Hey guys, can you take union politics talk to the political board?

(03-11-2018 02:11 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 12:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 12:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Yeah, ******* unions and their workers rights and fair pay! Who needs weekends anyway? Not me!

IMO, unions have done a lot of good in society. But, particularly in the public sector, they have been a negative influence, because the "bargaining" isn't balanced. The union has a strident interest in benefiting its members (as it should) but on the other side, unlike in the private sector, the public officials don't have the same incentive to bargain hard as well, because they are playing with other people's (taxpayer) money and they don't face the market pressure to make a profit.

The result, particularly up north, has been overly-generous pay and especially retirement packages for public workers that are out of touch with what is happening in the private sector. E.g., the economy tanks, and private sector works face pay cuts and layoffs, but public sector workers roll right along. This is why so many states across the country face huge public pension liabilities that are squeezing the state budgets.

And as UConn is about to experience with Ollie, it is often very hard to get rid of bad public employees. Merely being an unproductive worker isn't enough, there are layers of "due process" protections that have been negotiated that make firing a bad public worker onerous, time consuming and expensive, so the path of least resistance is to just not do it. Again, this is because public organizations don't face the same market profit-imperative that private firms do.

That's the reason Franklin Roosevelt opposed unions in the public sector. He basically said that since governments represent the people, a public employees union would be bargaining against the interests of "the people", and he was right.

Ironic, because these days, public sector unions like AFSCME and the NEA are arguably the staunchest backers of liberal democrat politicians. It's a very cozy relationship: Democrat politicians vote for cushy pay and benefits for public workers, and public unions donate big money to Democrat politician campaigns, and the taxpayer loses.

Yeah look at all those public school teachers living high on the hog. Go walk through a public school teachers parking lot and tell me all those public union people are being paid well.

You know why they need a union? Because they need stability. You can't have your salary being changed every time someone new comes into office.

Dude, in the private sector, that happens all the time. It's normal - a new manager takes over and some people are booted out, demoted, reassigned, etc. Only in the public sector is that regarded as abnormal.

And you don't have situations like this there either, teachers getting paid by taxpayers not to work:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31494936/ns/us...qVkYujwZM0

That's the power that public unions have thanks to cozy relations with Democrat politicians up north.

All that said, I agree I hope Ollie wins his case, because, well ... it will be fun to see how UConn fans react, LOL.

No it doesn't! They might rearrange some personal, but they don't change your salary at a union job without a negotiation. What sector does a new boss (which would happen every four years no matter what) mean your salary is changing?

What planet do you hail from?

To people in the private sector, a change in personnel (layoffs) job title, promotion or demotion, are all highly possible if a new manager takes over an office.

Public sector union workers up north live in a cozy cocoon made for them by D-rat politicians. Did you even read the link i posted for you?

Public employees be they federal, state, city, county or anything else should not be allowed to unionize. They are being paid by tax dollars and are public servants.


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(03-11-2018 10:20 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I can’t believe Uconn allowed this to happen.
Either pay the man and move on, or face a financial/PR situation that could destroy the program.
This is unbelievable

Agreed. If a school wants to fire a coach, that's their prerogative, but suck it up and pay the coach the remaining value under his or her contract. They're trying to make Ollie look like a jerk for appealing, but c'mon, they are being the jerks for not paying what they owe.

(03-11-2018 10:56 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Public employees be they federal, state, city, county or anything else should not be allowed to unionize. They are being paid by tax dollars and are public servants.


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If Ollie were not in a Union, he could simply go straight to court to get this resolved. This is not a union vs. nonunion issue. Being in the union, he has to go through its agreed to dispute resolution process.

(03-11-2018 10:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 02:11 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 12:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  IMO, unions have done a lot of good in society. But, particularly in the public sector, they have been a negative influence, because the "bargaining" isn't balanced. The union has a strident interest in benefiting its members (as it should) but on the other side, unlike in the private sector, the public officials don't have the same incentive to bargain hard as well, because they are playing with other people's (taxpayer) money and they don't face the market pressure to make a profit.

The result, particularly up north, has been overly-generous pay and especially retirement packages for public workers that are out of touch with what is happening in the private sector. E.g., the economy tanks, and private sector works face pay cuts and layoffs, but public sector workers roll right along. This is why so many states across the country face huge public pension liabilities that are squeezing the state budgets.

And as UConn is about to experience with Ollie, it is often very hard to get rid of bad public employees. Merely being an unproductive worker isn't enough, there are layers of "due process" protections that have been negotiated that make firing a bad public worker onerous, time consuming and expensive, so the path of least resistance is to just not do it. Again, this is because public organizations don't face the same market profit-imperative that private firms do.

That's the reason Franklin Roosevelt opposed unions in the public sector. He basically said that since governments represent the people, a public employees union would be bargaining against the interests of "the people", and he was right.

Ironic, because these days, public sector unions like AFSCME and the NEA are arguably the staunchest backers of liberal democrat politicians. It's a very cozy relationship: Democrat politicians vote for cushy pay and benefits for public workers, and public unions donate big money to Democrat politician campaigns, and the taxpayer loses.

Yeah look at all those public school teachers living high on the hog. Go walk through a public school teachers parking lot and tell me all those public union people are being paid well.

You know why they need a union? Because they need stability. You can't have your salary being changed every time someone new comes into office.

Dude, in the private sector, that happens all the time. It's normal - a new manager takes over and some people are booted out, demoted, reassigned, etc. Only in the public sector is that regarded as abnormal.

And you don't have situations like this there either, teachers getting paid by taxpayers not to work:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31494936/ns/us...qVkYujwZM0

That's the power that public unions have thanks to cozy relations with Democrat politicians up north.

All that said, I agree I hope Ollie wins his case, because, well ... it will be fun to see how UConn fans react, LOL.

No it doesn't! They might rearrange some personal, but they don't change your salary at a union job without a negotiation. What sector does a new boss (which would happen every four years no matter what) mean your salary is changing?

What planet do you hail from?

To people in the private sector, a change in personnel (layoffs) job title, promotion or demotion, are all highly possible if a new manager takes over an office.

Public sector union workers up north live in a cozy cocoon made for them by D-rat politicians. Did you even read the link i posted for you?

This is all I need to hear. Enjoy your "right to work".

(03-12-2018 09:34 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:20 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I can’t believe Uconn allowed this to happen.
Either pay the man and move on, or face a financial/PR situation that could destroy the program.
This is unbelievable

Agreed. If a school wants to fire a coach, that's their prerogative, but suck it up and pay the coach the remaining value under his or her contract. They're trying to make Ollie look like a jerk for appealing, but c'mon, they are being the jerks for not paying what they owe.

In fairness to UConn, they aren't making "$30 million a year just for showing up" (as Geno put it) like Syracuse is. And they are already soaking their students about $35m a year in fees to keep up the appearance of a Power school, so there's no money left to tap. They have to save wherever they can.

And isn't UofL, who is making that big ACC bank, also trying to not pay Pitino?

Expect this to happen more and more often going forward. Unless you are AZ coach Miller, and your contract actually says you get MORE of a payout if you are fired for cause.

Talk about a dumb contract for a school.

(03-11-2018 10:56 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Public employees be they federal, state, city, county or anything else should not be allowed to unionize. They are being paid by tax dollars and are public servants.


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Uh so is any company that gets a government contract.

(03-12-2018 09:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 02:11 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 12:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  Yeah look at all those public school teachers living high on the hog. Go walk through a public school teachers parking lot and tell me all those public union people are being paid well.

You know why they need a union? Because they need stability. You can't have your salary being changed every time someone new comes into office.

Dude, in the private sector, that happens all the time. It's normal - a new manager takes over and some people are booted out, demoted, reassigned, etc. Only in the public sector is that regarded as abnormal.

And you don't have situations like this there either, teachers getting paid by taxpayers not to work:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31494936/ns/us...qVkYujwZM0

That's the power that public unions have thanks to cozy relations with Democrat politicians up north.

All that said, I agree I hope Ollie wins his case, because, well ... it will be fun to see how UConn fans react, LOL.

No it doesn't! They might rearrange some personal, but they don't change your salary at a union job without a negotiation. What sector does a new boss (which would happen every four years no matter what) mean your salary is changing?

What planet do you hail from?

To people in the private sector, a change in personnel (layoffs) job title, promotion or demotion, are all highly possible if a new manager takes over an office.

Public sector union workers up north live in a cozy cocoon made for them by D-rat politicians. Did you even read the link i posted for you?

This is all I need to hear. Enjoy your "right to work".

I assume you're from Jersey: The way i described it is the way it is for the vast majority of private sector Jersey employees too.

Thanks to cozy relations with politicians, which FDR warned against, unionized public workers up north have job protections far greater than what most employees up there have. Way more.

That's why NJ has a public pension unfunded debt of $90 Billion dollars:

https://whyy.org/articles/n-j-unfunded-p...-benefits/

(03-12-2018 09:49 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 09:34 AM)orangefan Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:20 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  I can’t believe Uconn allowed this to happen.
Either pay the man and move on, or face a financial/PR situation that could destroy the program.
This is unbelievable

Agreed. If a school wants to fire a coach, that's their prerogative, but suck it up and pay the coach the remaining value under his or her contract. They're trying to make Ollie look like a jerk for appealing, but c'mon, they are being the jerks for not paying what they owe.

In fairness to UConn, they aren't making "$30 million a year just for showing up" (as Geno put it) like Syracuse is. And they are already soaking their students about $35m a year in fees to keep up the appearance of a Power school, so there's no money left to tap. They have to save wherever they can.

And isn't UofL, who is making that big ACC bank, also trying to not pay Pitino?

Expect this to happen more and more often going forward. Unless you are AZ coach Miller, and your contract actually says you get MORE of a payout if you are fired for cause.

Talk about a dumb contract for a school.

Agreed. Actually I am surprised universities haven't caught on to this sooner, because this happens with professional services contract in other walks of life. A university, particularly a public university, has a fiduciary obligation to students, taxpayers and other stakeholders. It doesn't take a whole heck of a lot to find cause on any employee. In the end, UConn will end up settling out with Ollie for a negotiated amount of the buyout (unless they really have some dirt on him and it will be nothing at all). In the end, it will save money which is to the benefit of UConn, its students and alumni and the taxpayers of Connecticut.

(03-12-2018 11:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 09:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 02:11 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 12:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Dude, in the private sector, that happens all the time. It's normal - a new manager takes over and some people are booted out, demoted, reassigned, etc. Only in the public sector is that regarded as abnormal.

And you don't have situations like this there either, teachers getting paid by taxpayers not to work:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31494936/ns/us...qVkYujwZM0

That's the power that public unions have thanks to cozy relations with Democrat politicians up north.

All that said, I agree I hope Ollie wins his case, because, well ... it will be fun to see how UConn fans react, LOL.

No it doesn't! They might rearrange some personal, but they don't change your salary at a union job without a negotiation. What sector does a new boss (which would happen every four years no matter what) mean your salary is changing?

What planet do you hail from?

To people in the private sector, a change in personnel (layoffs) job title, promotion or demotion, are all highly possible if a new manager takes over an office.

Public sector union workers up north live in a cozy cocoon made for them by D-rat politicians. Did you even read the link i posted for you?

This is all I need to hear. Enjoy your "right to work".

I assume you're from Jersey: The way i described it is the way it is for the vast majority of private sector Jersey employees too.

Thanks to cozy relations with politicians, which FDR warned against, unionized public workers up north have job protections far greater than what most employees up there have. Way more.

That's why NJ has a public pension unfunded debt of $90 Billion dollars:

https://whyy.org/articles/n-j-unfunded-p...-benefits/

I work in the private sector, why are you talking to me like I don't?

So about UConn and Ollie... ?

(03-12-2018 01:12 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 11:56 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-12-2018 09:48 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 10:44 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 02:11 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  No it doesn't! They might rearrange some personal, but they don't change your salary at a union job without a negotiation. What sector does a new boss (which would happen every four years no matter what) mean your salary is changing?

What planet do you hail from?

To people in the private sector, a change in personnel (layoffs) job title, promotion or demotion, are all highly possible if a new manager takes over an office.

Public sector union workers up north live in a cozy cocoon made for them by D-rat politicians. Did you even read the link i posted for you?

This is all I need to hear. Enjoy your "right to work".

I assume you're from Jersey: The way i described it is the way it is for the vast majority of private sector Jersey employees too.

Thanks to cozy relations with politicians, which FDR warned against, unionized public workers up north have job protections far greater than what most employees up there have. Way more.

That's why NJ has a public pension unfunded debt of $90 Billion dollars:

https://whyy.org/articles/n-j-unfunded-p...-benefits/

I work in the private sector, why are you talking to me like I don't?

I'm not talking to you like you don't.

(03-12-2018 01:50 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  So about UConn and Ollie... ?

UConn and Ollie is going to be a mess for UConn, but honestly i think they realized that.

Far more important to them is to get UConn men's hoops back in the national conversation, and regardless of anything else, UConn will have a new coach next season.

So even a dragged-out dispute process with dirty laundry being aired, and a significant settlement amount, will in the end be worth it to UConn if the new coach revives UConn hoops. The agony of Ollie had to end, at whatever cost.

Just MO ...