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odu09 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-24-2018 12:52 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 01:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 01:49 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 12:47 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 12:21 PM)mac Wrote:  The article last week said we are holding open one last date in hopes to convince a team like you want to play us. Not happening so far at least.

Im all for playing road ACC, Big East, SEC, P-12, Big 12, Big 10 games with no return.

I would also do an AAC 2 for 1

And home and homes with Sun Belt, A-10, MAC, MWC.

C-USA and all Mid-Majors (G5) need to stop scheduling the UMES, Fairfield, Norfolk St, and JMUs. There is no point to scheduling an opponent of a guaranteed 1-bid league (low major). ODU should be scheduling aggressively because this what you get with a cupcake schedule

Not going to happen. Tomato cans are an important part of almost every program's scheduling diet. They give lesser programs a home date and a winnable game, and stronger programs the opportunity to give their bench guys some run and an opportunity to road-test different schemes.

The best thing ODU can do to improve their at-large chances is to be in a better conference, whether that involves moving to the A-10 or AAC, doing their part to make CUSA a viable multi-bid conference, or helping to create a better conference out of whole cloth. Because if this year has taught us anything, it's that you are judged by the company you keep more than what you do with them. I'm not even a big mid-major conspiracy guy, but Middle Tennessee and St. Mary's are an object lesson in the abject unfairness of the system as it stands today.

At least MTSU did try and they got nothing from it. St Marys actually turned down some P-5 schools. MTSU worked with the premise that playing good teams on the road would help.

ODU was close a few years back. MTSU got snubbed, but would have likely gotten in with one CUSA Tournament win.

It is possible, and at this point, we need to open as many avenues to the NCAA's as possible.

Scheduling schools like Cincy instead of UMES not only enhances ODU's at-large chances, but it also creates a lot more fan interest.

(and if we lose, our at-large chances aren't damaged any more than they were by beating UMES).

I don't think anyone at ODU doesn't want to play Cinci. Why would Cinci put ODU on the schedule? The argument you just used against UMES is the same argument schools like Cinci use on us.
04-24-2018 02:58 PM
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ODUBB35 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
It's not so much UMES. We need a cupcake or 2. We just don't need UMES, Norfolk State, Bowling Green, Fairfield, and JMU all in the same season. I'd say keep JMU and Norfolk State, since there is fan interest in those, and replace the other 3 with some beef.

Maybe we won't be goid enough to get an at-large bid, but I would rather have the players decide that in November than to have the schedule maker decide that in June.
04-24-2018 03:26 PM
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odu09 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-24-2018 03:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  It's not so much UMES. We need a cupcake or 2. We just don't need UMES, Norfolk State, Bowling Green, Fairfield, and JMU all in the same season. I'd say keep JMU and Norfolk State, since there is fan interest in those, and replace the other 3 with some beef.

Maybe we won't be goid enough to get an at-large bid, but I would rather have the players decide that in November than to have the schedule maker decide that in June.

I agree, but my point was it's easier to say than to do. The bigger teams really don't gain much benefit in scheduling us
04-24-2018 03:31 PM
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ODUBB35 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-24-2018 03:31 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 03:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  It's not so much UMES. We need a cupcake or 2. We just don't need UMES, Norfolk State, Bowling Green, Fairfield, and JMU all in the same season. I'd say keep JMU and Norfolk State, since there is fan interest in those, and replace the other 3 with some beef.

Maybe we won't be goid enough to get an at-large bid, but I would rather have the players decide that in November than to have the schedule maker decide that in June.

I agree, but my point was it's easier to say than to do. The bigger teams really don't gain much benefit in scheduling us

That's why they get paid big bucks. Other mid-majors seem to be able to do it.
04-24-2018 03:37 PM
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ODUDJ96 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(03-13-2018 07:46 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  Get JMU off the schedule. That is a waste of a game.

Agreed - but some will argue the caa is a better conference. We should take the opportunity to play a team in a better conference:)
04-24-2018 06:41 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #46
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-24-2018 06:41 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  
(03-13-2018 07:46 AM)cmett003 Wrote:  Get JMU off the schedule. That is a waste of a game.

Agreed - but some will argue the caa is a better conference. We should take the opportunity to play a team in a better conference:)

JMU is a good game for a number of reasons. A chance to beat a team from a "better" conference, its an in-state rivalry with lots of local interest and sells tickets, playing them gets us a little bit of press in the western part of the state where nobody knows about ODU, beating them knocks the CAA back making it more likely for CUSA to be ranked ahead of them as a conference.
04-25-2018 09:15 AM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #47
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
Why do people keep calling the CAA a better basketball conference? Conference RPI is not the got-on-a-cross-and-died-for-my-sins perfect metric for determining good teams, much LESS good conferences. It can and has been exploited by teams/conferences with number savvy. CUSA has more bad teams and that weighs their numbers down, but CUSA's top teams are better, they actually do **** in the NCAAs and are more likely to be in the at-large conversation (at least three teams since ODU moved to CUSA, whereas I can't think of a CAA team in the neighborhood of consideration in that time).

To put another way: The CAA was ranked ahead of the WCC this season. Which would you consider better? Which title would be more impressive? The WAC was ahead of CUSA. Does anyone think the WAC is a better conference?

JMU, like all former CAA opponents from Virginia, is a good opponent for ODU. Even though they've not been great or even good for a while, it's a rival of sorts and an easily get-to-able game. Especially since ODU will probably always be in a far-flung conference, it's important to get the regional teams on a regular rotation in the OOC.
04-25-2018 09:35 AM
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MonarchManiac Offline
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Post: #48
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 09:35 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Why do people keep calling the CAA a better basketball conference? Conference RPI is not the got-on-a-cross-and-died-for-my-sins perfect metric for determining good teams, much LESS good conferences. It can and has been exploited by teams/conferences with number savvy. CUSA has more bad teams and that weighs their numbers down, but CUSA's top teams are better, they actually do **** in the NCAAs and are more likely to be in the at-large conversation (at least three teams since ODU moved to CUSA, whereas I can't think of a CAA team in the neighborhood of consideration in that time).

To put another way: The CAA was ranked ahead of the WCC this season. Which would you consider better? Which title would be more impressive? The WAC was ahead of CUSA. Does anyone think the WAC is a better conference?

JMU, like all former CAA opponents from Virginia, is a good opponent for ODU. Even though they've not been great or even good for a while, it's a rival of sorts and an easily get-to-able game. Especially since ODU will probably always be in a far-flung conference, it's important to get the regional teams on a regular rotation in the OOC.

THANK YOU.

So tired of hearing people say CAA is somehow a better conference. Just not true.
04-25-2018 10:00 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #49
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-24-2018 02:58 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 12:52 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 01:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 01:49 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 12:47 PM)cmett003 Wrote:  Im all for playing road ACC, Big East, SEC, P-12, Big 12, Big 10 games with no return.

I would also do an AAC 2 for 1

And home and homes with Sun Belt, A-10, MAC, MWC.

C-USA and all Mid-Majors (G5) need to stop scheduling the UMES, Fairfield, Norfolk St, and JMUs. There is no point to scheduling an opponent of a guaranteed 1-bid league (low major). ODU should be scheduling aggressively because this what you get with a cupcake schedule

Not going to happen. Tomato cans are an important part of almost every program's scheduling diet. They give lesser programs a home date and a winnable game, and stronger programs the opportunity to give their bench guys some run and an opportunity to road-test different schemes.

The best thing ODU can do to improve their at-large chances is to be in a better conference, whether that involves moving to the A-10 or AAC, doing their part to make CUSA a viable multi-bid conference, or helping to create a better conference out of whole cloth. Because if this year has taught us anything, it's that you are judged by the company you keep more than what you do with them. I'm not even a big mid-major conspiracy guy, but Middle Tennessee and St. Mary's are an object lesson in the abject unfairness of the system as it stands today.

At least MTSU did try and they got nothing from it. St Marys actually turned down some P-5 schools. MTSU worked with the premise that playing good teams on the road would help.

ODU was close a few years back. MTSU got snubbed, but would have likely gotten in with one CUSA Tournament win.

It is possible, and at this point, we need to open as many avenues to the NCAA's as possible.

Scheduling schools like Cincy instead of UMES not only enhances ODU's at-large chances, but it also creates a lot more fan interest.

(and if we lose, our at-large chances aren't damaged any more than they were by beating UMES).

I don't think anyone at ODU doesn't want to play Cinci. Why would Cinci put ODU on the schedule? The argument you just used against UMES is the same argument schools like Cinci use on us.

Cincy, Memphis and UConn are strange ones because their basketball programs are so much better than the rest of the AAC. They really don't fit in that conference. If you leave them out, ODU would do well to schedule any of the rest of the AAC because those teams will automatically have a higher RPI than UMES etc simply by playing those top three (and WSU). We should be scheduling as many AAC, A10, MVC teams as possible, with a few OVC, SBC, MEAC, CAA thrown in.

An OOC with ECU, USF, UMass, VCU, UR, GW, Temple, GSU, WM, Belmont, Murray St, NSU, Drake would be fine by me.
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2018 10:22 AM by monarx.)
04-25-2018 10:18 AM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #50
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 10:18 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 02:58 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 12:52 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 01:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 01:49 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Not going to happen. Tomato cans are an important part of almost every program's scheduling diet. They give lesser programs a home date and a winnable game, and stronger programs the opportunity to give their bench guys some run and an opportunity to road-test different schemes.

The best thing ODU can do to improve their at-large chances is to be in a better conference, whether that involves moving to the A-10 or AAC, doing their part to make CUSA a viable multi-bid conference, or helping to create a better conference out of whole cloth. Because if this year has taught us anything, it's that you are judged by the company you keep more than what you do with them. I'm not even a big mid-major conspiracy guy, but Middle Tennessee and St. Mary's are an object lesson in the abject unfairness of the system as it stands today.

At least MTSU did try and they got nothing from it. St Marys actually turned down some P-5 schools. MTSU worked with the premise that playing good teams on the road would help.

ODU was close a few years back. MTSU got snubbed, but would have likely gotten in with one CUSA Tournament win.

It is possible, and at this point, we need to open as many avenues to the NCAA's as possible.

Scheduling schools like Cincy instead of UMES not only enhances ODU's at-large chances, but it also creates a lot more fan interest.

(and if we lose, our at-large chances aren't damaged any more than they were by beating UMES).

I don't think anyone at ODU doesn't want to play Cinci. Why would Cinci put ODU on the schedule? The argument you just used against UMES is the same argument schools like Cinci use on us.

Cincy, Memphis and UConn are strange ones because their basketball programs are so much better than the rest of the AAC. They really don't fit in that conference. If you leave them out, ODU would do well to schedule any of the rest of the AAC because those teams will automatically have a higher RPI than UMES etc simply by playing those top three (and WSU). We should be scheduling as many AAC, A10, MVC teams as possible, with a few OVC, SBC, MEAC, CAA thrown in.

What makes you think they're not? Scheduling isn't like going to the supermarket and picking out what you want; both teams need to be equally interested and they have to agree on the terms of the games. ODU routinely plays multiple A-10 teams every year and will have at least three this coming season (VCU, Richmond, St. Joseph's). Just because every game isn't tailor-made for ESPN doesn't mean they're not trying to construct a good schedule.

And people keep pointing to UMES (or similar opponents) as being beneath ODU and/or a useless game. Well last year UMES played, among others, Maryland, Georgetown, St. Bonaventure, Virginia Tech, Creighton and Iowa State. And yet somehow they manage to overcome the indignity of playing them to still be considered strong basketball programs.

Schools like UMES serve a purpose in the early part of the season for stronger programs. Backups get more run. Coaches experiment with lineups and defenses. Fans get an easy win. Pretty much everybody plays bodybag games. That's the nature of the beast. And yet every time a game that doesn't meet our lofty approval gets scheduled, some people around here throw temper tantrums about how ODU doesn't care about the quality of the program and that it's not showing ambition or that it's living off low-hanging fruit.

The funny thing is that despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth that traditionally accompany the release of the basketball schedule, ODU usually has one of the better OOCs in CUSA OR the mighty and sacrosanct CAA.
04-25-2018 10:30 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #51
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 10:30 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 10:18 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 02:58 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 12:52 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 01:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  At least MTSU did try and they got nothing from it. St Marys actually turned down some P-5 schools. MTSU worked with the premise that playing good teams on the road would help.

ODU was close a few years back. MTSU got snubbed, but would have likely gotten in with one CUSA Tournament win.

It is possible, and at this point, we need to open as many avenues to the NCAA's as possible.

Scheduling schools like Cincy instead of UMES not only enhances ODU's at-large chances, but it also creates a lot more fan interest.

(and if we lose, our at-large chances aren't damaged any more than they were by beating UMES).

I don't think anyone at ODU doesn't want to play Cinci. Why would Cinci put ODU on the schedule? The argument you just used against UMES is the same argument schools like Cinci use on us.

Cincy, Memphis and UConn are strange ones because their basketball programs are so much better than the rest of the AAC. They really don't fit in that conference. If you leave them out, ODU would do well to schedule any of the rest of the AAC because those teams will automatically have a higher RPI than UMES etc simply by playing those top three (and WSU). We should be scheduling as many AAC, A10, MVC teams as possible, with a few OVC, SBC, MEAC, CAA thrown in.

What makes you think they're not? Scheduling isn't like going to the supermarket and picking out what you want; both teams need to be equally interested and they have to agree on the terms of the games. ODU routinely plays multiple A-10 teams every year and will have at least three this coming season (VCU, Richmond, St. Joseph's). Just because every game isn't tailor-made for ESPN doesn't mean they're not trying to construct a good schedule.

And people keep pointing to UMES (or similar opponents) as being beneath ODU and/or a useless game. Well last year UMES played, among others, Maryland, Georgetown, St. Bonaventure, Virginia Tech, Creighton and Iowa State. And yet somehow they manage to overcome the indignity of playing them to still be considered strong basketball programs.

Schools like UMES serve a purpose in the early part of the season for stronger programs. Backups get more run. Coaches experiment with lineups and defenses. Fans get an easy win. Pretty much everybody plays bodybag games. That's the nature of the beast. And yet every time a game that doesn't meet our lofty approval gets scheduled, some people around here throw temper tantrums about how ODU doesn't care about the quality of the program and that it's not showing ambition or that it's living off low-hanging fruit.

The funny thing is that despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth that traditionally accompany the release of the basketball schedule, ODU usually has one of the better OOCs in CUSA OR the mighty and sacrosanct CAA.

The schools you mentioned that also play UMES are able to absorb the rpi hit because they play tough, respected teams in conference. We play too many teams comparable to UMES in conference to have that luxury. Of course, all of this is moot until we can beat MTSU and WKU.
04-25-2018 11:02 AM
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ODUBB35 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
Again, I have no issue with having UMES on the schedule. I just don't want 5 UMES's on the schedule.
04-25-2018 11:32 AM
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cmett003 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 11:32 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Again, I have no issue with having UMES on the schedule. I just don't want 5 UMES's on the schedule.

+1
04-25-2018 11:59 AM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #54
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 09:35 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Why do people keep calling the CAA a better basketball conference? Conference RPI is not the got-on-a-cross-and-died-for-my-sins perfect metric for determining good teams, much LESS good conferences. It can and has been exploited by teams/conferences with number savvy. CUSA has more bad teams and that weighs their numbers down, but CUSA's top teams are better, they actually do **** in the NCAAs and are more likely to be in the at-large conversation (at least three teams since ODU moved to CUSA, whereas I can't think of a CAA team in the neighborhood of consideration in that time).

To put another way: The CAA was ranked ahead of the WCC this season. Which would you consider better? Which title would be more impressive? The WAC was ahead of CUSA. Does anyone think the WAC is a better conference?

JMU, like all former CAA opponents from Virginia, is a good opponent for ODU. Even though they've not been great or even good for a while, it's a rival of sorts and an easily get-to-able game. Especially since ODU will probably always be in a far-flung conference, it's important to get the regional teams on a regular rotation in the OOC.

It doesn't matter what we think, or even what is true. CAA is perceived as a better conference and this is largely because of conference RPI.
04-25-2018 12:05 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #55
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 12:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 09:35 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Why do people keep calling the CAA a better basketball conference? Conference RPI is not the got-on-a-cross-and-died-for-my-sins perfect metric for determining good teams, much LESS good conferences. It can and has been exploited by teams/conferences with number savvy. CUSA has more bad teams and that weighs their numbers down, but CUSA's top teams are better, they actually do **** in the NCAAs and are more likely to be in the at-large conversation (at least three teams since ODU moved to CUSA, whereas I can't think of a CAA team in the neighborhood of consideration in that time).

To put another way: The CAA was ranked ahead of the WCC this season. Which would you consider better? Which title would be more impressive? The WAC was ahead of CUSA. Does anyone think the WAC is a better conference?

JMU, like all former CAA opponents from Virginia, is a good opponent for ODU. Even though they've not been great or even good for a while, it's a rival of sorts and an easily get-to-able game. Especially since ODU will probably always be in a far-flung conference, it's important to get the regional teams on a regular rotation in the OOC.

It doesn't matter what we think, or even what is true. CAA is perceived as a better conference and this is largely because of conference RPI.

Who perceives it? The talking heads on TV? The tournament selection committee? The NCAA power brokers? If the CAA is that great a conference, then how come their media rights deal gave them a handful of internet games and the basketball semis and finals on CBSSN? Even if CUSA has the worst TV/internet contract in FBS, it's still light years ahead of the CAA's. Their top teams are better and win games in the NCAAs. The conference has more voting power than the CAA.

Exactly where, other than among people here who want to hop aboard the way-back machine and return to the CAA with VCU, George Mason and Richmond, are people perceiving that today's CAA is a higher-quality basketball conference than CUSA?
04-25-2018 01:14 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #56
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 11:02 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 10:30 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 10:18 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 02:58 PM)odu09 Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 12:52 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  ODU was close a few years back. MTSU got snubbed, but would have likely gotten in with one CUSA Tournament win.

It is possible, and at this point, we need to open as many avenues to the NCAA's as possible.

Scheduling schools like Cincy instead of UMES not only enhances ODU's at-large chances, but it also creates a lot more fan interest.

(and if we lose, our at-large chances aren't damaged any more than they were by beating UMES).

I don't think anyone at ODU doesn't want to play Cinci. Why would Cinci put ODU on the schedule? The argument you just used against UMES is the same argument schools like Cinci use on us.

Cincy, Memphis and UConn are strange ones because their basketball programs are so much better than the rest of the AAC. They really don't fit in that conference. If you leave them out, ODU would do well to schedule any of the rest of the AAC because those teams will automatically have a higher RPI than UMES etc simply by playing those top three (and WSU). We should be scheduling as many AAC, A10, MVC teams as possible, with a few OVC, SBC, MEAC, CAA thrown in.

What makes you think they're not? Scheduling isn't like going to the supermarket and picking out what you want; both teams need to be equally interested and they have to agree on the terms of the games. ODU routinely plays multiple A-10 teams every year and will have at least three this coming season (VCU, Richmond, St. Joseph's). Just because every game isn't tailor-made for ESPN doesn't mean they're not trying to construct a good schedule.

And people keep pointing to UMES (or similar opponents) as being beneath ODU and/or a useless game. Well last year UMES played, among others, Maryland, Georgetown, St. Bonaventure, Virginia Tech, Creighton and Iowa State. And yet somehow they manage to overcome the indignity of playing them to still be considered strong basketball programs.

Schools like UMES serve a purpose in the early part of the season for stronger programs. Backups get more run. Coaches experiment with lineups and defenses. Fans get an easy win. Pretty much everybody plays bodybag games. That's the nature of the beast. And yet every time a game that doesn't meet our lofty approval gets scheduled, some people around here throw temper tantrums about how ODU doesn't care about the quality of the program and that it's not showing ambition or that it's living off low-hanging fruit.

The funny thing is that despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth that traditionally accompany the release of the basketball schedule, ODU usually has one of the better OOCs in CUSA OR the mighty and sacrosanct CAA.

The schools you mentioned that also play UMES are able to absorb the rpi hit because they play tough, respected teams in conference. We play too many teams comparable to UMES in conference to have that luxury. Of course, all of this is moot until we can beat MTSU and WKU.

ODU played four games over which people wrung (wranged? wringed?) their hands: Fairfield (late sub for the fallen-through St. Bonaventure deal), Norfolk State (cross-town thing that may or may not be a thing going forward), Bowling Green (which isn't actually a low-major being in the MAC, they just sucked this year) and the mighty marauders of Princess Anne, Maryland. The way people go about you'd think that they played nothing but garbage in the OOC, but my guess is people are really upset that ODU didn't have a sexy game on the schedule (it also didn't help that VCU and Richmond went titties up last season and none of the CAA opponents did squat).

This notion that ODU (or ANYONE) is going to play most if not all of their 13 OOC games against teams with double-digit RPIs is not reasonable. Unless you're Texas Southern and you're willing to crater your home schedule to play-for-pay and see the world.
04-25-2018 01:31 PM
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Post: #57
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 01:14 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 12:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 09:35 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Why do people keep calling the CAA a better basketball conference? Conference RPI is not the got-on-a-cross-and-died-for-my-sins perfect metric for determining good teams, much LESS good conferences. It can and has been exploited by teams/conferences with number savvy. CUSA has more bad teams and that weighs their numbers down, but CUSA's top teams are better, they actually do **** in the NCAAs and are more likely to be in the at-large conversation (at least three teams since ODU moved to CUSA, whereas I can't think of a CAA team in the neighborhood of consideration in that time).

To put another way: The CAA was ranked ahead of the WCC this season. Which would you consider better? Which title would be more impressive? The WAC was ahead of CUSA. Does anyone think the WAC is a better conference?

JMU, like all former CAA opponents from Virginia, is a good opponent for ODU. Even though they've not been great or even good for a while, it's a rival of sorts and an easily get-to-able game. Especially since ODU will probably always be in a far-flung conference, it's important to get the regional teams on a regular rotation in the OOC.

It doesn't matter what we think, or even what is true. CAA is perceived as a better conference and this is largely because of conference RPI.

Who perceives it? The talking heads on TV? The tournament selection committee? The NCAA power brokers? If the CAA is that great a conference, then how come their media rights deal gave them a handful of internet games and the basketball semis and finals on CBSSN? Even if CUSA has the worst TV/internet contract in FBS, it's still light years ahead of the CAA's. Their top teams are better and win games in the NCAAs. The conference has more voting power than the CAA.

Exactly where, other than among people here who want to hop aboard the way-back machine and return to the CAA with VCU, George Mason and Richmond, are people perceiving that today's CAA is a higher-quality basketball conference than CUSA?

Nobody aside from a few thousand of us from the individual schools gives a crap about either conference. Anyone else or any P5 fan would look at the conference RPIs of the last several years and conclude the CAA is a better conference. I don't believe they are a better conference, at least at the top, but aside from the eye test and being one of about .00001% of the country that follows both, it is tough to argue otherwise. Heck, I'm not even sure how to legitimately argue that our #2 team (ODU) is better than their #4 school (W&M), especially given that we barely beat their #5 school (Towson) at home. Tough to claim that we'd finish better than 4/5 there given those 2 tangible results. Nobody is going to drill down and see that we played like trash against Towson and W&M played like the running Steph Currys against us. Most people would perceive it as CUSA #2 ODU being about at the same level as the 4 and 5 of the CAA.
04-25-2018 01:37 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #58
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 01:14 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 12:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 09:35 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Why do people keep calling the CAA a better basketball conference? Conference RPI is not the got-on-a-cross-and-died-for-my-sins perfect metric for determining good teams, much LESS good conferences. It can and has been exploited by teams/conferences with number savvy. CUSA has more bad teams and that weighs their numbers down, but CUSA's top teams are better, they actually do **** in the NCAAs and are more likely to be in the at-large conversation (at least three teams since ODU moved to CUSA, whereas I can't think of a CAA team in the neighborhood of consideration in that time).

To put another way: The CAA was ranked ahead of the WCC this season. Which would you consider better? Which title would be more impressive? The WAC was ahead of CUSA. Does anyone think the WAC is a better conference?

JMU, like all former CAA opponents from Virginia, is a good opponent for ODU. Even though they've not been great or even good for a while, it's a rival of sorts and an easily get-to-able game. Especially since ODU will probably always be in a far-flung conference, it's important to get the regional teams on a regular rotation in the OOC.

It doesn't matter what we think, or even what is true. CAA is perceived as a better conference and this is largely because of conference RPI.

Who perceives it? The talking heads on TV? The tournament selection committee? The NCAA power brokers? If the CAA is that great a conference, then how come their media rights deal gave them a handful of internet games and the basketball semis and finals on CBSSN? Even if CUSA has the worst TV/internet contract in FBS, it's still light years ahead of the CAA's. Their top teams are better and win games in the NCAAs. The conference has more voting power than the CAA.

Exactly where, other than among people here who want to hop aboard the way-back machine and return to the CAA with VCU, George Mason and Richmond, are people perceiving that today's CAA is a higher-quality basketball conference than CUSA?

No one really cares about mid majors as it is so they all pretty much get lumped together....except for fans that check conference RPI.
04-25-2018 02:00 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #59
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 01:37 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 01:14 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 12:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 09:35 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Why do people keep calling the CAA a better basketball conference? Conference RPI is not the got-on-a-cross-and-died-for-my-sins perfect metric for determining good teams, much LESS good conferences. It can and has been exploited by teams/conferences with number savvy. CUSA has more bad teams and that weighs their numbers down, but CUSA's top teams are better, they actually do **** in the NCAAs and are more likely to be in the at-large conversation (at least three teams since ODU moved to CUSA, whereas I can't think of a CAA team in the neighborhood of consideration in that time).

To put another way: The CAA was ranked ahead of the WCC this season. Which would you consider better? Which title would be more impressive? The WAC was ahead of CUSA. Does anyone think the WAC is a better conference?

JMU, like all former CAA opponents from Virginia, is a good opponent for ODU. Even though they've not been great or even good for a while, it's a rival of sorts and an easily get-to-able game. Especially since ODU will probably always be in a far-flung conference, it's important to get the regional teams on a regular rotation in the OOC.

It doesn't matter what we think, or even what is true. CAA is perceived as a better conference and this is largely because of conference RPI.

Who perceives it? The talking heads on TV? The tournament selection committee? The NCAA power brokers? If the CAA is that great a conference, then how come their media rights deal gave them a handful of internet games and the basketball semis and finals on CBSSN? Even if CUSA has the worst TV/internet contract in FBS, it's still light years ahead of the CAA's. Their top teams are better and win games in the NCAAs. The conference has more voting power than the CAA.

Exactly where, other than among people here who want to hop aboard the way-back machine and return to the CAA with VCU, George Mason and Richmond, are people perceiving that today's CAA is a higher-quality basketball conference than CUSA?

Nobody aside from a few thousand of us from the individual schools gives a crap about either conference. Anyone else or any P5 fan would look at the conference RPIs of the last several years and conclude the CAA is a better conference. I don't believe they are a better conference, at least at the top, but aside from the eye test and being one of about .00001% of the country that follows both, it is tough to argue otherwise. Heck, I'm not even sure how to legitimately argue that our #2 team (ODU) is better than their #4 school (W&M), especially given that we barely beat their #5 school (Towson) at home. Tough to claim that we'd finish better than 4/5 there given those 2 tangible results. Nobody is going to drill down and see that we played like trash against Towson and W&M played like the running Steph Currys against us. Most people would perceive it as CUSA #2 ODU being about at the same level as the 4 and 5 of the CAA.

A pox on this fetishization of the easily-manipulable RPI, particularly the conference RPI which holds no power and is an absolutely lousy way to quantify a conference's basketball quality. Unless you really think the WAC, whose second-rated team per the almighty RPI is No. 85 Utah Valley, and which has four of its seven teams rated lower than 220, is objectively better than CUSA. Because to these eye, that's an observation that can only be made within the vacuum of a single, flawed metric.

CUSA had a team win an NCAA game for the fourth season in a row. The CAA's last team to win a round of 64 game was VCU in 2012. The last time a current CAA member won a game was UNC Wilmington in 2002.
CUSA sent two teams to the NIT, with Middle Tennessee a No. 1 seed and Western Kentucky reaching the Final Four. The CAA sent zero teams.
CUSA had two teams in the CBI/CIT. The CAA, zero.

The fourth-best CUSA team beat Wichita State and advanced to the NCAA second round. The third-best team CUSA team (at least by conference standings) went to the NIT Final Four. The second-best CAA team stayed at home just like Chicago State, Longwood, and UMES.

But sure. CAA is tops, this I know, for RPI tells me so.
04-25-2018 02:01 PM
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Post: #60
RE: 2018-2019 MBB Schedule
(04-25-2018 01:31 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 11:02 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 10:30 AM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(04-25-2018 10:18 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(04-24-2018 02:58 PM)odu09 Wrote:  I don't think anyone at ODU doesn't want to play Cinci. Why would Cinci put ODU on the schedule? The argument you just used against UMES is the same argument schools like Cinci use on us.

Cincy, Memphis and UConn are strange ones because their basketball programs are so much better than the rest of the AAC. They really don't fit in that conference. If you leave them out, ODU would do well to schedule any of the rest of the AAC because those teams will automatically have a higher RPI than UMES etc simply by playing those top three (and WSU). We should be scheduling as many AAC, A10, MVC teams as possible, with a few OVC, SBC, MEAC, CAA thrown in.

What makes you think they're not? Scheduling isn't like going to the supermarket and picking out what you want; both teams need to be equally interested and they have to agree on the terms of the games. ODU routinely plays multiple A-10 teams every year and will have at least three this coming season (VCU, Richmond, St. Joseph's). Just because every game isn't tailor-made for ESPN doesn't mean they're not trying to construct a good schedule.

And people keep pointing to UMES (or similar opponents) as being beneath ODU and/or a useless game. Well last year UMES played, among others, Maryland, Georgetown, St. Bonaventure, Virginia Tech, Creighton and Iowa State. And yet somehow they manage to overcome the indignity of playing them to still be considered strong basketball programs.

Schools like UMES serve a purpose in the early part of the season for stronger programs. Backups get more run. Coaches experiment with lineups and defenses. Fans get an easy win. Pretty much everybody plays bodybag games. That's the nature of the beast. And yet every time a game that doesn't meet our lofty approval gets scheduled, some people around here throw temper tantrums about how ODU doesn't care about the quality of the program and that it's not showing ambition or that it's living off low-hanging fruit.

The funny thing is that despite the wailing and gnashing of teeth that traditionally accompany the release of the basketball schedule, ODU usually has one of the better OOCs in CUSA OR the mighty and sacrosanct CAA.

The schools you mentioned that also play UMES are able to absorb the rpi hit because they play tough, respected teams in conference. We play too many teams comparable to UMES in conference to have that luxury. Of course, all of this is moot until we can beat MTSU and WKU.

ODU played four games over which people wrung (wranged? wringed?) their hands: Fairfield (late sub for the fallen-through St. Bonaventure deal), Norfolk State (cross-town thing that may or may not be a thing going forward), Bowling Green (which isn't actually a low-major being in the MAC, they just sucked this year) and the mighty marauders of Princess Anne, Maryland. The way people go about you'd think that they played nothing but garbage in the OOC, but my guess is people are really upset that ODU didn't have a sexy game on the schedule (it also didn't help that VCU and Richmond went titties up last season and none of the CAA opponents did squat).

This notion that ODU (or ANYONE) is going to play most if not all of their 13 OOC games against teams with double-digit RPIs is not reasonable. Unless you're Texas Southern and you're willing to crater your home schedule to play-for-pay and see the world.

ODU's Schedule sucked last year, period. (Was Towson or Dayton our best win? I forget.)

Forget having all of our schedule against double-digit RPIs. I don't think we had any. 2 or 3 would be nice.

Granted, we don't always know how particular teams are going to perform year after year, but we pretty much know who is not going to.
04-25-2018 02:03 PM
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