(03-10-2018 06:00 AM)mrjoolius Wrote:  All great ideas from a mid major prospective. Problem is, from a money making and powers that be prospective, the mid majors don't even have a seat at the table. You'd have to have ncaa leadership truly care about balancing the field, while at the same time not worrying about some of the profits from prominent members. I can't see it happening.

Meanwhile, the mid-majors are happy to go along because they get their cut of the money the big boys make that they wouldn't get if they either walked away or made too much noise.

(03-10-2018 02:35 AM)FUATT Wrote:  1. Limit at-large bids to teams with winning conference records. If you can't do that or win your conference tournament you shouldn't be in the NCAA tournament anyway. Half of your games are home. If you can't even defend your home court why be rewarded with a bid?

That needs to be modified. In 2016-2017, only 2 out of 10 Missouri Valley teams were above .500 in conference. Your proposal could give 2 or 3 Big 12 teams and 5 or 6 Big East teams or vice versa depending on the distribution of conference wins. I picked those conferences because they both have 10 teams. If Team X went 8-10 or 9-9 in one of the top six conferences in Team Y went 10-8 or 11-7 in one of the top six conferences, that doesn't guarantee which team is better. What would be better is to make a percent limit. With a 60% limit, the ACC could have 9, the SEC and Big Ten could have 8, the Pac-12 could have 7, and the Big 12 and Big East could have 6.

(03-10-2018 02:35 AM)FUATT Wrote:  A couple of things that could help the mid-majors chances -

1. Limit at-large bids to teams with winning conference records. If you can't do that or win your conference tournament you shouldn't be in the NCAA tournament anyway. Half of your games are home. If you can't even defend your home court why be rewarded with a bid?

2. Provide more incentive for playing non conference games on the road. For example, a point system that gives 3 points for a road win and 1 point for a home court win. If Syracuse wants to play seven mid-majors at home, fine. They win all seven and get 7 points. If a Notre Dame decides to play three at home and four on the road and wins the home games but splits the road games they lose two but still get 9 points. Big win-win for the mid-majors. Win and get a prestigious win. Lose and you still get increased fan interest and attendance. And P5 fans often aren't happy with a lot of mid-major games at home anyway.

You can include bonus points for playing higher rated teams both home and away too.

This still wouldnt help the mid majors. This is looked at as a solution to help the mids, but reality is it means the power conferences would just play each other OOC on the road. More ACC/Big10 or SEC/Big12 type challenges so that they play road games, but against teams they split the pie with. It would not cause your teams to play at mids.

Unfortunately there really is no way to force them to play mids with the exception of accidentally playing them on a neutral floor in those early season tournaments. The money is too large and the selections are becoming too obvious, that i think the time has come to either forcefully limit number of teams from a conference or start limiting based on success (i.e. must have a winning or .500 record on conference to even be eligible) or the mids need to come together and give the majors what they want and break away and have their own tournament. I am pretty sure they could land a decent tv deal for such a tournament once you rip away the madness aspect of main tournament, since it would just be power conferences playing each other.

Mid majors could get rid of conference tourneys and avoid having dominant teams lose their spot due to upsets. That won't happen.

(03-12-2018 09:10 AM)Rocco Wrote:  Mid majors could get rid of conference tourneys and avoid having dominant teams lose their spot due to upsets. That won't happen.

Exactly. They make too much money off of the conference tournaments to give them up. Heck even the Ivy finally gave in and have a small tournament now (though its only the top 4).

Regarding tournaments and attendance, I was curious for comparison:

Championship game
CAA - 7945 (Tues night)
A10 - 7643 (Sun afternoon, 20,278 seat arena)
Southern - 5823 (Mon night)

Semis
CAA - 4099 (Mon night)
A10 - 8756 (Sat afternoon)
Southern - ? (Sun)

Quarters
CAA - 4672/2566 (Sun)
A10 - 7321(VCU/GMU)/7664(UR/GW) (Fri)
Southern - 4863/5431 (Sat)

Considering much of the travelling URI/St Joes/Davidson crowd at the A10 semis and final were there for the quarters, those quarterfinal numbers were not great considering the central location for the VCU/GMU/UR/GW fan bases.

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Also, considering VCU & UR both made it to the semis. Both fan bases, especially VCU, travel very well, so the numbers would have been GREATLY decreased if the Richmond schools had been knocked out. Local reports said at least 60% of the Semis crowd were dressed in Black/Gold.

(03-12-2018 01:31 PM)billymac Wrote:  Also, considering VCU & UR both made it to the semis. Both fan bases, especially VCU, travel very well, so the numbers would have been GREATLY decreased if the Richmond schools had been knocked out. Local reports said at least 60% of the Semis crowd were dressed in Black/Gold.

Both UR and VCU were knocked out in the quarterfinals. The semis was URI-SJU and SBU-DC. But yes, the A10 never gets the best attendance, except the years it was in Dayton. Back to Brooklyn next year for three more years.

For all this handwringing about post season bids etc; let’s focus on what Wm and Mary can do as opposed to they cannot do. It comes down to this. Let’s get serious about playing serious teams; wherever we can. Most teams worth a toot have NO interest in coming to Kaplan. That’s the reality. Some of November I think and all of December is practically dead in the burg basketball wise.
We need a concerted effort, something lacking up to now, to change this. We need to be much more aggressive in scheduling the money games. Beggars can’t be chosey. We can use the money and gain the status. Last year we got OSU and TCU. Short term goal should be doubling that 2 to 4. We should be working really hard to get into a Thanksgiving Tournament. Ms Huge can provide the leadership in this area. If we could get a couple dates in Texas, that would be all good.
Most of the scheduling for next year has been done. Let’s hope it’s not too late.

I have confidence that we will see improved scheduling next year and it will build over time under Ms. Huge's leadership.

I agree, and I think it just takes effort and some negotiation on her part. That would be new and welcomed. I'm really tired of us just giving up on hosting games with bigger names.

(03-13-2018 07:21 PM)LeadBolt Wrote:  I have confidence that we will see improved scheduling next year and it will build over time under Ms. Huge's leadership.

(03-13-2018 06:32 PM)SoCal Frank Wrote:  For all this handwringing about post season bids etc; let’s focus on what Wm and Mary can do as opposed to they cannot do. It comes down to this. Let’s get serious about playing serious teams; wherever we can. Most teams worth a toot have NO interest in coming to Kaplan. That’s the reality. Some of November I think and all of December is practically dead in the burg basketball wise.
We need a concerted effort, something lacking up to now, to change this. We need to be much more aggressive in scheduling the money games. Beggars can’t be chosey. We can use the money and gain the status. Last year we got OSU and TCU. Short term goal should be doubling that 2 to 4. We should be working really hard to get into a Thanksgiving Tournament. Ms Huge can provide the leadership in this area. If we could get a couple dates in Texas, that would be all good.
Most of the scheduling for next year has been done. Let’s hope it’s not too late.

Am persuaded W&M is doing most of what can be done within the present construct. One can only conclude the current NCAA Catch 22 for scheduling will remain in place— Mid-major strength of schedule doesn’t warrant at large NCAA/NIT bids because Mid-Majors haven’t won enough games that the Power 5 refused to schedule with Mid-Majors.

It’s hard for Mid-Major conference commissioners, ADs, and coaches to wave the BS flag on this for fear of putting their schools on double secret scheduling probation and/or aggravating future employers.

Given this reality, what alternatives are available to reward those schools being punished by the NCAA for complying with NCAA rules — not paying players under the table?

Since NCAA no longer allows Mid-Major at-large bids, maybe non Power 5 schools should form more eight team leagues?
Elsewhere it was mentioned ECAC should sponsor its own post season tournament.

It’s time to put on the thinking caps...Power 5 are scheduling more conference games and fewer non-conference, and the NCAA clearly can’t be embarrassed.

So....Innaugural 2019 Colonial Mid-Major Holiday Revolution at Kaplan on Friday-Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend. Eight team mid-major field with guaranteed two games Friday and Saturday (championship and consolation brackets with 4 games each day.) Championship and consolation championship on Sunday afternoon. Target Bucknell, Vermont, Harvard, Furman, MTSU, Liberty, Davidson and Tribe for first year. Natural tiered tournament sponsors in Williamsburg retail community. Find one major/lead sponsor and corral NBC SportsNetwork for televised rights. Williamsburg over Thanksgiving is every bit as attractive and convenient for fan draw as anywhere else. Yes, it gets busy if we are hosting a FCS playoff game, but let's presume we get a first round bye.

Why not be taking advantage of Williamsburg as a travel destination, and taking a lead in organizing mid-major focus, as well as, adding support/emphasis to the program as a top midmajor. I would bet there is a core base in the Williamsburg retirement community who would love to be a part of a volunteer army for the event. Use the event as a moneymaker for the program.

If there is argument for similar support for the women, then morph it into four team tournaments for both mens and womens teams of the four entries on Friday and Saturday.

If it's felt the event would have more top mid-major team interest as an exempt event, then like Charleston, we would only be able to participate once every four years. CAA teams could fill the other three years in the rotation.

Also, a resume builder for our new AD.

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First step is to try to take the CAA slot in November 2019 at the Charleston Classic run by ESPN. We have the chance for 2 probable Quad 1 wins on a neutral court for the senior year of Nathan, Matt and Justin.

We tried a Thanks giving tournament with Kaplan's money about a decade ago against poor opponents and lost money....too many competing family gatherings to get a good turnout. Better time would to time this around the CW Grand Illumination this first Sunday in December!

(03-14-2018 12:55 PM)wmmii Wrote:  We tried a Thanks giving tournament with Kaplan's money about a decade ago against poor opponents and lost money....too many competing family gatherings to get a good turnout. Better time would to time this around the CW Grand Illumination this first Sunday in December!

Hold on a second.

First, the current version of the Tribe is much more exciting to watch than the version from a decade ago.

Second, one idea is to bring in a good opponent for the Thanksgiving weekend, like ODU this year, if not better, for the reasons posted previously.

Third, and your memory may be better, was the Kaplan tournament a Thanksgiving weekend deal, or an earlier November deal? I'm going to look it up.

Edit: 2004- 11/19 and 11/20
2005- 11/18 and 11/19
2006- 12/1 and 12/2

Kaplan tournament never tried over Thanksgiving weekend.

Yes, the prior experience should be remembered. The issue is whether it can be improved, and tried again with improvements.

(03-13-2018 11:52 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  So....Innaugural 2019 Colonial Mid-Major Holiday Revolution at Kaplan on Friday-Sunday of Thanksgiving weekend. Eight team mid-major field with guaranteed two games Friday and Saturday (championship and consolation brackets with 4 games each day.) Championship and consolation championship on Sunday afternoon. Target Bucknell, Vermont, Harvard, Furman, MTSU, Liberty, Davidson and Tribe for first year. Natural tiered tournament sponsors in Williamsburg retail community. Find one major/lead sponsor and corral NBC SportsNetwork for televised rights. Williamsburg over Thanksgiving is every bit as attractive and convenient for fan draw as anywhere else. Yes, it gets busy if we are hosting a FCS playoff game, but let's presume we get a first round bye.

Why not be taking advantage of Williamsburg as a travel destination, and taking a lead in organizing mid-major focus, as well as, adding support/emphasis to the program as a top midmajor. I would bet there is a core base in the Williamsburg retirement community who would love to be a part of a volunteer army for the event. Use the event as a moneymaker for the program.

If there is argument for similar support for the women, then morph it into four team tournaments for both mens and womens teams of the four entries on Friday and Saturday.

If it's felt the event would have more top mid-major team interest as an exempt event, then like Charleston, we would only be able to participate once every four years. CAA teams could fill the other three years in the rotation.

Also, a resume builder for our new AD.

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This is the best post I’ve ever read. I couldn’t agree more.

Looks like year 1 we got Yale, Hartford, and Radford.

Year 2 was Holy Cross, High Point, and Maine

Year 3 was Cornell, VMI, and Jacksonville State.

Kinda disappointing slates, tbh. I think it would only work if we were able to bring in better mid major level opponents, I'm not really sure any power teams would come to a tournament we host.

Now is the perfect time to begin putting the Kaplan Invitational together. The Kaplan will be rocking. If anyone on this board has the ear of Ms Huge; give her this idea.

(03-14-2018 02:58 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Looks like year 1 we got Yale, Hartford, and Radford.

Year 2 was Holy Cross, High Point, and Maine

Year 3 was Cornell, VMI, and Jacksonville State.

Kinda disappointing slates, tbh. I think it would only work if we were able to bring in better mid major level opponents, I'm not really sure any power teams would come to a tournament we host.

Regarding the bolded statement above, usually when a P5 team goes to a mid-major location it is generally because of a relationship between members of the staffs of the schools involved or a historic rivalry.

(03-15-2018 06:36 AM)LeadBolt Wrote:  

(03-14-2018 02:58 PM)TDenverFan Wrote:  Looks like year 1 we got Yale, Hartford, and Radford.

Year 2 was Holy Cross, High Point, and Maine

Year 3 was Cornell, VMI, and Jacksonville State.

Kinda disappointing slates, tbh. I think it would only work if we were able to bring in better mid major level opponents, I'm not really sure any power teams would come to a tournament we host.

Regarding the bolded statement above, usually when a P5 team goes to a mid-major location it is generally because of a relationship between members of the staffs of the schools involved or a historic rivalry.

Like the example of Texas playing at vcu. Though I think that was tied into Shaka's release from his vcu contract