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Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
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msm96wolf Offline
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Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...just-cause

What major basketball program in their right mind would ever agree to have union represented coach? Have to imagine the next UCONN coach will want that in his contract.
03-10-2018 09:35 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
If Ollie was winning, he would still be there, and the for cause thing would be ignored. They are pulling the same stunt CSU did with Eustacy.


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03-10-2018 09:38 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
And Pitt. But the problem or good thing depending on your perspective, you can't fire UNION people no matter how incompetent or corrupt without have to go through these headaches. Then again, I am from a right to work state. UCONN will have to publicly show the NCAA investigation which never goes well. You think someone would have read the contract to avoid such disclosures.
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2018 09:57 PM by msm96wolf.)
03-10-2018 09:56 PM
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Pervis_Griffith Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
It sure sounds like UConn is gonna have to pay Ollie his money.

Although the link is clearly his side of the story, it's hard to see him being fired NOW with cause. Had cause truly been available, UConn should have acted when that actually occurred, than wait until the end of the season.
03-10-2018 09:58 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-10-2018 09:38 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  If Ollie was winning, he would still be there, and the for cause thing would be ignored. They are pulling the same stunt CSU did with Eustacy.

Agreed. Can't prove it, but if UConn was 25-8 and headed for a #4 seed, no way would Ollie be getting fired today. We all saw this coming, including the part about escaping his contract.
03-10-2018 10:04 PM
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msm96wolf Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-10-2018 10:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-10-2018 09:38 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  If Ollie was winning, he would still be there, and the for cause thing would be ignored. They are pulling the same stunt CSU did with Eustacy.

Agreed. Can't prove it, but if UConn was 25-8 and headed for a #4 seed, no way would Ollie be getting fired today. We all saw this coming, including the part about escaping his contract.

Now Ollie gets to publicly show what the NCAA investigation is about air UCONN's dirty laundry in public. Or UCONN did not fire with cause and ensuring the next coach has a payout even with cause. Whoever handled this for UCONN needs fired but that person is probably union as well. 03-lmfao
03-10-2018 10:11 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-10-2018 10:11 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  
(03-10-2018 10:04 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-10-2018 09:38 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  If Ollie was winning, he would still be there, and the for cause thing would be ignored. They are pulling the same stunt CSU did with Eustacy.

Agreed. Can't prove it, but if UConn was 25-8 and headed for a #4 seed, no way would Ollie be getting fired today. We all saw this coming, including the part about escaping his contract.

Now Ollie gets to publicly show what the NCAA investigation is about air UCONN's dirty laundry in public. Or UCONN did not fire with cause and ensuring the next coach has a payout even with cause. Whoever handled this for UCONN needs fired but that person is probably union as well. 03-lmfao

Yes, that AAUP representation really adds a twist to this. It means the ultimate decision will likely be made by a neutral arbitrator who may not be sympathetic to UConn's desire to dump a bad coach and escape millions in payments on the grounds that the NCAA is merely 'investigating' aspects of his program.

My experience with these kinds of public sector union processes is that it's often very hard to totally cut an employee loose like that, you need real proof, and even then the general ethos of the system is frequently biased against leaving the employee totally empty handed. Often, you have to be convicted of an actual state-defined crime, and NCAA violations aren't necessarily real crimes.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2018 12:02 AM by quo vadis.)
03-10-2018 11:36 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
This is yet more evidence of incompetent leadership at UConn.
03-10-2018 11:42 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-10-2018 09:56 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  And Pitt. But the problem or good thing depending on your perspective, you can't fire UNION people no matter how incompetent or corrupt without have to go through these headaches. Then again, I am from a right to work state. UCONN will have to publicly show the NCAA investigation which never goes well. You think someone would have read the contract to avoid such disclosures.

Yeah, ******* unions and their workers rights and fair pay! Who needs weekends anyway? Not me!
03-11-2018 12:27 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-11-2018 12:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-10-2018 09:56 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  And Pitt. But the problem or good thing depending on your perspective, you can't fire UNION people no matter how incompetent or corrupt without have to go through these headaches. Then again, I am from a right to work state. UCONN will have to publicly show the NCAA investigation which never goes well. You think someone would have read the contract to avoid such disclosures.

Yeah, ******* unions and their workers rights and fair pay! Who needs weekends anyway? Not me!

IMO, unions have done a lot of good in society. But, particularly in the public sector, they have been a negative influence, because the "bargaining" isn't balanced. The union has a strident interest in benefiting its members (as it should) but on the other side, unlike in the private sector, the public officials don't have the same incentive to bargain hard as well, because they are playing with other people's (taxpayer) money and they don't face the market pressure to make a profit.

The result, particularly up north, has been overly-generous pay and especially retirement packages for public workers that are out of touch with what is happening in the private sector. E.g., the economy tanks, and private sector works face pay cuts and layoffs, but public sector workers roll right along. This is why so many states across the country face huge public pension liabilities that are squeezing the state budgets.

And as UConn is about to experience with Ollie, it is often very hard to get rid of bad public employees. Merely being an unproductive worker isn't enough, there are layers of "due process" protections that have been negotiated that make firing a bad public worker onerous, time consuming and expensive, so the path of least resistance is to just not do it. Again, this is because public organizations don't face the same market profit-imperative that private firms do.

That's the reason Franklin Roosevelt opposed unions in the public sector. He basically said that since governments represent the people, a public employees union would be bargaining against the interests of "the people", and he was right.

Ironic, because these days, public sector unions like AFSCME and the NEA are arguably the staunchest backers of liberal democrat politicians. It's a very cozy relationship: Democrat politicians vote for cushy pay and benefits for public workers, and public unions donate big money to Democrat politician campaigns, and the taxpayer loses.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2018 09:31 AM by quo vadis.)
03-11-2018 09:26 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
I can’t believe Uconn allowed this to happen.
Either pay the man and move on, or face a financial/PR situation that could destroy the program.
This is unbelievable
03-11-2018 10:20 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-11-2018 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 12:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-10-2018 09:56 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  And Pitt. But the problem or good thing depending on your perspective, you can't fire UNION people no matter how incompetent or corrupt without have to go through these headaches. Then again, I am from a right to work state. UCONN will have to publicly show the NCAA investigation which never goes well. You think someone would have read the contract to avoid such disclosures.

Yeah, ******* unions and their workers rights and fair pay! Who needs weekends anyway? Not me!

IMO, unions have done a lot of good in society. But, particularly in the public sector, they have been a negative influence, because the "bargaining" isn't balanced. The union has a strident interest in benefiting its members (as it should) but on the other side, unlike in the private sector, the public officials don't have the same incentive to bargain hard as well, because they are playing with other people's (taxpayer) money and they don't face the market pressure to make a profit.

The result, particularly up north, has been overly-generous pay and especially retirement packages for public workers that are out of touch with what is happening in the private sector. E.g., the economy tanks, and private sector works face pay cuts and layoffs, but public sector workers roll right along. This is why so many states across the country face huge public pension liabilities that are squeezing the state budgets.

And as UConn is about to experience with Ollie, it is often very hard to get rid of bad public employees. Merely being an unproductive worker isn't enough, there are layers of "due process" protections that have been negotiated that make firing a bad public worker onerous, time consuming and expensive, so the path of least resistance is to just not do it. Again, this is because public organizations don't face the same market profit-imperative that private firms do.

That's the reason Franklin Roosevelt opposed unions in the public sector. He basically said that since governments represent the people, a public employees union would be bargaining against the interests of "the people", and he was right.

Ironic, because these days, public sector unions like AFSCME and the NEA are arguably the staunchest backers of liberal democrat politicians. It's a very cozy relationship: Democrat politicians vote for cushy pay and benefits for public workers, and public unions donate big money to Democrat politician campaigns, and the taxpayer loses.

Yeah look at all those public school teachers living high on the hog. Go walk through a public school teachers parking lot and tell me all those public union people are being paid well.

You know why they need a union? Because they need stability. You can't have your salary being changed every time someone new comes into office.

Public workers have workers rights just like everyone else and they deserve to have their interests represented as an organized front. Most union workers go about their business and don't abuse the system. Very few actually are the F ups who make everyone else look bad.

Ollie has every right to use his union to appeal. UConn could have just fired him for being a bad coach. Pay him his buy out and let him go, BUT UConn tried to screw him out of the money he rightfully negotiated for. Thank god he has a union. Ollie deserves his buyout, its in his contract. This is perfect example of why unions are needed. A large wealthy entity is trying to screw out one of it's employees of what is owed to him.

Go Ollie, get every last cent out of those snakes!
03-11-2018 10:28 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #13
RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
Crazy how the pendulum has swung.
We went from letting a coach have their buyout despite wrongdoing to now it seems schools want to avoid a buyout at any cost possible by claiming cause.
03-11-2018 10:33 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-11-2018 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 12:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-10-2018 09:56 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  And Pitt. But the problem or good thing depending on your perspective, you can't fire UNION people no matter how incompetent or corrupt without have to go through these headaches. Then again, I am from a right to work state. UCONN will have to publicly show the NCAA investigation which never goes well. You think someone would have read the contract to avoid such disclosures.

Yeah, ******* unions and their workers rights and fair pay! Who needs weekends anyway? Not me!

IMO, unions have done a lot of good in society. But, particularly in the public sector, they have been a negative influence, because the "bargaining" isn't balanced. The union has a strident interest in benefiting its members (as it should) but on the other side, unlike in the private sector, the public officials don't have the same incentive to bargain hard as well, because they are playing with other people's (taxpayer) money and they don't face the market pressure to make a profit.

The result, particularly up north, has been overly-generous pay and especially retirement packages for public workers that are out of touch with what is happening in the private sector. E.g., the economy tanks, and private sector works face pay cuts and layoffs, but public sector workers roll right along. This is why so many states across the country face huge public pension liabilities that are squeezing the state budgets.

And as UConn is about to experience with Ollie, it is often very hard to get rid of bad public employees. Merely being an unproductive worker isn't enough, there are layers of "due process" protections that have been negotiated that make firing a bad public worker onerous, time consuming and expensive, so the path of least resistance is to just not do it. Again, this is because public organizations don't face the same market profit-imperative that private firms do.

That's the reason Franklin Roosevelt opposed unions in the public sector. He basically said that since governments represent the people, a public employees union would be bargaining against the interests of "the people", and he was right.

Ironic, because these days, public sector unions like AFSCME and the NEA are arguably the staunchest backers of liberal democrat politicians. It's a very cozy relationship: Democrat politicians vote for cushy pay and benefits for public workers, and public unions donate big money to Democrat politician campaigns, and the taxpayer loses.

Yeah look at all those public school teachers living high on the hog. Go walk through a public school teachers parking lot and tell me all those public union people are being paid well.

You know why they need a union? Because they need stability. You can't have your salary being changed every time someone new comes into office.

Public workers have workers rights just like everyone else and they deserve to have their interests represented as an organized front. Most union workers go about their business and don't abuse the system. Very few actually are the F ups who make everyone else look bad.

Ollie has every right to use his union to appeal. UConn could have just fired him for being a bad coach. Pay him his buy out and let him go, BUT UConn tried to screw him out of the money he rightfully negotiated for. Thank god he has a union. Ollie deserves his buyout, its in his contract. This is perfect example of why unions are needed. A large wealthy entity is trying to screw out one of it's employees of what is owed to him.

Go Ollie, get every last cent out of those snakes!

Co-sign.
03-11-2018 10:53 AM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
Does Ollie have a separate contract outside of the union contract with the school? If so, which one takes precedent? I would hope that Uconn would put something in the contract that said it took precedence over the union contract.
03-11-2018 11:14 AM
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msm96wolf Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-11-2018 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 12:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-10-2018 09:56 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  And Pitt. But the problem or good thing depending on your perspective, you can't fire UNION people no matter how incompetent or corrupt without have to go through these headaches. Then again, I am from a right to work state. UCONN will have to publicly show the NCAA investigation which never goes well. You think someone would have read the contract to avoid such disclosures.

Yeah, ******* unions and their workers rights and fair pay! Who needs weekends anyway? Not me!

IMO, unions have done a lot of good in society. But, particularly in the public sector, they have been a negative influence, because the "bargaining" isn't balanced. The union has a strident interest in benefiting its members (as it should) but on the other side, unlike in the private sector, the public officials don't have the same incentive to bargain hard as well, because they are playing with other people's (taxpayer) money and they don't face the market pressure to make a profit.

The result, particularly up north, has been overly-generous pay and especially retirement packages for public workers that are out of touch with what is happening in the private sector. E.g., the economy tanks, and private sector works face pay cuts and layoffs, but public sector workers roll right along. This is why so many states across the country face huge public pension liabilities that are squeezing the state budgets.

And as UConn is about to experience with Ollie, it is often very hard to get rid of bad public employees. Merely being an unproductive worker isn't enough, there are layers of "due process" protections that have been negotiated that make firing a bad public worker onerous, time consuming and expensive, so the path of least resistance is to just not do it. Again, this is because public organizations don't face the same market profit-imperative that private firms do.

That's the reason Franklin Roosevelt opposed unions in the public sector. He basically said that since governments represent the people, a public employees union would be bargaining against the interests of "the people", and he was right.

Ironic, because these days, public sector unions like AFSCME and the NEA are arguably the staunchest backers of liberal democrat politicians. It's a very cozy relationship: Democrat politicians vote for cushy pay and benefits for public workers, and public unions donate big money to Democrat politician campaigns, and the taxpayer loses.

Yeah look at all those public school teachers living high on the hog. Go walk through a public school teachers parking lot and tell me all those public union people are being paid well.

You know why they need a union? Because they need stability. You can't have your salary being changed every time someone new comes into office.

Public workers have workers rights just like everyone else and they deserve to have their interests represented as an organized front. Most union workers go about their business and don't abuse the system. Very few actually are the F ups who make everyone else look bad.

Ollie has every right to use his union to appeal. UConn could have just fired him for being a bad coach. Pay him his buy out and let him go, BUT UConn tried to screw him out of the money he rightfully negotiated for. Thank god he has a union. Ollie deserves his buyout, its in his contract. This is perfect example of why unions are needed. A large wealthy entity is trying to screw out one of it's employees of what is owed to him.

Go Ollie, get every last cent out of those snakes!

If you recall, I stated it depends on which said of your view was about unions if it was a good or bad thing. This should not turn into a union debate. There are pros and cons to both views. Also, look at where you live. NJ is a union state, NC is not. So there will be a different view of perceptions. Unions can help protect a valuable worker being unfairly treated and it can allow people who couldn't keep a job without union policies. I think it is fair to share, UCONN was not very bright in allowing this in what should be a professional contract that typically does not require or should include union rules. I say all the power to Ollie for using it, I have nothing against him for doing this.
03-11-2018 11:14 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
I'm sure Ollie's camp will point to his NCAA Public Recognition Award, given to teams in the top 10 percent of their sport in Academic Progress Rate (APR), as great support that argues his firing was for just cause. UConn Men's Basketball had three perfect APR scores in the past four years. With the APR issues that Calhoun left, I would find it hard to believe that Ollie's firing was just.

"Coach [Kevin] Ollie and his staff have built a culture in which academic success is a priority and an expectation of student-athletes in that program. This award marks a milestone in the history of our program." - Dave Benedict 5/9/17

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-men/...story.html
03-11-2018 11:18 AM
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Cyniclone Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
The only way that UConn comes out of this looking good is if Ollie did something really egregious that the school had no hand in. If they're doing this to negotiate the buyout down, or if they lose their just-cause argument, they signal to the world that a) their contracts are barely worth the paper on which they're printed and they'll do anything they can to get out of them, and/or b) they're doing this from a financial-hardship position, which is not the message you want to send to the P5 conferences that you still long to join.
03-11-2018 11:22 AM
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quo vadis Offline
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RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-11-2018 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 12:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-10-2018 09:56 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  And Pitt. But the problem or good thing depending on your perspective, you can't fire UNION people no matter how incompetent or corrupt without have to go through these headaches. Then again, I am from a right to work state. UCONN will have to publicly show the NCAA investigation which never goes well. You think someone would have read the contract to avoid such disclosures.

Yeah, ******* unions and their workers rights and fair pay! Who needs weekends anyway? Not me!

IMO, unions have done a lot of good in society. But, particularly in the public sector, they have been a negative influence, because the "bargaining" isn't balanced. The union has a strident interest in benefiting its members (as it should) but on the other side, unlike in the private sector, the public officials don't have the same incentive to bargain hard as well, because they are playing with other people's (taxpayer) money and they don't face the market pressure to make a profit.

The result, particularly up north, has been overly-generous pay and especially retirement packages for public workers that are out of touch with what is happening in the private sector. E.g., the economy tanks, and private sector works face pay cuts and layoffs, but public sector workers roll right along. This is why so many states across the country face huge public pension liabilities that are squeezing the state budgets.

And as UConn is about to experience with Ollie, it is often very hard to get rid of bad public employees. Merely being an unproductive worker isn't enough, there are layers of "due process" protections that have been negotiated that make firing a bad public worker onerous, time consuming and expensive, so the path of least resistance is to just not do it. Again, this is because public organizations don't face the same market profit-imperative that private firms do.

That's the reason Franklin Roosevelt opposed unions in the public sector. He basically said that since governments represent the people, a public employees union would be bargaining against the interests of "the people", and he was right.

Ironic, because these days, public sector unions like AFSCME and the NEA are arguably the staunchest backers of liberal democrat politicians. It's a very cozy relationship: Democrat politicians vote for cushy pay and benefits for public workers, and public unions donate big money to Democrat politician campaigns, and the taxpayer loses.

Yeah look at all those public school teachers living high on the hog. Go walk through a public school teachers parking lot and tell me all those public union people are being paid well.

You know why they need a union? Because they need stability. You can't have your salary being changed every time someone new comes into office.

Dude, in the private sector, that happens all the time. It's normal - a new manager takes over and some people are booted out, demoted, reassigned, etc. Only in the public sector is that regarded as abnormal.

And you don't have situations like this there either, teachers getting paid by taxpayers not to work:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31494936/ns/us...qVkYujwZM0

That's the power that public unions have thanks to cozy relations with Democrat politicians up north.

All that said, I agree I hope Ollie wins his case, because, well ... it will be fun to see how UConn fans react, LOL.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2018 12:20 PM by quo vadis.)
03-11-2018 12:18 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Apparently UCONN agreed to have a Union Coach, Ollie files grievance
(03-11-2018 12:18 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 09:26 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-11-2018 12:27 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-10-2018 09:56 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  And Pitt. But the problem or good thing depending on your perspective, you can't fire UNION people no matter how incompetent or corrupt without have to go through these headaches. Then again, I am from a right to work state. UCONN will have to publicly show the NCAA investigation which never goes well. You think someone would have read the contract to avoid such disclosures.

Yeah, ******* unions and their workers rights and fair pay! Who needs weekends anyway? Not me!

IMO, unions have done a lot of good in society. But, particularly in the public sector, they have been a negative influence, because the "bargaining" isn't balanced. The union has a strident interest in benefiting its members (as it should) but on the other side, unlike in the private sector, the public officials don't have the same incentive to bargain hard as well, because they are playing with other people's (taxpayer) money and they don't face the market pressure to make a profit.

The result, particularly up north, has been overly-generous pay and especially retirement packages for public workers that are out of touch with what is happening in the private sector. E.g., the economy tanks, and private sector works face pay cuts and layoffs, but public sector workers roll right along. This is why so many states across the country face huge public pension liabilities that are squeezing the state budgets.

And as UConn is about to experience with Ollie, it is often very hard to get rid of bad public employees. Merely being an unproductive worker isn't enough, there are layers of "due process" protections that have been negotiated that make firing a bad public worker onerous, time consuming and expensive, so the path of least resistance is to just not do it. Again, this is because public organizations don't face the same market profit-imperative that private firms do.

That's the reason Franklin Roosevelt opposed unions in the public sector. He basically said that since governments represent the people, a public employees union would be bargaining against the interests of "the people", and he was right.

Ironic, because these days, public sector unions like AFSCME and the NEA are arguably the staunchest backers of liberal democrat politicians. It's a very cozy relationship: Democrat politicians vote for cushy pay and benefits for public workers, and public unions donate big money to Democrat politician campaigns, and the taxpayer loses.

Yeah look at all those public school teachers living high on the hog. Go walk through a public school teachers parking lot and tell me all those public union people are being paid well.

You know why they need a union? Because they need stability. You can't have your salary being changed every time someone new comes into office.

Dude, in the private sector, that happens all the time. It's normal - a new manager takes over and some people are booted out, demoted, reassigned, etc. Only in the public sector is that regarded as abnormal.

And you don't have situations like this there either, teachers getting paid by taxpayers not to work:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/31494936/ns/us...qVkYujwZM0

That's the power that public unions have thanks to cozy relations with Democrat politicians up north.

All that said, I agree I hope Ollie wins his case, because, well ... it will be fun to see how UConn fans react, LOL.

No it doesn't! They might rearrange some personal, but they don't change your salary at a union job without a negotiation. What sector does a new boss (which would happen every four years no matter what) mean your salary is changing?

Yeah everyone knows those public school teachers got it made! They even get to buy their own supplies with their own money! How lucky of them with their cozy ties to the Dems. God these boards are hysterical when it comes to politics.
(This post was last modified: 03-11-2018 02:12 PM by RutgersGuy.)
03-11-2018 02:11 PM
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