The thing is, if we actually became the team we want to be (Top 100 RPI consistently), C-USA wouldn’t be a bad basketball conference.

It’s really not the top teams not being good enough that is dragging the conference down, it’s the bottom being so so bad. Us, FIU, FAU, etc have been deadweights.

We need to look in the mirror before we blame C-USA.

(03-21-2018 11:09 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  The thing is, if we actually became the team we want to be (Top 100 RPI consistently), C-USA wouldn’t be a bad basketball conference.

It’s really not the top teams not being good enough that is dragging the conference down, it’s the bottom being so so bad. Us, FIU, FAU, etc have been deadweights.

We need to look in the mirror before we blame C-USA.

+1. We need players who don’t think they’re too good for Rice and CUSA as well. It doesn’t help we are one of the worst fanbases in D1 basketball. Students show up occasionally but it’s not fun to watch a 7 win team. Alumni and community support is awful. No matter what.

Rice's transfer challenges in context:

As of today (March 21) 183 D-1 players have already announced that they intend to transfer to another school. That number will likely exceed 800 by the time the the school year is complete. (Last year there were 883 transfers, in 2016 there were 800). Of the 183, 66 will be immediately eligible to compete, almost 1/3. There are 325 Division 1 Men's Basketball schools. If each school averages 12 players (scholarship limit), that is 3,900 players. We can assume that approximately 1/4 "graduate" or leave their program each year (975) with no further eligibility, so out of a universe of eligible 2,925 players, about 27% will transfer each year, or a little more than 3 players per team.

In context, it is pretty tough to build a program given the number of transfers that are now occurring in Division 1 with that kind of turnover.

(03-21-2018 12:28 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  Rice's transfer challenges in context:

As of today (March 21) 183 D-1 players have already announced that they intend to transfer to another school. That number will likely exceed 800 by the time the the school year is complete. (Last year there were 883 transfers, in 2016 there were 800). Of the 183, 66 will be immediately eligible to compete, almost 1/3. There are 325 Division 1 Men's Basketball schools. If each school averages 12 players (scholarship limit), that is 3,900 players. We can assume that approximately 1/4 "graduate" or leave their program each year (975) with no further eligibility, so out of a universe of eligible 2,925 players, about 27% will transfer each year, or a little more than 3 players per team.

In context, it is pretty tough to build a program given the number of transfers that are now occurring in Division 1 with that kind of turnover.

I wonder how many schools lose starters? I’ve always felt it’s rare for a starter to transfer and it’s usually people buried on the bench. Maybe I just never noticed it before...

(03-21-2018 12:36 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:28 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  Rice's transfer challenges in context:

As of today (March 21) 183 D-1 players have already announced that they intend to transfer to another school. That number will likely exceed 800 by the time the the school year is complete. (Last year there were 883 transfers, in 2016 there were 800). Of the 183, 66 will be immediately eligible to compete, almost 1/3. There are 325 Division 1 Men's Basketball schools. If each school averages 12 players (scholarship limit), that is 3,900 players. We can assume that approximately 1/4 "graduate" or leave their program each year (975) with no further eligibility, so out of a universe of eligible 2,925 players, about 27% will transfer each year, or a little more than 3 players per team.

In context, it is pretty tough to build a program given the number of transfers that are now occurring in Division 1 with that kind of turnover.

I wonder how many schools lose starters? I’ve always felt it’s rare for a starter to transfer and it’s usually people buried on the bench. Maybe I just never noticed it before...

I think high profile starters rarely transfer and thats why we don't hear a ton about it. I suspect there are more transfers at places like Rice, where your upside is capped - someone who is good at Rice may be able to parlay that to a higher profile/exposure gig.

IMO, if we weren't Rice fans, we wouldn't even know about the Exodus 2.0 of last year. (the original Exodus was so spectacularly ****** that it made SI and ESPN)

I think it just sucks being an athlete at Rice and that’s why people transfer.

(03-21-2018 12:28 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  Rice's transfer challenges in context:

As of today (March 21) 183 D-1 players have already announced that they intend to transfer to another school. That number will likely exceed 800 by the time the the school year is complete. (Last year there were 883 transfers, in 2016 there were 800). Of the 183, 66 will be immediately eligible to compete, almost 1/3. There are 325 Division 1 Men's Basketball schools.If each school averages 12 players (scholarship limit), that is 3,900 players. We can assume that approximately 1/4 "graduate" or leave their program each year (975) with no further eligibility, so out of a universe of eligible 2,925 players, about 27% will transfer each year, or a little more than 3 players per team.

In context, it is pretty tough to build a program given the number of transfers that are now occurring in Division 1 with that kind of turnover.

The scholarship limit is 13. There are 351 Division I programs. That equals 4563 players.

(03-21-2018 12:50 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I think it just sucks being an athlete at Rice and that’s why people transfer.

If that was the case it would happen in other sports way more often. It’s particularly basketball players that seem to think they’re too good for Rice.

I don’t argue the point though that Rice is probably one of the worst places to be an athlete. Hard classes. No fan support or attention on campus. The great academics clearly don’t matter to our basketball team and their social life is self limited to other athletes.

(03-21-2018 12:50 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I think it just sucks being an athlete at Rice and that’s why people transfer.

http://www.csnbbs.com/thread-846184-post...id15198355

(03-21-2018 01:24 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:50 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I think it just sucks being an athlete at Rice and that’s why people transfer.

http://www.csnbbs.com/thread-846184-post...id15198355

I was referring to the posts about losing starters.

(03-21-2018 03:42 AM)Ourland Wrote:  If they aren't committed to Rice, don't sign them. Make it clear that they're expected to honor their commitment. This is about an incredible education, not a coach. Damn I hate college athletics now. It was nothing like this when I was growing up.

(03-21-2018 12:28 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  Rice's transfer challenges in context:

As of today (March 21) 183 D-1 players have already announced that they intend to transfer to another school. That number will likely exceed 800 by the time the the school year is complete. (Last year there were 883 transfers, in 2016 there were 800). Of the 183, 66 will be immediately eligible to compete, almost 1/3. There are 325 Division 1 Men's Basketball schools. If each school averages 12 players (scholarship limit), that is 3,900 players. We can assume that approximately 1/4 "graduate" or leave their program each year (975) with no further eligibility, so out of a universe of eligible 2,925 players, about 27% will transfer each year, or a little more than 3 players per team.

In context, it is pretty tough to build a program given the number of transfers that are now occurring in Division 1 with that kind of turnover.

It's especially tough when your 'business model' is to sign people who want to stay for 4 years. This excludes large portions of the recruiting pool and especially large portions of the 'top' of the talent pool.

It seems to me there are a couple of models...
The guy who is a top talent, one and done goes to an established basketball school
The guy who is a project with great potential goes to 'where he can get the right look' and if he pans out, he transfers to the same 'one and done' established school.

We're so low on the 'basketball school' list that there are lots of solid academic schools above us, but there are also still lots below us.

I'm not normally a fan of transfers as a business model for Rice, but it MIGHT be a way to 'do unto others' what has been done to us. Certainly, the top kids will still go to the top schools, but you can still build a quality basketball program around just a few 'special' players... especially if you also have a core of role players.

HBU is losing its best player too - a freshman who led them in scoring and was the Southland Conference freshman of the year.

I do think any players that transfer from Rice should be given restrictions on what schools they can transfer to. Obviously I don't have any problems if Lester transfers to a school back in the Northeast (and honestly he's probably best suited to play in a conference like the America East, Ivy, MAAC or Northeast Conferences. I think we should say no future transfers can transfer to a CUSA school (obviously), another school in Texas or any school where one of our former coaches is currently coaching.

Interesting proposal by Big East...not quite as good as college baseball, but still better than today's system.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...one-2-none

(03-21-2018 12:51 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 12:28 PM)Kayjay Wrote:  Rice's transfer challenges in context:

As of today (March 21) 183 D-1 players have already announced that they intend to transfer to another school. That number will likely exceed 800 by the time the the school year is complete. (Last year there were 883 transfers, in 2016 there were 800). Of the 183, 66 will be immediately eligible to compete, almost 1/3. There are 325 Division 1 Men's Basketball schools.If each school averages 12 players (scholarship limit), that is 3,900 players. We can assume that approximately 1/4 "graduate" or leave their program each year (975) with no further eligibility, so out of a universe of eligible 2,925 players, about 27% will transfer each year, or a little more than 3 players per team.

In context, it is pretty tough to build a program given the number of transfers that are now occurring in Division 1 with that kind of turnover.

The scholarship limit is 13. There are 351 Division I programs. That equals 4563 players.

Thanks for the correction. UPDATE, as of today (March 23) there are now 211 transfers announced in D-1 hoops.

Has someone tried to count up how many players have done four years on scholly at Rice and taken a degree since Willis left (note-not trying to claim Willis should have stayed).

I think over 10 years or so there are less than 10 kids in the Tamir/Bishop/Drone/Seth group.

We simply have no chance to be competitive without quality upperclassmen.

Why are we not in APR jail? Virtually none of the basketball players recruited by Braun and Rhodes took degrees at Rice.

(03-24-2018 01:14 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Why are we not in APR jail? Virtually none of the basketball players recruited by Braun and Rhodes took degrees at Rice.

I've wondered that, too.

https://web3.ncaa.org/aprsearch/aprsearch

It seems out basketball APR has fluctuated between 950 and 980.

I actually had an email exchange with Mr Lester yesterday. In short, it sucks that someone of his caliber is leaving.

I did not ask him about his reasons for leaving, but he was effuse in his praise for Coach Pera. I dont think he will be answering the questions posed to him in this thread in an open forum, as he indicated that he did not want to affect any potential recruits that might read a board like this.

He said his reasons for leaving were mostly all off-court issues.

As I said, hate to see someone like him leave.

(03-24-2018 04:26 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I actually had an email exchange with Mr Lester yesterday. In short, it sucks that someone of his caliber is leaving.

I did not ask him about his reasons for leaving, but he was effuse in his praise for Coach Pera. I dont think he will be answering the questions posed to him in this thread in an open forum, as he indicated that he did not want to affect any potential recruits that might read a board like this.

He said his reasons for leaving were mostly all off-court issues.

As I said, hate to see someone like him leave.

I hope it's true that he's leaving for personal reasons, but I suspect it's not. Players leaving the basketball program is going to be a recurring theme I'm afraid. Rice basketball is about as insignificant as it gets. I think the program made the NCAA tournament one time in the very early 80's. We lost in the first round.

(03-24-2018 01:14 PM)MemOwl Wrote:  Why are we not in APR jail? Virtually none of the basketball players recruited by Braun and Rhodes took degrees at Rice.

As long as they were in good academic standing (GPA above 2.6, IIRC) when they transferred, there is a waiver available that doesn't ding the school's APR.

(03-25-2018 11:44 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I think the program made the NCAA tournament one time in the very early 80's. We lost in the first round.

Your last sentence is correct. But it was in 1970 (vs New Mexico State @TCU).

(I saw this crushing defeat in person. Grrr.)



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