(03-11-2018 03:15 PM)Dwight Wrote:  We do have one new player next year who is a proven three-point threat, and that is the transfer from UIC. I believe that Tatyana Davis was a good outside shooter in high school, and I know that Mariah Copeland was. Neither one showed it in limited opportunities this past year, though. Santucci and Rokkanen have been given the green light to shoot the three, but both have had bad percentages, especially Santucci.

As to the new recruits from Wadsworth, if they are good defensive players, that would be a great thing. As northcoast showed in another post, our defensive stats this year were very bad compared to past Rocket teams.

For me the St Fort strategy, (start someone who can play defense but rare score and never make a free throw) has been disproven this year.

When you’re a 6-seed in a 12- team conference, you need to pull in a couple “top class in the MAC” classes if you want to get to the top. I don’t see that.

(03-11-2018 07:15 PM)temoxley Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 03:15 PM)Dwight Wrote:  We do have one new player next year who is a proven three-point threat, and that is the transfer from UIC. I believe that Tatyana Davis was a good outside shooter in high school, and I know that Mariah Copeland was. Neither one showed it in limited opportunities this past year, though. Santucci and Rokkanen have been given the green light to shoot the three, but both have had bad percentages, especially Santucci.

As to the new recruits from Wadsworth, if they are good defensive players, that would be a great thing. As northcoast showed in another post, our defensive stats this year were very bad compared to past Rocket teams.

For me the St Fort strategy, (start someone who can play defense but rare score and never make a free throw) has been disproven this year.

I don’t even think she plays defense well. Not to pile on the kid but I don’t see how she is D1 talent, let alone good enough to start

(03-11-2018 06:50 PM)Dwight Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 06:39 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-11-2018 03:15 PM)Dwight Wrote:  We do have one new player next year who is a proven three-point threat, and that is the transfer from UIC. I believe that Tatyana Davis was a good outside shooter in high school, and I know that Mariah Copeland was. Neither one showed it in limited opportunities this past year, though. Santucci and Rokkanen have been given the green light to shoot the three, but both have had bad percentages, especially Santucci.

As to the new recruits from Wadsworth, if they are good defensive players, that would be a great thing. As northcoast showed in another post, our defensive stats this year were very bad compared to past Rocket teams.

Hey, aren’t you supposed to be in the lake with me, Dwight?

Yeah, just came up for air momentarily.

Ariel Cummings of Notre Dame was reported one of ten players on Division 1 first team state high school basketball team. She averaged 11.4 pits/game this year. Sophia Fortner from Wadsworth was second team Division 1, another ten players.

(03-14-2018 12:54 PM)temoxley Wrote:  Ariel Cummings of Notre Dame was reported one of ten players on Division 1 first team state high school basketball team. She averaged 11.4 pits/game this year. Sophia Fortner from Wadsworth was second team Division 1, another ten players.

Correct. Fortner was the only player who didn't have her scoring stats listed. Her teammate, and UT recruit, from Wadsworth didn't make any of the all-state teams including honorable mention or special mention.

Local player, 6-2 Ashlynn Brown from Perrysburg, was first team DI all-state and is going to DII Southern Indiana.

Wadsworth lost in state semifinals to Solon 52-31. Lexi Lance was leading scorer for Wadsworth with 12 points and 5 rebounds in 29 minutes. Sophia Fortner had 2 points and 2 assists.

I am curious about our new recruits. Most of the comments about them on here have been on the negative side. Has anyone actually seen them play other than Ariel Cummings? I don't put a lot of stock in points scored in high school. There are to many variables effecting that. I won't go into them but can give two examples that will show it doesn't always tell how good a player will be in college. First is Linda Janicki, who only averaged 13 plus points in high school but went on to hold most records at Toledo until the teams started playing a lot more games. Her career earned the honor of becoming the first female athlete inducted into the Rocket Hall of Fame. The other is Courtney Ingersoll. I am sure most on here know what she accomplished. She scored very little in high school because her coach didn't want her to shoot. It took her two years at Toledo to get that out of her head and stop hesitating before shooting. I don't know that much about any of the recruits other than Ariel Cummings. Watching them practice and play next year will answer any questions for me. I always felt that incoming freshmen were like a Christmas presents, we don't know what we are getting but fun to find out.

(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)hwut1 Wrote:  I am curious about our new recruits. Most of the comments about them on here have been on the negative side. Has anyone actually seen them play other than Ariel Cummings? I don't put a lot of stock in points scored in high school. There are to many variables effecting that. I won't go into them but can give two examples that will show it doesn't always tell how good a player will be in college. First is Linda Janicki, who only averaged 13 plus points in high school but went on to hold most records at Toledo until the teams started playing a lot more games. Her career earned the honor of becoming the first female athlete inducted into the Rocket Hall of Fame. The other is Courtney Ingersoll. I am sure most on here know what she accomplished. She scored very little in high school because her coach didn't want her to shoot. It took her two years at Toledo to get that out of her head and stop hesitating before shooting. I don't know that much about any of the recruits other than Ariel Cummings. Watching them practice and play next year will answer any questions for me. I always felt that incoming freshmen were like a Christmas presents, we don't know what we are getting but fun to find out.

It must be difficult to project how effective a high school player will be in a college program. I can imagine that a high school player who doesn't score much in high school can evolve into an effective offensive player over time. My thought is that this year's team was offensively challenged and with the two most accurate 3 pt shooters (B-H and Woody) graduating, there is a pressing need for one or two big time outside threats. So I am doubtful that a high school player who hasn't shown that capability this year is very unlikely to be able to provide it next year at college level. And I understand that two of the three committed players are not perimeter players.

(03-20-2018 06:47 PM)temoxley Wrote:  

(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)hwut1 Wrote:  I am curious about our new recruits. Most of the comments about them on here have been on the negative side. Has anyone actually seen them play other than Ariel Cummings? I don't put a lot of stock in points scored in high school. There are to many variables effecting that. I won't go into them but can give two examples that will show it doesn't always tell how good a player will be in college. First is Linda Janicki, who only averaged 13 plus points in high school but went on to hold most records at Toledo until the teams started playing a lot more games. Her career earned the honor of becoming the first female athlete inducted into the Rocket Hall of Fame. The other is Courtney Ingersoll. I am sure most on here know what she accomplished. She scored very little in high school because her coach didn't want her to shoot. It took her two years at Toledo to get that out of her head and stop hesitating before shooting. I don't know that much about any of the recruits other than Ariel Cummings. Watching them practice and play next year will answer any questions for me. I always felt that incoming freshmen were like a Christmas presents, we don't know what we are getting but fun to find out.

It must be difficult to project how effective a high school player will be in a college program. I can imagine that a high school player who doesn't score much in high school can evolve into an effective offensive player over time. My thought is that this year's team was offensively challenged and with the two most accurate 3 pt shooters (B-H and Woody) graduating, there is a pressing need for one or two big time outside threats. So I am doubtful that a high school player who hasn't shown that capability this year is very unlikely to be able to provide it next year at college level. And I understand that two of the three committed players are not perimeter players.

You are right it hard to know who will be an offensive player in college. That is why coaches have a lot of things to consider when recruiting. Every player on a division one college team men's or women's team has been a star on their high school team. Coaches know what they are looking for when observing potential players. There are reasons that players are recruited that you and I don't know about. What fans see as a need might not be what coaches see as a need. Coaches have a plan and recruit to those plans. They are the ones who actually have watched high school players, and usually more than once. I enjoy second guessing as much as anyone. Every year some complain that we need post players, some say we need perimeter players. More to the point, unless you have watched players play or have seen shot charts, there is no way of measuring how a player will fit in. That why we need to have confidence in the coaches.

(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)hwut1 Wrote:  I am curious about our new recruits. Most of the comments about them on here have been on the negative side. Has anyone actually seen them play other than Ariel Cummings? I don't put a lot of stock in points scored in high school. There are to many variables effecting that. I won't go into them but can give two examples that will show it doesn't always tell how good a player will be in college. First is Linda Janicki, who only averaged 13 plus points in high school but went on to hold most records at Toledo until the teams started playing a lot more games. Her career earned the honor of becoming the first female athlete inducted into the Rocket Hall of Fame. The other is Courtney Ingersoll. I am sure most on here know what she accomplished. She scored very little in high school because her coach didn't want her to shoot. It took her two years at Toledo to get that out of her head and stop hesitating before shooting. I don't know that much about any of the recruits other than Ariel Cummings. Watching them practice and play next year will answer any questions for me. I always felt that incoming freshmen were like a Christmas presents, we don't know what we are getting but fun to find out.

I saw Wadsworth in person in the regionals when they beat Perrysburg (I’m guessing you and a couple others on this Board May have been there, too?), and watched them on TV when they lost in the State semi-finals.

From that limited sample, Fortner is the prototype high school point guard IMO. Best ball handler on her team whose role is to distribute to others. Didn’t seem to look to shoot very often in either game and also didn’t really “create” her shots when she did. Decent defender who stays in front of the ball but she did get in foul trouble against Perrysburg. Of the 3 stated incoming recruits, I think she has the best chance of seeing the floor as a true freshman to give Boyd a couple minutes of rest if Santucci doesn’t bounce back from her “Sophomore jinx” season.

I’m just not sure what to make of Lance. Not really noticeable in the P-burg game, but in that State semi-final she was one of the few things that seemed to work for Wadsworth. Whereas Fortner seemed consistent, and was guarding & guarded by players about her same size, Lance’s success may be tied to actual matchups—at about 6’ she likely had a size advantage much of the regular season. I did think she looked fairly quick which wasn’t an overall strength for us this past season. Seems a bit lean which could hamper her ability to do what she’s been used to doing in HS once she’s matched up against bigger players at this level. But unlike some, I don’t think she has to develop a 3-point shot to find a role here.

Of course, have seen Cummings more. She certainly has the size. And transferring to Notre Dame Academy was an absolute must, because it at least gave her better competition than she was seeing at Ottawa Hills. But I would be surprised if she wasn’t a red shirt her first season here. She is still learning the game, and as someone wise on this Board has stated before (smile), the post is a challenging position to pick up in college. IMO she is a project, but if she works hard & dedicates herself, I think she could be a factor by her Junior season.

In short, I don’t see a MAC “freshman if the year” candidate in this class, nor do I see anyone who is likely to be named to the “all-freshmen” team. When you are chasing 6 teams ahead of you (six), I think you need to bring in a player who can be that kind of contributor for a couple classes in a row. Instead, my concern is that we will now have 2 classes in a row that provide limited contributions. And those 2 classes are the not-so-distant future of the program. Right now, I see a lot of role players, but no Kaaylas or Boyds.

(03-21-2018 03:56 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)hwut1 Wrote:  I am curious about our new recruits. Most of the comments about them on here have been on the negative side. Has anyone actually seen them play other than Ariel Cummings? I don't put a lot of stock in points scored in high school. There are to many variables effecting that. I won't go into them but can give two examples that will show it doesn't always tell how good a player will be in college. First is Linda Janicki, who only averaged 13 plus points in high school but went on to hold most records at Toledo until the teams started playing a lot more games. Her career earned the honor of becoming the first female athlete inducted into the Rocket Hall of Fame. The other is Courtney Ingersoll. I am sure most on here know what she accomplished. She scored very little in high school because her coach didn't want her to shoot. It took her two years at Toledo to get that out of her head and stop hesitating before shooting. I don't know that much about any of the recruits other than Ariel Cummings. Watching them practice and play next year will answer any questions for me. I always felt that incoming freshmen were like a Christmas presents, we don't know what we are getting but fun to find out.

I saw Wadsworth in person in the regionals when they beat Perrysburg (I’m guessing you and a couple others on this Board May have been there, too?), and watched them on TV when they lost in the State semi-finals.

From that limited sample, Fortner is the prototype high school point guard IMO. Best ball handler on her team whose role is to distribute to others. Didn’t seem to look to shoot very often in either game and also didn’t really “create” her shots when she did. Decent defender who stays in front of the ball but she did get in foul trouble against Perrysburg. Of the 3 stated incoming recruits, I think she has the best chance of seeing the floor as a true freshman to give Boyd a couple minutes of rest if Santucci doesn’t bounce back from her “Sophomore jinx” season.

I’m just not sure what to make of Lance. Not really noticeable in the P-burg game, but in that State semi-final she was one of the few things that seemed to work for Wadsworth. Whereas Fortner seemed consistent, and was guarding & guarded by players about her same size, Lance’s success may be tied to actual matchups—at about 6’ she likely had a size advantage much of the regular season. I did think she looked fairly quick which wasn’t an overall strength for us this past season. Seems a bit lean which could hamper her ability to do what she’s been used to doing in HS once she’s matched up against bigger players at this level. But unlike some, I don’t think she has to develop a 3-point shot to find a role here.

Of course, have seen Cummings more. She certainly has the size. And transferring to Notre Dame Academy was an absolute must, because it at least gave her better competition than she was seeing at Ottawa Hills. But I would be surprised if she wasn’t a red shirt her first season here. She is still learning the game, and as someone wise on this Board has stated before (smile), the post is a challenging position to pick up in college. IMO she is a project, but if she works hard & dedicates herself, I think she could be a factor by her Junior season.

In short, I don’t see a MAC “freshman if the year” candidate in this class, nor do I see anyone who is likely to be named to the “all-freshmen” team. When you are chasing 6 teams ahead of you (six), I think you need to bring in a player who can be that kind of contributor for a couple classes in a row. Instead, my concern is that we will now have 2 classes in a row that provide limited contributions. And those 2 classes are the not-so-distant future of the program. Right now, I see a lot of role players, but no Kaaylas or Boyds.

I don’t even remember saying that, but thanks! And remember, Boyd wasn’t Boyd her freshman year, either. I still hold out hope that Santucci will learn to shoot- she does so much else well. After all, Janice Monokana made several layups by her senior year. Beacham has a nice mid-range game and some beef. We’ll be OK, but maybe not much more.

At 6' was probably not much of a size advantage in their league. It's not much of a size advantage in any league, anymore. But Fortner and Lance, started as Sophs. Good news. Bad news, putting five experienced Sr on the floor, they got dismantled by Solon.

The girl's game is still at that point where those that enjoyed the game young, play for most teams. Only a few players actually take it seriously beyond daily practice like the Toledo kid; training, AAU circuit.... The college coach will put the training on these two and if they find they're not interested.. they'll be moved on in life.

I presume Coach found some natural talent that could be developed, but it doesn't seem particularly developed at this point.

(03-21-2018 06:25 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  At 6' was probably not much of a size advantage in their league. It's not much of a size advantage in any league, anymore. But Fortner and Lance, started as Sophs. Good news. Bad news, putting five experienced Sr on the floor, they got dismantled by Solon.

The girl's game is still at that point where those that enjoyed the game young, play for most teams. Only a few players actually take it seriously beyond daily practice like the Toledo kid; training, AAU circuit.... The college coach will put the training on these two and if they find they're not interested.. they'll be moved on in life.

I presume Coach found some natural talent that could be developed, but it doesn't seem particularly developed at this point.

And then Solon got whacked.

(03-21-2018 09:35 AM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 06:25 AM)eastisbest Wrote:  At 6' was probably not much of a size advantage in their league. It's not much of a size advantage in any league, anymore. But Fortner and Lance, started as Sophs. Good news. Bad news, putting five experienced Sr on the floor, they got dismantled by Solon.

The girl's game is still at that point where those that enjoyed the game young, play for most teams. Only a few players actually take it seriously beyond daily practice like the Toledo kid; training, AAU circuit.... The college coach will put the training on these two and if they find they're not interested.. they'll be moved on in life.

I presume Coach found some natural talent that could be developed, but it doesn't seem particularly developed at this point.

And then Solon got whacked.

49-45?

(03-21-2018 05:38 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(03-21-2018 03:56 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(03-20-2018 05:11 PM)hwut1 Wrote:  I am curious about our new recruits. Most of the comments about them on here have been on the negative side. Has anyone actually seen them play other than Ariel Cummings? I don't put a lot of stock in points scored in high school. There are to many variables effecting that. I won't go into them but can give two examples that will show it doesn't always tell how good a player will be in college. First is Linda Janicki, who only averaged 13 plus points in high school but went on to hold most records at Toledo until the teams started playing a lot more games. Her career earned the honor of becoming the first female athlete inducted into the Rocket Hall of Fame. The other is Courtney Ingersoll. I am sure most on here know what she accomplished. She scored very little in high school because her coach didn't want her to shoot. It took her two years at Toledo to get that out of her head and stop hesitating before shooting. I don't know that much about any of the recruits other than Ariel Cummings. Watching them practice and play next year will answer any questions for me. I always felt that incoming freshmen were like a Christmas presents, we don't know what we are getting but fun to find out.

I saw Wadsworth in person in the regionals when they beat Perrysburg (I’m guessing you and a couple others on this Board May have been there, too?), and watched them on TV when they lost in the State semi-finals.

From that limited sample, Fortner is the prototype high school point guard IMO. Best ball handler on her team whose role is to distribute to others. Didn’t seem to look to shoot very often in either game and also didn’t really “create” her shots when she did. Decent defender who stays in front of the ball but she did get in foul trouble against Perrysburg. Of the 3 stated incoming recruits, I think she has the best chance of seeing the floor as a true freshman to give Boyd a couple minutes of rest if Santucci doesn’t bounce back from her “Sophomore jinx” season.

I’m just not sure what to make of Lance. Not really noticeable in the P-burg game, but in that State semi-final she was one of the few things that seemed to work for Wadsworth. Whereas Fortner seemed consistent, and was guarding & guarded by players about her same size, Lance’s success may be tied to actual matchups—at about 6’ she likely had a size advantage much of the regular season. I did think she looked fairly quick which wasn’t an overall strength for us this past season. Seems a bit lean which could hamper her ability to do what she’s been used to doing in HS once she’s matched up against bigger players at this level. But unlike some, I don’t think she has to develop a 3-point shot to find a role here.

Of course, have seen Cummings more. She certainly has the size. And transferring to Notre Dame Academy was an absolute must, because it at least gave her better competition than she was seeing at Ottawa Hills. But I would be surprised if she wasn’t a red shirt her first season here. She is still learning the game, and as someone wise on this Board has stated before (smile), the post is a challenging position to pick up in college. IMO she is a project, but if she works hard & dedicates herself, I think she could be a factor by her Junior season.

In short, I don’t see a MAC “freshman if the year” candidate in this class, nor do I see anyone who is likely to be named to the “all-freshmen” team. When you are chasing 6 teams ahead of you (six), I think you need to bring in a player who can be that kind of contributor for a couple classes in a row. Instead, my concern is that we will now have 2 classes in a row that provide limited contributions. And those 2 classes are the not-so-distant future of the program. Right now, I see a lot of role players, but no Kaaylas or Boyds.

I don’t even remember saying that, but thanks! And remember, Boyd wasn’t Boyd her freshman year, either. I still hold out hope that Santucci will learn to shoot- she does so much else well. After all, Janice Monokana made several layups by her senior year. Beacham has a nice mid-range game and some beef. We’ll be OK, but maybe not much more.

I agree with both of you. Cummings had basically no basketball experience at OH. Her two years at ND are her entire developmental time. She has a lot to learn but has proven her athletic ability in a tough high school league and a good game last year at the state championship. She is work in progress with a huge upside. As for this years group of freshmen I am very high on both Davis and Beacham. I believe both are going to be very good players starting next year. It took them awhile to adjust and learn how to play at a division one level. I give the coaching staff credit for not putting them into a situation they were not ready for too soon. They both ended the season with some positive accomplishments. That should carry over to next year. If a team can bring in two or three players (who don't have to be stars) just solid players every year, their program will remain strong. Let's hope Coach can find a good replacement for Vicky Hall. We will miss her!

I think the Rockets have a good chance to be better next year than they were this year. We should be better inside, with McIntyre back, Beacham presumably making a major contribution, and Carlsten-Handberg (transfer from UIC) available. While St. Fort was a liability as a starter, she's good enough to give some decent minutes in a reserve role. Given who's returning, I don't think we will miss Rasmussen or Woody.

On the perimeter, Boyd will be herself, Santucci maybe will gain some consistency with a year's more experience, and either Rokkanen or Cunningham hopefully will have a decent year. Cunningham was a huge factor her sophomore year and then disappeared for large stretches this past year. Rokkanen was extremely inconsistent as well. We haven't seen a whole lot of Davis, but she showed flashes of potential. With Jay-Ann gone, it's essential that a couple of players shoot a decent percentage from outside.

As hwut said in an earlier post, you never know what you may get out of freshmen. The good news is that we can be very strong next year without any help from the freshmen. If one or two of them contributes right away, that's a bonus.

For me, the main cause for excitement is Beacham. I really think she can measure up to the best power forwards in the league. That position could go from a liability to a strength.

(03-21-2018 03:40 PM)Dwight Wrote:  I think the Rockets have a good chance to be better next year than they were this year. We should be better inside, with McIntyre back, Beacham presumably making a major contribution, and Carlsten-Handberg (transfer from UIC) available. While St. Fort was a liability as a starter, she's good enough to give some decent minutes in a reserve role. Given who's returning, I don't think we will miss Rasmussen or Woody.

On the perimeter, Boyd will be herself, Santucci maybe will gain some consistency with a year's more experience, and either Rokkanen or Cunningham hopefully will have a decent year. Cunningham was a huge factor her sophomore year and then disappeared for large stretches this past year. Rokkanen was extremely inconsistent as well. We haven't seen a whole lot of Davis, but she showed flashes of potential. With Jay-Ann gone, it's essential that a couple of players shoot a decent percentage from outside.

As hwut said in an earlier post, you never know what you may get out of freshmen. The good news is that we can be very strong next year without any help from the freshmen. If one or two of them contributes right away, that's a bonus.

For me, the main cause for excitement is Beacham. I really think she can measure up to the best power forwards in the league. That position could go from a liability to a strength.

Amen Dwight! No one could have said this better. Thanks!

Little off track from the current conversation, but Arielle Cummings has only been playing basketball for three years and she just made 1st team all-Ohio. She may still be raw (her feet and hands both need some work, and she replied too much on her height), but she'll definitely help out UT in the future.

3 years? I'm pretty sure her Ma played college ball. 3 years school ball?