(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

Agreed. In this instance it is the reverse of the normal way realignment works.

Cheers,
Neil

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

So they did nothing like I said. Doesn't matter if the made it to the NCAA (then getting blown out by the way). What matter is the run they made in 2010 and 2011. And the late's 90's didn't setup them up for the 2010 & 2011...too far away to make any difference.

If they didn't have those runs in 2010 and 2011, I don't think they will be in the Big East when realignment was happens just then.

(03-24-2018 06:17 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

Agreed. In this instance it is the reverse of the normal way realignment works.

Cheers,
Neil

LUC was a project add by the MVC just like the addition of Fordham to the A10.

In the case of LUC it worked out.

(03-24-2018 06:34 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

So they did nothing like I said. Doesn't matter if the made it to the NCAA (then getting blown out by the way). What matter is the run they made in 2010 and 2011. And the late's 90's didn't setup them up for the 2010 & 2011...too far away to make any difference.

If they didn't have those runs in 2010 and 2011, I don't think they will be in the Big East when realignment was happens just then.

They established themselves as a "basketball school" for their 90's/00's runs.

That allowed Butler to get connected in with the Skip Prosser coaching tree to get them back to the 90's/00's level. A few scandals at Indiana then happen and they are in a position to take advantage of it with aggressive recruiting staffs.

Horizon where Butler came from was founded with Xavier, Butler and Loyola and included Saint Louis, Notre Dame, Marquette and Dayton at one time. Those jobs have always been considered a step above the mid majors.

I'm not saying that Butler didn't play their way in but they weren't a flash in the pan like Belmont or Vermont but more of a high mid major program competing in what was often a multi-bid conference.

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Nope, give them a few years to prove themselves. They probably should still be in the Horizon.


It's cool they may get to the Final Four but they haven't beaten a traditional power and it's possible that could continue into the title game, which could be a slaughter.

Should replace Depaul as the Big East presence in Chicago.

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

Butler had some solid teams 15-20 years ago but didn't arrive until 2007. That's when they became a national program.

(03-24-2018 06:52 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Nope, give them a few years to prove themselves. They probably should still be in the Horizon.


It's cool they may get to the Final Four but they haven't beaten a traditional power and it's possible that could continue into the title game, which could be a slaughter.

Sounds like this is a young team. Should be good for a couple of years.

(03-24-2018 07:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

Butler had some solid teams 15-20 years ago but didn't arrive until 2007. That's when they became a national program.

No there is a connection between the success of the 15-20 years ago and that of the 10 years ago at Butler.

They established themselves as a power in the Horizon 15-20 years ago and separated from the others on the recruiting front.

Know it won’t happen, but the Big East and A-10 should do promotion-relegation with each other. That would make things very interesting.

I think the A10 needs to be very selective about adding teams to the conference. Programs need to be evaluated and determined to be good/great fits from geographic, athletic performance, financial, and institutional standpoints. They'll need to be a fit in all four, not three, not two, not one... all four. Quite candidly, it may come to a point where the A10 may need to jettison some of its ill-fitting current members as well (Fordham, Duquesne, La Salle come to mind). If the environment becomes more challenging for non-power conferences, as many have publically projected, it's probably better to have fewer members than more.

(03-24-2018 07:13 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 07:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

Butler had some solid teams 15-20 years ago but didn't arrive until 2007. That's when they became a national program.

No there is a connection between the success of the 15-20 years ago and that of the 10 years ago at Butler.

They established themselves as a power in the Horizon 15-20 years ago and separated from the others on the recruiting front.

Great! Then I guess UNLV is setup for the National Titles in the 90's as well as San Francisco.

(03-24-2018 07:13 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 07:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

Butler had some solid teams 15-20 years ago but didn't arrive until 2007. That's when they became a national program.

No there is a connection between the success of the 15-20 years ago and that of the 10 years ago at Butler.

They established themselves as a power in the Horizon 15-20 years ago and separated from the others on the recruiting front.

True but they didn't start to elevate from plucky mid-major to legit top 25 program until 2007. Notice there was a big gap in NCAA Tournament appearances from 2003 to 2007.

(03-24-2018 07:42 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 07:13 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 07:01 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

Butler had some solid teams 15-20 years ago but didn't arrive until 2007. That's when they became a national program.

No there is a connection between the success of the 15-20 years ago and that of the 10 years ago at Butler.

They established themselves as a power in the Horizon 15-20 years ago and separated from the others on the recruiting front.

Great! Then I guess UNLV is setup for the National Titles in the 90's as well as San Francisco.

To be fair, players in 2007 had seen Butler play in the NCAA's and some likely came for that reason.

(03-24-2018 06:14 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 06:09 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(03-24-2018 05:59 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Yes Loyola is having a great year and I think most people are rooting for them. However does one season a difference make? lets see what happens the next few years before we start talking about them moving to a new league. They will not be replacing DePaul

Well....Butler didn't do anything until about 6 or 7 years ago and then was invite to the Big East. They haven't done anything much before their NCAA tourney run.

Try making the NCAAs in 1997, 1998, 2000....Round of 32 in 2001....Sweet 16 in 2003.

That set them up for success later in the decade.

This to me is more a situation that Loyola was able to get into the MVC which permitted attracting a better athlete for a tourney run. Conference move came first not as a result of success.

Butler and Loyola had both been bottom feeders in the MCC/Horizon League.

Butler was an afterthought before building their program in the 90's, then built a pattern of consistency leading to two title game appearances and invites to both the A-10 and Big East.

Loyola dropped off the college basketball map after their last tournament appearance in 1985.

When the MVC added Loyola to replace Creighton, I thought something was amiss, and saw it as a move purely to get into Chicago. I gave Frank the benefit of the doubt in his analysis at the time, as he explained that the MVC schools heavily recruit students in and around Chicago. I didn't think it would do anything for the competitive posture of the league, and didn't see it as a great fit, as MVC schools, whether public or private, are the biggest show in small metro areas such as Peoria or Springfield (That's a good thing...I like that a lot). Loyola, in the meantime, sits in the massiveness of Chicago, competing with pro teams, the B1G, and DePaul. The Valley's bet paid off, though, as Loyola has used the MVC to improve their program and stepped up with a huge run. As a result, Chicago has now jumped on their bandwagon.

Loyola should stay in the Valley for now. If they can obtain the same consistency that Wichita State and Creighton did in the MVC, another conference will come after them in time. They're a Jesuit school with 15,000 students in the #3 market. They have a lot to offer. For now, they can help both themselves and the MVC.

The Atlantic 10 is legally required by intergalactic regulations to extend conference invitations to all mid-majors who reach the Final Four. Especially Catholic non-football schools in large markets inside the geographic footprint which are Big East raid-proof (thanks to DePaul).

Whether Loyola would be interested is a separate matter. The MVC isn't one of those BS western conferences where everyone is 1000 miles apart, they're fairly tightly centered around Chicago. Would the A10 be interested? Sure, why not? The only advantage to not making any TV money on sports is that it doesn't matter how many teams are in the conference. 0 divided by 15 is the same as 0 divided by 14. More teams = more chances at bids. May as well add every decent team not on the FBI's investigation list at this point.

Loyola to the AAC seems to make more sense to me.

I do think we'll need to see the consistency first out of Loyola with AAC raid most likely.

Maybe Dayton/Loyola to the AAC instead of SLU/Dayton as we've long been speculating.

If Loyola is able to build upon their success then sure; I think they could be a solid add for the A-10.

The A-10 has a type--midmajors who can make deep tournament runs and earn credits. For a conference like the A-10, who wants to be considered a major player in a world where outside the top 6-7 conferences very few at large bids get handed out they need to add these types of schools to stay relevant. I could see them added alongside Belmont or someone like Detroit Mercy if they ever got their act together and started playing good basketball.