(03-14-2018 03:15 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 11:51 AM)Tigx Wrote:  FlyingTiger, just admit you were wrong and move on. God, you're stubborn. The call option would transfer to Kaplan, so the local owners would retain the option to purchase at the 2012 price if Kaplan wanted to move the team. Which the local owners would do. And the link to the Hangtime blog says nothing about local investors wanting a new lease.

Team isn't leaving anytime soon, at least until 2027.

Just admit you are wrong.

The option to purchase at the 2012 price only applys if Pera or Kaplan are owners. Kaplan can sell to a Seattle ownership group. They could move the team.

100%, absolutely wrong. Can you not read?

The Call feature transfers to the new buyer. ANY NEW BUYER. End of story.

Do you not understand what the Call is? How come everyone else on this thread understands this, but not you. These multiple layers of protections were built into the Pera deal. There is also another layer that lets the city/county buy the team if none of the local owners step up.

Team is not leaving before '27. Hate that you find this so hard to accept, but you need to stop, you look foolish.

(03-14-2018 03:55 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 03:15 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 11:51 AM)Tigx Wrote:  FlyingTiger, just admit you were wrong and move on. God, you're stubborn. The call option would transfer to Kaplan, so the local owners would retain the option to purchase at the 2012 price if Kaplan wanted to move the team. Which the local owners would do. And the link to the Hangtime blog says nothing about local investors wanting a new lease.

Team isn't leaving anytime soon, at least until 2027.

Just admit you are wrong.

The option to purchase at the 2012 price only applys if Pera or Kaplan are owners. Kaplan can sell to a Seattle ownership group. They could move the team.

100%, absolutely wrong. Can you not read?

The Call feature transfers to the new buyer. ANY NEW BUYER. End of story.

Do you not understand what the Call is? How come everyone else on this thread understands this, but not you. These multiple layers of protections were built into the Pera deal. There is also another layer that lets the city/county buy the team if none of the local owners step up.

Team is not leaving before '27. Hate that you find this so hard to accept, but you need to stop, you look foolish.

Fine. If this article is wrong, I'm wrong. [1]

[1] - http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2012/08/23...n-memphis/

For some reason, you don't trust it. I'll copy and paste the quote again for you.

Quote:If Pera were to sell the team to someone who wanted to move it, the local owners would have the right to match the deal and buy the team themselves.

I'll add this.

David Bonderman will be the likely owner of the new Seattle franchise.

David Bonderman's TPG Capital and Steven Kaplan's Oaktree Capital Management bought a home builder called Taylor Morrison Home Corporation a few years ago. So let's not act like they don't know each other.

So let's hope Kaplan really can't sell the team to his buddy Bonderman.

But you know what? You are right!!! I'll trust you.

And no. Local money couldn't outbid Silver Lake Partners and TPG Capital if it came to it.

I'll add again. Southeastern couldn't outbid Silver Lake on Dell. Why do you think they could for the Grizzles?

I give up. But Staley Cates or Pitt Hyde or JT or any of the local owners don't have to have all the money themselves. They just need to lead the group to buy out Pera/Kaplan at the 2012 price. So they don't need to outbid anybody.

Btw, here is the ownership group. Any of the local owners could put a bid together, if it ever came to that:

Robert Pera $45 million/25.6%
SKMG LLC (Steve Kaplan group) $25 million/14.22%
Bridge Sports LLC (Daniel Straus group) $25 million/14.22%
Staley Cates $8.5 million/4.84%
Pitt Hyde $8.5 million/4.84%
Hand Family Hoops LP $5 million/2.84%
Elliot Perry $5 million/2.84%
Edward Dobbs $5 million/2.84%
Ashley Manning $5 million/2.84%
Bullish Bears LLC (Michael Wharton group) $5 million/2.84%
Joe Nicosia $5 million/2.84%
Billy Orgel $5 million/2.84%
Michael Savit $5 million/2.84%
Tennman Sports, LLC (Justin Timberlake group) $5 million/2.84%
CFR Memphis LLC $3 million/1.71%
Bill Rhodes $3 million/1.71%
Duncan Williams $2.5 million/1.42%
Anfernee Hardaway $2.5 million/1.42%
Bear Cub LLC (Doug Edwards group) $2.5 million/1.42%
Pace Cooper $2 million/1.14%
Wilson Bros. LLC $2 million/1.14%
Al Gosset $1 million/.57%
Harold Ford Jr. $250,000/.14%

(03-14-2018 03:55 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 03:15 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 11:51 AM)Tigx Wrote:  FlyingTiger, just admit you were wrong and move on. God, you're stubborn. The call option would transfer to Kaplan, so the local owners would retain the option to purchase at the 2012 price if Kaplan wanted to move the team. Which the local owners would do. And the link to the Hangtime blog says nothing about local investors wanting a new lease.

Team isn't leaving anytime soon, at least until 2027.

Just admit you are wrong.

The option to purchase at the 2012 price only applys if Pera or Kaplan are owners. Kaplan can sell to a Seattle ownership group. They could move the team.

100%, absolutely wrong. Can you not read?

The Call feature transfers to the new buyer. ANY NEW BUYER. End of story.

Do you not understand what the Call is? How come everyone else on this thread understands this, but not you. These multiple layers of protections were built into the Pera deal. There is also another layer that lets the city/county buy the team if none of the local owners step up.

Team is not leaving before '27. Hate that you find this so hard to accept, but you need to stop, you look foolish.

Do you actually believe that the NBA owners would vote to allow the team to be purchased by the city/county??? Not likely. Most leagues shy away from government ownership of teams.

Dan Issel and his group have already raised $1.4B in an attempt to gain an NBA team for Louisville.

Some do not want to acknowledge that any sale would need to be approved by NBA owners. All NBA has to do if they wanted team moved is to not approve any buyer that would keep team in city.

(03-14-2018 08:43 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 03:55 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 03:15 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 11:51 AM)Tigx Wrote:  FlyingTiger, just admit you were wrong and move on. God, you're stubborn. The call option would transfer to Kaplan, so the local owners would retain the option to purchase at the 2012 price if Kaplan wanted to move the team. Which the local owners would do. And the link to the Hangtime blog says nothing about local investors wanting a new lease.

Team isn't leaving anytime soon, at least until 2027.

Just admit you are wrong.

The option to purchase at the 2012 price only applys if Pera or Kaplan are owners. Kaplan can sell to a Seattle ownership group. They could move the team.

100%, absolutely wrong. Can you not read?

The Call feature transfers to the new buyer. ANY NEW BUYER. End of story.

Do you not understand what the Call is? How come everyone else on this thread understands this, but not you. These multiple layers of protections were built into the Pera deal. There is also another layer that lets the city/county buy the team if none of the local owners step up.

Team is not leaving before '27. Hate that you find this so hard to accept, but you need to stop, you look foolish.

Do you actually believe that the NBA owners would vote to allow the team to be purchased by the city/county??? Not likely. Most leagues shy away from government ownership of teams.

Dan Issel and his group have already raised $1.4B in an attempt to gain an NBA team for Louisville.

Some do not want to acknowledge that any sale would need to be approved by NBA owners. All NBA has to do if they wanted team moved is to not approve any buyer that would keep team in city.

I can't decide if you are more Obtuse or miserable - both are very strong with you.

(03-14-2018 08:43 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 03:55 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 03:15 PM)FlyingTiger2016 Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 11:51 AM)Tigx Wrote:  FlyingTiger, just admit you were wrong and move on. God, you're stubborn. The call option would transfer to Kaplan, so the local owners would retain the option to purchase at the 2012 price if Kaplan wanted to move the team. Which the local owners would do. And the link to the Hangtime blog says nothing about local investors wanting a new lease.

Team isn't leaving anytime soon, at least until 2027.

Just admit you are wrong.

The option to purchase at the 2012 price only applys if Pera or Kaplan are owners. Kaplan can sell to a Seattle ownership group. They could move the team.

100%, absolutely wrong. Can you not read?

The Call feature transfers to the new buyer. ANY NEW BUYER. End of story.

Do you not understand what the Call is? How come everyone else on this thread understands this, but not you. These multiple layers of protections were built into the Pera deal. There is also another layer that lets the city/county buy the team if none of the local owners step up.

Team is not leaving before '27. Hate that you find this so hard to accept, but you need to stop, you look foolish.

Do you actually believe that the NBA owners would vote to allow the team to be purchased by the city/county??? Not likely. Most leagues shy away from government ownership of teams.

Some do not want to acknowledge that any sale would need to be approved by NBA owners. All NBA has to do if they wanted team moved is to not approve any buyer that would keep team in city.

Nascar guy, you don't get it. This is all in the contract that Pera signed in '12. That the NBA and David Stern helped negotiate. Your or my opinion has zero to do with it. And the local buyers already own a % of the team, getting NBA approval would be close to automatic.

City/County temporarily buying the team is like the 5th keep-the-team-in-Memphis protection signed into the 2012 deal. You've been running around on all these threads spewing this lease ends in '21 BS, and you don't understand the deal in place. 100% safe until 2027.

Silver likes the team in Memphis. If the league has a say, it'll say here no matter what the cost is.

(03-16-2018 10:58 AM)fishman6581 Wrote:  Silver likes the team in Memphis. If the league has a say, it'll say here no matter what the cost is.

David Bonderman is a minority owner of the Celtics whose is considered to be well respected in the establishment(Larger Markets) of the NBA. Silver and David Bonderman are super tight.

The Memphis/Seattle thing will be a small market versus large market proxy battle. The larger markets want to limit the control of the smaller markets. The smaller markets want expansion which will increase their power, and bring about greater revenue sharing in the future. The players association favors expansion.

I'm sure Memphis has people in there corner. But if anyone tells you they absolutely know how this will play out. They are lying to you.

I've taken criticism from you people because you don't want to hear that the risk of moving exists.

I'm 80% sure that the team will stay in Memphis until 2027. But if you ignore the rumblings out of Boston, then you are willfully ignorant.

TPG Capital(Bonderman's firm), Silver Lake, Oaktree Capital Management(Kaplan's firm), and Kohlberg Kravis Roberts, Bain Capital are all sharks.

Local ownership couldn't stop them from buying team if it came to it. No one could. These dudes are the titans of leverage buyouts. They buy entire companies, much larger than any NBA team.

Silver Lake has already put $100M in Oak View Group, the new owner of KeyArena. [1] They are building up a war chest.

We 100% do not want Kaplan to own the team.

[1] - https://www.wsj.com/articles/silver-lake...1520773200

FlyingTiger, if your position is that Seattle will have an NBA team in the next decade, then I am in agreement.

Could be a 2-team expansion, so the NBA owners can cash in on these high team valuations. Or could be relocation - New Orleans could be especially vulnerable if AD ever leaves.

I'm just saying it won't be the Grizzlies.

Just curious, what’s to stop FedEx buying the team? Are corporations even allowed to do such a thing?

(03-16-2018 02:12 PM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  Just curious, what’s to stop FedEx buying the team? Are corporations even allowed to do such a thing?

Anheuser-Busch owned the Cardinals for many years.

(03-16-2018 11:56 AM)Tigx Wrote:  FlyingTiger, if your position is that Seattle will have an NBA team in the next decade, then I am in agreement.

Could be a 2-team expansion, so the NBA owners can cash in on these high team valuations. Or could be relocation - New Orleans could be especially vulnerable if AD ever leaves.

I'm just saying it won't be the Grizzlies.

New Orleans will be in Seattle before the Grizzlies.

And their owner just died. The owner who only bought the team to keep it in New Orleans.

I think the NBA will expand to Seattle and Louisville/Norfolk/Kansas City/Vegas (Only if Golden Knights owner buys it)/Mexico City/Montreal (Only if Canadian owners buys it).

Memphis built a stadium for the NBA. New Orleans had a stadium that wasn't as plush.

(03-16-2018 02:12 PM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  Just curious, what’s to stop FedEx buying the team? Are corporations even allowed to do such a thing?

The stockholders.

Fred Smith doesn't have that much control of the company that he could do that.

(03-14-2018 04:28 PM)Tigx Wrote:  I give up. But Staley Cates or Pitt Hyde or JT or any of the local owners don't have to have all the money themselves. They just need to lead the group to buy out Pera/Kaplan at the 2012 price. So they don't need to outbid anybody.

Btw, here is the ownership group. Any of the local owners could put a bid together, if it ever came to that:

Robert Pera $45 million/25.6%
SKMG LLC (Steve Kaplan group) $25 million/14.22%
Bridge Sports LLC (Daniel Straus group) $25 million/14.22%
Staley Cates $8.5 million/4.84%
Pitt Hyde $8.5 million/4.84%
Hand Family Hoops LP $5 million/2.84%
Elliot Perry $5 million/2.84%
Edward Dobbs $5 million/2.84%
Ashley Manning $5 million/2.84%
Bullish Bears LLC (Michael Wharton group) $5 million/2.84%
Joe Nicosia $5 million/2.84%
Billy Orgel $5 million/2.84%
Michael Savit $5 million/2.84%
Tennman Sports, LLC (Justin Timberlake group) $5 million/2.84%
CFR Memphis LLC $3 million/1.71%
Bill Rhodes $3 million/1.71%
Duncan Williams $2.5 million/1.42%
Anfernee Hardaway $2.5 million/1.42%
Bear Cub LLC (Doug Edwards group) $2.5 million/1.42%
Pace Cooper $2 million/1.14%
Wilson Bros. LLC $2 million/1.14%
Al Gosset $1 million/.57%
Harold Ford Jr. $250,000/.14%

No one really knows what Pitt Hyde and Staley and Andy Cates are really worth. Pitt Hyde sold his AutoZone shares a long time ago and he was already from a rich family before founding AutoZone. Staley Cates worked for a Memphis connected guy who owned an investment firm and that guy was worth something in the ten figures fifteen years ago.

The Memphis ownership group can finance the purchase. So they don't have to have a billion cash.

I have been critical of Hyde and Staley Cates over the years though. They were so shortsighted. They invested $70 million back in 2001 to get the team to Memphis. They didn't get along with Heisley and keep trying to screw him over. He was trying to screw them over. He tried to sell the team to them for $350 million back in 2004. They knew he bought the team for $200 million in 1999 and weren't willing. They tried to do the team that Michael Jordan ended up doing with Bob Johnson for the Charlotte Bobcats (Hornets) which was they would pay a small amount of cash, but assume all the team debt. Heisley refused and set up a cash call to force the locals to pay off a percentage of the team debt. They refused and lost their ownership position as well as their right of first refusal to purchase the team. Which led me to believe they never really wanted to own the team themselves.

I don't know of a Memphian who wants to just own an NBA franchise, but Memphis has enough super rich people that Pitt Hyde, Fred Smith, Henry Turley, and Billy Dunavant could come up with more than enough capital to buy the team.

But all those dudes are seventy or older.

Bill Laurie would be the perfect guy to save the day, but he got screwed over by David Stern because he bought the Grizzlies before Heisley and had his sale cancelled because the NBA refused to let him relocate the team to St. Louis. Laurie also wasn't the best owner of the NHL Blues either.