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HBU Sunday Game
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75src Offline
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Post: #81
RE: HBU Sunday Game
In the 1970s and before, there were fewer games 40 or less. We would play just 3 games against each SWC foe with the site alternating each year and OOC games.

(03-06-2018 03:07 PM)mrbig Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 02:24 PM)I45owl Wrote:  
(03-04-2018 01:44 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  College baseball really needs to reduce the number of games in the regular season. I have written before that a five-game week is terrible: there is no other college sport that comes close to imposing that kind of demand on student-athletes. A six-game week seems like an abomination.

Personally, I feel like it is about time they consider changing the start of the season to late January. Hopefully, we can generate a groundswell to make that happen.

It used to be late January when I was at Rice in the late-1990s. But such an early start date was seen as unfair to northern schools, who couldn't even practice or play outdoors until March for some teams. I think reducing the number of games (slightly) would be better than going back to an earlier start date.
03-06-2018 03:22 PM
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Clad Scheme Owl Offline
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Post: #82
RE: HBU Sunday Game
The number of current games shouldn't really be an issue. It is only going to increase at each level.
03-06-2018 04:03 PM
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Post: #83
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 04:03 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  The number of current games shouldn't really be an issue. It is only going to increase at each level.

??? You don't have classes, lab work and papers at the next level.
03-06-2018 04:06 PM
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Clad Scheme Owl Offline
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Post: #84
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 04:06 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 04:03 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  The number of current games shouldn't really be an issue. It is only going to increase at each level.

??? You don't have classes, lab work and papers at the next level.

You don't have any of that for almost a third of the season. Everyone else has to deal with it. We just did a poor job of scheduling this next stretch. Also how do you think college baseball would handle the loss in revenue by cutting the number of games down? Lastly while you don't have classes in the pros you do have twice as many games or more depending on the level. That is with longer days. It takes more of a toll on your body.
03-06-2018 04:34 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #85
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 04:03 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  The number of current games shouldn't really be an issue. It is only going to increase at each level.

In combination with the legislated start date, it is an issue, as it essentially guarantees that any team which wants to observe a break for exams will have some five-game or even six-game weeks. That's a bad thing.
03-06-2018 05:31 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #86
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 03:07 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I think reducing the number of games (slightly) would be better than going back to an earlier start date.

Absolutely.
03-06-2018 05:32 PM
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Clad Scheme Owl Offline
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Post: #87
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 05:31 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 04:03 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  The number of current games shouldn't really be an issue. It is only going to increase at each level.

In combination with the legislated start date, it is an issue, as it essentially guarantees that any team which wants to observe a break for exams will have some five-game or even six-game weeks. That's a bad thing.

I completely agree that 6 games in a week is a bad thing. However this was just poor scheduling. The majority of weeks are 4 game weeks. Speaking of wanting breaks during exams. No one deals with this more than Stanford since they have quarters. They have finals during super regionals. Rice actually benefits more than most schools because our academic year ends a week or sometimes two early, depending on who you are playing, before everyone else which allows for a second half surge a month before the post season.
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2018 05:40 PM by Clad Scheme Owl.)
03-06-2018 05:39 PM
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georgewebb Offline
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Post: #88
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 04:34 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  Also how do you think college baseball would handle the loss in revenue by cutting the number of games down?

Eliminating a couple of mid-week games (which is all we are talking about) would be a net financial gain for the vast majority of college baseball teams.
03-06-2018 05:39 PM
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Clad Scheme Owl Offline
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Post: #89
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 05:39 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 04:34 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  Also how do you think college baseball would handle the loss in revenue by cutting the number of games down?

Eliminating a couple of mid-week games (which is all we are talking about) would be a net financial gain for the vast majority of college baseball teams.

A lot of big time programs use that for cross conference in state rivals so I wouldn't be so sure on that.
03-06-2018 05:43 PM
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Post: #90
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 05:43 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:39 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 04:34 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  Also how do you think college baseball would handle the loss in revenue by cutting the number of games down?

Eliminating a couple of mid-week games (which is all we are talking about) would be a net financial gain for the vast majority of college baseball teams.

A lot of big time programs use that for cross conference in state rivals so I wouldn't be so sure on that.

He didn't say eliminate ALL of them
03-06-2018 05:44 PM
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Clad Scheme Owl Offline
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Post: #91
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 05:44 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:43 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:39 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 04:34 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  Also how do you think college baseball would handle the loss in revenue by cutting the number of games down?

Eliminating a couple of mid-week games (which is all we are talking about) would be a net financial gain for the vast majority of college baseball teams.

A lot of big time programs use that for cross conference in state rivals so I wouldn't be so sure on that.

He didn't say eliminate ALL of them

Nor were the eliminated games specified. My point is the number of games is not an issue.

edit: Also the teams that you would eliminate would really be hit by not having those games. I'm assuming you are talking about teams that Rice should mop the floor with. Those teams need that revenue as well as a chance to help out their RPI.
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2018 05:54 PM by Clad Scheme Owl.)
03-06-2018 05:47 PM
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Hambone10 Offline
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Post: #92
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 05:47 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:44 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:43 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:39 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 04:34 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  Also how do you think college baseball would handle the loss in revenue by cutting the number of games down?

Eliminating a couple of mid-week games (which is all we are talking about) would be a net financial gain for the vast majority of college baseball teams.

A lot of big time programs use that for cross conference in state rivals so I wouldn't be so sure on that.

He didn't say eliminate ALL of them

Nor were the eliminated games specified. My point is the number of games is not an issue.

edit: Also the teams that you would eliminate would really be hit by not having those games. I'm assuming you are talking about teams that Rice should mop the floor with. Those teams need that revenue as well as a chance to help out their RPI.

?? Let's start with the fact that he said 'eliminate a couple', and while he wasn't specific as to which ones that meant, the clear implication is that you would choose to eliminate the most disadvantageous ones and keep those rivalry games

and why would that make the number of games 'not an issue'?

As to what those teams need, they don't get revenue (usually) from away games... and why should we care what 'they' need if it comes at an expense to us?

Football is different... an extra home football game for UT is worth something like $10mm (100,000 tickets plus concessions at around $100 each average)

Before anyone says it, we were never one of 'those' teams. We were in the SWC which had good baseball so all you had to do was win in the SWC which we did. We then won the WAC and CUSA outright so even if they weren't good, we earned our way in. Of course it could have played out differently if we had been in the WAC when we started trying to be good and 'the big boys' didn't want to play us... but I think we've been on the short-end of the stick often enough w/r/t 'competition committees' that I don't really care what those other places need (not intended to disparage anyone with a different opinion... any angst directed at the committee, not others opinions of it)

If we eliminated say 6 games from our schedule, I feel confident that we would still need to have games against places that need to boost their RPI.... just not as many.

and while it is good for THEIR Rpi, it can KILL ours.

I'm all about what is best for Rice... and as one of the 'haves' in baseball, this is no longer good for us
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2018 06:43 PM by Hambone10.)
03-06-2018 06:42 PM
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Clad Scheme Owl Offline
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Post: #93
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-06-2018 06:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:47 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:44 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:43 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  
(03-06-2018 05:39 PM)georgewebb Wrote:  Eliminating a couple of mid-week games (which is all we are talking about) would be a net financial gain for the vast majority of college baseball teams.

A lot of big time programs use that for cross conference in state rivals so I wouldn't be so sure on that.

He didn't say eliminate ALL of them

Nor were the eliminated games specified. My point is the number of games is not an issue.

edit: Also the teams that you would eliminate would really be hit by not having those games. I'm assuming you are talking about teams that Rice should mop the floor with. Those teams need that revenue as well as a chance to help out their RPI.

?? Let's start with the fact that he said 'eliminate a couple', and while he wasn't specific as to which ones that meant, the clear implication is that you would choose to eliminate the most disadvantageous ones and keep those rivalry games

and why would that make the number of games 'not an issue'?

As to what those teams need, they don't get revenue (usually) from away games... and why should we care what 'they' need if it comes at an expense to us?

Football is different... an extra home football game for UT is worth something like $10mm (100,000 tickets plus concessions at around $100 each average)

Before anyone says it, we were never one of 'those' teams. We were in the SWC which had good baseball so all you had to do was win in the SWC which we did. We then won the WAC and CUSA outright so even if they weren't good, we earned our way in. Of course it could have played out differently if we had been in the WAC when we started trying to be good and 'the big boys' didn't want to play us... but I think we've been on the short-end of the stick often enough w/r/t 'competition committees' that I don't really care what those other places need (not intended to disparage anyone with a different opinion... any angst directed at the committee, not others opinions of it)

If we eliminated say 6 games from our schedule, I feel confident that we would still need to have games against places that need to boost their RPI.... just not as many.

and while it is good for THEIR Rpi, it can KILL ours.

I'm all about what is best for Rice... and as one of the 'haves' in baseball, this is no longer good for us

Be careful what you wish for. We are on the track to be a disadvantageous game for a top RPI team in a few years. Imagine if we suddenly couldn't get our RPI up because we play in a bad conference and we are no longer competitive to our in state competition.
03-07-2018 10:10 AM
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Post: #94
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-07-2018 10:10 AM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  Be careful what you wish for. We are on the track to be a disadvantageous game for a top RPI team in a few years. Imagine if we suddenly couldn't get our RPI up because we play in a bad conference and we are no longer competitive to our in state competition.

Oh give me a break.

We're talking about teams with RPIs north of 150.
03-07-2018 12:05 PM
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Clad Scheme Owl Offline
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Post: #95
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-07-2018 12:05 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-07-2018 10:10 AM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  Be careful what you wish for. We are on the track to be a disadvantageous game for a top RPI team in a few years. Imagine if we suddenly couldn't get our RPI up because we play in a bad conference and we are no longer competitive to our in state competition.

Oh give me a break.

We're talking about teams with RPIs north of 150.

TX State is at 276 right now and we just got thumped by them. Easily could have been our 2nd loss to them too.
03-07-2018 12:12 PM
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Post: #96
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-07-2018 12:12 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  
(03-07-2018 12:05 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-07-2018 10:10 AM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  Be careful what you wish for. We are on the track to be a disadvantageous game for a top RPI team in a few years. Imagine if we suddenly couldn't get our RPI up because we play in a bad conference and we are no longer competitive to our in state competition.

Oh give me a break.

We're talking about teams with RPIs north of 150.

TX State is at 276 right now and we just got thumped by them. Easily could have been our 2nd loss to them too.


so I ask you, why the hell we're playing them?


You're simultaneously arguing that we need to give teams like that a chance, and that we have nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing so.

You sound like you're just looking to argue

You may not remember this, but in 2003, one of our top pitchers pitched mid week games during the season, especially against 'the big schools' because we wanted the RPI bump and it worked. To think that Tx State (and PVA&M for that matter) can't have one stud and wouldn't use them against a team like us this time of year (before conference really starts) is ignorant.

Anyone can beat anyone in baseball one game, ESPECIALLY if you're trying to parse out your line-up while others are trying to make a splash... which is why they typically play 3+ game series. Our 2003 NC team lost 2 to Lamar and were drubbed 8-1 by Sam Houston, which had a losing record in front of a whopping 481 fans. Tell me why we played that game? Aardsma took the loss. I guess he just wasn't a very good pitcher, huh?
03-07-2018 02:35 PM
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Clad Scheme Owl Offline
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Post: #97
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-07-2018 02:35 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-07-2018 12:12 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  
(03-07-2018 12:05 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  
(03-07-2018 10:10 AM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  Be careful what you wish for. We are on the track to be a disadvantageous game for a top RPI team in a few years. Imagine if we suddenly couldn't get our RPI up because we play in a bad conference and we are no longer competitive to our in state competition.

Oh give me a break.

We're talking about teams with RPIs north of 150.

TX State is at 276 right now and we just got thumped by them. Easily could have been our 2nd loss to them too.


so I ask you, why the hell we're playing them?


You're simultaneously arguing that we need to give teams like that a chance, and that we have nothing to gain and everything to lose by doing so.

You sound like you're just looking to argue

You may not remember this, but in 2003, one of our top pitchers pitched mid week games during the season, especially against 'the big schools' because we wanted the RPI bump and it worked. To think that Tx State (and PVA&M for that matter) can't have one stud and wouldn't use them against a team like us this time of year (before conference really starts) is ignorant.

Anyone can beat anyone in baseball one game, ESPECIALLY if you're trying to parse out your line-up while others are trying to make a splash... which is why they typically play 3+ game series. Our 2003 NC team lost 2 to Lamar and were drubbed 8-1 by Sam Houston, which had a losing record in front of a whopping 481 fans. Tell me why we played that game? Aardsma took the loss. I guess he just wasn't a very good pitcher, huh?

You said earlier that it hurts our RPI to play teams that could be eliminated from the schedule. Which I then said it would screw over those teams and that there is no need to change the current number of games we just scheduled poorly to play 2 mid weeks and 4 games this weekend. That's on us. You were suggesting that we don't bother with an RPI north of 150 because it hurts our RPI to play them. That isn't typically true if you take care of business and win. Also by that same logic you are suggesting that A&M and "big schools" shouldn't have had us on their schedule. I never said we have nothing to gain. If anything we SHOULD have quite a bit to gain since against inferior mid week competition we would like to get in guys that would not usually play.

Also any comparison to the 03 team is irrelevant. None of these players were there and only 1 coach remains. That team was 33-1 at one point and had 3 top 10 picks in their starting rotation. That was one of the best college teams ever assembled. But again it's not anything from then translates to now. The entire premise of how this came up was some were suggesting that we play too many games in a college season. I strongly disagree. We don't need to keep trying to find excuses. We need to get our swagger back and win.
03-07-2018 02:50 PM
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Post: #98
RE: HBU Sunday Game
(03-07-2018 02:50 PM)Clad Scheme Owl Wrote:  You said earlier that it hurts our RPI to play teams that could be eliminated from the schedule. Which I then said it would screw over those teams and that there is no need to change the current number of games we just scheduled poorly to play 2 mid weeks and 4 games this weekend. That's on us. You were suggesting that we don't bother with an RPI north of 150 because it hurts our RPI to play them. That isn't typically true if you take care of business and win. Also by that same logic you are suggesting that A&M and "big schools" shouldn't have had us on their schedule. I never said we have nothing to gain. If anything we SHOULD have quite a bit to gain since against inferior mid week competition we would like to get in guys that would not usually play.

This isn't what I said. This is a ridiculous interpretation of what I said.

First, I said that playing teams north of 150 doesn't do us any good, and COULD do harm. You haven't presented anything that in any way disputes that.

Playing against inferior competition has SOME advantages... but as I have said now repeatedly... nobody suggested we eliminate ALL of them.

Even you admit here that 6 in a week is too many, so where is your 'gives us an opportunity to play less used players' argument THIS week? It's

and while you blame 'us', I'm quite convinced that if we wouldn't have been harmed by scheduling perhaps 6 fewer games, that we would have likely canceled one or more of these games (and I suspect their 'away' counterparts.



Quote:Also any comparison to the 03 team is irrelevant. None of these players were there and only 1 coach remains. That team was 33-1 at one point and had 3 top 10 picks in their starting rotation. That was one of the best college teams ever assembled. But again it's not anything from then translates to now. The entire premise of how this came up was some were suggesting that we play too many games in a college season. I strongly disagree. We don't need to keep trying to find excuses. We need to get our swagger back and win.

What I think you mean by irrelevant is that it disproves your position so let's ignore it.

My point was that even the best teams (2003) can lose to vastly inferior competition. SOMETIMES twice.... so that means that your comment implying that losing to Tx State is inexcusable or 'shows how we've fallen' is silly. You're absolutely correct that that team was one of the best ever assembled.... and they STILL lost 3 times to vastly inferior competition. The biggest difference between 2003 and 2018 isn't losing to Tx State.... It's beating Stanford.

I've made no excuses. You'll see nothing in my posts that says we're doing well or that I'm happy about losing to Tx State.

There is a massive difference between saying we shouldn't expect to beat Tx State because we're playing 6 games in 7 days (what you seem to think I've said) and saying that ANY team, whether it be 2003 or 2018 Rice, can lose to an inferior team, is better off not playing 6 in 7, and that if you're looking to drop some games, that dropping low RPI teams is better.

I don't know the exact math, but I'm pretty sure we've had discussions on here from people who know that show that you can go 'clear the bench' (that 'good' you seem to think can only happen against weak teams) against a top 50 team mid-week and lose 15-1 and not do as much damage to your RPI as beating a team ranked 200 by the same score.
03-07-2018 11:33 PM
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Post: #99
RE: HBU Sunday Game
Hey guys, we nearly always play Lamar, Sam Houston, & TxSt two times a year for the last twenty years at least. Sometimes a slump busting trip to Beaumont or San Marcos is just what the doctor ordered. Sometimes we get punched in the face by little brother and it wakes us up a little. Hard to argue that this standing agreement has hurt us over the years, and if anything it has likely been beneficial. It would have been nice to see if one of those old friends would have moved out of their mid-week game this week, but I guess that didn't happen.

So the question is who decided to throw in the 4 game series against Gonzaga and the Columbia game next week. Columbia is a real head scratcher and RPI drooper if we get into a dog fight with no bullpen against a team looking for a statement win. Sure they won the Ivy last year, but we are talking a 150+ RPI team most likely. I am assuming Gonzaga would only agree to come down here if they got 4 games and we got stuck with an open weekend and had to take them and jam the games in there. Gonzaga looks very similar to us on paper so any RPI +/- shouldn't be terrible, but we basically gave away any home field advantage and then some by short stacking ourselves in the bullpen.

Hopefully the square peg round hole scheduling strategy works out in the next 10 days...
03-08-2018 12:16 AM
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