The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Coaches try and pitch our successes, while not focusing on our disappointments to recruits. "Fans" make sure to highlight ONLY the disappointments and constantly call for the coach and AD to be fired. Coach can't land next level recruits because they've read a bunch of negative stuff about the program from the "fans" online. "Fans" complain that the coach can't land recruits good enough to get us to the NCAA tournament.

#rinse #repeat

Sent from my Pixel XL using CSNbbs mobile app

(06-01-2018 05:48 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Coaches try and pitch our successes, while not focusing on our disappointments to recruits. "Fans" make sure to highlight ONLY the disappointments and constantly call for the coach and AD to be fired. Coach can't land next level recruits because they've read a bunch of negative stuff about the program from the "fans" online. "Fans" complain that the coach can't land recruits good enough to get us to the NCAA tournament.

#rinse #repeat

Sent from my Pixel XL using CSNbbs mobile app

Proof please. Otherwise it's just venting what you are afraid might happen.

(05-31-2018 03:01 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 02:29 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Out of curiosity, what would it take for you to agree with us that Jones needs to go? Assuming no violations, etc. How many years would you be willing to go with 25 wins and no NCAAT if you were in charge?

1. Tough question. The thing is Jones has been here 5 years and 2 of them have been among the top 5-10 seasons we’ve had in the lst 3 decades.

2. If you told me we would find a coach that consistently got into the NCAAS, then cool, but what are the odds of that happening?

3. We’ve been pretty good over the past 4 years. No tourney sucks, but that isnt the only criteria I judge on. Obciously, if its clear we have little shot of a tourney with a particular coach, its time to move on, but we’ve had 1 recruiting cycle with Jones and we’ve somewhat addressed concerns over playing style. If you read almost any commentary outside of this board, it is positive about Jones.

[I added numbers to your post]

1. I don't really see how 2 of his years are among the top 5-10 seasons. I would give credit for one, when they were #25 for 6 days. I just don't think the number of wins should be the only metric either.

2. I don't know what the odds are of getting to the NCAAT with a new coach, but it seems to me we know what the odds are if nothing changes. It seems like we know what we have. At this point, I think I'd be ready to roll the dice. That's assuming we can afford more than $500k for a coach, and with our giant budget (biggest in conference) I would hope that is possible. If not, something is very wrong and we have bigger problems than basketball.

3. I agree that we've been "pretty good" for 4 years. I don't judge only on NCAAT appearances either. We were very close one year, 3 points away. I admit I would have more patience right now if we had won that champ game vs MTSU. I just think with all our resources and facilities (among the best in conference) we'd be doing better to make that hurdle. Speaking of recruiting, we only have 1 of the 2 star players from the recruiting class last year who barely played, and we lost our 2nd best player to transfer. It still feels like a net loss even if we add a juco big, but I suppose we will find out. It would truly be a shame for Caver, our best player, to go 4 years without the chance at the NCAAT.

(05-31-2018 08:40 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 08:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:01 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 02:29 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 02:21 PM)odu09 Wrote:  Finishing 2nd in the 15th best conference is not something I would brag about. Not to mention 2nd place doesn't mean anything when you can't beat team #3 when it matters most.

You should seriously reconsider insulting anyone's intelligence.

They have a point though. How many coaches have been fired after a 25-7 season with the season ending due to a loss to a team that was a top 60 team?

Out of curiosity, what would it take for you to agree with us that Jones needs to go? Assuming no violations, etc. How many years would you be willing to go with 25 wins and no NCAAT if you were in charge?

Tough question. The thing is Jones has been here 5 years and 2 of them have been among the top 5-10 seasons we’ve had in the lst 3 decades.

If you told me we would find a coach that consistently got into the NCAAS, then cool, but what are the odds of that happening?

We’ve been pretty good over the past 4 years. No tourney sucks, but that isnt the only criteria I judge on. Obciously, if its clear we have little shot of a tourney with a particular coach, its time to move on, but we’ve had 1 recruiting cycle with Jones and we’ve somewhat addressed concerns over playing style. If you read almost any commentary outside of this board, it is positive about Jones.

Agreed - there is an insignificant minority on this site calling for his head. And the unfortunate thing is that minority has made this site less about comradery as Monarch Nation and more about trying to p in your beer.

I would hope that just because we disagree here it doesn't mean I'm trying to piss in your beer. I think we are allowed to disagree, more meaningful discussion comes out this way.

(06-01-2018 05:48 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Coaches try and pitch our successes, while not focusing on our disappointments to recruits. "Fans" make sure to highlight ONLY the disappointments and constantly call for the coach and AD to be fired. Coach can't land next level recruits because they've read a bunch of negative stuff about the program from the "fans" online. "Fans" complain that the coach can't land recruits good enough to get us to the NCAA tournament.

#rinse #repeat

Sent from my Pixel XL using CSNbbs mobile app

I have a feeling Division 1 caliber athletes do not give one crap about what is said on message boards.

(06-01-2018 05:53 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 05:48 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Coaches try and pitch our successes, while not focusing on our disappointments to recruits. "Fans" make sure to highlight ONLY the disappointments and constantly call for the coach and AD to be fired. Coach can't land next level recruits because they've read a bunch of negative stuff about the program from the "fans" online. "Fans" complain that the coach can't land recruits good enough to get us to the NCAA tournament.

#rinse #repeat

Sent from my Pixel XL using CSNbbs mobile app

Proof please. Otherwise it's just venting what you are afraid might happen.

You want me to prove that recruits don't do their due diligence on the place they'll live, play, and study for 4-5 years? Or you want me to prove that 16-18 y/o don't know how to use the internet, or don't even think to Google search their options?

Sent from my Pixel XL using CSNbbs mobile app

(06-01-2018 06:23 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:01 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 02:29 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Out of curiosity, what would it take for you to agree with us that Jones needs to go? Assuming no violations, etc. How many years would you be willing to go with 25 wins and no NCAAT if you were in charge?

1. Tough question. The thing is Jones has been here 5 years and 2 of them have been among the top 5-10 seasons we’ve had in the lst 3 decades.

2. If you told me we would find a coach that consistently got into the NCAAS, then cool, but what are the odds of that happening?

3. We’ve been pretty good over the past 4 years. No tourney sucks, but that isnt the only criteria I judge on. Obciously, if its clear we have little shot of a tourney with a particular coach, its time to move on, but we’ve had 1 recruiting cycle with Jones and we’ve somewhat addressed concerns over playing style. If you read almost any commentary outside of this board, it is positive about Jones.

[I added numbers to your post]

1. I don't really see how 2 of his years are among the top 5-10 seasons. I would give credit for one, when they were #25 for 6 days. I just don't think the number of wins should be the only metric either.

2. I don't know what the odds are of getting to the NCAAT with a new coach, but it seems to me we know what the odds are if nothing changes. It seems like we know what we have. At this point, I think I'd be ready to roll the dice. That's assuming we can afford more than $500k for a coach, and with our giant budget (biggest in conference) I would hope that is possible. If not, something is very wrong and we have bigger problems than basketball.

3. I agree that we've been "pretty good" for 4 years. I don't judge only on NCAAT appearances either. We were very close one year, 3 points away. I admit I would have more patience right now if we had won that champ game vs MTSU. I just think with all our resources and facilities (among the best in conference) we'd be doing better to make that hurdle. Speaking of recruiting, we only have 1 of the 2 star players from the recruiting class last year who barely played, and we lost our 2nd best player to transfer. It still feels like a net loss even if we add a juco big, but I suppose we will find out. It would truly be a shame for Caver, our best player, to go 4 years without the chance at the NCAAT.

1. Not just number of wins. Number of wins/RPI/Ken Pom. People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season. Losing to top 60 teams, one of which went deep in the NiT, doesnt change that.

I dont believe we know what we have. I thought we were on upward swing and ready for a great season until Porter bailed. Now, there are major questions and next year even moreso without Caver/Stith. If we struggle this year and Godwin/Green/Reece/Ekizpe dont appear to be guys that can lead us to the NCAAT, I can see justification for a move.

(06-01-2018 06:26 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 08:40 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 08:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 03:01 PM)odu09 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 02:29 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  They have a point though. How many coaches have been fired after a 25-7 season with the season ending due to a loss to a team that was a top 60 team?

Out of curiosity, what would it take for you to agree with us that Jones needs to go? Assuming no violations, etc. How many years would you be willing to go with 25 wins and no NCAAT if you were in charge?

Tough question. The thing is Jones has been here 5 years and 2 of them have been among the top 5-10 seasons we’ve had in the lst 3 decades.

If you told me we would find a coach that consistently got into the NCAAS, then cool, but what are the odds of that happening?

We’ve been pretty good over the past 4 years. No tourney sucks, but that isnt the only criteria I judge on. Obciously, if its clear we have little shot of a tourney with a particular coach, its time to move on, but we’ve had 1 recruiting cycle with Jones and we’ve somewhat addressed concerns over playing style. If you read almost any commentary outside of this board, it is positive about Jones.

Agreed - there is an insignificant minority on this site calling for his head. And the unfortunate thing is that minority has made this site less about comradery as Monarch Nation and more about trying to p in your beer.

I would hope that just because we disagree here it doesn't mean I'm trying to piss in your beer. I think we are allowed to disagree, more meaningful discussion comes out this way.

I dont think he was referring to reasonable posters that support opinions, but some of the vendetta driven nonsense.

(05-31-2018 06:31 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 11:52 AM)DaBigBlue Wrote:  Finishing 2nd in a 14-team conference and Overall: 25 - 7 C-USA: 15 - 3
No one is on the hot seat, you guys are smarter than that.

Agreed - he is not on the hot seat. It’s debatable whether he should be, but he is most certainly not on the hot seat. I had hoped for a better tenure, but I will say Jones didn’t miss all those FTs and threes against WKU in the CUSA tournament - just like he didn’t hit Freeman’s “shot.”

Kind of a poor argument that absolves all responsibility. I mean, Pat Kennedy wasn't on the court committing turnovers, missing shots, turning the ball over, and playing poor defense during Towson's 2-year winless stretch either.

The last player that stepped up and led us to a big win was Trey Freeman. After 4 years full of close, disappointing losses in just about every big game where nobody steps up and we choke down the stretch every single time, you have to wonder what the problem is. At some point, one has to assume something is wrong in the psychology or the culture. Either that or JJ just happens to be among the unluckiest people in the world.

Recall, we even choked down the stretch in the Freeman game and blew something like a 10 point lead in the last 4 minutes.

(05-31-2018 06:58 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(05-31-2018 06:31 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  Jones didn’t miss all those FTs and threes against WKU in the CUSA tournament - just like he didn’t hit Freeman’s “shot.”

He did, however, tout himself as the guy who knew how to get us back into contention -- complete with weird introductory ads showing him emerging from a smoky silhouette saying "let's get it started."

I have enjoyed every season that JJ has coached for us. But every one of them has ended with me thinking that we coulda/shoulda done better. I am already looking forward to next season, especially if we land another promising journeyman big. But I am fully expecting it to end again in coulda/shoulda fashion.

That's good enough for me. I'm old and easily entertained. But I fully understand why it is not good enough for others.

I'd be more entertained if I had that dopamine flow going into the big games where I had some confidence that we had a good chance of pulling off a win. I was entertained in those MTSU and WKU games last year, but we all knew we were going to lose those games going in and that sort of takes the edge off and makes it more of a casual viewing and less of feeling like part of the game. It also takes the friendly smack talk and back and forth among fans away. I miss that aspect as well. I know that the lack of natural rivalries in this conference was going to reduce that anyway, but I don't even get into it with the VCU fans anymore. Kind of difficult to give them a hard time when you have nothing to back it up with and you seriously doubt you'll win.

Blaine certainly wasn't all rainbows and unicorns, I hated his hockey substitutions and I think he toyed around with his lineups and strategies too much against mediocre teams and I don't know what his problem was with the Patriot Center. I also think he "threw" some midseason games to teach his kids a lesson by exposing their weaknesses and that frustrated the hell out of me, but I do miss the aspect of having enough confidence to invest emotionally down the stretch when it really mattered. Now it is just numbness and, while still entertaining enough to keep up and attend games, it just isn't what it used to be.

(06-01-2018 06:27 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 05:48 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Coaches try and pitch our successes, while not focusing on our disappointments to recruits. "Fans" make sure to highlight ONLY the disappointments and constantly call for the coach and AD to be fired. Coach can't land next level recruits because they've read a bunch of negative stuff about the program from the "fans" online. "Fans" complain that the coach can't land recruits good enough to get us to the NCAA tournament.

#rinse #repeat

Sent from my Pixel XL using CSNbbs mobile app

I have a feeling Division 1 caliber athletes do not give one crap about what is said on message boards.

That's like saying, "I have a feeling that consumers do not give one crap about reviews of a product they're interested in purchasing on Amazon."

(06-01-2018 08:10 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 06:27 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 05:48 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Coaches try and pitch our successes, while not focusing on our disappointments to recruits. "Fans" make sure to highlight ONLY the disappointments and constantly call for the coach and AD to be fired. Coach can't land next level recruits because they've read a bunch of negative stuff about the program from the "fans" online. "Fans" complain that the coach can't land recruits good enough to get us to the NCAA tournament.

#rinse #repeat

Sent from my Pixel XL using CSNbbs mobile app

I have a feeling Division 1 caliber athletes do not give one crap about what is said on message boards.

That's like saying, "I have a feeling that consumers do not give one crap about reviews of a product they're interested in purchasing on Amazon."

No its not. None of us have been coached by Jeff Jones.

Gilesfan said "People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season."

I would wager that the 93, 94, 95, 97, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and probably '15 teams were all better than last season's team. Those are fairly consistent high quality teams for nearly 20 years. Not including the 70s and 80s which some would say were even better. Last season's team was good, but to me was more like the 99 ODU team that made the NIT and beat Seton Hall.

(06-01-2018 09:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Gilesfan said "People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season."

I would wager that the 93, 94, 95, 97, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and probably '15 teams were all better than last season's team. Those are fairly consistent high quality teams for nearly 20 years. Not including the 70s and 80s which some would say were even better. Last season's team was good, but to me was more like the 99 ODU team that made the NIT and beat Seton Hall.

Throughout ODU's history, we have owned W&M, at least been even with VCU, and made the NCAA's an average of once every 4 years.

I don't think it is unreasonable to get back to that standard.

(06-01-2018 09:34 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 09:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Gilesfan said "People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season."

I would wager that the 93, 94, 95, 97, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and probably '15 teams were all better than last season's team. Those are fairly consistent high quality teams for nearly 20 years. Not including the 70s and 80s which some would say were even better. Last season's team was good, but to me was more like the 99 ODU team that made the NIT and beat Seton Hall.

Throughout ODU's history, we have owned W&M, at least been even with VCU, and made the NCAA's an average of once every 4 years.

I don't think it is unreasonable to get back to that standard.

Exactly. No 4-year ODU player should ever graduate without going to the NCAA tournament at least once. We should also beat VCU close to 50% of the time considering they are our in-state arch-rival. That should be the standard. If we do better, it's over-achieving... which is great, and should happen occasionally. If we do worse, at least admit theres a problem and a real need for action to see improvement.

(06-01-2018 09:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Gilesfan said "People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season."

I would wager that the 93, 94, 95, 97, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and probably '15 teams were all better than last season's team. Those are fairly consistent high quality teams for nearly 20 years. Not including the 70s and 80s which some would say were even better. Last season's team was good, but to me was more like the 99 ODU team that made the NIT and beat Seton Hall.

Unfortunately, it is hard to compare teams of 2 decades ago to today. I only have KenPom back to 2002 and RPI back to like 2011. The 2010-2011 seasons were obviously fantastic and probably two of the best, if not the best teams we've ever had. Our season this past year is very similar in numbers to 2005, 2007, and 2015 based on KenPom numbers.

93
94
95
97
05-73
07-64
10-37
11-48,29
15-70,45
18-64,72


Based on simple rating----certainly not perfect (but only one i have that includes all seasons), here is how they rank:

2010-11.39
1986-9.68
2018 -9.27
2011-9.03
2003-7.83
2015- 7.68
2006-7.62
1994-6.37
2005-5.97
1995-4.08
1997-3.73

(06-01-2018 08:10 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 06:27 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 05:48 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Coaches try and pitch our successes, while not focusing on our disappointments to recruits. "Fans" make sure to highlight ONLY the disappointments and constantly call for the coach and AD to be fired. Coach can't land next level recruits because they've read a bunch of negative stuff about the program from the "fans" online. "Fans" complain that the coach can't land recruits good enough to get us to the NCAA tournament.

#rinse #repeat

Sent from my Pixel XL using CSNbbs mobile app

I have a feeling Division 1 caliber athletes do not give one crap about what is said on message boards.

That's like saying, "I have a feeling that consumers do not give one crap about reviews of a product they're interested in purchasing on Amazon."

I really hope this is just a poor attempt at sarcasm. Otherwise this is one of the worst comparisons I have ever read on here.

(06-01-2018 10:01 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 09:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Gilesfan said "People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season."

I would wager that the 93, 94, 95, 97, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and probably '15 teams were all better than last season's team. Those are fairly consistent high quality teams for nearly 20 years. Not including the 70s and 80s which some would say were even better. Last season's team was good, but to me was more like the 99 ODU team that made the NIT and beat Seton Hall.

Unfortunately, it is hard to compare teams of 2 decades ago to today. I only have KenPom back to 2002 and RPI back to like 2011. The 2010-2011 seasons were obviously fantastic and probably two of the best, if not the best teams we've ever had. Our season this past year is very similar in numbers to 2005, 2007, and 2015 based on KenPom numbers.

93
94
95
97
05-73
07-64
10-37
11-48,29
15-70,45
18-64,72


Based on simple rating----certainly not perfect (but only one i have that includes all seasons), here is how they rank:

2010-11.39
1986-9.68
2018 -9.27
2011-9.03
2003-7.83
2015- 7.68
2006-7.62
1994-6.37
2005-5.97
1995-4.08
1997-3.73

I'm not sure what any of these formulas include, but we must have gotten a lot of mileage over our Marshall wins in 2018, because we literally beat nobody who was any good. At least we had some decent wins in 2015.

(06-01-2018 10:43 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 10:01 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-01-2018 09:27 AM)monarx Wrote:  Gilesfan said "People have this assumption that we’ve had a lot of great basketball years but we have not. We had good years back in 70s and we had a 4-5 year stretch under Taylor that was excellent. Outside of that, last year was better than almost any other season."

I would wager that the 93, 94, 95, 97, 05, 06, 07, 10, 11, and probably '15 teams were all better than last season's team. Those are fairly consistent high quality teams for nearly 20 years. Not including the 70s and 80s which some would say were even better. Last season's team was good, but to me was more like the 99 ODU team that made the NIT and beat Seton Hall.

Unfortunately, it is hard to compare teams of 2 decades ago to today. I only have KenPom back to 2002 and RPI back to like 2011. The 2010-2011 seasons were obviously fantastic and probably two of the best, if not the best teams we've ever had. Our season this past year is very similar in numbers to 2005, 2007, and 2015 based on KenPom numbers.

93
94
95
97
05-73
07-64
10-37
11-48,29
15-70,45
18-64,72


Based on simple rating----certainly not perfect (but only one i have that includes all seasons), here is how they rank:

2010-11.39
1986-9.68
2018 -9.27
2011-9.03
2003-7.83
2015- 7.68
2006-7.62
1994-6.37
2005-5.97
1995-4.08
1997-3.73

I'm not sure what any of these formulas include, but we must have gotten a lot of mileage over our Marshall wins in 2018, because we literally beat nobody who was any good. At least we had some decent wins in 2015.

It is because we had a lot of blow out wins (against bad teams) whereas historically (under both JJ and BT) we have tended to play in closer games. The margin of loss/victory metric is garbage.

In 2015, we had wins vs. 21, 53, 64, 65, but also losses to 114, 152 (2), 122, 232.

Our worst loss last year was to a 134 (RPI) in state rival on the road. We lost a heartbreaker to 93 on the road. OUr other 5 losses were to top 50 teams. (all but 2 were tight until the end)

Its not hard to see that last years team was pretty darn good. Its deliberately obtuse to only focus on "how many good wins we had" when you have a seasons worth of data showing we pretty much blew out the bad teams and beat almost everyone we should have beaten and were very competitive against top 50 teams. Its clear the team was a borderline NCAA team (50-70ish range).