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TU4ever Offline
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Haith
So the talk on a contract extension has brought up evaluating Haith.

Invisible got the conference board opinion on it but I figured a more in-depth and full evaluation could be done in here.

I feel like Haith has performed ok, maybe slightly low. Nothing major sticks out good or positive. It's just kind of meh.

His early season wtf losses have definitely hurt so that's a negative, especially this season. Again though he last two years have been a lot of juggling with new players. I truly felt that it would take three years to replace all the seniors and keep the classes from being overloaded. I feel really comfortable with the players we have and there is enough talent for us to be dancing, making for a small positive.

I expect the NCAA next year and for us to start being an at large quality team.

What do other Tulsa fans think of his job performance? What are their expectations for next year? Immediate future?

I am thankful he seems to be running a clean program and his PR side has been very good.
03-13-2018 11:28 AM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Haith
I support whatever you choose, TU4ever
03-13-2018 07:11 PM
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Hurricane Drummer Offline
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RE: Haith
With how this season ended I felt a little disappointed. Like we underachieved. But thinking back to the preseason, I was expecting us to be at or a little above .500 on the season, and we definitely exceeded that.

So in the grand scheme of things we're probably right on track.

If we take another solid step forward next season we should be in the running for an at-large as a bubble team.
03-13-2018 09:15 PM
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TU4ever Offline
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RE: Haith
(03-13-2018 07:11 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  I support whatever you choose, TU4ever

You're my rock 03-cloud9
03-13-2018 09:24 PM
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TU4ever Offline
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RE: Haith
(03-13-2018 09:15 PM)Hurricane Drummer Wrote:  With how this season ended I felt a little disappointed. Like we underachieved. But thinking back to the preseason, I was expecting us to be at or a little above .500 on the season, and we definitely exceeded that.

So in the grand scheme of things we're probably right on track.

If we take another solid step forward next season we should be in the running for an at-large as a bubble team.

I have some of the same feelings. I was really hoping we could get some post season play to reward the seniors and keep developing the other players. Especially Scott and Jeffries who I think have just started to get the groove back. Which is one reason why I like that the juco's coming in now give us 3 years.

Honestly though other than that I feel like it was a solid but not great year. I see progress through out his time here. The first two weren't bad considering he was trying to work someone else's players into his style but I wish they had done a little more. Since then though I've seen good progress. Next year has to be an NCAA one or it will probably be time to try and find someone else to take us to the next step.

Honestly though I like our chances next year, the team looked strong coming down the stretch. I hope joiner can heal up as he was a bright spot. Jackson should improve be nice to see his level go up like korita did.

I'm being patient, I think maybe we have found the right coach, now we just need him to prove it on the court. Seems to take care of the off the court stuff well. Graduates kids, keeps them out of trouble. Good attitude, personable, good PR type.
03-13-2018 09:35 PM
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Nevadanatural Offline
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RE: Haith
I’m not saying Haith is the savior of TU and our once and future coach but we gave 7 years to a guy that never sniffed the tourney. If you look at Haith’s record so far at TU it’s not as bad as an outsider would think looking at posts from TU fans.

2015 - 23-11 (14-4) 2nd place NIT second round
2016 - 20-12 (12-6) 5th place NCAA first four
2017 - 15-17 (8-10) 7th place
2018 - 19-12 (12-6) 4th place

We should have made the tourney in 2015 but they hopped us to take Cincy. 2016 may have been a makeup call. 2018 was eerily similar to 2016, if we had made 4 of the 13 free throws we missed against Memphis our record would have been identical. The difference was a lot of the early losses proclaimed “bad” losses in 2016 turned out to be against tourney reams from one bid conferences. This year I think we would have been in at 23-8 if we had beaten Lamar, Iowa State, OSU, and Temple in Philly. All of those were winnable so we were oh so close and that’s in a year when at least half of the “fans” on the Rivals board were trying to decide if we were going to be 15-16 or 14-17. In my mind Magnay leaving was the X-factor that worked against us. He was our starting center for most of the season before nagging injuries put Igbanu to the front. Our losing him was at least equivalent to UCF losing Dawkins.

Also, before folks start saying he won with Manning’s players we need to remember that Danny bailed in part because he didn’t think he could win in the American with those players (IMHO) and his tourney appearance required a miracle run at the end of the season against a much weaker CUSA.

I will always support whoever the basketball coach at TU is and won’t call for their firing as that isn’t my job. I have no idea how next year will turn out but we have a nice core of players with Taplin, Joiner, Scott, Jeffries, and Igbanu. If Horne can fill in for Etou and player like Korita and Artison can continue to improve like they did from 2017 to 2918 we could make another tourney run, especially if Hewitt can provide that rim protector and rebounder we need.
03-14-2018 01:28 AM
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TulsaEye Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Haith
Ordinarily I am not someone who expresses extreme views especially about coaches. If anything I will bend over backwards to give someone a break. Four years is the beginning of being long enough to see the direction a program is taking. Five to six years is an even better sampling. You have to look at the direction a program is taking over that time. What are you seeing. Is the trend up, down, or no change. It does make a difference. Two of those trends are bad only one is good.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2018 04:09 PM by TulsaEye.)
03-14-2018 12:21 PM
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TU4ever Offline
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RE: Haith
I agree Eye and with Nevada as well.

I think invisible brought up a good point on the conference about having another class becoming loaded but I could see either Joiner or Jackson redshirting next year. I could honestly see both depending on our guard depth and Joiner's injury.

Over all the program is going in a positive improving direction to me. Maybe others don't, but I really started evaluating Haith last year. Before that his hands were tied as far as building his program. It was a rough year with some positives. This year felt positive with some rough spots. So I expect next year to be a good season with no rough spots. I feel like that will be the year to really tell what kind of a program Haith is building.

Right now I just feel unsure and would prefer to not give other schools any other rocks to throw at us. I certainly don't want a Memphis situation with the circus they have going on in public perception or ended up stuck like UConn was with Ollie. I expect regular NCAA appearences, wins, and occasionally deep runs. Haith seems balanced on the tipping point of both the Memphis and UConn situation and isn't quite meeting program expectations although he seems to be building. It seems everyone agrees he should have next year to try and prove he is there. If he needs an extension to have his best chance to succeed then we need to work it out, we just need to make sure the university isn't hand cuffed to him if he goes down. That seems very doable if the extension terms are carefully crafted.

Thanks for posting Nevada I always enjoy your insights. Eye as always a true fan thick and thin.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2018 01:09 PM by TU4ever.)
03-14-2018 01:08 PM
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Hurricane Drummer Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Haith
(03-14-2018 01:08 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  I agree Eye and with Nevada as well.

I think invisible brought up a good point on the conference about having another class becoming loaded but I could see either Joiner or Jackson redshirting next year. I could honestly see both depending on our guard depth and Joiner's injury.

Over all the program is going in a positive improving direction to me. Maybe others don't, but I really started evaluating Haith last year. Before that his hands were tied as far as building his program. It was a rough year with some positives. This year felt positive with some rough spots. So I expect next year to be a good season with no rough spots. I feel like that will be the year to really tell what kind of a program Haith is building.

Right now I just feel unsure and would prefer to not give other schools any other rocks to throw at us. I certainly don't want a Memphis situation with the circus they have going on in public perception or ended up stuck like UConn was with Ollie. I expect regular NCAA appearences, wins, and occasionally deep runs. Haith seems balanced on the tipping point of both the Memphis and UConn situation and isn't quite meeting program expectations although he seems to be building. It seems everyone agrees he should have next year to try and prove he is there. If he needs an extension to have his best chance to succeed then we need to work it out, we just need to make sure the university isn't hand cuffed to him if he goes down. That seems very doable if the extension terms are carefully crafted.

Thanks for posting Nevada I always enjoy your insights. Eye as always a true fan thick and thin.

Good comments by all.

I never thought about them being able to redshirt this next season. It may help if Jackson did. I think Joiner needs to be in there if possible, backing up Taplin. That way he'll be ready for the starting role by his junior year.

Would it be possible for any of the 3 incoming JUCO's to redshirt next season? One is listed as a point guard. It may really be good for him to redshirt. Unless he's much better than Joiner.
03-14-2018 03:15 PM
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TulsaEye Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Haith
MBB has a decent core group of players but still lack that break through player. The program will continue to trend as it is now until that player or players is recruited. I am not sure Haith can achieve that necessary goal. The next year will really determine the direction this program is headed.
If Tulsa is only able to get to the NIT and be far away from the Dance, well the necessary actions should be obvious to most.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2018 04:21 PM by TulsaEye.)
03-14-2018 04:18 PM
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Post: #11
RE: Haith
None of the new guys coming in so far is able to redshirt. They have all used their redshirt season, that’s why they will all have three years remaining. Everyone else except Horne and Scott have a redshirt season available.
03-14-2018 05:07 PM
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Hurricane Drummer Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Haith
(03-14-2018 05:07 PM)Nevadanatural Wrote:  None of the new guys coming in so far is able to redshirt. They have all used their redshirt season, that’s why they will all have three years remaining. Everyone else except Horne and Scott have a redshirt season available.

Ok, gotcha. That's unfortunate.
03-14-2018 05:35 PM
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RE: Haith
(03-14-2018 05:35 PM)Hurricane Drummer Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 05:07 PM)Nevadanatural Wrote:  None of the new guys coming in so far is able to redshirt. They have all used their redshirt season, that’s why they will all have three years remaining. Everyone else except Horne and Scott have a redshirt season available.

Ok, gotcha. That's unfortunate.

Depending on Joiner's injury a red shirt may be best for him. With the incoming point guard we should have it covered. I think it's almost assured that Jackson will take one next year he showed promise but still needs some work and to adjust on offense. Especially with no other incoming freshman next year. Unfortunately there is also always injuries that crop up and over the next 3 years the likelyhood of a medical redshirt is high.

I agree with Eye though, if we're fighting to be in the nit next year it will be time to move on. We have to be a surprise snub to the dance for anything less than an NCAA next year really being acceptable (barring crazy injuries).
03-14-2018 07:20 PM
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Hurricane Drummer Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Haith
(03-14-2018 07:20 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 05:35 PM)Hurricane Drummer Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 05:07 PM)Nevadanatural Wrote:  None of the new guys coming in so far is able to redshirt. They have all used their redshirt season, that’s why they will all have three years remaining. Everyone else except Horne and Scott have a redshirt season available.

Ok, gotcha. That's unfortunate.

Depending on Joiner's injury a red shirt may be best for him. With the incoming point guard we should have it covered. I think it's almost assured that Jackson will take one next year he showed promise but still needs some work and to adjust on offense. Especially with no other incoming freshman next year. Unfortunately there is also always injuries that crop up and over the next 3 years the likelyhood of a medical redshirt is high.

I agree with Eye though, if we're fighting to be in the nit next year it will be time to move on. We have to be a surprise snub to the dance for anything less than an NCAA next year really being acceptable (barring crazy injuries).

That gives me a little more hope for keeping the classes evened out. Like everyone else, I don't like the thought of having 6 in one class. Especially after what we went through the last few years.
03-15-2018 08:03 AM
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Post: #15
RE: Haith
(03-14-2018 01:08 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  I agree Eye and with Nevada as well.

I think invisible brought up a good point on the conference about having another class becoming loaded but I could see either Joiner or Jackson redshirting next year. I could honestly see both depending on our guard depth and Joiner's injury.

Over all the program is going in a positive improving direction to me. Maybe others don't, but I really started evaluating Haith last year. Before that his hands were tied as far as building his program. It was a rough year with some positives. This year felt positive with some rough spots. So I expect next year to be a good season with no rough spots. I feel like that will be the year to really tell what kind of a program Haith is building.

Right now I just feel unsure and would prefer to not give other schools any other rocks to throw at us. I certainly don't want a Memphis situation with the circus they have going on in public perception or ended up stuck like UConn was with Ollie. I expect regular NCAA appearences, wins, and occasionally deep runs. Haith seems balanced on the tipping point of both the Memphis and UConn situation and isn't quite meeting program expectations although he seems to be building. It seems everyone agrees he should have next year to try and prove he is there. If he needs an extension to have his best chance to succeed then we need to work it out, we just need to make sure the university isn't hand cuffed to him if he goes down. That seems very doable if the extension terms are carefully crafted.

Thanks for posting Nevada I always enjoy your insights. Eye as always a true fan thick and thin.
I doubt anybody gets a redshirt. The only redshirt I remember in Haith's tenure was Edogi in his sophomore year, which was a dumb move to make. Seeing as how he hasn't pushed a redshirt yet with a freshman, and where the redshirt left him with Edogi,(grad transfer) I'll believe it when I see it. The situation was made worse when Magnay left, but I think Edogi will be on his mind when he thinks about another sophomore redshirt for instance with Jackson. I think he will deal with the large class through attrition, whether that be his or the players decision. I see one to two players leaving out of that class over the next two years. I have a feeling it will be a class of 5 or 6 by the time they are seniors.
04-17-2018 12:53 PM
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Post: #16
RE: Haith
(04-17-2018 12:53 PM)Gmoney4WW Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 01:08 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  I agree Eye and with Nevada as well.

I think invisible brought up a good point on the conference about having another class becoming loaded but I could see either Joiner or Jackson redshirting next year. I could honestly see both depending on our guard depth and Joiner's injury.

Over all the program is going in a positive improving direction to me. Maybe others don't, but I really started evaluating Haith last year. Before that his hands were tied as far as building his program. It was a rough year with some positives. This year felt positive with some rough spots. So I expect next year to be a good season with no rough spots. I feel like that will be the year to really tell what kind of a program Haith is building.

Right now I just feel unsure and would prefer to not give other schools any other rocks to throw at us. I certainly don't want a Memphis situation with the circus they have going on in public perception or ended up stuck like UConn was with Ollie. I expect regular NCAA appearences, wins, and occasionally deep runs. Haith seems balanced on the tipping point of both the Memphis and UConn situation and isn't quite meeting program expectations although he seems to be building. It seems everyone agrees he should have next year to try and prove he is there. If he needs an extension to have his best chance to succeed then we need to work it out, we just need to make sure the university isn't hand cuffed to him if he goes down. That seems very doable if the extension terms are carefully crafted.

Thanks for posting Nevada I always enjoy your insights. Eye as always a true fan thick and thin.
I doubt anybody gets a redshirt. The only redshirt I remember in Haith's tenure was Edogi in his sophomore year, which was a dumb move to make. Seeing as how he hasn't pushed a redshirt yet with a freshman, and where the redshirt left him with Edogi,(grad transfer) I'll believe it when I see it. The situation was made worse when Magnay left, but I think Edogi will be on his mind when he thinks about another sophomore redshirt for instance with Jackson. I think he will deal with the large class through attrition, whether that be his or the players decision. I see one to two players leaving out of that class over the next two years. I have a feeling it will be a class of 5 or 6 by the time they are seniors.

Injuries may affect this as well. 1 injury redshirt, 1 transfer and this class is completely changed. I do think he is feeling the pressure to win next season.
04-18-2018 03:35 PM
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Post: #17
RE: Haith
(04-18-2018 03:35 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 12:53 PM)Gmoney4WW Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 01:08 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  I agree Eye and with Nevada as well.

I think invisible brought up a good point on the conference about having another class becoming loaded but I could see either Joiner or Jackson redshirting next year. I could honestly see both depending on our guard depth and Joiner's injury.

Over all the program is going in a positive improving direction to me. Maybe others don't, but I really started evaluating Haith last year. Before that his hands were tied as far as building his program. It was a rough year with some positives. This year felt positive with some rough spots. So I expect next year to be a good season with no rough spots. I feel like that will be the year to really tell what kind of a program Haith is building.

Right now I just feel unsure and would prefer to not give other schools any other rocks to throw at us. I certainly don't want a Memphis situation with the circus they have going on in public perception or ended up stuck like UConn was with Ollie. I expect regular NCAA appearences, wins, and occasionally deep runs. Haith seems balanced on the tipping point of both the Memphis and UConn situation and isn't quite meeting program expectations although he seems to be building. It seems everyone agrees he should have next year to try and prove he is there. If he needs an extension to have his best chance to succeed then we need to work it out, we just need to make sure the university isn't hand cuffed to him if he goes down. That seems very doable if the extension terms are carefully crafted.

Thanks for posting Nevada I always enjoy your insights. Eye as always a true fan thick and thin.
I doubt anybody gets a redshirt. The only redshirt I remember in Haith's tenure was Edogi in his sophomore year, which was a dumb move to make. Seeing as how he hasn't pushed a redshirt yet with a freshman, and where the redshirt left him with Edogi,(grad transfer) I'll believe it when I see it. The situation was made worse when Magnay left, but I think Edogi will be on his mind when he thinks about another sophomore redshirt for instance with Jackson. I think he will deal with the large class through attrition, whether that be his or the players decision. I see one to two players leaving out of that class over the next two years. I have a feeling it will be a class of 5 or 6 by the time they are seniors.

Injuries may affect this as well. 1 injury redshirt, 1 transfer and this class is completely changed. I do think he is feeling the pressure to win next season.
I imagine since his attempt to get an extension failed, and because his contract expires after 2019, he feels a lot of pressure to perform in 2018 & 2019. Whether he gets Thompson will play huge too, especially after failing with the Boone twins. He is looking at a High Point type of job if he doesn't get a new contract. He might have made a decision or two based on evening out the classes before this year, not anymore. The pressure is on. I'm hoping one or two of the new players/Horne turn out to be stars and he succeeds. I imagine he is too.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2018 06:20 PM by Gmoney4WW.)
04-18-2018 06:18 PM
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TulsaEye Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Haith
(04-18-2018 06:18 PM)Gmoney4WW Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 03:35 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 12:53 PM)Gmoney4WW Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 01:08 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  I agree Eye and with Nevada as well.

I think invisible brought up a good point on the conference about having another class becoming loaded but I could see either Joiner or Jackson redshirting next year. I could honestly see both depending on our guard depth and Joiner's injury.

Over all the program is going in a positive improving direction to me. Maybe others don't, but I really started evaluating Haith last year. Before that his hands were tied as far as building his program. It was a rough year with some positives. This year felt positive with some rough spots. So I expect next year to be a good season with no rough spots. I feel like that will be the year to really tell what kind of a program Haith is building.

Right now I just feel unsure and would prefer to not give other schools any other rocks to throw at us. I certainly don't want a Memphis situation with the circus they have going on in public perception or ended up stuck like UConn was with Ollie. I expect regular NCAA appearences, wins, and occasionally deep runs. Haith seems balanced on the tipping point of both the Memphis and UConn situation and isn't quite meeting program expectations although he seems to be building. It seems everyone agrees he should have next year to try and prove he is there. If he needs an extension to have his best chance to succeed then we need to work it out, we just need to make sure the university isn't hand cuffed to him if he goes down. That seems very doable if the extension terms are carefully crafted.

Thanks for posting Nevada I always enjoy your insights. Eye as always a true fan thick and thin.
I doubt anybody gets a redshirt. The only redshirt I remember in Haith's tenure was Edogi in his sophomore year, which was a dumb move to make. Seeing as how he hasn't pushed a redshirt yet with a freshman, and where the redshirt left him with Edogi,(grad transfer) I'll believe it when I see it. The situation was made worse when Magnay left, but I think Edogi will be on his mind when he thinks about another sophomore redshirt for instance with Jackson. I think he will deal with the large class through attrition, whether that be his or the players decision. I see one to two players leaving out of that class over the next two years. I have a feeling it will be a class of 5 or 6 by the time they are seniors.

Injuries may affect this as well. 1 injury redshirt, 1 transfer and this class is completely changed. I do think he is feeling the pressure to win next season.
I imagine since his attempt to get an extension failed, and because his contract expires after 2019, he feels a lot of pressure to perform in 2018 & 2019. Whether he gets Thompson will play huge too, especially after failing with the Boone twins. He is looking at a High Point type of job if he doesn't get a new contract. He might have made a decision or two based on evening out the classes before this year, not anymore. The pressure is on. I'm hoping one or two of the new players/Horne turn out to be stars and he succeeds. I imagine he is too.

This was a very underachieving season for Haith. Decrease the buyout a lot. One year extension only. This is not hard to figure out but some AD's can make it really hard.
04-19-2018 05:44 AM
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Post: #19
RE: Haith
(04-19-2018 05:44 AM)TulsaEye Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 06:18 PM)Gmoney4WW Wrote:  
(04-18-2018 03:35 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  
(04-17-2018 12:53 PM)Gmoney4WW Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 01:08 PM)TU4ever Wrote:  I agree Eye and with Nevada as well.

I think invisible brought up a good point on the conference about having another class becoming loaded but I could see either Joiner or Jackson redshirting next year. I could honestly see both depending on our guard depth and Joiner's injury.

Over all the program is going in a positive improving direction to me. Maybe others don't, but I really started evaluating Haith last year. Before that his hands were tied as far as building his program. It was a rough year with some positives. This year felt positive with some rough spots. So I expect next year to be a good season with no rough spots. I feel like that will be the year to really tell what kind of a program Haith is building.

Right now I just feel unsure and would prefer to not give other schools any other rocks to throw at us. I certainly don't want a Memphis situation with the circus they have going on in public perception or ended up stuck like UConn was with Ollie. I expect regular NCAA appearences, wins, and occasionally deep runs. Haith seems balanced on the tipping point of both the Memphis and UConn situation and isn't quite meeting program expectations although he seems to be building. It seems everyone agrees he should have next year to try and prove he is there. If he needs an extension to have his best chance to succeed then we need to work it out, we just need to make sure the university isn't hand cuffed to him if he goes down. That seems very doable if the extension terms are carefully crafted.

Thanks for posting Nevada I always enjoy your insights. Eye as always a true fan thick and thin.
I doubt anybody gets a redshirt. The only redshirt I remember in Haith's tenure was Edogi in his sophomore year, which was a dumb move to make. Seeing as how he hasn't pushed a redshirt yet with a freshman, and where the redshirt left him with Edogi,(grad transfer) I'll believe it when I see it. The situation was made worse when Magnay left, but I think Edogi will be on his mind when he thinks about another sophomore redshirt for instance with Jackson. I think he will deal with the large class through attrition, whether that be his or the players decision. I see one to two players leaving out of that class over the next two years. I have a feeling it will be a class of 5 or 6 by the time they are seniors.

Injuries may affect this as well. 1 injury redshirt, 1 transfer and this class is completely changed. I do think he is feeling the pressure to win next season.
I imagine since his attempt to get an extension failed, and because his contract expires after 2019, he feels a lot of pressure to perform in 2018 & 2019. Whether he gets Thompson will play huge too, especially after failing with the Boone twins. He is looking at a High Point type of job if he doesn't get a new contract. He might have made a decision or two based on evening out the classes before this year, not anymore. The pressure is on. I'm hoping one or two of the new players/Horne turn out to be stars and he succeeds. I imagine he is too.

This was a very underachieving season for Haith. Decrease the buyout a lot. One year extension only. This is not hard to figure out but some AD's can make it really hard.
Yep, open that escape hatch for him.

Cept he would wait till that last year to use it, and we might not want him for one more year after we see what happens in '18 and '19.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2018 03:03 PM by Gmoney4WW.)
04-19-2018 03:03 PM
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TU4ever Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Haith
It's a tough place all the way around, it's why this coming season is make or break. I would say it was an underachieving year from what we expected, but not badly. If I had told you Magnay would go down with an injury before season starts and we'd finish 4th in conference back in late August we would have all been ok with it. With Magnay we would have been an nit maybe bubble team because of the two games maybe three he would have helped with.

Getting the Boone twins would have bought him more time, but this was probably the year that would decide his success or failure at TU since he was hired. It'll be 3 years since the senior heavy class left. They're all his players and he's had time to coach it up. This is his team, he needs to win.

I really am nervous with our current AD though, he doesn't inspire confidence in me and I feel like we are precariously close to a down turn if things go bad and aren't handled well.
04-19-2018 05:08 PM
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