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UCinNKY Offline
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Nightmares.
I'm sorry. But I am having nightmares at the idea of Nysier Brooks and Trevon Scott starting at a major division one level. Please, please spare me on the " Tre gives us hustle and defense " yes, those kinds of players are available in the hundreds. Nysier brooks certainly LOOKS the part, but he's more timid than a baby mouse. I wouldn't be complaining if he had the heart of a Eric Hicks, but right now he seems like a less talented, taller, skinnier, Kareem Johnson.

We need some offensive talent at those positions. You can have Steph currey and Harden as your guards, but Brooks and Scotts are good for abour 2.6 points, 6 rebounds, and 8.9 fouls a game. Good luck.
 
03-21-2018 07:44 PM
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jarr Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
We really could use a 5th year senior big guy that can score.just a guy that can give us 10 and 6 would be great.

I just dont trust Mick to go.thar route. He would rather either hold the scholarship or fill it with a project wingnor jig.guy that wont ready for 2 or 3 years.

I'm convinced that he is just locked in on Brooks and Scott as our starters. He could have Anthony Davis begging to come here next year and I still think he would turn him down out of loyalty to Brooks and Scott.
 
03-21-2018 07:48 PM
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Cataclysmo Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
Scott was phenomenal down the stretch with his versatile defense and rebounding ability. If he can develop a few post moves like Justin Jackson did he can easily be a serviceable big at this level.

I'm more concerned about Nas. His defense was also good down the stretch but he plays wayyyy to soft on the offensive end. If he enjoyed contact as much as Gary he'd be a lottery pick.
 
03-21-2018 07:50 PM
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Lush Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
kareem johnson was like six six

i also think we should go to a four guard lineup. i mean, mick recruited it this way on accident or purpose
 
03-21-2018 07:58 PM
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Lush Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
i'm actually surprised nysier is as a good an offensive player as he is. sorta gives me some hope for him
 
03-21-2018 07:59 PM
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skyblade Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
(03-21-2018 07:44 PM)UCinNKY Wrote:  I'm sorry. But I am having nightmares at the idea of Nysier Brooks and Trevon Scott starting at a major division one level. Please, please spare me on the " Tre gives us hustle and defense " yes, those kinds of players are available in the hundreds. Nysier brooks certainly LOOKS the part, but he's more timid than a baby mouse. I wouldn't be complaining if he had the heart of a Eric Hicks, but right now he seems like a less talented, taller, skinnier, Kareem Johnson.

We need some offensive talent at those positions. You can have Steph currey and Harden as your guards, but Brooks and Scotts are good for abour 2.6 points, 6 rebounds, and 8.9 fouls a game. Good luck.

Clark averaged 12 rebounds per 40 minutes.
Washington averaged 9.4 rebounds per 40 minutes.
Scott averaged 11.4 rebounds and per 40 minutes.
Brooks averaged 9.6 rebounds per 40 minutes.
Nsoseme averaged 11.8 rebounds per 40 minutes.
Diarra averaged averaged 11.2 rebounds per 40 minutes (very small sample size).

Point being, our rebounding isn't likely to experience a major drop - if anything it will get better. Our starting D will improve, Scott should be comperable to Clark and Brooks/Nsoseme will be better then Washington.

I feel like I wasn't watching the same Brooks/Scott as other people. If you ask me Scott played excellent at the end of the season, he was our best defender off the bench (best player off the bench if you count Broome as the starter) and flashed some post moves. He also has a smooth FT shot and looks like he should have a nice jumper from within 15 feet once he gets comfortable. Rebounding wise he was pretty close to Clark's level and should only continue to improve next year. Scott is also a very good passer. .

Brooks I agree was more timid, but he also scored at times. I think he will have a hook shot that he can hit from close in. I doubt he will be a dominant offensive force, but if he can catch the ball and put it in the basket when he is within 5 feet we will be okay. There are plenty of teams with a non-scoring 5. Brooks has more athletic ability then most bigs in our conference and hopefully will learn to post up given playing time.

Clark was great, but Washington wasn't that special. Washington wasn't a great athlete and had issues with one-on-one defense. He could go off at times scoring wise, but just as often he was jacking up bad 3's and taking bad shots down low when he was double teamed rather then make an easy pass to the open man (Washington had only 14 assists on the season, less then half as many as Tre Scott had (32)).

Scott had the best FG% on the team (55.4%) and Brooks was close to that of Washington (49.4% for Brooks and 50.5% for Washington). Granted Washington/Clark took more contested shots, but Brooks/Scott weren't completely incapable when they got their opportunities (mostly on offensive rebounds, though Scott did create his own shot now and then).
 
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2018 08:49 PM by skyblade.)
03-21-2018 08:41 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
^^^ You lost me when you said Scott is comparable to Gary Clark. To turn a phrase from Lloyd Benson, “I knew Gary Clark- He was a friend of mine. You are no Gary Clark”.

You are talking about the third best rebounder in UC history. One of the great things about Clark was his his consistency. I could pretty much bank on the fact he was going to get his 8.5 rebounds every night. That’s rare man. A lot of guys can grab 14 boards one night but only are able to get 4 the next.

You can’t project that Scott will be able to be as efficient as Gary based on his limited minutes and what he did in various games in the last month of the season. Usually it is a huge transition for guys to figure out how to go from a role player, to be expected to produce like that as a starter getting 30 minutes every night. There are other factors to consider such as conditioning, learning how not to foul out, being a teammate, mental aspects to the game. I haven’t even mentioned other aspects of what Gary brought to the table that Trevon will be asked to bring to the table.

I think the way you dismiss Kyle is an issue as well. He was not a good defender, but he brought a lot to the table that simply will not be there next year. There were a lot of games we would not have won had he not come in and put up double digit points, blocked some shots and grabbed key rebounds. As a 5th year senior, he also was a leader in the locker room.
 
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2018 12:23 AM by CliftonAve.)
03-22-2018 12:13 AM
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Ring of Black Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
(03-21-2018 07:59 PM)Lush Wrote:  i'm actually surprised nysier is as a good an offensive player as he is. sorta gives me some hope for him

He does have a soft touch around the rim. But, his footwork isn't always the best, and drives me crazy when he misses bunnies on plays when he could have easily dunked.
 
03-22-2018 05:03 AM
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Ring of Black Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
Speaking of nightmares, I just woke up from a doozy...

I dreamed that we were playing Nevada in the Sweet 16. Looked awesome for most of the game, but completely choked the game away over the last 10 minutes. In the ensuing days, depression set in among us.

I'm so glad that's over, and I'm ready for the game today 04-rock No way it's going to be that bad today!! GO CATS!!

Oh, crap... Wait a minute. It IS Thursday :(
 
03-22-2018 05:07 AM
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ucbandguy Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
There are going to be some growing pains in the 4-5 slots next year for sure. "Nightmare" might be over doing it.

Clark is going to be hard to "replace". Played hard and effectively at both ends. 30+ minutes a game. Consistent. Great leader by example. No drama, ever. You just don't "replace" that.

I fully expect some of the interior play next year to be a little ugly. Maybe quite ugly on occasion. Especially on offense.

Part of the fun of basketball is watching the new guys to see how well they grow into the roles. Frustration is just a part of it. (Frustration could be a bigger part than I like next year.) Enjoy the ride.
 
03-22-2018 07:25 AM
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skyblade Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
(03-22-2018 12:13 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  ^^^ You lost me when you said Scott is comparable to Gary Clark. To turn a phrase from Lloyd Benson, “I knew Gary Clark- He was a friend of mine. You are no Gary Clark”.

You are talking about the third best rebounder in UC history. One of the great things about Clark was his his consistency. I could pretty much bank on the fact he was going to get his 8.5 rebounds every night. That’s rare man. A lot of guys can grab 14 boards one night but only are able to get 4 the next.

You can’t project that Scott will be able to be as efficient as Gary based on his limited minutes and what he did in various games in the last month of the season. Usually it is a huge transition for guys to figure out how to go from a role player, to be expected to produce like that as a starter getting 30 minutes every night. There are other factors to consider such as conditioning, learning how not to foul out, being a teammate, mental aspects to the game. I haven’t even mentioned other aspects of what Gary brought to the table that Trevon will be asked to bring to the table.

I think the way you dismiss Kyle is an issue as well. He was not a good defender, but he brought a lot to the table that simply will not be there next year. There were a lot of games we would not have won had he not come in and put up double digit points, blocked some shots and grabbed key rebounds. As a 5th year senior, he also was a leader in the locker room.

Fouls; Scott averaged 3.4 fouls/40 minutes. Brooks 6.4/40 minutes. Nsoseme 5.5/40 minutes. Clark 2.9/40 and Washington 3.1/40.

I agree that it will be a transition, but I see no reason why Scott won't make it smoothly. Scott played in big time situations and played well. Scott had the highest rate of offensive rebounds on the teams (4.45/40 minutes, Clark 2nd at 4.2/40 minutes) which is generally an indicator of effort. His foul rate wasn't that high and I expect it to drop next year. Defense and rebounding wise Scott's numbers are pretty similar to Clark's. We won't know how Scott will do until he plays next year, but there is nothing in the numbers to indicate there will be a significant drop (should be about the same on D and rebounding and a small drop in scoring).

Kyle had the worst assists to turnover ratio on the team; 1 assists for every 3.2 turnovers (Brooks was next at 1 to 2.75). He had only 9 steals, the fewest of anyone who played more then 167 minutes (Brooks had 12, Scott 15). Kyle had a good attititude, but I don't see why people think he was a great player. He was a team leader, but his play was pretty average. Poor man-to-man D and terrible passer, when his shot was going down he looked good, but far too often he was taking shots he shouldn't rather then making easy passes or he was non-existent on O and getting pummelled on D (as in the Nevada game).

Brooks and Nsoseme are going to have more of a transition on the mental part of the game. Both would look lost at times and they commit too many fouls. But, the best cure for that is playing time. I expect by mid-season - if not sooner - Brooks will have figured it out, Nsoseme hopefully will by the end of next year.
 
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2018 08:10 AM by skyblade.)
03-22-2018 08:00 AM
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RE: Nightmares.
How quickly can Nsosome develop some sort of offensive game around the rim is the big question. He will be a beast on defense and on the glass as early as next season.
 
03-22-2018 08:06 AM
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skyblade Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
(03-22-2018 07:25 AM)ucbandguy Wrote:  There are going to be some growing pains in the 4-5 slots next year for sure. "Nightmare" might be over doing it.

Clark is going to be hard to "replace". Played hard and effectively at both ends. 30+ minutes a game. Consistent. Great leader by example. No drama, ever. You just don't "replace" that.

I fully expect some of the interior play next year to be a little ugly. Maybe quite ugly on occasion. Especially on offense.

Part of the fun of basketball is watching the new guys to see how well they grow into the roles. Frustration is just a part of it. (Frustration could be a bigger part than I like next year.) Enjoy the ride.

I think the biggest concern is the backups. Scott looked like he got it for the final month and Brooks was starting to get it too - they are both going to be Juniors (Scott a RS Junior). Diarra though, we barely saw Diarra and he's probably going to be getting 10-15 minutes per game as a sub next year. He's an excellent athlete and can shoot threes, but that's about all we know - he's going to have to pick up the game quick or subbing Scott out will get tricky.

Nsoseme is similar to Diarra, though he got some playing time. Elite athlete, but looked lost pretty frequently. Nsoseme or Diarra is going to have to play well regularly as a sub (preferably both of them) or things will get ugly when Brooks/Scott are out of the game.
 
03-22-2018 08:08 AM
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bearcatlawjd2 Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
(03-22-2018 08:08 AM)skyblade Wrote:  
(03-22-2018 07:25 AM)ucbandguy Wrote:  There are going to be some growing pains in the 4-5 slots next year for sure. "Nightmare" might be over doing it.

Clark is going to be hard to "replace". Played hard and effectively at both ends. 30+ minutes a game. Consistent. Great leader by example. No drama, ever. You just don't "replace" that.

I fully expect some of the interior play next year to be a little ugly. Maybe quite ugly on occasion. Especially on offense.

Part of the fun of basketball is watching the new guys to see how well they grow into the roles. Frustration is just a part of it. (Frustration could be a bigger part than I like next year.) Enjoy the ride.

I think the biggest concern is the backups. Scott looked like he got it for the final month and Brooks was starting to get it too - they are both going to be Juniors (Scott a RS Junior). Diarra though, we barely saw Diarra and he's probably going to be getting 10-15 minutes per game as a sub next year. He's an excellent athlete and can shoot threes, but that's about all we know - he's going to have to pick up the game quick or subbing Scott out will get tricky.

Nsoseme is similar to Diarra, though he got some playing time. Elite athlete, but looked lost pretty frequently. Nsoseme or Diarra is going to have to play well regularly as a sub (preferably both of them) or things will get ugly when Brooks/Scott are out of the game.

Diarra in limited minutes looked lost out there. I think UC needs a grad transfer in the front court and a wing if Evans leaves. You can't get back to being a top 15 team without some help.
 
03-22-2018 08:16 AM
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mikecat Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
Coming off being ranked in the Top 10 with a 2 seed and getting ready to go into basically brand new facilities and we have to rely on project big men!! Oh well let's keep playing better defense and rebounding,where has that led us.
 
03-22-2018 08:26 AM
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Def Berkkat Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
Bobby Brannen and Justin Jackson were not all that great their first two years either...
 
03-22-2018 08:38 AM
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bearcatmark Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
(03-22-2018 08:38 AM)Def Berkkat Wrote:  Bobby Brannen and Justin Jackson were not all that great their first two years either...

Neither was Ryan Fletcher for that matter.
 
03-22-2018 08:48 AM
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RE: Nightmares.
(03-22-2018 12:13 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  ^^^ You lost me when you said Scott is comparable to Gary Clark. To turn a phrase from Lloyd Benson, “I knew Gary Clark- He was a friend of mine. You are no Gary Clark”.

You are talking about the third best rebounder in UC history. One of the great things about Clark was his his consistency. I could pretty much bank on the fact he was going to get his 8.5 rebounds every night. That’s rare man. A lot of guys can grab 14 boards one night but only are able to get 4 the next.

You can’t project that Scott will be able to be as efficient as Gary based on his limited minutes and what he did in various games in the last month of the season. Usually it is a huge transition for guys to figure out how to go from a role player, to be expected to produce like that as a starter getting 30 minutes every night. There are other factors to consider such as conditioning, learning how not to foul out, being a teammate, mental aspects to the game. I haven’t even mentioned other aspects of what Gary brought to the table that Trevon will be asked to bring to the table.

I think the way you dismiss Kyle is an issue as well. He was not a good defender, but he brought a lot to the table that simply will not be there next year. There were a lot of games we would not have won had he not come in and put up double digit points, blocked some shots and grabbed key rebounds. As a 5th year senior, he also was a leader in the locker room.

Clark and Washington were the senior leaders expected to take UC to the Promised Land, now known to UC fans as the second weekend in March. Now we're going to plug and play with guys who were mostly counted on for rebounding and defense in short relief assignments? Include me among those worried. Not that these aren't quality athletes and contributors. But C and W both started @ UC when their eligibility began.

I would argue that if UC is building a program, we should be seeing even better players stepping into these guys shoes; not wishing and hoping replacements will be adequate. Maybe Mick pulls a rabbit out of his hat late in the recruiting game-- an unbelievable transfer or 4 star who starts against OSU come November. I think we'd all celebrate that.

But if UC begins seeing a steady diet of zone defenses collapsing on Brooks/Scott and the guards can't hit the water from a boat it could get as ugly as Temple offensively.
 
03-22-2018 09:23 AM
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skyblade Offline
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RE: Nightmares.
(03-22-2018 09:23 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  
(03-22-2018 12:13 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  ^^^ You lost me when you said Scott is comparable to Gary Clark. To turn a phrase from Lloyd Benson, “I knew Gary Clark- He was a friend of mine. You are no Gary Clark”.

You are talking about the third best rebounder in UC history. One of the great things about Clark was his his consistency. I could pretty much bank on the fact he was going to get his 8.5 rebounds every night. That’s rare man. A lot of guys can grab 14 boards one night but only are able to get 4 the next.

You can’t project that Scott will be able to be as efficient as Gary based on his limited minutes and what he did in various games in the last month of the season. Usually it is a huge transition for guys to figure out how to go from a role player, to be expected to produce like that as a starter getting 30 minutes every night. There are other factors to consider such as conditioning, learning how not to foul out, being a teammate, mental aspects to the game. I haven’t even mentioned other aspects of what Gary brought to the table that Trevon will be asked to bring to the table.

I think the way you dismiss Kyle is an issue as well. He was not a good defender, but he brought a lot to the table that simply will not be there next year. There were a lot of games we would not have won had he not come in and put up double digit points, blocked some shots and grabbed key rebounds. As a 5th year senior, he also was a leader in the locker room.

Clark and Washington were the senior leaders expected to take UC to the Promised Land, now known to UC fans as the second weekend in March. Now we're going to plug and play with guys who were mostly counted on for rebounding and defense in short relief assignments? Include me among those worried. Not that these aren't quality athletes and contributors. But C and W both started @ UC when their eligibility began.

I would argue that if UC is building a program, we should be seeing even better players stepping into these guys shoes; not wishing and hoping replacements will be adequate. Maybe Mick pulls a rabbit out of his hat late in the recruiting game-- an unbelievable transfer or 4 star who starts against OSU come November. I think we'd all celebrate that.

But if UC begins seeing a steady diet of zone defenses collapsing on Brooks/Scott and the guards can't hit the water from a boat it could get as ugly as Temple offensively.

I think guys not starting from day 1 is a sign of improvement. We no longer have to stick guys in because we don't have capable upperclassmen. Guys get a year or two to acclimitize to college basketball and hit the weight room before they are thrust into the starting role. That is a sign we are building the program.

It's impossible to have known better players stepping into guys roles, if they were already better players they would have been starting. There will always be an element of mystery to the next guy up, even if that guy is a one-and-done. Mick has had the guys for at least a year, developed their game and knows what they are capable of. I'd rather have that then a 4-star freshman who may take the whole year to learn to play D or may be a bust.

If teams want to play zone, good luck to them. Scott was out best offensive rebounder - actually correction, Nsoseme was best, Scott was 2nd - on the season (yes better then Clark) and if you've been reading my posts you shouldn't be surprised who our worst offensive rebounding big was - Kyle Washington.

Edit: Offensive rebounds per 40 minutes: Nsoseme 4.82, Scott 4.45, Diarra (and his tiny sample size) 4.3, Clark 4.2, Brooks 4.0 and Washington 2.86.
 
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2018 10:38 AM by skyblade.)
03-22-2018 10:29 AM
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