Geez guys. Is this how it is up in the northeast when it comes to building things ?

I know that this goes on down here in the south but I don't remember UCF and even the Magic having this sort of trouble.

(03-21-2018 10:42 AM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  Geez guys. Is this how it is up in the northeast when it comes to building things ?

I know that this goes on down here in the south but I don't remember UCF and even the Magic having this sort of trouble.

It's a land issue. I grew up in the north and now live in the south, land in the inner cities (along with construction costs) are just ridiculous.

(03-21-2018 10:42 AM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  Geez guys. Is this how it is up in the northeast when it comes to building things ?

I know that this goes on down here in the south but I don't remember UCF and even the Magic having this sort of trouble.

Yes, it’s messy to get things done. Too many people with too many agendas. But the comparison to UCF is a stretch. UCF has a much larger land area and is not in the middle of a major city. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seemed like UCF was able to fast track everything to get this done, while Temple, trying to please everyone, dragged its feet and let the opposition organize. When I was a student there in the late 80’s, I remember a protest by nearby residents, about a dozen or so, carrying signs accusing Temple of being colonists, in other words, suggesting Temple had moved in and displaced the locals. In fact, when Temple was founded, they were at the edge of the city, with very few nearby residents. The local area actually grew around Temple, not the other way around. But that same mentality still exists, that the University is the interloper. And typically many forget the tens of millions that Temple provides in health, economic and development funds in North Philadelphia.

(03-21-2018 10:56 AM)vick mike Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 10:42 AM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  Geez guys. Is this how it is up in the northeast when it comes to building things ?

I know that this goes on down here in the south but I don't remember UCF and even the Magic having this sort of trouble.

Yes, it’s messy to get things done. Too many people with too many agendas. But the comparison to UCF is a stretch. UCF has a much larger land area and is not in the middle of a major city. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seemed like UCF was able to fast track everything to get this done, while Temple, trying to please everyone, dragged its feet and let the opposition organize. When I was a student there in the late 80’s, I remember a protest by nearby residents, about a dozen or so, carrying signs accusing Temple of being colonists, in other words, suggesting Temple had moved in and displaced the locals. In fact, when Temple was founded, they were at the edge of the city, with very few nearby residents. The local area actually grew around Temple, not the other way around. But that same mentality still exists, that the University is the interloper. And typically many forget the tens of millions that Temple provides in health, economic and development funds in North Philadelphia.

Yeah, you're right. I think the biggest difference here though is that UCF is out in the suburbs, not downtown. When the chief NIMBY turned out to be a busybody yenta that didn't even live nearby, the rest of the opposition collapsed.

As for the Magic, once the right amount of money was agreed upon, everyone got quiet. It happened without a lot of residual animosity. It is a damn nice arena too. A bit too antiseptic for my tastes though.

But yeah, I understand to a degree. I have been to Philly once. My uncle lives in the Kensington area and it was definitely a culture shock coming from, at the time at least, lily white picket fence Orlando.

(03-20-2018 11:39 AM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  

(03-20-2018 11:34 AM)No Bull Wrote:  pay the "community".... line some pockets... promise some concession jobs... promise to limit stadium use to a few games a year... name the stadium after a prominent deceased member of the "community"... commit to a listening tour....


Get er done....

Remember when the chief NIMBY who bitched about BHSS/SS turned out to be some busybody yenta who didn't even live nearby ?

Yeah. And we got by pretty fortunate too since there was already a lot of goodwill and support for our stadium.

I can only imagine the hell poor Temple is going through right now...

I remember...too well. UCF moved decisively. Temple should do the same. The demands of the community and Nimby's only get worse the longer you negotiate....

(03-21-2018 10:56 AM)vick mike Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 10:42 AM)thespiritof1976 Wrote:  Geez guys. Is this how it is up in the northeast when it comes to building things ?

I know that this goes on down here in the south but I don't remember UCF and even the Magic having this sort of trouble.

Yes, it’s messy to get things done. Too many people with too many agendas. But the comparison to UCF is a stretch. UCF has a much larger land area and is not in the middle of a major city. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seemed like UCF was able to fast track everything to get this done, while Temple, trying to please everyone, dragged its feet and let the opposition organize. When I was a student there in the late 80’s, I remember a protest by nearby residents, about a dozen or so, carrying signs accusing Temple of being colonists, in other words, suggesting Temple had moved in and displaced the locals. In fact, when Temple was founded, they were at the edge of the city, with very few nearby residents. The local area actually grew around Temple, not the other way around. But that same mentality still exists, that the University is the interloper. And typically many forget the tens of millions that Temple provides in health, economic and development funds in North Philadelphia.

I agree comparing UCF's situation to Temple's is apples to oranges... UCF moved very decisively and very quickly... Temple should do the same. "the community" cannot be appeased. Pay the loudest of the "community organizers off... line there pockets and then bring in the bulldozers... move decisively Owls...

I provided proof Temple just concluded a 15 year lease where they paid 15 million. That is an incredibly generous lease. The only numbers about it being higher for the extension are provided by OCS supporters. It has not been publicly divulged however, it was on the same terms as the 1st 15 years, only difference, the Eagles wanted the money up front......2 million dollars. Operating costs have increased w inflation and the number of fans coming to the Linc. Temple routinely played in front of 5,000 or less in the early 00's when the deal was signed.

If you dont believe that's a generous lease for a half billion dollar facility, return your degrees and get back to Walmart. Your needed at the snack bar for a cleanup.

Pitt and the Steelers never divilgded their agreement. You wont find one article on the internet with the details. So Eagles fans just assume its free. Vikmike like everyone else, expect everything to be free.

Build the OCS, you will find out just how expensive college football is in the real world. Temple cant even afford to fire their MBB coach......and they want 135 million for a stadium.

Dumbest fanbase in North America

(03-21-2018 11:57 AM)KenneySense Wrote:  I provided proof Temple just concluded a 15 year lease where they paid 15 million. That is an incredibly generous lease. The only numbers about it being higher for the extension are provided by OCS supporters. It has not been publicly divulged however, it was on the same terms as the 1st 15 years, only difference, the Eagles wanted the money up front......2 million dollars. Operating costs have increased w inflation and the number of fans coming to the Linc. Temple routinely played in front of 5,000 or less in the early 00's when the deal was signed.

If you dont believe that's a generous lease for a half billion dollar facility, return your degrees and get back to Walmart. Your needed at the snack bar for a cleanup.

Pitt and the Steelers never divilgded their agreement. You wont find one article on the internet with the details. So Eagles fans just assume its free. Vikmike like everyone else, expect everything to be free.

Build the OCS, you will find out just how expensive college football is in the real world. Temple cant even afford to fire their MBB coach......and they want 135 million for a stadium.

Dumbest fanbase in North America

Well gee whiz man, I'd hate to see what your opinions are about the rest of the conference teams and their fans ?

I'm pretty satisfied with the conference. Thats why I would like to remain viable. Our BB Program is not pulling its weight and I dont want to see our FB Program rendered irrelevant too. Of the posters here, I wonder how many have been around Temple's campus and have any idea where this joke is gonna be stuffed into.

If I had to pick a group or two I dont like, its hillbilly UCF fans who think they are the national champions and WSU fans who think this is the MVC

(03-21-2018 01:28 PM)KenneySense Wrote:  I'm pretty satisfied with the conference. Thats why I would like to remain viable. Our BB Program is not pulling its weight and I dont want to see our FB Program rendered irrelevant too. Of the posters here, I wonder how many have been around Temple's campus and have any idea where this joke is gonna be stuffed into.

If I had to pick a group or two I dont like, its hillbilly UCF fans who think they are the national champions and WSU fans who think this is the MVC

Oh, aren't you a Peach ?

I am sure that you are quite the ladies man. Like a roll of Mentos, fresh and full of life.

Alright Kenny provided no source for his assertion and what he claimed as proof made no mention of numbers.

Tulsa squeezed a 40,000 seat Skelly in a tiny area before it was remodeled down to 28,500. TCU's stadium is squeezed into a ridiculously small area too. So I'm quite sure one can be squeezed in some where so space is not truely an issue. I'm also quite sure they are not squeezing it into a half acre.

Owning when planning long term is always better simply for control. I don't discount that there are some issues that will make it difficult including finances, politics, local community, parking, space, etc. But a large reason Tulsa has continued to compete at the top level is an on campus stadium and the benefits it provides. A stadium we started in 1930 and truely built in 1947. So the question isn't how much benefit Temple will get from one year or two. Or even ten or twenty, but in fifty or seventy years.

(03-21-2018 02:48 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  Alright Kenny provided no source for his assertion and what he claimed as proof made no mention of numbers.

Tulsa squeezed a 40,000 seat Skelly in a tiny area before it was remodeled down to 28,500. TCU's stadium is squeezed into a ridiculously small area too. So I'm quite sure one can be squeezed in some where so space is not truely an issue. I'm also quite sure they are not squeezing it into a half acre.

Owning when planning long term is always better simply for control. I don't discount that there are some issues that will make it difficult including finances, politics, local community, parking, space, etc. But a large reason Tulsa has continued to compete at the top level is an on campus stadium and the benefits it provides. A stadium we started in 1930 and truely built in 1947. So the question isn't how much benefit Temple will get from one year or two. Or even ten or twenty, but in fifty or seventy years.

Exactly. At least build something now and then you have decades afterwards to build onto and/or replace stuff (bleachers replaced with chairs w/ backs and cup holders, etc...) as you can go.

You keep the revenues and have the increased equity.

I know UCF catches some hell for their erector set steel stadium but over the past few years, they have improved on it here and there. The cabana, the new club seats, lazy river and mini gold coming next year, maybe a tower/suite expansion next, etc...

Maybe in another ten years or so additional aesthetics can be done such as a full height concrete/brick facade to hide the steel.

(03-21-2018 02:48 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  But a large reason Tulsa has continued to compete at the top level is an on campus stadium and the benefits it provides.

A high level ????

Looked at your OoC Home Schedule.....ULL, New Mexico, NC AT&T, FAU, La Monroe ???

Please exit the conversation. A product like Tulsa's playing those kind of games would cripple Temple

(03-21-2018 03:03 PM)KenneySense Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 02:48 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  But a large reason Tulsa has continued to compete at the top level is an on campus stadium and the benefits it provides.

A high level ????

Looked at your OoC Home Schedule.....ULL, New Mexico, NC AT&T, FAU, La Monroe ???

Please exit the conversation. A product like Tulsa's playing those kind of games would cripple Temple

So in other words Tulsa's OOC home schedule is akin to that of every SEC team.

You didn't think this through too well now, did you ?

(03-21-2018 03:03 PM)KenneySense Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 02:48 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  But a large reason Tulsa has continued to compete at the top level is an on campus stadium and the benefits it provides.

A high level ????

Looked at your OoC Home Schedule.....ULL, New Mexico, NC AT&T, FAU, La Monroe ???

Please exit the conversation. A product like Tulsa's playing those kind of games would cripple Temple

I wasn't aware that you all were trying to sign ooc games vs the south and southwest, you probably shouldn't do that.

Mean while as an independent we had teams sign up to play us like Arkansas, Miami, Texas AnM, Oklahoma, Ok St, Houston as part of the SWC, Iowa, etc. Since joining a conference we have had various big xii programs on our home slate including Texas tech, kansas, Iowa State, Missouri, and the Oklahoma and Oklahoma St series we maintain on local ties. All that revenue, the tickets, the parking, the concessions, all ours. The oncampus stadium has paid for itself many times over. It also kept us at FBS status our entire history despite having an enrollment of 2300.

You're basically arguing about if it's better to rent a house or build one that you can leave to your children, and their children, and their children.

Here is the thing, let's say you're right and it's a good deal, that the eagles are keeping quiet because they would rather not have Temple there.

Eagles win back to back Superbowls and decide to jack up the price, what then? Or worse they just decide they don't want to renew the deal period. Then what? You ask the soccer franchise pretty please can a major FBS team play in their stadium? You play at Nova's place? A high school?

Guess what you own the stadium people come ask you to use it and you never have to worry about where you will play.

(03-21-2018 03:41 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  You're basically arguing about if it's better to rent a house or build one that you can leave to your children, and their children, and their children.

Nope. I'm saying once Temple fans find out what they are buying and what it will cost them, they will not support the Football Program. My concern is about my alma mater's continued Football. There is no additional parking and Temple University is bordered by some of the most dangerous zip codes in the State. Our President believes people are going to take public transportation through these neighborhoods to come to games. Curious, will visiting AAC fans do this ?

Currently, the two high definition video boards and their subsequent improvement will cost about as much as the money Temple intends to use to build their whole stadium.

Just yesterday, someone asked on Temple's boards "Are they planning to replace the seats with bench seating?" Other's believe that Temple is building a "state of the art" miniature Linc.

They have no idea how generic this facility will be.....and no one comes to the beautiful basketball arena we have right next door

(03-21-2018 03:54 PM)KenneySense Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 03:41 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  You're basically arguing about if it's better to rent a house or build one that you can leave to your children, and their children, and their children.

Nope. I'm saying once Temple fans find out what they are buying and what it will cost them, they will not support the Football Program. My concern is about my alma mater's continued Football. There is no additional parking and Temple University is bordered by some of the most dangerous zip codes in the State. Our President believes people are going to take public transportation through these neighborhoods to come to games. Curious, will visiting AAC fans do this ?

Currently, the two high definition video boards and their subsequent improvement will cost about as much as the money Temple intends to use to build their whole stadium.

Just yesterday, someone asked on Temple's boards "Are they planning to replace the seats with bench seating?" Other's believe that Temple is building a "state of the art" miniature Linc.

They have no idea how generic this facility will be.....and no one comes to the beautiful basketball arena we have right next door

Have you ever thought about being a sports radio host ? You could single handedly upset everyone while also having them want to listen to what you'll say next. Sure, they'll all hate you but you'll also have high ratings.

(03-21-2018 03:54 PM)KenneySense Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 03:41 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  You're basically arguing about if it's better to rent a house or build one that you can leave to your children, and their children, and their children.

Nope. I'm saying once Temple fans find out what they are buying and what it will cost them, they will not support the Football Program. My concern is about my alma mater's continued Football. There is no additional parking and Temple University is bordered by some of the most dangerous zip codes in the State. Our President believes people are going to take public transportation through these neighborhoods to come to games. Curious, will visiting AAC fans do this ?

Currently, the two high definition video boards and their subsequent improvement will cost about as much as the money Temple intends to use to build their whole stadium.

Just yesterday, someone asked on Temple's boards "Are they planning to replace the seats with bench seating?" Other's believe that Temple is building a "state of the art" miniature Linc.

They have no idea how generic this facility will be.....and no one comes to the beautiful basketball arena we have right next door

So what you are essentially saying is your scared.

Again long term you can improve your own house as you see fit.

You didn't answer any of the legitimate points I raised about the continued leasing strategy all of which could kill your program. All of which are more likely than Temple building a stadium no one will come to. The likelyhood is higher that the stadium and expanded campus presence will increase attendance and gentrfy the area. Which is why the stompers are there. They share the exact opposite view from you.

(03-21-2018 04:27 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  So what you are essentially saying is your scared.

Again long term you can improve your own house as you see fit.

You didn't answer any of the legitimate points I raised about the continued leasing strategy all of which could kill your program. All of which are more likely than Temple building a stadium no one will come to. The likelyhood is higher that the stadium and expanded campus presence will increase attendance and gentrfy the area. Which is why the stompers are there. They share the exact opposite view from you.

Yes, I am having seen Temple fans in action. Of course, you are arguing with me about a place I was born and raised and I wonder if you have ever step foot in Philadelphia.

A football stadium will not gentrify North Philadelphia. If stadiums did, they would be popping up all over hardscrabble neighborhoods all over the country. There is no need to have any further discussions. Lemme know when you train over to the Broad St iline and subway up, I;ll meet you, say Lehigh Station and take you for a tour of the gentry.

(03-21-2018 04:27 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 03:54 PM)KenneySense Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 03:41 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  You're basically arguing about if it's better to rent a house or build one that you can leave to your children, and their children, and their children.

Nope. I'm saying once Temple fans find out what they are buying and what it will cost them, they will not support the Football Program. My concern is about my alma mater's continued Football. There is no additional parking and Temple University is bordered by some of the most dangerous zip codes in the State. Our President believes people are going to take public transportation through these neighborhoods to come to games. Curious, will visiting AAC fans do this ?

Currently, the two high definition video boards and their subsequent improvement will cost about as much as the money Temple intends to use to build their whole stadium.

Just yesterday, someone asked on Temple's boards "Are they planning to replace the seats with bench seating?" Other's believe that Temple is building a "state of the art" miniature Linc.

They have no idea how generic this facility will be.....and no one comes to the beautiful basketball arena we have right next door

So what you are essentially saying is your scared.

Again long term you can improve your own house as you see fit.

You didn't answer any of the legitimate points I raised about the continued leasing strategy all of which could kill your program. All of which are more likely than Temple building a stadium no one will come to. The likelyhood is higher that the stadium and expanded campus presence will increase attendance and gentrfy the area. Which is why the stompers are there. They share the exact opposite view from you.

TU4ever, nailed it,Kenney is scared. And he will say anything to make his point. He will say in one post that Temples neighbors are terrible criminal thugs; in another he will say we should listen to their pleas. He will rail against taxpayers money for the stadium while not acknowledging the taxpayer dollars used for the Linc. He will claim that we need the Linc to fill up for big games yet decry the terrible Temple alumni who don’t show up. He’s scared to lose his tailgating spot his seat his easy access to highways. He’s scared that the new stadium is not for him but for the future of the program and building our fan base on campus.