The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(05-09-2018 09:27 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 09:21 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 07:16 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:54 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:44 PM)blewbyu Wrote:  UVA refusing to play ODU is one thing. But refusing to play a one and done speaks volumes. Cowardly uva is scared of losing to ODU. Just like when ODU played a 5 game run with VATECH. 3 games at Tech and 2 at ODU. ODU wins 4 out of 5. Seth (idiot) Greenberg said after that series " we will never do that again " and to my knowledge we haven't played tech since. So in the future remember uva is really just an extension of vatech...both cowards but one wears a preppy little tie. Hey if you don't believe me ask UMBC.

That's what I don't get. If they're scared of losing to ODU, then why would they play two home-and-homes against VCU, especially after VCU beat them at their place to start the first one? If they're scared of losing to a lesser team, why are they scheduling JMU and George Mason at all, much less going to their place? It couldn't be the "coach won't play his former assistants thing" because Tony Bennett has no connection to anyone at ODU. I know JJ's tenure didn't end the way they wanted but unless he ate babies and crapped them out on the graves of war veterans, I can't imagine it's because of burnt bridges.

It's weird af. VT at least is consistent in their unwillingness to play many state teams. UVa seems as though they're willing to play any Virginia school except ODU, and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

Governor's classic. ODU 63, UVA 61.

But if that's an issue, wouldn't UVa. want revenge for screwing up their NCAA chances? Plus that was a veritable lifetime ago in college basketball years.

(05-08-2018 09:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  We fit into a very small (maybe just one) list of teams in the state that they could actually lose too and be embarrassed by it. GMU isn't going to beat them, neither is JMU, and a VCU loss isn't embarrassing. Our profile sucks right now, but people who know what's really going on know we are good enough to steal one from a good team.

Perhaps, but that's one hell of a needle they're trying to thread. They have also done a home-and-home with GW and an effective home-and-home (road game at the Hornets' arena) with Davidson, both programs in ODU's neighborhood. It's one thing for Tech to big-time schools (even if they have no real cause to), but Virginia has been surprisingly open about scheduling mid-major programs — except ODU.

I have mentioned that some of our fans have a skewed perception of what we look like to an outsider at this point in time, you have just demonstrated that. We are nowhere near Davidson's "neighborhood", and GW has one huge advantage over us in perception, even if they are typically not better than us on the court, they are in the A10. Our profile is terrible right now, and so many just don't seem to get what damage the mediocrity of the JJ era has done to our profile as a program.

Same neighborhood does not equal literally the same. Both programs occupy roughly the same strata. Last season they would have been an even matchup, the main difference is that Davidson got hot in the A-10 tournament and got a bid. They're a good program that had a couple of legendary coaches and Steph Curry, but let's not get overboard deifying them either.

Fordham, Duquesne and George Mason are in the A10 too. Should ODU tremble in obedience in their presence?

And if ODU's profile is "terrible" then why would UVa not schedule them the same way they did JMU and Mason, both of which are also ******?

(05-09-2018 09:40 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 09:27 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 09:21 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 07:16 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(05-08-2018 08:54 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  That's what I don't get. If they're scared of losing to ODU, then why would they play two home-and-homes against VCU, especially after VCU beat them at their place to start the first one? If they're scared of losing to a lesser team, why are they scheduling JMU and George Mason at all, much less going to their place? It couldn't be the "coach won't play his former assistants thing" because Tony Bennett has no connection to anyone at ODU. I know JJ's tenure didn't end the way they wanted but unless he ate babies and crapped them out on the graves of war veterans, I can't imagine it's because of burnt bridges.

It's weird af. VT at least is consistent in their unwillingness to play many state teams. UVa seems as though they're willing to play any Virginia school except ODU, and I can't for the life of me figure out why.

Governor's classic. ODU 63, UVA 61.

But if that's an issue, wouldn't UVa. want revenge for screwing up their NCAA chances? Plus that was a veritable lifetime ago in college basketball years.

(05-08-2018 09:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  We fit into a very small (maybe just one) list of teams in the state that they could actually lose too and be embarrassed by it. GMU isn't going to beat them, neither is JMU, and a VCU loss isn't embarrassing. Our profile sucks right now, but people who know what's really going on know we are good enough to steal one from a good team.

Perhaps, but that's one hell of a needle they're trying to thread. They have also done a home-and-home with GW and an effective home-and-home (road game at the Hornets' arena) with Davidson, both programs in ODU's neighborhood. It's one thing for Tech to big-time schools (even if they have no real cause to), but Virginia has been surprisingly open about scheduling mid-major programs — except ODU.

I have mentioned that some of our fans have a skewed perception of what we look like to an outsider at this point in time, you have just demonstrated that. We are nowhere near Davidson's "neighborhood", and GW has one huge advantage over us in perception, even if they are typically not better than us on the court, they are in the A10. Our profile is terrible right now, and so many just don't seem to get what damage the mediocrity of the JJ era has done to our profile as a program.

Same neighborhood does not equal literally the same. Both programs occupy roughly the same strata. Last season they would have been an even matchup, the main difference is that Davidson got hot in the A-10 tournament and got a bid. They're a good program that had a couple of legendary coaches and Steph Curry, but let's not get overboard deifying them either.

Fordham, Duquesne and George Mason are in the A10 too. Should ODU tremble in obedience in their presence?

And if ODU's profile is "terrible" then why would UVa not schedule them the same way they did JMU and Mason, both of which are also ******?

You are talking performance. I am talking perception. Our perception is miles from Davidson's.

(05-09-2018 10:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 09:40 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 09:27 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 09:21 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 07:16 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Governor's classic. ODU 63, UVA 61.

But if that's an issue, wouldn't UVa. want revenge for screwing up their NCAA chances? Plus that was a veritable lifetime ago in college basketball years.

(05-08-2018 09:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  We fit into a very small (maybe just one) list of teams in the state that they could actually lose too and be embarrassed by it. GMU isn't going to beat them, neither is JMU, and a VCU loss isn't embarrassing. Our profile sucks right now, but people who know what's really going on know we are good enough to steal one from a good team.

Perhaps, but that's one hell of a needle they're trying to thread. They have also done a home-and-home with GW and an effective home-and-home (road game at the Hornets' arena) with Davidson, both programs in ODU's neighborhood. It's one thing for Tech to big-time schools (even if they have no real cause to), but Virginia has been surprisingly open about scheduling mid-major programs — except ODU.

I have mentioned that some of our fans have a skewed perception of what we look like to an outsider at this point in time, you have just demonstrated that. We are nowhere near Davidson's "neighborhood", and GW has one huge advantage over us in perception, even if they are typically not better than us on the court, they are in the A10. Our profile is terrible right now, and so many just don't seem to get what damage the mediocrity of the JJ era has done to our profile as a program.

Same neighborhood does not equal literally the same. Both programs occupy roughly the same strata. Last season they would have been an even matchup, the main difference is that Davidson got hot in the A-10 tournament and got a bid. They're a good program that had a couple of legendary coaches and Steph Curry, but let's not get overboard deifying them either.

Fordham, Duquesne and George Mason are in the A10 too. Should ODU tremble in obedience in their presence?

And if ODU's profile is "terrible" then why would UVa not schedule them the same way they did JMU and Mason, both of which are also ******?

You are talking performance. I am talking perception. Our perception is miles from Davidson's.

Who's perception? You like to talk about what everyone's perception is, but its never anything but your perception.

Maybe UVA should schedule Hofstra. Apparently they are a better program in at least one person's perception.

Sorry there is not KenPom for perception, but go ask some basketball fans on the general board which program is better, ODU or Davidson and see what you come back with. I would be shocked if a single person said that ODU is the better program. If you don't want to do that, look at the tournament selection process. Look at the seeds Davidson gets, look at the at large Davidson gets, and tell me if you think ANYBODY in CUSA would get a similar level of respect. #datapointsdonthavetobenumbers

(05-09-2018 10:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 09:40 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 09:27 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 09:21 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 07:16 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Governor's classic. ODU 63, UVA 61.

But if that's an issue, wouldn't UVa. want revenge for screwing up their NCAA chances? Plus that was a veritable lifetime ago in college basketball years.

(05-08-2018 09:50 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  We fit into a very small (maybe just one) list of teams in the state that they could actually lose too and be embarrassed by it. GMU isn't going to beat them, neither is JMU, and a VCU loss isn't embarrassing. Our profile sucks right now, but people who know what's really going on know we are good enough to steal one from a good team.

Perhaps, but that's one hell of a needle they're trying to thread. They have also done a home-and-home with GW and an effective home-and-home (road game at the Hornets' arena) with Davidson, both programs in ODU's neighborhood. It's one thing for Tech to big-time schools (even if they have no real cause to), but Virginia has been surprisingly open about scheduling mid-major programs — except ODU.

I have mentioned that some of our fans have a skewed perception of what we look like to an outsider at this point in time, you have just demonstrated that. We are nowhere near Davidson's "neighborhood", and GW has one huge advantage over us in perception, even if they are typically not better than us on the court, they are in the A10. Our profile is terrible right now, and so many just don't seem to get what damage the mediocrity of the JJ era has done to our profile as a program.

Same neighborhood does not equal literally the same. Both programs occupy roughly the same strata. Last season they would have been an even matchup, the main difference is that Davidson got hot in the A-10 tournament and got a bid. They're a good program that had a couple of legendary coaches and Steph Curry, but let's not get overboard deifying them either.

Fordham, Duquesne and George Mason are in the A10 too. Should ODU tremble in obedience in their presence?

And if ODU's profile is "terrible" then why would UVa not schedule them the same way they did JMU and Mason, both of which are also ******?

You are talking performance. I am talking perception. Our perception is miles from Davidson's.

Fair point (not sure about miles but I'll say it's better right now, yes).

But with that said, I would think that coaches — certainly good ones like Bennett — schedule with performance, not perception, in mind. Perception is more for the average fans; the coaches, ADs and selection-committee members are a lot more likely to be informed by raw data and what they see themselves.

Had U.Va. played ODU last season, it would have been a quadrant 1/2 game in Norfolk, a 2 on a neutral site and a 2/3 in Charlottesville. Not headline-grabbing stuff but certainly not a bad matchup.

We will agree to disagree. I think, when playing a team perceived as a lower caliber than you, coaches definitely consider risk/reward and one of the risks is an embarrassing loss. Embarrassment is not a result of quality, but rather perception.

(05-09-2018 10:34 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Sorry there is not KenPom for perception, but go ask some basketball fans on the general board which program is better, ODU or Davidson and see what you come back with. I would be shocked if a single person said that ODU is the better program. If you don't want to do that, look at the tournament selection process. Look at the seeds Davidson gets, look at the at large Davidson gets, and tell me if you think ANYBODY in CUSA would get a similar level of respect. #datapointsdonthavetobenumbers

So again, it's what your perception of what you think other people will think?

Davidson has had 1 at large bid in their history, FWIW. 2015 as a 10 seed after finishing first in the A-10.

There historical seeds are:

2018- 12 (stole bid)
2017- 10
2013- 14
2012- 13
2008- 10
2007 - 13
2006- 15
2002- 13


How much respect are you referring to with zero single digit seeds and 1 at large bid?

Where did MTSU end up this year? What was Marshall's seed? WKU? The 12 seed indicates they were on the bubble with a 3rd place finish in their conference and a 21-12 record. Where are we when we finish 25-7 and 2nd in our conference... not even in the NIT. Quite the disparity.

(05-09-2018 11:04 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Where did MTSU end up this year? What was Marshall's seed? WKU? The 12 seed indicates they were on the bubble with a 3rd place finish in their conference and a 21-12 record. Where are we when we finish 25-7 and 2nd in our conference... not even in the NIT. Quite the disparity.

MTSU didn't win conference tourney, was on bubble,and didn't get in. Same thing that would have happened to Davidson if they hadn't won the conference tourney. There was zero chance Davidson got in without winning the tourney. They were not on the bubble.

(05-09-2018 10:34 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Sorry there is not KenPom for perception, but go ask some basketball fans on the general board which program is better, ODU or Davidson and see what you come back with. I would be shocked if a single person said that ODU is the better program. If you don't want to do that, look at the tournament selection process. Look at the seeds Davidson gets, look at the at large Davidson gets, and tell me if you think ANYBODY in CUSA would get a similar level of respect. #datapointsdonthavetobenumbers

You're right. They would get into a debate on what defines a program and you'd never get your answer.

My perception of ODU's strength might be skewed but I highly doubt anyone looks at an existing CAA school as stronger than ODU. So perhaps someone could explain why would UVA play at JMU? And I'll hang up and listen.

It's really a non-story about quirkiness as opposed to strength of program.

(05-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 11:04 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Where did MTSU end up this year? What was Marshall's seed? WKU? The 12 seed indicates they were on the bubble with a 3rd place finish in their conference and a 21-12 record. Where are we when we finish 25-7 and 2nd in our conference... not even in the NIT. Quite the disparity.

MTSU didn't win conference tourney, was on bubble,and didn't get in. Same thing that would have happened to Davidson if they hadn't won the conference tourney. There was zero chance Davidson got in without winning the tourney. They were not on the bubble.

MTSU was not on the bubble. There were at least 8 in front of them. If they beat Southern Miss and Marshall, they would have been on the bubble... maybe. I still don't know if anyone has ever gotten an at-large with a total of just 4 top 100 wins. Their resume sucked.

(05-09-2018 12:10 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 11:04 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Where did MTSU end up this year? What was Marshall's seed? WKU? The 12 seed indicates they were on the bubble with a 3rd place finish in their conference and a 21-12 record. Where are we when we finish 25-7 and 2nd in our conference... not even in the NIT. Quite the disparity.

MTSU didn't win conference tourney, was on bubble,and didn't get in. Same thing that would have happened to Davidson if they hadn't won the conference tourney. There was zero chance Davidson got in without winning the tourney. They were not on the bubble.

MTSU was not on the bubble. There were at least 8 in front of them. If they beat Southern Miss and Marshall, they would have been on the bubble... maybe. I still don't know if anyone has ever gotten an at-large with a total of just 4 top 100 wins. Their resume sucked.

Edit to reflect that I completely screwed the pooch w/r/t remembering where Middle Tennessee was needed in the NIT.

(05-09-2018 01:02 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 12:10 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 11:04 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Where did MTSU end up this year? What was Marshall's seed? WKU? The 12 seed indicates they were on the bubble with a 3rd place finish in their conference and a 21-12 record. Where are we when we finish 25-7 and 2nd in our conference... not even in the NIT. Quite the disparity.

MTSU didn't win conference tourney, was on bubble,and didn't get in. Same thing that would have happened to Davidson if they hadn't won the conference tourney. There was zero chance Davidson got in without winning the tourney. They were not on the bubble.

MTSU was not on the bubble. There were at least 8 in front of them. If they beat Southern Miss and Marshall, they would have been on the bubble... maybe. I still don't know if anyone has ever gotten an at-large with a total of just 4 top 100 wins. Their resume sucked.

Now that the last four out of the NCAA are automatically made No. 1 seeds in the NIT, by definition that means Middle Tennessee was firmly on the bubble. You can argue that the distinction is a legal fiction made to placate mid-majors when they weren't actually that close to getting in, but you can also argue that not only is that something they've been doing for a long time, but if anything there's less reason for the NCAA to offer Last 4 status as a consolation prize because there's a tangible reward attached — a top NIT seed and up to three home games.

MTSU was not a 1 seed in the NIT, they were a 3 seed. Hence, my point there were at least 8 teams ahead of them.

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(05-09-2018 01:52 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 01:02 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 12:10 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 11:19 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(05-09-2018 11:04 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Where did MTSU end up this year? What was Marshall's seed? WKU? The 12 seed indicates they were on the bubble with a 3rd place finish in their conference and a 21-12 record. Where are we when we finish 25-7 and 2nd in our conference... not even in the NIT. Quite the disparity.

MTSU didn't win conference tourney, was on bubble,and didn't get in. Same thing that would have happened to Davidson if they hadn't won the conference tourney. There was zero chance Davidson got in without winning the tourney. They were not on the bubble.

MTSU was not on the bubble. There were at least 8 in front of them. If they beat Southern Miss and Marshall, they would have been on the bubble... maybe. I still don't know if anyone has ever gotten an at-large with a total of just 4 top 100 wins. Their resume sucked.

Now that the last four out of the NCAA are automatically made No. 1 seeds in the NIT, by definition that means Middle Tennessee was firmly on the bubble. You can argue that the distinction is a legal fiction made to placate mid-majors when they weren't actually that close to getting in, but you can also argue that not only is that something they've been doing for a long time, but if anything there's less reason for the NCAA to offer Last 4 status as a consolation prize because there's a tangible reward attached — a top NIT seed and up to three home games.

MTSU was not a 1 seed in the NIT, they were a 3 seed. Hence, my point there were at least 8 teams ahead of them.

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****, that's right, I think I confused them with St. Mary's. That's what I get for following my gut on non-food topics.

That said, I do think they were at least in the conversation for an at-large heading into the Southern Miss game. They might have needed to get to the final to have a real chance, but top-100 record notwithstanding, I believe they would have been seriously considered if they lost to WKU in the final.

LOL at anyone that thinks ODU is anywhere close to Davidson right now. Davidson is one of the most successful mid majors with one of the best coaches in the country.

(05-10-2018 06:55 AM)757ODU Wrote:  LOL at anyone that thinks ODU is anywhere close to Davidson right now. Davidson is one of the most successful mid majors with one of the best coaches in the country.

Yep. Perspective is not a strength on this board.

(05-10-2018 06:55 AM)757ODU Wrote:  LOL at anyone that thinks ODU is anywhere close to Davidson right now. Davidson is one of the most successful mid majors with one of the best coaches in the country.

I don't think anyone in this thread thinks ODU is better than Davidson right now.

To put them in comparison (over the last 5 years)

ODU is 114-58
Davidson is 102-61

Obviously, strength of schedule is further consideration...

Ken Pom rankings:

2018-64/43
2017-120/85
2016-100/106
2015-70/36
2014-175/123

Both had rough years 5 years ago (Jones's first). In the last 4 years ODU has averaged 89 and Davidson 68.

The odd thing is outside of this board Old Dominion is way more highly thought of. The only people that you read constantly putting down the basketball program is posters on this board (or Marshall ones).

Can you provide some examples of how ODU is thought of so much more favorably outside of this board? Thanks.

(05-10-2018 09:38 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(05-10-2018 06:55 AM)757ODU Wrote:  LOL at anyone that thinks ODU is anywhere close to Davidson right now. Davidson is one of the most successful mid majors with one of the best coaches in the country.

I don't think anyone in this thread thinks ODU is better than Davidson right now.

To put them in comparison (over the last 5 years)

ODU is 114-58
Davidson is 102-61

Obviously, strength of schedule is further consideration...

Ken Pom rankings:

2018-64/43
2017-120/85
2016-100/106
2015-70/36
2014-175/123

Both had rough years 5 years ago (Jones's first). In the last 4 years ODU has averaged 89 and Davidson 68.

The odd thing is outside of this board Old Dominion is way more highly thought of. The only people that you read constantly putting down the basketball program is posters on this board (or Marshall ones).

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