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(03-12-2018 01:45 PM)Nacho Wrote:  Sad. Jones had a lot of potential with WMU. He was one of my favorite players on the squad. Would be nice to get some incoming transfers but I don't see the appeal of coming to WMU any more. Something needs to be done.

Something has needed to be done for quite some time now and still we see no change, I'm afraid it's gonna take a 20 loss season for action to be taken.

(03-12-2018 02:29 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:01 PM)Wheres_Waldo? Wrote:  So what needs to be done to make basketball more of a priority? Has KB and/or Hawk created a map of what it would take?

By priority I mean put as much effort into it as we do with hockey and football. How about a new hockey/basketball arena and new practice facilities. There's gotta be some people out there somewhere that are willing to shell out for this, not to mention what they could get from fundraising. I think that would go a long way for WMU athletics.

There is no doubt new facilities would be a huge boost to both hoops and hockey. It’s pretty obvious the school can’t afford that on their own though, so they need to employ the right type of people to go fund raise. There are numerous people with deep pockets all over Kalamazoo and the region

(03-12-2018 01:58 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:40 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:15 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  Two ways to look at this. When his head was right I think Reggie was the second best player on the team this season behind Wilder. Unfortunately his head wasn't right this entire season. Any time he was in the game all he wanted to do was score which led to a lot of bad shots, a lot of bad misses and a lot of time in Coach Hawkins doghouse. He pretty much stopped playing defense the entire conference season.

I loved Jones as a freshman and thought he would be the next star at WMU but he was a different player this season and not in a good way. And I haven't even mentioned all the problems he had with coaches and teammates.

It's unfortunate to see a player with that amount of talent leave but at this point I think for the Broncos this was addition by subtraction.

I don't doubt that there was some friction with the coaching staff. Maybe even teammates, but I doubt this is addition by subtraction. This is just subtraction.

WMU basketball is not going to be better with Jones off the team. They might get along better when they lose 20 games next year, but I would be willing to bet that isn't what any of us are after.

Is WMU a better team right now without Jones, probably not but in the long run I think they may be better off without him. The team this season had a ton of talent but what they had very little of was team chemistry and Reggie was a huge reason for that. I wasn't the only one that grew tired of watching games where he was 2-10 from the field with 4 turnovers because he was trying to force stuff that wasn't there. I think his teammates were tired of it as well.

I don't disagree with that assessment. But when you're falling behind in talent, taking arguably the most talented guy off the roster definitely isn't going to help. Not necessarily in the long run either. If we look at this roster make up. We are in serious trouble starting next year. When Moore, Dugan, and Davis go....what's left. With the exception of Michael Flowers, who I am not sure is a starting PG on a good team, the 2017 class looks like a swing and miss. What do we have for 18?

Hawk's lucky he has 2 years left on his deal and the school isn't in a spot to eat that money.

IndyStar article on transfers

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/co...686784001/

So Reggie was a headcase? Part of the recruiting evaluation is getting into the school and talking to teachers, coaches, principals, teammates, the school secretary, the lunch lady. Reggie was set to go to New Orleans, then switched to us. Did anyone find out why?

Maybe all this was done, and we decided to take the chance. I have no idea. I’m not even ready to write off next season, because I’ve WMU teams where losing talent didn’t seem to hurt. But something about this past season tells me we’ve hit a road block. One bad apple, if that were the case, should not have derailed this team.

(03-12-2018 02:42 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:58 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:40 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:15 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  Two ways to look at this. When his head was right I think Reggie was the second best player on the team this season behind Wilder. Unfortunately his head wasn't right this entire season. Any time he was in the game all he wanted to do was score which led to a lot of bad shots, a lot of bad misses and a lot of time in Coach Hawkins doghouse. He pretty much stopped playing defense the entire conference season.

I loved Jones as a freshman and thought he would be the next star at WMU but he was a different player this season and not in a good way. And I haven't even mentioned all the problems he had with coaches and teammates.

It's unfortunate to see a player with that amount of talent leave but at this point I think for the Broncos this was addition by subtraction.

I don't doubt that there was some friction with the coaching staff. Maybe even teammates, but I doubt this is addition by subtraction. This is just subtraction.

WMU basketball is not going to be better with Jones off the team. They might get along better when they lose 20 games next year, but I would be willing to bet that isn't what any of us are after.

Is WMU a better team right now without Jones, probably not but in the long run I think they may be better off without him. The team this season had a ton of talent but what they had very little of was team chemistry and Reggie was a huge reason for that. I wasn't the only one that grew tired of watching games where he was 2-10 from the field with 4 turnovers because he was trying to force stuff that wasn't there. I think his teammates were tired of it as well.

I don't disagree with that assessment. But when you're falling behind in talent, taking arguably the most talented guy off the roster definitely isn't going to help. Not necessarily in the long run either. If we look at this roster make up. We are in serious trouble starting next year. When Moore, Dugan, and Davis go....what's left. With the exception of Michael Flowers, who I am not sure is a starting PG on a good team, the 2017 class looks like a swing and miss. What do we have for 18?

Hawk's lucky he has 2 years left on his deal and the school isn't in a spot to eat that money.

When was the last time we didn’t sign a recruit in the early signing period?

(03-12-2018 02:29 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:01 PM)Wheres_Waldo? Wrote:  So what needs to be done to make basketball more of a priority? Has KB and/or Hawk created a map of what it would take?

By priority I mean put as much effort into it as we do with hockey and football. How about a new hockey/basketball arena and new practice facilities. There's gotta be some people out there somewhere that are willing to shell out for this, not to mention what they could get from fundraising. I think that would go a long way for WMU athletics.

Again though, and unfortunately I am beating a dead Bronco when I say this, you are right, these are things we need. Is Hawk capable of it though? I think he's shown he's not. Like it or not. Fair or not. Hawkins as the leader of the program has to take the majority of the responsibility in drumming up interest and money, and that means shaking hands of the donors and getting them to believe he has a vision. That means finding ways to get students involved. Tough to do when you've been here as long as he has.

Talk to someone in marketing at the business college. Maybe their could be a student run marketing program to help educate and hopefully get more students involved.

All I know is that they aren't a good basketball team, but almost worse than that, they aren't even a fun watch.

(03-12-2018 02:42 PM)Flashboski Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 02:29 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:01 PM)Wheres_Waldo? Wrote:  So what needs to be done to make basketball more of a priority? Has KB and/or Hawk created a map of what it would take?

By priority I mean put as much effort into it as we do with hockey and football. How about a new hockey/basketball arena and new practice facilities. There's gotta be some people out there somewhere that are willing to shell out for this, not to mention what they could get from fundraising. I think that would go a long way for WMU athletics.

There is no doubt new facilities would be a huge boost to both hoops and hockey. It’s pretty obvious the school can’t afford that on their own though, so they need to employ the right type of people to go fund raise. There are numerous people with deep pockets all over Kalamazoo and the region

So is this ever going to happen? I hear a lot of "we need this and we need that to be successful" but nobody ever seems to be going out and pushing for it.

This looks like Matt Stainbrook type transfer to me.

(03-12-2018 02:52 PM)Stampede your face!! Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 02:29 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 01:01 PM)Wheres_Waldo? Wrote:  So what needs to be done to make basketball more of a priority? Has KB and/or Hawk created a map of what it would take?

By priority I mean put as much effort into it as we do with hockey and football. How about a new hockey/basketball arena and new practice facilities. There's gotta be some people out there somewhere that are willing to shell out for this, not to mention what they could get from fundraising. I think that would go a long way for WMU athletics.

Again though, and unfortunately I am beating a dead Bronco when I say this, you are right, these are things we need. Is Hawk capable of it though? I think he's shown he's not. Like it or not. Fair or not. Hawkins as the leader of the program has to take the majority of the responsibility in drumming up interest and money, and that means shaking hands of the donors and getting them to believe he has a vision. That means finding ways to get students involved. Tough to do when you've been here as long as he has.

Talk to someone in marketing at the business college. Maybe their could be a student run marketing program to help educate and hopefully get more students involved.

All I know is that they aren't a good basketball team, but almost worse than that, they aren't even a fun watch.

Agreed, that's why I think it's time for a change, need somebody to come in that is young and energetic and can convince those donors to shell out for new toys. You know kinda like Fleck did, regardless of how you feel about the Fleck situation he did do a whole lot for WMU football, and I think were seeing the dividends of that with this year's recruiting class.

We're starting to look an awful lot like the tail end of the Bob Donewald program-recruiting JCers to bring in a quick fix for a talent-challenged program. Which begs the question, if these replacement players have so much talent why did they go to the JC's in the first place?

Stain didn't leave, he got booted. Attitude problem.

LL and JHJr were never in it for the long haul. They had talent, not sure they ever would have fit into Hawks programs. Darius Paul wasn't mature enough to play college basketball.

Just speculation, but Hawks needs to get back to building the program with character players who value playing at Western and want to get a degree there. If they're just here to play basketball let them go. We're never going to get superstars in the MAC anyway, so bring in folks who're glad to get the invitation to play at Western and will stick around. They're not good to us if they just stick around a season and then bolt to another program.

Obviously you didnt live in Kzoo during the Donewald years because this is not the slightest even remotely the same. Those were just ugly ugly times.

Jones joins a long list

https://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/Melvin%20Morgan

(03-12-2018 01:09 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  There are something like two transfers per team on average now. Not a Hawkins thing. That said, I imagine most are bench players looking for minutes. We have lost an awful lot of key contributors.

Hawk was a pioneer though; ahead of his time.

Talented young kid who didn't play well within the system (this year) and was in and out of "doghouse". Not a surprise.

Every coach has their perspective. Slight changes in style and or execution are always needed to counter in competition and or accommodate great talent. When let to go buck wild Reggie didnt perform well.

It hurts to lose a physical talent like Reggie but 5 guys and 1 ball requires a greater emphasis on meshing and synergy.

Recruiting is a roll of the dice.

I don't buy that his transfer indicated anything systemically "wrong". He's a player given many chances to perform and lead within the system provided and he didn't produce. More so his sitting out nearly entire games (at NIU) wasn't a production issue but meshing issue.

There is now a chance for those to be recruited to step right in and earn immediate and significant PT.

I see this as an opportunity.

(03-12-2018 04:34 PM)okgc Wrote:  Obviously you didnt live in Kzoo during the Donewald years because this is not the slightest even remotely the same. Those were just ugly ugly times.

I remember the year Tony Barksdale left town at winter break, went to New York and got involved in some kind of crazy playground for money games, he kept winning so forgot to come back to the Zoo for start of conference play, missed a couple games and had to sit for a minute. That guy had the softest smoothest dribble I’ve ever seen.

Jones was a mess. Huge talent and obviously not coachable... guys like that can ruin a locker room. Anyone else see Miami kick Suh out? It happens. Good riddance.

(03-12-2018 04:35 PM)okgc Wrote:  Jones joins a long list

https://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/Melvin%20Morgan

Thanks for posting that. There are so many people that act like WMU is the only school in America that has players transfer out.

(03-12-2018 08:27 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Jones was a mess. Huge talent and obviously not coachable... guys like that can ruin a locker room. Anyone else see Miami kick Suh out? It happens. Good riddance.

Totally agree! Very similar to what I posted, you were just a little more blunt and to the point. So many though want Coach Hawkins fired because he "let" Jones transfer.

(03-12-2018 09:18 PM)WMUPorter Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 08:27 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  Jones was a mess. Huge talent and obviously not coachable... guys like that can ruin a locker room. Anyone else see Miami kick Suh out? It happens. Good riddance.

Totally agree! Very similar to what I posted, you were just a little more blunt and to the point. So many though want Coach Hawkins fired because he "let" Jones transfer.

I don't think that's why people want to move on from Hawkins.