It's an interesting idea...the SEC taking the Texahoma 4 in the near term and perhaps allowing ourselves the flexibility to add programs from the ACC in the long term.

The only problem with it is that we'd have to wait until the Big 12 GOR was just about out before we could make a move on both Oklahoma and Texas. The reason being is that there simply wouldn't be enough quality pieces left over that other leagues would be interested in. So, we couldn't create the necessary critical mass to void the GOR and disband the Big 12.

The other way we could split the Big 12 is with ESPN and subsequently the ACC's help. Assuming ESPN is interested in dividing up the Big 12 before Amazon or anyone else has a chance to enter the market, then we could split the schools between the SEC and ACC. We'd both probably have to go to 20 to make the numbers work. Rescuing all 10 schools would be the safe move.

The latter is very doable as long as ESPN is willing to overpay a little bit for both leagues. From the SEC's perspective though, it's not ideal as we would not be allowed to land Texas. And in all honesty, I would have some apprehension in saying that Texas would prefer the ACC over the SEC anyway. Most of their biggest rivals would be in the other league and certain priorities would not be met.

A few years back, I proposed that the SEC and Big 12 merge essentially. I thought that a 24 team league could be very functional and provide certain advantages that a smaller league couldn't. There would be drawbacks, of course, but I'm assuming the advantages would outweigh the disadvantages. I felt somewhat vindicated when Berry Tramel wrote an article a while back referencing officials in Big 12 circles essentially saying that merging with the SEC would be ideal. It's the little things that make me feel good people...the little things.

Anyway, I've come to you today with a somewhat different proposal.

A combo of all 3 tactics...

I think 24 is a very good number for a lot of reasons even though the frequency of play between any given group of members would have to be reduced. I also believe that in the long term, the SEC's financials will look better than the ACC's, but I think the network would prefer to keep the ACC together long into the future. After all, there is value in an East Coast conference and so many of the current members of the league are suited for each other. That and the investment in an ACC Network would need to be protected as long as the linear cable model is viable.

While I would love for the SEC to gain what it wants from both the Big 12 and ACC, I fear that there will be too many forces and agendas that will prevent that long into the future. That and getting every school of value to us from the ACC could cause a numbers crunch especially if OU and UT are already on board.

So in the absence of guarantees, I think it is best to think long term with the tools we have at our disposal.

The SEC wants long term strength. The ACC needs a boost. The Big 12 needs security. But in the midst of all that, ESPN needs content.

So how about this?

SEC adds Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, Kansas State, Colorado State, Iowa State, UCF, and USF.

ACC adds TCU, Baylor, Houston, and West Virginia. Notre Dame remains partial.

-All 10 Big 12 schools are accounted for.

-The SEC adds the powers of the Big 12 along with a few up and comers. Two of those are in fast growing FL and could come in awfully handy if the ACC never sheds properties.

-The ACC gets a network boost and a little better security in the long term.

I see no reason why the SEC would want or need to add Colorado St, USF, or UCF. If you want to go down this road, scratch them along with Iowa State.
Let the ACC add TCU, Baylor, Iowa St and WVU (or better yet, ACC takes Okie St, SEC takes Iowa St - more states for SEC, better balance, another ACC/SEC rivalry).

(03-05-2018 07:43 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I see no reason why the SEC would want or need to add Colorado St, USF, or UCF. If you want to go down this road, scratch them along with Iowa State.
Let the ACC add TCU, Baylor, Iowa St and WVU (or better yet, ACC takes Okie St, SEC takes Iowa St - more states for SEC, better balance, another ACC/SEC rivalry).

"Need" would be a strong word, but each of those schools could be useful.

Long term, UCF and USF are probably going to become more significant simply because the state of FL is a mega-market if you will. The state should be able to support 5 Power brands and it would help the SEC gain greater penetration into a very large state that shows no sign of slowing growth. I'm working on the assumption that we wouldn't be able to break into the ACC for a long time, if ever. If that is the case then adding to our base in FL could pay dividends. I'm not really thinking about the year 2018 here...I'm thinking more about 20, 40, and 50 years down the line. UCF and USF are already 2 of the largest schools in the country and it's only a matter of time before their alumni base and brand awareness become significant.

Colorado State probably doesn't have quite as much gravitas in their future, but they are still the 2nd school in a decent sized and growing market. The academics are good and they've made a significant commitment to football so I think they have a good future.

But anyway, I was just looking for 3 schools to complete the deal that would allow the Big 12 to be absorbed, but also allow the ACC to get some good properties out of it.

Just seems like a shotgun approach when a surgical strike is more succinct

The Mission Objective is still the same: Gain and Control of Population Centers to secure your brand as the most popular within your defined region ("The South")

Erego, the strategy should be as follows:

Secure DFW

Secure SoFlo

Expand into the MidAtlantic

Oklahoma, Miami, West Virginia and Virginia Tech realistically accomplish this goal while only splitting the new pie 4 more ways. Add Kansas and a NC ACC school IF we can get one of them to jump but if not, call it a day as we are set for life.

I like the idea, in a completely selfish way. We'd get our heads kicked in every game in dat big-time sweltering heat of Aug/Sept/Oct, and we'd stand a good chance every time a team voyaged to our (nearly) mile-high alatitude.

We have scoreboard on LSU (early 90s game in Death Valley). Played Bama pretty good the past couple of years. Playing Florida and Arkansas this fall - we'll make the trip to Fayetteville in 2019. Coach Bobo spent nearly his entire career at UGA. I want to play SCarolina so I can say we played 'scar'. Have a short series with Vandy comin' up.

Plus, we have a beer patio at our new stadium and a craft brewing program in the university. It's good to be a CSU Ram.

(03-05-2018 03:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Just seems like a shotgun approach when a surgical strike is more succinct

The Mission Objective is still the same: Gain and Control of Population Centers to secure your brand as the most popular within your defined region ("The South")

Erego, the strategy should be as follows:

Secure DFW

Secure SoFlo

Expand into the MidAtlantic

Oklahoma, Miami, West Virginia and Virginia Tech realistically accomplish this goal while only splitting the new pie 4 more ways. Add Kansas and a NC ACC school IF we can get one of them to jump but if not, call it a day as we are set for life.

A collection of Oklahoma, Kansas, Miami, NC State, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia would be strong on a lot of fronts. Although I would still want a 2nd TX school for the same reason I want a 2nd FL school.

I think the problem is making it that simple. If there were no such things as GORs or state politics or meddling networks then our league would probably already be larger and somewhat different in its makeup.

My approach assumes there are certain extraneous factors that keep us from doing precisely what we want to do. I may be overstating the hurdles and probably am to some degree, but a lot has to go our way in order for us to pick up everyone we want. The history of realignment tells us that things rarely go that smoothly...for anyone, not just us.

(03-05-2018 04:22 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-05-2018 03:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Just seems like a shotgun approach when a surgical strike is more succinct

The Mission Objective is still the same: Gain and Control of Population Centers to secure your brand as the most popular within your defined region ("The South")

Erego, the strategy should be as follows:

Secure DFW

Secure SoFlo

Expand into the MidAtlantic

Oklahoma, Miami, West Virginia and Virginia Tech realistically accomplish this goal while only splitting the new pie 4 more ways. Add Kansas and a NC ACC school IF we can get one of them to jump but if not, call it a day as we are set for life.

A collection of Oklahoma, Kansas, Miami, NC State, Virginia Tech, and West Virginia would be strong on a lot of fronts. Although I would still want a 2nd TX school for the same reason I want a 2nd FL school.

I think the problem is making it that simple. If there were no such things as GORs or state politics or meddling networks then our league would probably already be larger and somewhat different in its makeup.

My approach assumes there are certain extraneous factors that keep us from doing precisely what we want to do. I may be overstating the hurdles and probably am to some degree, but a lot has to go our way in order for us to pick up everyone we want. The history of realignment tells us that things rarely go that smoothly...for anyone, not just us.

If we are to go to 20 in order to absorb all of the Big 12 and if the ACC truly coveted Texas then we could come out well by doing the following:

ACC relinquishes Miami and Virginia Tech to the SEC. The SEC adds Kansas, Iowa State, Oklahoma State and T.C.U. to move to 20.

The ACC adds Oklahoma, Kansas State, Baylor, Texas, Texas Tech and West Virginia from the Big 12 and Cincinnati.

So the ACC looks like this:

Boston College, Cincinnati, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse,

Duke, North Carolina, N.C. State, Virginia, West Virginia

Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Wake Forest

Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas Tech

Now the SEC looks like this:

Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma State, T.C.U.

Arkansas, L.S.U., Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M

Alabama, Miami, Tennessee, Vanderbilt, Virginia Tech

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina

If A&M wanted to swap positions with T.C.U. in this set up then fine.

But if we don't have to move to 20 then if N.D. stays indy we can still dissolve them but do it more efficiently.

Baylor, Texas, T.C.U. and Tech to the ACC.

Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, West Virginia to the SEC with no swapping of schools.



In the plan to absorb all 10 the ACC loses nothing from their footprint and adds Ohio, Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas and West Virginia to their footprint. And fully adds N.D.'s brand.

The SEC loses nothing from it's footprint but adds a 2nd Florida & Texas school and picks up Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa, and Virginia as states.

(03-05-2018 03:05 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Just seems like a shotgun approach when a surgical strike is more succinct

The Mission Objective is still the same: Gain and Control of Population Centers to secure your brand as the most popular within your defined region ("The South")

Erego, the strategy should be as follows:

Secure DFW

Secure SoFlo

Expand into the MidAtlantic

Oklahoma, Miami, West Virginia and Virginia Tech realistically accomplish this goal while only splitting the new pie 4 more ways. Add Kansas and a NC ACC school IF we can get one of them to jump but if not, call it a day as we are set for life.

Defining the objectives between the folks in B'ham and those in Bristol is the key to understanding how expansion will unfold. As such, your second and 3rd points are too damaging to the ACC for them to gain much traction or would require elevating either USF or UCF, schools that ESPN has already for the low-low.

That leave point one which dovetails nicely into ESPN potential plan of divvy up the B12 in such a way as to avoid a lawsuit along with facilitating better integration of Mizzou into the SEC as well as fixing the schedule.

A lot is going to depend of Pitaro's vision of ESPN in the future.

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/2265...ident-espn

(03-05-2018 07:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  A lot is going to depend of Pitaro's vision of ESPN in the future.

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/2265...ident-espn

Well he doesn't have roots in any of the P5, but he's a Northerner. It will be interesting to see if he makes a push for the Big 10 rights.

(03-05-2018 11:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-05-2018 07:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  A lot is going to depend of Pitaro's vision of ESPN in the future.

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/2265...ident-espn

Well he doesn't have roots in any of the P5, but he's a Northerner. It will be interesting to see if he makes a push for the Big 10 rights.

He's an Ivy League guy which is a little different from what we've seen with recent ESPN heads.

Having attended St. John's also, I imagine he has an appreciation for the Northeastern basketball culture. I don't know if that will really inform any of his decisions, but either way I think we will see an increasing focus on streamed/online content. His work with Yahoo would suggest that's his expertise.

(03-05-2018 11:47 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-05-2018 07:46 PM)XLance Wrote:  A lot is going to depend of Pitaro's vision of ESPN in the future.

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/2265...ident-espn

Well he doesn't have roots in any of the P5, but he's a Northerner. It will be interesting to see if he makes a push for the Big 10 rights.

If I were he, I would be looking for a way to buy the BTN. Then take the 42 teams that make up the BTN, SECN and ACCN add Notre Dame and 5 others from the Big 12 to create three 16 team leagues (48 teams total) and market it as a package.
ESPN has all of the data necessary to know which 16 teams need to be in which conference.

To sort of get back to the point the best way to form two 18 member conferences would be for this to happen.

ACC gives up Miami, Virginia, and N.C. State to the SEC.

The SEC adds T.C.U. and stops at 18:

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech

The ACC sets up a Western Division:

Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

There are 2 eighteen member conferences in relative balance with one another.

The Big 10 could take the 10 best PAC schools and end at 24.

Between those three conferences (60 schools) we could form our own tier and league.

(03-06-2018 05:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  To sort of get back to the point the best way to form two 18 member conferences would be for this to happen.

ACC gives up Miami, Virginia, and N.C. State to the SEC.

The SEC adds T.C.U. and stops at 18:

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech

The ACC sets up a Western Division:

Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

There are 2 eighteen member conferences in relative balance with one another.

The Big 10 could take the 10 best PAC schools and end at 24.

Between those three conferences (60 schools) we could form our own tier and league.

It would be one cold day when the ACC gave up UVa or that Virginia condescended to join the SEC.

(03-06-2018 08:30 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 05:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  To sort of get back to the point the best way to form two 18 member conferences would be for this to happen.

ACC gives up Miami, Virginia Tech, and N.C. State to the SEC.

The SEC adds T.C.U. and stops at 18:

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech

The ACC sets up a Western Division:

Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

There are 2 eighteen member conferences in relative balance with one another.

The Big 10 could take the 10 best PAC schools and end at 24.

Between those three conferences (60 schools) we could form our own tier and league.

It would be one cold day when the ACC gave up UVa or that Virginia condescended to join the SEC.

I believe you misread the post. I left the Tech off of the initial sentence, but had it right in the lineup.

(03-06-2018 05:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  To sort of get back to the point the best way to form two 18 member conferences would be for this to happen.

ACC gives up Miami, Virginia, and N.C. State to the SEC.

The SEC adds T.C.U. and stops at 18:

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech

The ACC sets up a Western Division:

Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

There are 2 eighteen member conferences in relative balance with one another.

The Big 10 could take the 10 best PAC schools and end at 24.

Between those three conferences (60 schools) we could form our own tier and league.

No offense JR but your conferences are a little off.
I would break them down like this:

Miami, Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech

Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Louisville, Kentucky

UVa, Duke, Carolina, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Florida



Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

LSU, A&M, Baylor, Arkansas, Mississippi, TCU

Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

(03-06-2018 09:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 05:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  To sort of get back to the point the best way to form two 18 member conferences would be for this to happen.

ACC gives up Miami, Virginia, and N.C. State to the SEC.

The SEC adds T.C.U. and stops at 18:

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech

The ACC sets up a Western Division:

Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

There are 2 eighteen member conferences in relative balance with one another.

The Big 10 could take the 10 best PAC schools and end at 24.

Between those three conferences (60 schools) we could form our own tier and league.

No offense JR but your conferences are a little off.
I would break them down like this:

Miami, Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech

Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Louisville, Kentucky

UVa, Duke, Carolina, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Florida



Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

LSU, A&M, Baylor, Arkansas, Mississippi, TCU

Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Only in your dreams X.

(03-06-2018 09:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 09:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 05:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  To sort of get back to the point the best way to form two 18 member conferences would be for this to happen.

ACC gives up Miami, Virginia, and N.C. State to the SEC.

The SEC adds T.C.U. and stops at 18:

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech

The ACC sets up a Western Division:

Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

There are 2 eighteen member conferences in relative balance with one another.

The Big 10 could take the 10 best PAC schools and end at 24.

Between those three conferences (60 schools) we could form our own tier and league.

No offense JR but your conferences are a little off.
I would break them down like this:

Miami, Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech

Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Louisville, Kentucky

UVa, Duke, Carolina, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Florida



Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

LSU, A&M, Baylor, Arkansas, Mississippi, TCU

Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Only in your dreams X.

It makes sense to me.

(03-06-2018 09:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 09:00 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(03-06-2018 05:55 PM)JRsec Wrote:  To sort of get back to the point the best way to form two 18 member conferences would be for this to happen.

ACC gives up Miami, Virginia, and N.C. State to the SEC.

The SEC adds T.C.U. and stops at 18:

Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Missouri, Texas A&M, T.C.U.

Alabama, Auburn, Miami, Mississippi State, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, N.C. State, South Carolina, Virginia Tech

The ACC sets up a Western Division:

Baylor, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech

Boston College, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Wake Forest

Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Virginia

There are 2 eighteen member conferences in relative balance with one another.

The Big 10 could take the 10 best PAC schools and end at 24.

Between those three conferences (60 schools) we could form our own tier and league.

No offense JR but your conferences are a little off.
I would break them down like this:

Miami, Florida State, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech

Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Louisville, Kentucky

UVa, Duke, Carolina, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Florida



Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

LSU, A&M, Baylor, Arkansas, Mississippi, TCU

Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

Only in your dreams X.

You do realize JR that this format works with any three of Florida, South Carolina, Kentucky or Vanderbilt.

If you feel you need to keep Florida, this would work just as well:


Miami, Vanderbilt, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech

Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Louisville, Kentucky

UVa, Duke, Carolina, Georgia Tech, South Carolina, Florida State



Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida

LSU, A&M, Baylor, Arkansas, Mississippi, TCU

Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

or, we could actually work West Virginia into our mix and move Vanderbilt (wrong time zone) back to you, which would allow Kansas (I can never realistically see Kansas in the SEC) to go to the B1G with Iowa State.


Miami, South Carolina, Clemson, NC State, Wake Forest, Virginia Tech

Boston College, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Louisville, Kentucky

UVa, Duke, Carolina, Georgia Tech, Notre Dame, Florida State


Mississippi State, Auburn, Alabama, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida

LSU, A&M, Baylor, Arkansas, Mississippi, Vanderbilt

Texas, Missouri, TCU, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech

X, the SEC schools averaged 127 million in gross total revenue last year. The ACC averaged 92 million. No school in the SEC will be leaving the SEC for the ACC. If not for the GOR the movement of schools from the ACC to the SEC would be extremely likely.

That's just a fact of life. You think as though these moves could happen in a vacuum where all things other would be equal. They are not. Not the gate, not the concessions, not the branding, not the mix of sports, not the venues, and certainly not the revenue.