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EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
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Post: #41
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-17-2018 07:07 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(03-17-2018 07:42 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  If Eastern Michigan is eight miles from Ann Arbor, why does the school even exist?

The school should have been merged with Oakland and/or Michigan. Send the football team to Oakland and they could have played in Pontiac (too late for that now). Let EMU-Oakland maintain an extension center alongside Michigan on EMU’s current campus.

Alternatively, merge EMU with Wayne State. Expand Adams Field from 6,000 to 16,000, and move bigger games to Ford Field.

This why waste so much money for a school when another public school is right down the road? In NC we need to drop several Public schools. For example we don’t need Western and UNC Asheville we just need one school to serve that region. Same goes for UNC Pembroke and Fayetteville State. EC State also needs to be closed down. We also don’t need three public schools in the triangle. NC State and UNC is enough. Not sure if we still need NC Central.

EMU and UM have different purposes. Don't know about Oakland vs. EMU.
03-18-2018 08:37 AM
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Post: #42
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-17-2018 04:12 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-17-2018 04:00 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  EMU students and Faculty want them to drop football and go down to D-II. That would cut the budget from $30M/year to about $5M/year. No shock the Athletic department vehemently opposes the majority opinion.

As for who the MAC would get for a replacement should EMU drop out, one school stands out, James Madison.

WKU, Marshall and Old Dominion would be possibilities. They would probably take any two of them now even without losing a school.

No.
03-18-2018 10:15 AM
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Post: #43
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-17-2018 10:28 AM)58-56 Wrote:  Want to require more accountability? Great. They'll hire a new vice assistant senior provost at $400K to look into that.

You're absolutely right about that. Problem is, this profusion of vice assistant chancellors and the like love FBS football. Lots of prestige and perks for them in that.

So the explosion in administration over the past 20 years has fed in to the explosion in athletic budgets, and the soaking of the academic 'side' (funny how the entire reason for a school's existence is now a 'side', LOL) via fees and transfers.
03-18-2018 12:05 PM
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Post: #44
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-16-2018 02:53 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  weaaaah weaaah weaaah said the professor. All these faculty members care about is themselves and their programs (which I understand), and they see athletics as an easy target. The most vocal of them grew up hating sports to begin with, so they are completely biased. The vocal ones usually didn't attend the university that they teach at and have no history of attending games or feeling any sort of connection to the athletic department. A lot of them have also had some bad interactions with athletes in their classes that have also swayed their view of things.

I've had discussions in person and via email with a number of anti-sports professors at UMass and they are all a bunch of whiny idiots who simply want more money for their programs and think if they whine about the athletic department budget then maybe the school will give them some extra money to be quiet.

Oh, and they also all refuse to even come to a tailgate or game and try to understand why athletics are so important to a university community.
I agree.
03-19-2018 12:16 AM
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Post: #45
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
Eh, people have been saying EMU is going to be kicked out of the MAC or cut football/athletics for decades now (even by fellow MAC fans). Nothing new here. Instructors/professors protest athletics at almost every college, it seems, outside of the really big names.

I think if we were to kick a team out of the MAC (which we won't), we'd invite an Illinois or Indiana school like Indiana St or Illinois St.

(03-17-2018 07:42 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  If Eastern Michigan is eight miles from Ann Arbor, why does the school even exist?

Largely different student populations (meaning the kind of students they get)

(03-17-2018 07:42 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  The school should have been merged with Oakland and/or Michigan. Send the football team to Oakland and they could have played in Pontiac (too late for that now). Let EMU-Oakland maintain an extension center alongside Michigan on EMU’s current campus.

Alternatively, merge EMU with Wayne State. Expand Adams Field from 6,000 to 16,000, and move bigger games to Ford Field.
I agree. Quite a few Detroit-area schools they could've merged with.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2018 12:26 AM by Bronco'14.)
03-19-2018 12:20 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #46
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
The cost of tuition seems to increase yearly. Schools are becoming administrator-heavy. Adjunct faculty pools are far larger, multiple times over, than full-time roles.

Faculty's contribution in this? B****!
03-19-2018 04:17 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #47
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-19-2018 12:20 AM)Bronco14 Wrote:  Eh, people have been saying EMU is going to be kicked out of the MAC or cut football/athletics for decades now (even by fellow MAC fans). Nothing new here. Instructors/professors protest athletics at almost every college, it seems, outside of the really big names.

They even protest at the big name schools. Until you shut them up with facts.

This is from Clemson in 2012
http://archive.independentmail.com/news/...19601.html

Quote:Top university coaches in an era of broadcast revenue will continue to demand multimillion-dollar contracts, an arrangement that shouldn't bother anyone so long as athletics departments continue to pay their own bills.

That was the message Tuesday as three top members of the Clemson University athletics department visited the February meeting of the Clemson faculty senate. They came by faculty invitation to answer questions about the interplay of money, sports and education at the school.

Katie Hill, chief financial officer for Clemson athletics, said sports at the university make ends meet without state or education funding.

"Generally, we subscribe to the philosophy of we eat what we kill," Hill said.

Revenue, she said, comes through ticket sales, IPTAY donations, broadcast revenues and the occasional corporate sponsorship. Athletics also collects about $1.6 million in student activity fees from the university's 15,500 undergraduates ­? about 2.6 percent of the department's $61 million annual budget.

Students get the equivalent of a season pass to all games under the arrangement. The $103 fee, Hill said, is the lowest in the Atlantic Coast Conference. Virginia charges $657 and raises $13 million from its student activity fee.

Quote:The department also pays the university a 6 percent fee based on the amount of revenue it earns in any given year.

"Are you saying the athletic department is fully paying it's entire expenses, including salaries, and the university is not contributing?" asked chemistry professor Dvora Perahia.

"We are part of the university," Hill said. "We are what is called an auxiliary enterprise, which by definition produces its own revenue and pays its expenses."

Hill said reports on how self-sustaining athletics departments are will vary depending on accounting definitions. Clemson, for instance, grants in-state tuition to athletes so that the scholarship dollars stretch further ? a savings of about $2.5 million to the athletics department. This and the student fee, though it provides tickets to students, are considered subsidies in some reports.

Still, Hill said, Clemson athletics pays the salaries of every staff member and coach, covers all its buildings' utilities, pays for all team travel, and raises all the money for $8 million in athletics scholarships.

There haven't been many complaints at Clemson since that meeting.
03-19-2018 08:27 AM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #48
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
There is more chance a 16 seed beats a 1 seed than EMU drops sports. Or even divisions.
03-19-2018 09:33 AM
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Post: #49
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-16-2018 01:27 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 01:05 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  So if EMU drops football, does the MAC add a FB-only affiliate? I hear UMass is looking for a conference....

Faculty are kicking up a dust at UMass too over their massive deficits in their athletic department. But sure, they could do that.

Quite frankly, if I'm the MAC, I'd consider asking ODU to join if there's an opening.

With all the boohoo-ing that ODU fans are doing about travel costs in CUSA, I doubt they'd be in a hurry to join a conference that they would be an outlier from.
03-19-2018 09:45 AM
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Post: #50
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-19-2018 08:27 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  They even protest at the big name schools. Until you shut them up with facts.

.....

There haven't been many complaints at Clemson since that meeting.

You seem to be a little harsh here. I don't see a lot of faculty whining. Looks like some faculty were wondering why football coaches were making millions per year and so the Faculty Senate invited the AD to answer questions at a FS meeting, the AD did, and the faculty were satisfied with the answers. That's constructive dialogue, and the reason the faculty 'shut up' since that 2012 meeting is because their questions were satisfactorily answered.

At Clemson and other big P5 schools, faculty truly has nothing to complain about because the athletic departments are self-sustaining. Not all, e.g., Virginia still soaks its students to the tune of about $700 a year, which is ridiculous. But at many.

But at the G5 schools, faculty complaints are 100% justified, as these schools are running athletics via massive subsidies and transfers.

E.g., the EMU football coach is reportedly paid about $425,000 per year, and for what? To lose a bunch of games and cost the school millions in transfers and subsidies?

That's a total boondoggle situation. 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2018 12:19 PM by quo vadis.)
03-19-2018 09:52 AM
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Post: #51
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-16-2018 03:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 02:53 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  weaaaah weaaah weaaah said the professor. All these faculty members care about is themselves and their programs (which I understand), and they see athletics as an easy target. The most vocal of them grew up hating sports to begin with, so they are completely biased. The vocal ones usually didn't attend the university that they teach at and have no history of attending games or feeling any sort of connection to the athletic department. A lot of them have also had some bad interactions with athletes in their classes that have also swayed their view of things.

I've had discussions in person and via email with a number of anti-sports professors at UMass and they are all a bunch of whiny idiots who simply want more money for their programs and think if they whine about the athletic department budget then maybe the school will give them some extra money to be quiet.

Oh, and they also all refuse to even come to a tailgate or game and try to understand why athletics are so important to a university community.

Isn't UMass one of the worst cases of a bloated athletic budget?

If you consider LESS than 1% of the entire UMass budget to be a bloated athletic budget, than sure. To me when the athletic department budget is LESS than 1% of the entire school budget, I would say that it most certainly isn't bloated.
03-19-2018 10:22 AM
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Post: #52
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-17-2018 04:35 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Can anyone provide a public university that dropped football that is now rolling in the dough- now able to pay their faculty and staff top wages, in the Black in athletics, etc

Post this a couple days ago and nobody has responded. Can anyone name for me a time when a school cut their football program out (or dropped a level) and it ended up being a financial success?
03-19-2018 10:30 AM
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Post: #53
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
I guess you would have to look at BU, Northeastern and Hofstra. All three dropped football, and all three seem to be doing well financially. Not sure any were in any difficulty prior. Also their athletic departments seem to be doing fairly well these days.
03-19-2018 10:55 AM
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Post: #54
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-19-2018 09:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 08:27 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  They even protest at the big name schools. Until you shut them up with facts.

.....

There haven't been many complaints at Clemson since that meeting.

You seem to be a little harsh here. I don't see a lot of faculty whining. Looks like some faculty were wondering why football coaches were making millions per year and so the Faculty Senate invited the AD to answer questions at a FS meeting, the AD did, and the faculty were satisfied with the answers. That's constructive dialogue, and the reason the faculty 'shut up' since that 2012 meeting is because their questions were satisfactorily answered.

At Clemson and other big P5 schools, faculty truly has nothing to complain about because the athletic departments are self-sustaining. Not at all, e.g., Virginia still soaks its students to the tune of about $700 a year, which is ridiculous. But at many.

But at the G5 schools, faculty complaints are 100% justified, as these schools are running athletics via massive subsidies and transfers.

E.g., the EMU football coach is reportedly paid about $425,000 per year, and for what? To lose a bunch of games and cost the school millions in transfers and subsidies?

That's a total boondoggle situation. 07-coffee3

The article painted a far nicer picture than it really was. The Athletic Representatives were called there to be brow-beaten by the faculty for raises given to football coaches while there was a state enacted freeze on raises for state employees paid from state funds during the recession. The weeks leading up to this meeting the faculty had been taking numerous shots at the AD for the raises and for facility improvements that had been going on. I hunt with folks on the Clemson BOT and in high levels at IPTAY and especially the folks on the BOT will tell you that this meeting squelched the complaints to almost non-existence. One of the BOT members told us he had been getting 10-15 emails and phone calls a week from faculty complaining prior to this meeting and immediately after they stopped completely. Since it's been 8 years now and the meeting isn't fresh on their minds he gets a complaint or two a month but he directs them to someone who can pretty much provide the same answer the meeting did and they typically stop.


OT: One of the IPTAY guys I hunt with was in the group that worked with representatives from UMass that came down to study how IPTAY works back around the turn of the century when y'all were first looking at moving to I-A ball and as a result he follows y'all pretty close.
03-19-2018 10:57 AM
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Post: #55
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
EMU FB was most at risk in the 80s and 90s when attendance requirements were real.

Where the program is today...unprecedented security.

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03-19-2018 11:07 AM
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RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-19-2018 10:22 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 03:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 02:53 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  weaaaah weaaah weaaah said the professor. All these faculty members care about is themselves and their programs (which I understand), and they see athletics as an easy target. The most vocal of them grew up hating sports to begin with, so they are completely biased. The vocal ones usually didn't attend the university that they teach at and have no history of attending games or feeling any sort of connection to the athletic department. A lot of them have also had some bad interactions with athletes in their classes that have also swayed their view of things.

I've had discussions in person and via email with a number of anti-sports professors at UMass and they are all a bunch of whiny idiots who simply want more money for their programs and think if they whine about the athletic department budget then maybe the school will give them some extra money to be quiet.

Oh, and they also all refuse to even come to a tailgate or game and try to understand why athletics are so important to a university community.

Isn't UMass one of the worst cases of a bloated athletic budget?

If you consider LESS than 1% of the entire UMass budget to be a bloated athletic budget, than sure. To me when the athletic department budget is LESS than 1% of the entire school budget, I would say that it most certainly isn't bloated.

A one thousand dollar budget is "bloated", if that $1000 shouldn't be spent at all, or the same ROI could be achieved for $500.

The move to FBS has proved to be a big white elephant, their attendance is still FCS-level, at about 12,000 a game, costing UMass students and academics more money with zero to show for it.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2018 12:28 PM by quo vadis.)
03-19-2018 12:26 PM
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Post: #57
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-19-2018 12:26 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-19-2018 10:22 AM)EmeryZach Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 03:08 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-16-2018 02:53 PM)EmeryZach Wrote:  weaaaah weaaah weaaah said the professor. All these faculty members care about is themselves and their programs (which I understand), and they see athletics as an easy target. The most vocal of them grew up hating sports to begin with, so they are completely biased. The vocal ones usually didn't attend the university that they teach at and have no history of attending games or feeling any sort of connection to the athletic department. A lot of them have also had some bad interactions with athletes in their classes that have also swayed their view of things.

I've had discussions in person and via email with a number of anti-sports professors at UMass and they are all a bunch of whiny idiots who simply want more money for their programs and think if they whine about the athletic department budget then maybe the school will give them some extra money to be quiet.

Oh, and they also all refuse to even come to a tailgate or game and try to understand why athletics are so important to a university community.

Isn't UMass one of the worst cases of a bloated athletic budget?

If you consider LESS than 1% of the entire UMass budget to be a bloated athletic budget, than sure. To me when the athletic department budget is LESS than 1% of the entire school budget, I would say that it most certainly isn't bloated.

A one thousand dollar budget is "bloated", if that $1000 shouldn't be spent at all, or the same ROI could be achieved for $500.

The move to FBS has proved to be a big white elephant, their attendance is still FCS-level, at about 12,000 a game, costing UMass students and academics more money with zero to show for it.

I understand how it looks to people who are on the outside and don't know the full positive effects of having FBS football has had on the athletic department, most of which can't be calculated for easy understanding. Luckily our administration understands it and is fully supportive of FBS football.

I've already had this argument with too many people, I'm not going to bother going through all my points over and over again.
03-19-2018 03:02 PM
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Post: #58
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
UMass transitioned up to FBS without a 100 million dollar capital improvement.

They've had to do it the hard way, raising money one facility at time.

Over time however they will close the facility gap. Similar to the Ohio situation where they entered FBS play in the 80's with a 14k seater and zero facilities. Now we are average G5 but its taken 30 years to get there.
03-19-2018 03:26 PM
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Post: #59
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-19-2018 10:55 AM)bostonspider Wrote:  I guess you would have to look at BU, Northeastern and Hofstra. All three dropped football, and all three seem to be doing well financially. Not sure any were in any difficulty prior. Also their athletic departments seem to be doing fairly well these days.

Let me rephrase, I meant public universities.
03-19-2018 03:32 PM
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Post: #60
RE: EMU sports front and center is faculty protest over cuts and layoffs
(03-19-2018 10:57 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  The article painted a far nicer picture than it really was. The Athletic Representatives were called there to be brow-beaten by the faculty for raises given to football coaches while there was a state enacted freeze on raises for state employees paid from state funds during the recession.

Yeah, working in higher ed, that's what those meetings with faculty usually are. It's them versus their target. Clemson athletics pretty much shut that up, but it's not like the faculty get their hands slapped for being so nasty and unprofessional leading up to it. Or for spreading false claims.

You don't want to be called in to speak with faculty or staff senates. You're going to become a punching bag. And, yikes, there are some f'n crazy people in these places.
03-20-2018 08:44 AM
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