivities and Miami realizing that their concerns can only be addressed in conjunction with the other Southern football first schools, but having ties to the Old Big East coalitions can be formed. But as long as the ACC doesn't grow beyond 16 and as long as Chapel Hill is part of the 6 school voting block, the 3/4's needed to pass changes can be stonewalled. Now if Va Tech and Clemson would cast lots with the others consistently and should a 16th, 17th, and 18th be added, then Chapel Hill simply becomes another vote and will be forced to work with the larger group.

This is why X is also so fond of 15 team scenarios. It's not enough to break their hold on the ACC.

But if the ACCN and the conference as a whole is to be healthy, and if adding Texas with a division would accomplish these ends, then the old core block needs to acquiesce. By adding Texas & enough friends to form a division which is more local for them, not only does the ACC, cobbled together as it is, get wealthier and healthier, but you also instantly become democratic. And that is the only way you'll ever hold the ego's of Notre Dame, North Carolina, and Texas in peace under 1 roof.

It's control by the old ACC core that has kept your conference in 5th place economically, just like it has been Texas that has kept its serfs in the field while they live in the Big House by refusing to grow the Big 12 beyond their own control.

What posters don't want to admit is that Alabama, Florida, Michigan and Ohio State have quietly surrendered their former roles for the greater good and they are all much richer for it.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2018 02:18 AM by JRsec.)
04-01-2018 02:16 AM
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Post: #20
RE: Institutional and Sports culture in the ACC
(04-01-2018 02:16 AM)JRsec Wrote:  
(04-01-2018 02:01 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I think beyond a certain size it's almost inevitable that conferences will contain sub-cultures within them. Honestly, the Big Ten has a pretty clear divide: industrial East vs agricultural West. Been that way for a while now, hasn't caused too much trouble.

Mark, it's an interesting development the way ESPN has helped to grow the ACC. They couldn't work around Tobacco Road for the greater good in 2010. But they have grown smaller groups that alone didn't threaten Chapel Hill power. With the football first schools in the South, and the Old Big East Schools in the North and Louisville as the wild card, Chapel Hill still thinks they are in control. Right now they have veto power if Clemson votes with them which is why X is always insisting that Clemson is part of the old core. They are in fact, but not necessarily in function. And they never had kindred spirits to side with before the entrance of F.S.U.. So with Georgia Tech's financial woes and football first proclivities and Miami realizing that their concerns can only be addressed in conjunction with the other Southern football first schools, but having ties to the Old Big East coalitions can be formed. But as long as the ACC doesn't grow beyond 16 and as long as Chapel Hill is part of the 6 school voting block, the 3/4's needed to pass changes can be stonewalled. Now if Va Tech and Clemson would cast lots with the others consistently and should a 16th, 17th, and 18th be added, then Chapel Hill simply becomes another vote and will be forced to work with the larger group.

This is why X is also so fond of 15 team scenarios. It's not enough to break their hold on the ACC.

But if the ACCN and the conference as a whole is to be healthy, and if adding Texas with a division would accomplish these ends, then the old core block needs to acquiesce. By adding Texas & enough friends to form a division which is more local for them, not only does the ACC, cobbled together as it is, get wealthier and healthier, but you also instantly become democratic. And that is the only way you'll ever hold the ego's of Notre Dame, North Carolina, and Texas in peace under 1 roof.

It's control by the old ACC core that has kept your conference in 5th place economically, just like it has been Texas that has kept its serfs in the field while they live in the Big House by refusing to grow the Big 12 beyond their own control.

What posters don't want to admit is that Alabama, Florida, Michigan and Ohio State have quietly surrendered their former roles for the greater good and they are all much richer for it.

I wouldn't say 'Bama, OSU and MICH have surrendered their roles, they just rarely wield their power and when they do it is in private. I'd say the last time for all three was in conference realignment.
04-01-2018 04:34 AM
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