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Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-22-2018 01:06 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-22-2018 01:00 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(03-22-2018 12:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-22-2018 12:52 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(03-22-2018 12:45 PM)stever20 Wrote:  You do know there are 13 OOC games, so 6-7 are going to be theirs. While yes, there would be 4-5 dog games, there would also be 2-3 good OOC home games that would be for Fox.

...and so you're paying 12 teams for the same content you can get from 11 teams.

but given that you sub-license some stuff out(generally 2nd tier stuff)- you get a lot stronger programming.

Do you? 110 conference games versus 108 conference games plus 2-3 decent OOC games seems an awful lot like the same content, the second just gives a little more low-level stuff to sell, which you aren't making big money on anyway.

but then your top 1-2 teams aren't playing 2 games vs last 4 teams, and that helps you out as well. Makes the games you do have better. I mean look this year. Cincy instead of having to play Tulsa and Tulane a 2nd time got to play Wichita twice. I think TV folks like that a lot more.

You've got the analogy backward - neither Dayton nor Saint Louis (or Richmond or whoever) are spending entire seasons ranked and being discussed as options to prop up the Big East. They are "the last four teams" if the BE picks them up tomorrow. The best teams in the Big East already play each other twice, which seems to be a major negative in your opinion. Having to avoid the RPI grenades was/is an AAC problem.
03-22-2018 01:30 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
Dicky V still calling for UConn to the BE, especially now that Hurley will be new coach.
03-22-2018 04:28 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-22-2018 04:28 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Dicky V still calling for UConn to the BE, especially now that Hurley will be new coach.

Does Dicky V think UCONN should drop football, FCS or FBS Indy? It's easy for the dicky v's to forget football
03-22-2018 04:42 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-22-2018 04:42 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(03-22-2018 04:28 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  Dicky V still calling for UConn to the BE, especially now that Hurley will be new coach.

Does Dicky V think UCONN should drop football, FCS or FBS Indy? It's easy for the dicky v's to forget football

FBS indy
03-22-2018 04:43 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
So...does anyone think the Loyola could be a Big East Candidate? Sure the have DePaul U in Chicago, but it doesn't hurt to have 2 schools in a large city like Chicago. If the BE wanted 11 to move to 20 conference games, then they could be a good choice.
03-23-2018 09:26 AM
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Post: #86
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 09:26 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  So...does anyone think the Loyola could be a Big East Candidate? Sure the have DePaul U in Chicago, but it doesn't hurt to have 2 schools in a large city like Chicago. If the BE wanted 11 to move to 20 conference games, then they could be a good choice.

Personally, I think Val and the Presidents really need to take a step back and discuss how to leverage this run by Loyola against DePaul.

DePaul is in really bad shape, men's basketball-wise, at the moment. For those that do not know, there is a strong push to change their athletics leadership who, in the 15+ year tenure, has seen the following: three different AWFUL head coaching hires (Wainwright, Purnell and Leitao), over 230 losses, 11 losing seasons, 8 last-place finishes, .188 conference winning percentage, $13 million spent on coaching salaries, and $82.5 million spent on Wintrust Arena. Recently, it was asked about the lack of success the program has had, and the AD simply responded with, "We aren't looking to be the Jr. NBA. We are proud of our student-athletes."

Loyola has a greater academic ranking, a higher endowment, a larger number of undergraduates on campus, is in the same city/TV market (Chicago #3), and - now - has a much more prestigious and successful men's basketball program. They now have a huge national following and will most likely eclipse DePaul's attendance numbers next year (despite having a 4.5k arena and DePaul having a new stadium). However, DePaul had awful attendance figures this year.

There can be a strong argument made against DePaul that they are not serious about creating a competitive and successful men's basketball program. Keeping their current leadership structure in place is a large example of that. For many DePaul alumni in Chicago, it is both frustrating and depressing.
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2018 09:57 AM by GoldenWarrior11.)
03-23-2018 09:48 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
DePaul never joined the MCC, which included most of their rivals and current midwestern BE programs at one time, while Loyola was a member. They instead held out until the Great Midwest was formed and became C-USA. So in short, I highly doubt it.

*I seem to remember Loyola being mentioned for the A10, though.
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2018 09:53 AM by esayem.)
03-23-2018 09:49 AM
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Post: #88
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
Its tough to say on Leitao right now. He's taken them to their best year in 11 years in Ken Pom ratings, has a recruiting class coming in with 2 4 star players and is ranked in the top 50 and #4 in the Big East. They were far more competitive this year than in the past. To get rid of him now would be a huge mistake IMO.
03-23-2018 09:56 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 09:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Its tough to say on Leitao right now. He's taken them to their best year in 11 years in Ken Pom ratings, has a recruiting class coming in with 2 4 star players and is ranked in the top 50 and #4 in the Big East. They were far more competitive this year than in the past. To get rid of him now would be a huge mistake IMO.

What recruits are you referring to? They only have Diener (family connection) signed and he is a 3*. Tyger Campbell decommitted. Amari Bailey decommitted. DePaul's board is hearing that three players will soon announce their intent to transfer, including two starters. Leitao has averaged three conference wins per season. He finishes either 9th or 10th each year. They have also had at least 20 losses each season.

They hired Heirman to try and get more La Lumiere recruits to the program, and that has failed miserably.
03-23-2018 10:07 AM
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Post: #90
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 10:07 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 09:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Its tough to say on Leitao right now. He's taken them to their best year in 11 years in Ken Pom ratings, has a recruiting class coming in with 2 4 star players and is ranked in the top 50 and #4 in the Big East. They were far more competitive this year than in the past. To get rid of him now would be a huge mistake IMO.

What recruits are you referring to? They only have Diener (family connection) signed and he is a 3*. Tyger Campbell decommitted. Amari Bailey decommitted. DePaul's board is hearing that three players will soon announce their intent to transfer, including two starters. Leitao has averaged three conference wins per season. He finishes either 9th or 10th each year. They have also had at least 20 losses each season.

They hired Heirman to try and get more La Lumiere recruits to the program, and that has failed miserably.

I'm just going off of 247- who don't have any of those players.

Leitao didn't exactly inherit anything good at all.
03-23-2018 10:19 AM
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Post: #91
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 10:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 10:07 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 09:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Its tough to say on Leitao right now. He's taken them to their best year in 11 years in Ken Pom ratings, has a recruiting class coming in with 2 4 star players and is ranked in the top 50 and #4 in the Big East. They were far more competitive this year than in the past. To get rid of him now would be a huge mistake IMO.

What recruits are you referring to? They only have Diener (family connection) signed and he is a 3*. Tyger Campbell decommitted. Amari Bailey decommitted. DePaul's board is hearing that three players will soon announce their intent to transfer, including two starters. Leitao has averaged three conference wins per season. He finishes either 9th or 10th each year. They have also had at least 20 losses each season.

They hired Heirman to try and get more La Lumiere recruits to the program, and that has failed miserably.

I'm just going off of 247- who don't have any of those players.

Leitao didn't exactly inherit anything good at all.

When there has been close to 15 years of really bad basketball, and this is your second tenure at the school (after you originally left the school for a better job), I don't think there is the same grace period as other coaches and programs.

Other coaches have walked into worse situations (bad conference affiliation, poor facilities, poor recruiting area, poor TV market). The reality that the program has not made an on-court improvements despite these advantages speak volumes.
03-23-2018 10:30 AM
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Post: #92
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 10:30 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 10:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 10:07 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 09:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Its tough to say on Leitao right now. He's taken them to their best year in 11 years in Ken Pom ratings, has a recruiting class coming in with 2 4 star players and is ranked in the top 50 and #4 in the Big East. They were far more competitive this year than in the past. To get rid of him now would be a huge mistake IMO.

What recruits are you referring to? They only have Diener (family connection) signed and he is a 3*. Tyger Campbell decommitted. Amari Bailey decommitted. DePaul's board is hearing that three players will soon announce their intent to transfer, including two starters. Leitao has averaged three conference wins per season. He finishes either 9th or 10th each year. They have also had at least 20 losses each season.

They hired Heirman to try and get more La Lumiere recruits to the program, and that has failed miserably.

I'm just going off of 247- who don't have any of those players.

Leitao didn't exactly inherit anything good at all.

When there has been close to 15 years of really bad basketball, and this is your second tenure at the school (after you originally left the school for a better job), I don't think there is the same grace period as other coaches and programs.

Other coaches have walked into worse situations (bad conference affiliation, poor facilities, poor recruiting area, poor TV market). The reality that the program has not made an on-court improvements despite these advantages speak volumes.

most the time coaches get at least 4 years if not 5- to get their players in there. And yes, they did make on-court improvements. After all they were a big reason why the Big East had a bad tournament- if they don't beat Marquette- Marquette is probably in, and if they don't beat Providence by 17, Providence probably is a 7 seed rather than a forced 10 seed. They won 3 road conference games for only the 2nd time ever in the Big East(only other time being in 2007). They lost to the conference champions twice by 8 points. I get you don't like him. But progress has been made.
03-23-2018 10:40 AM
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Post: #93
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 10:40 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 10:30 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 10:19 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 10:07 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 09:56 AM)stever20 Wrote:  Its tough to say on Leitao right now. He's taken them to their best year in 11 years in Ken Pom ratings, has a recruiting class coming in with 2 4 star players and is ranked in the top 50 and #4 in the Big East. They were far more competitive this year than in the past. To get rid of him now would be a huge mistake IMO.

What recruits are you referring to? They only have Diener (family connection) signed and he is a 3*. Tyger Campbell decommitted. Amari Bailey decommitted. DePaul's board is hearing that three players will soon announce their intent to transfer, including two starters. Leitao has averaged three conference wins per season. He finishes either 9th or 10th each year. They have also had at least 20 losses each season.

They hired Heirman to try and get more La Lumiere recruits to the program, and that has failed miserably.

I'm just going off of 247- who don't have any of those players.

Leitao didn't exactly inherit anything good at all.

When there has been close to 15 years of really bad basketball, and this is your second tenure at the school (after you originally left the school for a better job), I don't think there is the same grace period as other coaches and programs.

Other coaches have walked into worse situations (bad conference affiliation, poor facilities, poor recruiting area, poor TV market). The reality that the program has not made an on-court improvements despite these advantages speak volumes.

most the time coaches get at least 4 years if not 5- to get their players in there. And yes, they did make on-court improvements. After all they were a big reason why the Big East had a bad tournament- if they don't beat Marquette- Marquette is probably in, and if they don't beat Providence by 17, Providence probably is a 7 seed rather than a forced 10 seed. They won 3 road conference games for only the 2nd time ever in the Big East(only other time being in 2007). They lost to the conference champions twice by 8 points. I get you don't like him. But progress has been made.


I'm not sure how you can argue progress has been made. This marked the sixth consecutive season that the program lost at least 20 games. It also marked the 8th time in the past 10 years that DePaul finished dead last in the Big East. DePaul last had a winning record over ten years ago.

You can use KenPom or any source you want, but it doesn't change the number of losses or last place finishes they have had.
03-23-2018 12:49 PM
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Post: #94
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The reason why the Big East needs more teams is what happened this year. 2 1 seeds is great, but then the other 4 teams just beat the **** out of each other and got 8-10 seeds. 8-10 seeds are pretty damn close to death.

In the 2 conferences with 10 teams- they had 11 teams finish between 8-10 and 10-8. Of the 11, 3 were NIT. 1 got a 6 seed. The other 7 were 8,8,9,10,10,10,10 seeds. Of those 7- only Kansas St advanced to the 2nd weekend due to UMBC beating Virginia. The other 6 all gone, 4 of the 6 1st game.

Compare to the AAC/Pac 12- just conference record wise. Pac 12 had 5 teams finish at 11-7 or stronger. AAC had 4 teams finishing at 12-6 or stronger. Big East/Big 12 teams finishing with 11-12 wins would be getting 4 or 5 seeds.

And yet two #9 seeds are already in the Elite 8 this year, an aberration to be sure.
03-23-2018 02:55 PM
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Post: #95
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 02:55 PM)DBSUC1982 Wrote:  
(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The reason why the Big East needs more teams is what happened this year. 2 1 seeds is great, but then the other 4 teams just beat the **** out of each other and got 8-10 seeds. 8-10 seeds are pretty damn close to death.

In the 2 conferences with 10 teams- they had 11 teams finish between 8-10 and 10-8. Of the 11, 3 were NIT. 1 got a 6 seed. The other 7 were 8,8,9,10,10,10,10 seeds. Of those 7- only Kansas St advanced to the 2nd weekend due to UMBC beating Virginia. The other 6 all gone, 4 of the 6 1st game.

Compare to the AAC/Pac 12- just conference record wise. Pac 12 had 5 teams finish at 11-7 or stronger. AAC had 4 teams finishing at 12-6 or stronger. Big East/Big 12 teams finishing with 11-12 wins would be getting 4 or 5 seeds.

And yet two #9 seeds are already in the Elite 8 this year, an aberration to be sure.

considering that it's doubled the number of 9 seeds making the elite 8, yeah- I'd call that an aberration for sure. And 1 of the 2 didn't have to see a 1 seed for the first time ever.

Historically, what we're seeing on the right side of the bracket is normal.

Since 1985-
1 seeds made elite 8 92 times
4 seeds made elite 8 21 times
5 seeds made elite 8 8 times
8 seeds made elite 8 8 times
9 seeds made elite 8 4 times
12 seeds made elite 8 1 time
13/16 seeds never made elite 8
so 1 vs the field is 92-42

2 seeds made elite 8 61 times
3 seeds made elite 8 33 times
6 seeds made elite 8 14 times
7 seeds made elite 8 10 times
10 seeds made elite 8 8 times
11 seeds made elite 8 8 times
14/15 seeds never made elite 8
so 2 vs the field is 61-73. 2/3 vs the field is 94-40

top 3 seeds have made elite 8 186 times. The other 13 seeds combined- only 82 times. And that could be 190-82 after tonight.
03-23-2018 03:05 PM
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Post: #96
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 03:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 02:55 PM)DBSUC1982 Wrote:  
(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The reason why the Big East needs more teams is what happened this year. 2 1 seeds is great, but then the other 4 teams just beat the **** out of each other and got 8-10 seeds. 8-10 seeds are pretty damn close to death.

In the 2 conferences with 10 teams- they had 11 teams finish between 8-10 and 10-8. Of the 11, 3 were NIT. 1 got a 6 seed. The other 7 were 8,8,9,10,10,10,10 seeds. Of those 7- only Kansas St advanced to the 2nd weekend due to UMBC beating Virginia. The other 6 all gone, 4 of the 6 1st game.

Compare to the AAC/Pac 12- just conference record wise. Pac 12 had 5 teams finish at 11-7 or stronger. AAC had 4 teams finishing at 12-6 or stronger. Big East/Big 12 teams finishing with 11-12 wins would be getting 4 or 5 seeds.

And yet two #9 seeds are already in the Elite 8 this year, an aberration to be sure.

considering that it's doubled the number of 9 seeds making the elite 8, yeah- I'd call that an aberration for sure. And 1 of the 2 didn't have to see a 1 seed for the first time ever.

Historically, what we're seeing on the right side of the bracket is normal.

Since 1985-
1 seeds made elite 8 92 times
4 seeds made elite 8 21 times
5 seeds made elite 8 8 times
8 seeds made elite 8 8 times
9 seeds made elite 8 4 times
12 seeds made elite 8 1 time
13/16 seeds never made elite 8
so 1 vs the field is 92-42

2 seeds made elite 8 61 times
3 seeds made elite 8 33 times
6 seeds made elite 8 14 times
7 seeds made elite 8 10 times
10 seeds made elite 8 8 times
11 seeds made elite 8 8 times
14/15 seeds never made elite 8
so 2 vs the field is 61-73. 2/3 vs the field is 94-40

top 3 seeds have made elite 8 186 times. The other 13 seeds combined- only 82 times. And that could be 190-82 after tonight.

I don't necessarily disagree with your original premise but the B12 was able to put 7 teams in with a 1,3,5,6, 9(2) and 10 seeds--so 4 with #6 and better. Perhaps a portion of BE's problem this year was having 2 #1 seeds making everybody else's records worse. Intersting topic nonetheless.
03-23-2018 03:16 PM
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Post: #97
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 03:16 PM)DBSUC1982 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 03:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 02:55 PM)DBSUC1982 Wrote:  
(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The reason why the Big East needs more teams is what happened this year. 2 1 seeds is great, but then the other 4 teams just beat the **** out of each other and got 8-10 seeds. 8-10 seeds are pretty damn close to death.

In the 2 conferences with 10 teams- they had 11 teams finish between 8-10 and 10-8. Of the 11, 3 were NIT. 1 got a 6 seed. The other 7 were 8,8,9,10,10,10,10 seeds. Of those 7- only Kansas St advanced to the 2nd weekend due to UMBC beating Virginia. The other 6 all gone, 4 of the 6 1st game.

Compare to the AAC/Pac 12- just conference record wise. Pac 12 had 5 teams finish at 11-7 or stronger. AAC had 4 teams finishing at 12-6 or stronger. Big East/Big 12 teams finishing with 11-12 wins would be getting 4 or 5 seeds.

And yet two #9 seeds are already in the Elite 8 this year, an aberration to be sure.

considering that it's doubled the number of 9 seeds making the elite 8, yeah- I'd call that an aberration for sure. And 1 of the 2 didn't have to see a 1 seed for the first time ever.

Historically, what we're seeing on the right side of the bracket is normal.

Since 1985-
1 seeds made elite 8 92 times
4 seeds made elite 8 21 times
5 seeds made elite 8 8 times
8 seeds made elite 8 8 times
9 seeds made elite 8 4 times
12 seeds made elite 8 1 time
13/16 seeds never made elite 8
so 1 vs the field is 92-42

2 seeds made elite 8 61 times
3 seeds made elite 8 33 times
6 seeds made elite 8 14 times
7 seeds made elite 8 10 times
10 seeds made elite 8 8 times
11 seeds made elite 8 8 times
14/15 seeds never made elite 8
so 2 vs the field is 61-73. 2/3 vs the field is 94-40

top 3 seeds have made elite 8 186 times. The other 13 seeds combined- only 82 times. And that could be 190-82 after tonight.

I don't necessarily disagree with your original premise but the B12 was able to put 7 teams in with a 1,3,5,6, 9(2) and 10 seeds--so 4 with #6 and better. Perhaps a portion of BE's problem this year was having 2 #1 seeds making everybody else's records worse. Intersting topic nonetheless.

yes- part of the reason why the B12 got 1,3,5 seeds is all 3 were at least 11-7. And you're right the 2 #1 seeds did hurt the other teams some. They did get a 4th one at 6 because they were 12-1 OOC with a top 50 SOS. #5 RPI OOC. Like I've said repeatedly conferences don't get teams bids or seeds. Teams have to get those themselves. Part of the reason why the Big East struggled with seeds was they didn't do so great in the OOC. Yeah had a great winning percentage and even a winning record vs P5 schools. But they also had Seton Hall losing to Rutgers, Providence losing to UMass- and losing 4 times in the OOC schedule. Creighton with a mediocre OOC schedule again. That's why TCU got a 6 seed and the Big East teams didn't.
03-23-2018 03:27 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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Post: #98
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 03:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 03:16 PM)DBSUC1982 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 03:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 02:55 PM)DBSUC1982 Wrote:  
(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The reason why the Big East needs more teams is what happened this year. 2 1 seeds is great, but then the other 4 teams just beat the **** out of each other and got 8-10 seeds. 8-10 seeds are pretty damn close to death.

In the 2 conferences with 10 teams- they had 11 teams finish between 8-10 and 10-8. Of the 11, 3 were NIT. 1 got a 6 seed. The other 7 were 8,8,9,10,10,10,10 seeds. Of those 7- only Kansas St advanced to the 2nd weekend due to UMBC beating Virginia. The other 6 all gone, 4 of the 6 1st game.

Compare to the AAC/Pac 12- just conference record wise. Pac 12 had 5 teams finish at 11-7 or stronger. AAC had 4 teams finishing at 12-6 or stronger. Big East/Big 12 teams finishing with 11-12 wins would be getting 4 or 5 seeds.

And yet two #9 seeds are already in the Elite 8 this year, an aberration to be sure.

considering that it's doubled the number of 9 seeds making the elite 8, yeah- I'd call that an aberration for sure. And 1 of the 2 didn't have to see a 1 seed for the first time ever.

Historically, what we're seeing on the right side of the bracket is normal.

Since 1985-
1 seeds made elite 8 92 times
4 seeds made elite 8 21 times
5 seeds made elite 8 8 times
8 seeds made elite 8 8 times
9 seeds made elite 8 4 times
12 seeds made elite 8 1 time
13/16 seeds never made elite 8
so 1 vs the field is 92-42

2 seeds made elite 8 61 times
3 seeds made elite 8 33 times
6 seeds made elite 8 14 times
7 seeds made elite 8 10 times
10 seeds made elite 8 8 times
11 seeds made elite 8 8 times
14/15 seeds never made elite 8
so 2 vs the field is 61-73. 2/3 vs the field is 94-40

top 3 seeds have made elite 8 186 times. The other 13 seeds combined- only 82 times. And that could be 190-82 after tonight.

I don't necessarily disagree with your original premise but the B12 was able to put 7 teams in with a 1,3,5,6, 9(2) and 10 seeds--so 4 with #6 and better. Perhaps a portion of BE's problem this year was having 2 #1 seeds making everybody else's records worse. Intersting topic nonetheless.

yes- part of the reason why the B12 got 1,3,5 seeds is all 3 were at least 11-7. And you're right the 2 #1 seeds did hurt the other teams some. They did get a 4th one at 6 because they were 12-1 OOC with a top 50 SOS. #5 RPI OOC. Like I've said repeatedly conferences don't get teams bids or seeds. Teams have to get those themselves. Part of the reason why the Big East struggled with seeds was they didn't do so great in the OOC. Yeah had a great winning percentage and even a winning record vs P5 schools. But they also had Seton Hall losing to Rutgers, Providence losing to UMass- and losing 4 times in the OOC schedule. Creighton with a mediocre OOC schedule again. That's why TCU got a 6 seed and the Big East teams didn't.

And yet St. Johns, who finished 9th in the conference, defeated #4 Duke and #1 Villanova back-to-back. Seton Hall defeated #22 Texas Tech and #17 Louisville.
Creighton defeated #20 Northwestern and #23 UCLA. There is a reason the Big East finished with the #2 overall conference behind the Big 12.

Michigan, who is in the Elite Eight, lost an OOC game to LSU. Kansas State lost to Tulsa. Loyola lost to UW-Milwaukee and Boise State.

There is no systemic or statistical basis that supports the Big East failing to advance in March - other than the losses themselves. It's not officiating. It's not scheduling. It's not the number of members. It's the losses, alone, in an unpredictable tournament. Period.
03-23-2018 07:26 PM
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Mav Offline
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Post: #99
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
(03-23-2018 07:26 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 03:27 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 03:16 PM)DBSUC1982 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 03:05 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-23-2018 02:55 PM)DBSUC1982 Wrote:  And yet two #9 seeds are already in the Elite 8 this year, an aberration to be sure.

considering that it's doubled the number of 9 seeds making the elite 8, yeah- I'd call that an aberration for sure. And 1 of the 2 didn't have to see a 1 seed for the first time ever.

Historically, what we're seeing on the right side of the bracket is normal.

Since 1985-
1 seeds made elite 8 92 times
4 seeds made elite 8 21 times
5 seeds made elite 8 8 times
8 seeds made elite 8 8 times
9 seeds made elite 8 4 times
12 seeds made elite 8 1 time
13/16 seeds never made elite 8
so 1 vs the field is 92-42

2 seeds made elite 8 61 times
3 seeds made elite 8 33 times
6 seeds made elite 8 14 times
7 seeds made elite 8 10 times
10 seeds made elite 8 8 times
11 seeds made elite 8 8 times
14/15 seeds never made elite 8
so 2 vs the field is 61-73. 2/3 vs the field is 94-40

top 3 seeds have made elite 8 186 times. The other 13 seeds combined- only 82 times. And that could be 190-82 after tonight.

I don't necessarily disagree with your original premise but the B12 was able to put 7 teams in with a 1,3,5,6, 9(2) and 10 seeds--so 4 with #6 and better. Perhaps a portion of BE's problem this year was having 2 #1 seeds making everybody else's records worse. Intersting topic nonetheless.

yes- part of the reason why the B12 got 1,3,5 seeds is all 3 were at least 11-7. And you're right the 2 #1 seeds did hurt the other teams some. They did get a 4th one at 6 because they were 12-1 OOC with a top 50 SOS. #5 RPI OOC. Like I've said repeatedly conferences don't get teams bids or seeds. Teams have to get those themselves. Part of the reason why the Big East struggled with seeds was they didn't do so great in the OOC. Yeah had a great winning percentage and even a winning record vs P5 schools. But they also had Seton Hall losing to Rutgers, Providence losing to UMass- and losing 4 times in the OOC schedule. Creighton with a mediocre OOC schedule again. That's why TCU got a 6 seed and the Big East teams didn't.

And yet St. Johns, who finished 9th in the conference, defeated #4 Duke and #1 Villanova back-to-back. Seton Hall defeated #22 Texas Tech and #17 Louisville.
Creighton defeated #20 Northwestern and #23 UCLA. There is a reason the Big East finished with the #2 overall conference behind the Big 12.

Michigan, who is in the Elite Eight, lost an OOC game to LSU. Kansas State lost to Tulsa. Loyola lost to UW-Milwaukee and Boise State.

There is no systemic or statistical basis that supports the Big East failing to advance in March - other than the losses themselves. It's not officiating. It's not scheduling. It's not the number of members. It's the losses, alone, in an unpredictable tournament. Period.
Well, Creighton and Xavier both have a reputation for being perennial underachievers come tournament time. It's not 100% luck and unpredictability.
03-23-2018 08:13 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #100
RE: Ackerman: Open to Expansion but 'Nothing on the Horizon'
If Loyola-Chicago moves above SLU/Dayton on Big East/Fox’s secret list:

You wouldn’t see a 4.5k seat arena in the Big East. But the city owns Wintrust. Tv executives and Rahm Emmanuel could easily pull strings to have the Ramblers be co-tenants with DePaul.
03-23-2018 08:36 PM
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