(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 05:45 PM)Bogg Wrote:  Again, all this was done knowing that the AQ league you keep referencing was going away and they'd have to make a move - it wasn't a golden ticket, it was a limited amount of runway. Buying a house you can't afford on an interest-only mortgage with a massive balloon payment that comes due ten years in doesn't mean your broker gifted you a mansion for cheap. Their "golden ticket" got them a bankrupt athletic department and a conference affiliation that's undesirable to the fans. It's not a golden ticket if you look back and go "Wow, they'd really have been better off if none of that had ever happened".

Maybe it's a case of "the grass is always greener", but my guess is every team that's ever transitioned to FBS would've loved to be in UCONN's situation of $200M investment (at relatively low cost to the university) and AQ status (even in a dying league).

I don't know how it's bankrupted your department either. Unless I'm mistaken y'all had a decade of major conference football TV money and leased The Rent from the state for dirt cheap.

Y'all really think you'd be "better off" if none of that happened? You think you'd be better off if you were playing FCS football in that dump of a venue Memorial Stadium? Well but at least you'd be in Big East basketball!

If Uconn knew in 1997 that they’d be in a non geographical rival less non-power conference with 9 CUSA schools from the South and Texas, Temple and Wichita St by 2013??? I don’t think they’d have spent the hundreds of millions to upgrade football and lose their geographic, historical rivals from the Big East. In fact, it would probably be deemed utterly ridiculous and be laughed out of the room. But no crystal ball was available....

(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Maybe it's a case of "the grass is always greener", but my guess is every team that's ever transitioned to FBS would've loved to be in UCONN's situation of $200M investment (at relatively low cost to the university) and AQ status (even in a dying league).

My issue with calling the Big East invite a golden ticket is, to channel most other UConn fans, UConn never actually left the Big East. The conference they're currently in is the same conference you're calling a golden ticket, which I think is my problem - the current P5/G5 split makes G5 football a losing proposition.

(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  I don't know how it's bankrupted your department either. Unless I'm mistaken y'all had a decade of major conference football TV money and leased The Rent from the state for dirt cheap.

I mean, strictly speaking I suppose UConn can do this indefinitely, as they're State U with no equivalent competition, so they'll still be the cheapest research university for CT students even with massive subsidies. However, I believe they have the most heavily-subsidized athletic department in the NCAA and are about to see reduced funding from the state.

(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Y'all really think you'd be "better off" if none of that happened? You think you'd be better off if you were playing FCS football in that dump of a venue Memorial Stadium? Well but at least you'd be in Big East basketball!

I do think that if UConn was in some sort of Big East/CAAF alignment they'd have a politically viable route to fixing their budget mess by dropping football entirely, along with the equivalent programs/scholarships on the women's side, and get to a much more fiscally viable place while still competing at a high level in sports they have a shot at being nationally relevant in.

(04-13-2018 08:29 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Maybe it's a case of "the grass is always greener", but my guess is every team that's ever transitioned to FBS would've loved to be in UCONN's situation of $200M investment (at relatively low cost to the university) and AQ status (even in a dying league).

My issue with calling the Big East invite a golden ticket is, to channel most other UConn fans, UConn never actually left the Big East. The conference they're currently in is the same conference you're calling a golden ticket, which I think is my problem - the current P5/G5 split makes G5 football a losing proposition.

(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  I don't know how it's bankrupted your department either. Unless I'm mistaken y'all had a decade of major conference football TV money and leased The Rent from the state for dirt cheap.

I mean, strictly speaking I suppose UConn can do this indefinitely, as they're State U with no equivalent competition, so they'll still be the cheapest research university for CT students even with massive subsidies. However, I believe they have the most heavily-subsidized athletic department in the NCAA and are about to see reduced funding from the state.

(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Y'all really think you'd be "better off" if none of that happened? You think you'd be better off if you were playing FCS football in that dump of a venue Memorial Stadium? Well but at least you'd be in Big East basketball!

I do think that if UConn was in some sort of Big East/CAAF alignment they'd have a politically viable route to fixing their budget mess by dropping football entirely, along with the equivalent programs/scholarships on the women's side, and get to a much more fiscally viable place while still competing at a high level in sports they have a shot at being nationally relevant in.

I don't buy that the conference UConn is now a part of is the same one they were invited to join in 1979. It's akin to the farmer bragging about the fact he's had the same axe for 40 years. It's had 15 new heads and 10 new handles, but it's still the same one he started out with.

UConn had the good fortune to be well positioned geographically to fill a hole in the fledgling Big East's roster of schools. They already had a member in Massachusetts, one in Rhode Island, one in New York state and one in New York City. They had one in New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Washington. They didn't have one in Connecticut, and there was only one choice if Gavitt was looking for one.

It wasn't UConn's fault that league broke apart. It was bad luck for them, just like it was a measure of good luck that they were in the BE in the first place. That happens. Things change - and the landscape of college football changed dramatically in ways that were beyond the Big East's power to control or greatly influence. So UConn had a bad outcome, just like Houston did when the SWC broke up.

All they can do now is make decisions that give them the best chance for success in the future, not the past. Even if some - or even many - of their fans don't like them.

(04-13-2018 04:01 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 02:10 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 01:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 01:48 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 02:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  He's probably too young to remember that before the Big East gifted UConn with a golden ticket to that league nobody knew that UConn played basketball (or anything else) either. And he's probably afraid that now that they are out of the Big East, it won't be long before the next generation of fans won't know that they do now.

I love your analysis of me based on me merely pointing out that Georgetown choked to Radford. Anyway, I am not young, so let us look at the facts:

1) UConn was a founding member of the Big East. Nobody "gifted UConn with a golden ticket"
2) The Big East was really good in the 80's with solid seasons from most members (notably Georgetown's championship in 1984 and Villanova's in 1985). However, the Big East wasn't TRULY great until UConn came along in the 90's and started winning like crazy in the age of ESPN and national coverage. That is what earned the league its long-term respect
3) The only school to win multiple national championships in the old Big East was UConn (Villanova's last two are in a league "called" the Big East, but the AAC is actually the old Big East with a new name)
4) Since we are out of the old Big East, I am worried that the next generation of fans will forget our past. However, the new Big East wouldn't guarantee anything. Look at Georgetown - they are also now a shell of their former selves.

I'm sure you meant to say that the AAC is actually CUSA with a new name. That's not meant disparagingly. CUSA was a pretty respectable conference in its day.

Exactly. We were all CUSA except for Uconn (big East) Navy (Indy, Patriot) Temple (A-10) and Wichita St (MVC)

I don’t say it as an insult. The original CUSA was a strong conference and so was CUSA 2.0.....

CUSA 1.0 was a neat conference. Football was basically there out of convenience for hoops but ended up being a strong football league.

(04-13-2018 08:49 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 08:29 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Maybe it's a case of "the grass is always greener", but my guess is every team that's ever transitioned to FBS would've loved to be in UCONN's situation of $200M investment (at relatively low cost to the university) and AQ status (even in a dying league).

My issue with calling the Big East invite a golden ticket is, to channel most other UConn fans, UConn never actually left the Big East. The conference they're currently in is the same conference you're calling a golden ticket, which I think is my problem - the current P5/G5 split makes G5 football a losing proposition.

(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  I don't know how it's bankrupted your department either. Unless I'm mistaken y'all had a decade of major conference football TV money and leased The Rent from the state for dirt cheap.

I mean, strictly speaking I suppose UConn can do this indefinitely, as they're State U with no equivalent competition, so they'll still be the cheapest research university for CT students even with massive subsidies. However, I believe they have the most heavily-subsidized athletic department in the NCAA and are about to see reduced funding from the state.

(04-13-2018 07:06 PM)McKinney Wrote:  Y'all really think you'd be "better off" if none of that happened? You think you'd be better off if you were playing FCS football in that dump of a venue Memorial Stadium? Well but at least you'd be in Big East basketball!

I do think that if UConn was in some sort of Big East/CAAF alignment they'd have a politically viable route to fixing their budget mess by dropping football entirely, along with the equivalent programs/scholarships on the women's side, and get to a much more fiscally viable place while still competing at a high level in sports they have a shot at being nationally relevant in.

I don't buy that the conference UConn is now a part of is the same one they were invited to join in 1979. It's akin to the farmer bragging about the fact he's had the same axe for 40 years. It's had 15 new heads and 10 new handles, but it's still the same one he started out with.

UConn had the good fortune to be well positioned geographically to fill a hole in the fledgling Big East's roster of schools. They already had a member in Massachusetts, one in Rhode Island, one in New York state and one in New York City. They had one in New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Washington. They didn't have one in Connecticut, and there was only one choice if Gavitt was looking for one.

It wasn't UConn's fault that league broke apart. It was bad luck for them, just like it was a measure of good luck that they were in the BE in the first place. That happens. Things change - and the landscape of college football changed dramatically in ways that were beyond the Big East's power to control or greatly influence. So UConn had a bad outcome, just like Houston did when the SWC broke up.

All they can do now is make decisions that give them the best chance for success in the future, not the past. Even if some - or even many - of their fans don't like them.

Or acting like today's Southern Conference is similar in prestige to the league Alabama and Duke were members of.

I get the whole "well we've not changed leagues so it's the same league" thing but of the 9 schools that made the Big East such a respected basketball power, three are in the ACC and five are in the NBE.

The oldest internal league series in hoops are UConn-USF-Cincinnati that date back to the 2005-06 season. That is six years younger than the remaining charter members of MWC. That's a decade younger than UAB-USM in CUSA. It's 14 years younger than South Alabama-AState-UALR-Louisiana in the Sun Belt.

In football the UConn-USF-Cincinnati football games as league games date to 2005, AState-Louisiana-ULM in Sun Belt goes back to 2001, UAB-USF to 2000 as a league game, and the MWC charter schools back to 1999. If we disqualify UAB-USM for UAB's drop football interruption, then USM-Marshall-Rice-UTEP takes us to 2005 same as the AAC's oldest three.

(04-13-2018 09:39 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I get the whole "well we've not changed leagues so it's the same league" thing but of the 9 schools that made the Big East such a respected basketball power, three are in the ACC and five are in the NBE.

What's stunning about the "NBE" is that it did indeed lose that enormous amount of brand power and results on the court, and wasn't able to replace it with anything remotely similar on either count, and yet has somehow managed to maintain the respect, and results, of a Power hoops conference. Not a tweener or a quasi or a "mid-maybe", but an actual Power.

It's been a remarkable five years.

(04-15-2018 08:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What's stunning about the "NBE" is that it did indeed lose that enormous amount of brand power and results on the court, and wasn't able to replace it with anything remotely similar on either count, and yet has somehow managed to maintain the respect, and results, of a Power hoops conference. Not a tweener or a quasi or a "mid-maybe", but an actual Power.

It's been a remarkable five years.

Additionally, there is still tremendous room for growth from the league. Georgetown (D.C.) and St. Johns (NYC) could provide a huge boost to the conference if they can get the ball rolling. Time will tell with that, but I have much more confidence for long-term sustainability in Ewing right now rather than Mullin. If an additional team, or teams, can make a deep run in March (other than Nova), it would be golden.

(04-15-2018 06:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 08:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What's stunning about the "NBE" is that it did indeed lose that enormous amount of brand power and results on the court, and wasn't able to replace it with anything remotely similar on either count, and yet has somehow managed to maintain the respect, and results, of a Power hoops conference. Not a tweener or a quasi or a "mid-maybe", but an actual Power.

It's been a remarkable five years.

Additionally, there is still tremendous room for growth from the league. Georgetown (D.C.) and St. Johns (NYC) could provide a huge boost to the conference if they can get the ball rolling. Time will tell with that, but I have much more confidence for long-term sustainability in Ewing right now rather than Mullin. If an additional team, or teams, can make a deep run in March (other than Nova), it would be golden.

Why do you believe St Johns is due for a comeback an UConn or Rutgers isn't. I know there's the guy who will tell me about UConn not being good in the 60's

(04-15-2018 07:08 PM)Huskies12 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 06:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 08:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What's stunning about the "NBE" is that it did indeed lose that enormous amount of brand power and results on the court, and wasn't able to replace it with anything remotely similar on either count, and yet has somehow managed to maintain the respect, and results, of a Power hoops conference. Not a tweener or a quasi or a "mid-maybe", but an actual Power.

It's been a remarkable five years.

Additionally, there is still tremendous room for growth from the league. Georgetown (D.C.) and St. Johns (NYC) could provide a huge boost to the conference if they can get the ball rolling. Time will tell with that, but I have much more confidence for long-term sustainability in Ewing right now rather than Mullin. If an additional team, or teams, can make a deep run in March (other than Nova), it would be golden.

Why do you believe St Johns is due for a comeback an UConn or Rutgers isn't. I know there's the guy who will tell me about UConn not being good in the 60's

? I did not mention UConn or Rutgers - and I didn't say St. Johns is due for a comeback... I said I had more faith in long-term sustainability at Georgetown than St. Johns...

I am pretty certain UConn will be back soon. Was Rutgers ever there though?

(04-15-2018 07:17 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 07:08 PM)Huskies12 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 06:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 08:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What's stunning about the "NBE" is that it did indeed lose that enormous amount of brand power and results on the court, and wasn't able to replace it with anything remotely similar on either count, and yet has somehow managed to maintain the respect, and results, of a Power hoops conference. Not a tweener or a quasi or a "mid-maybe", but an actual Power.

It's been a remarkable five years.

Additionally, there is still tremendous room for growth from the league. Georgetown (D.C.) and St. Johns (NYC) could provide a huge boost to the conference if they can get the ball rolling. Time will tell with that, but I have much more confidence for long-term sustainability in Ewing right now rather than Mullin. If an additional team, or teams, can make a deep run in March (other than Nova), it would be golden.

Why do you believe St Johns is due for a comeback an UConn or Rutgers isn't. I know there's the guy who will tell me about UConn not being good in the 60's

? I did not mention UConn or Rutgers - and I didn't say St. Johns is due for a comeback... I said I had more faith in long-term sustainability at Georgetown than St. Johns...

Why? Because of Ewing over over Hurley?

(04-15-2018 09:39 PM)Huskies12 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 07:17 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 07:08 PM)Huskies12 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 06:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 08:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What's stunning about the "NBE" is that it did indeed lose that enormous amount of brand power and results on the court, and wasn't able to replace it with anything remotely similar on either count, and yet has somehow managed to maintain the respect, and results, of a Power hoops conference. Not a tweener or a quasi or a "mid-maybe", but an actual Power.

It's been a remarkable five years.

Additionally, there is still tremendous room for growth from the league. Georgetown (D.C.) and St. Johns (NYC) could provide a huge boost to the conference if they can get the ball rolling. Time will tell with that, but I have much more confidence for long-term sustainability in Ewing right now rather than Mullin. If an additional team, or teams, can make a deep run in March (other than Nova), it would be golden.

Why do you believe St Johns is due for a comeback an UConn or Rutgers isn't. I know there's the guy who will tell me about UConn not being good in the 60's

? I did not mention UConn or Rutgers - and I didn't say St. Johns is due for a comeback... I said I had more faith in long-term sustainability at Georgetown than St. Johns...

Why? Because of Ewing over over Hurley?

I'm not making any comparisons between Georgetown and UConn or Ewing and Hurley... Not sure where you read that.

(04-15-2018 06:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-15-2018 08:24 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  What's stunning about the "NBE" is that it did indeed lose that enormous amount of brand power and results on the court, and wasn't able to replace it with anything remotely similar on either count, and yet has somehow managed to maintain the respect, and results, of a Power hoops conference. Not a tweener or a quasi or a "mid-maybe", but an actual Power.

It's been a remarkable five years.

Additionally, there is still tremendous room for growth from the league. Georgetown (D.C.) and St. Johns (NYC) could provide a huge boost to the conference if they can get the ball rolling. Time will tell with that, but I have much more confidence for long-term sustainability in Ewing right now rather than Mullin.

IMO, both Georgetown and St Johns made mistakes in hiring Ewing and Mullin. You don't see Kansas being coached by Danny Manning or North Carolina being coached by James Worthy or Villanova being coached by Ed Pinckney. They have professional coaches with zero NBA playing experience.

I don't think St Johns or my Hoyas will be successful until we hire proven college coaches. But hey, I am hoping for the best with Ewing.

I'd say at least for Georgetown with Ewing, they hired a guy who has some pro coaching experience. Mullin had none. Pretty big difference there.

(04-16-2018 08:11 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say at least for Georgetown with Ewing, they hired a guy who has some pro coaching experience. Mullin had none. Pretty big difference there.

I agree with analysis, but I would additionally add that Mullin worked in NBA front offices (Warriors - GM, Kings - College/Overseas Scouting Advisor) for many seasons, and was an NBA analyst for ESPN. So, he was not without any basketball experience before accepting his current role at St. Johns (but he was without any college and coaching experience). Similarly, as with Penny Hardaway - who additionally did not have any college or professional experience (as a coach or executive) - he had experience in the AAU circuit.

I find the recent trends of coaches like Ewing/Mullin/Hardaway/etc. fascinating because they are non-traditional hires, but big with the school because they are alums. These schools consciously went against hiring an experienced coach (whether as head or as an assistant) and went with an unknown. 5-10 years from now, it will be interesting to see how this trend plays out, and also see if other programs follow suit.

(04-16-2018 08:43 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 08:11 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say at least for Georgetown with Ewing, they hired a guy who has some pro coaching experience. Mullin had none. Pretty big difference there.

I agree with analysis, but I would additionally add that Mullin worked in NBA front offices (Warriors - GM, Kings - College/Overseas Scouting Advisor) for many seasons, and was an NBA analyst for ESPN. So, he was not without any basketball experience before accepting his current role at St. Johns (but he was without any college and coaching experience). Similarly, as with Penny Hardaway - who additionally did not have any college or professional experience (as a coach or executive) - he had experience in the AAU circuit.

I find the recent trends of coaches like Ewing/Mullin/Hardaway/etc. fascinating because they are non-traditional hires, but big with the school because they are alums. These schools consciously went against hiring an experienced coach (whether as head or as an assistant) and went with an unknown. 5-10 years from now, it will be interesting to see how this trend plays out, and also see if other programs follow suit.

I'd say there is a huge difference though between being an administrator and being a coach like Ewing. Ewing had been in the huddles as a coach. Mullin hadn't. As far as I know- Mullin didn't have the AAU experience that Hardaway brings.

Now the 3 programs you mention aren't even the first to take a player like that. Iowa St really started this trend with Hoiberg.

(04-16-2018 09:08 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 08:43 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 08:11 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I'd say at least for Georgetown with Ewing, they hired a guy who has some pro coaching experience. Mullin had none. Pretty big difference there.

I agree with analysis, but I would additionally add that Mullin worked in NBA front offices (Warriors - GM, Kings - College/Overseas Scouting Advisor) for many seasons, and was an NBA analyst for ESPN. So, he was not without any basketball experience before accepting his current role at St. Johns (but he was without any college and coaching experience). Similarly, as with Penny Hardaway - who additionally did not have any college or professional experience (as a coach or executive) - he had experience in the AAU circuit.

I find the recent trends of coaches like Ewing/Mullin/Hardaway/etc. fascinating because they are non-traditional hires, but big with the school because they are alums. These schools consciously went against hiring an experienced coach (whether as head or as an assistant) and went with an unknown. 5-10 years from now, it will be interesting to see how this trend plays out, and also see if other programs follow suit.

I'd say there is a huge difference though between being an administrator and being a coach like Ewing. Ewing had been in the huddles as a coach. Mullin hadn't. As far as I know- Mullin didn't have the AAU experience that Hardaway brings.

Now the 3 programs you mention aren't even the first to take a player like that. Iowa St really started this trend with Hoiberg.

The Mayor really had his moments at Iowa St!
Clyde didn’t have anything good happen at Houston. What a disaster.

Hardaway at Memphis will be interesting to watch. The Pres and BOD were upfront about it being a financial decision. Tubby Smith was a bad fit, but nobody saw the $ drain it would create. $4.7m loss is critical when 30% of the budget is based on tix sales and donations. A change needed to be made and Penny has brought in millions in revenue and a top 30 class within 3 weeks. Nike will supposedly be on board in a bigger way too. On court performance remains to be seen, but the program has been taken off life support and moved from ICU.

(04-15-2018 09:12 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  I am pretty certain UConn will be back soon. Was Rutgers ever there though?

YES - Rutgers made the FINAL FOUR in the NCAA Tournament in 1976 and actually had a very successful run at the top of the conference in the A-10 before moving into the BE years ago.

(04-13-2018 02:10 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 01:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-13-2018 01:48 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  

(04-12-2018 02:00 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(04-11-2018 10:41 AM)NBPirate Wrote:  My point is the previous poster trying to disparage ECU by making the joke that we don't sponsor basketball. Did you read the thread?

He's probably too young to remember that before the Big East gifted UConn with a golden ticket to that league nobody knew that UConn played basketball (or anything else) either. And he's probably afraid that now that they are out of the Big East, it won't be long before the next generation of fans won't know that they do now.

Temple was in the BE for FB and A-10 for BB from

I love your analysis of me based on me merely pointing out that Georgetown choked to Radford. Anyway, I am not young, so let us look at the facts:

1) UConn was a founding member of the Big East. Nobody "gifted UConn with a golden ticket"
2) The Big East was really good in the 80's with solid seasons from most members (notably Georgetown's championship in 1984 and Villanova's in 1985). However, the Big East wasn't TRULY great until UConn came along in the 90's and started winning like crazy in the age of ESPN and national coverage. That is what earned the league its long-term respect
3) The only school to win multiple national championships in the old Big East was UConn (Villanova's last two are in a league "called" the Big East, but the AAC is actually the old Big East with a new name)
4) Since we are out of the old Big East, I am worried that the next generation of fans will forget our past. However, the new Big East wouldn't guarantee anything. Look at Georgetown - they are also now a shell of their former selves.

I'm sure you meant to say that the AAC is actually CUSA with a new name. That's not meant disparagingly. CUSA was a pretty respectable conference in its day.

Exactly. We were all CUSA except for Uconn (big East) Navy (Indy, Patriot) Temple (A-10) and Wichita St (MVC)

Temple was actually in the BE for FB only from 1991 through 2004 and returned again in 2012 for FB only while their other sports were in the A-10. Temple is the last Big East original FB member left in the AAC.