Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
Author Message
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 26,860
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 594
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #61
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-05-2018 12:37 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 09:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 12:16 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  I never said it wasn't. My point was more or less does Rutgers vibe in NYC?

In a general sense, no. But they don't have to. They do vibe in NYC among a certain segment, and NYC is so big that's all that's needed to constitute a substantial market.

Bottom lines here are:

1) The B1G tournament, despite its weirdo dates, had very respectable attendance in MSG.

2) Since adding Rutgers, the B1G has been making even more money than it was before. Hand over fist.

There isn't anyone in the B1G who is saying that the move in to the NYC area via Rutgers has been anything but a financial success, regardless of on field results.

Especially when you consider there was a nor’easter happening outside.

I'm sure that deterred some folks from checking it out.

Good point about the weather.

This Indy Star article says that, despite all the pre-tournament mocking and skepticism, the event "worked", and furthermore, the Saturday games had the first B1G tournament sellout session since 2014:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/co...393723002/
03-05-2018 02:39 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
BadgerMJ Online
1st String
*

Posts: 1,057
Joined: Mar 2017
Reputation: 79
I Root For: Wisconsin / ND
Location: Wisconsin
Post: #62
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-05-2018 02:39 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 12:37 PM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 09:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 12:16 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  I never said it wasn't. My point was more or less does Rutgers vibe in NYC?

In a general sense, no. But they don't have to. They do vibe in NYC among a certain segment, and NYC is so big that's all that's needed to constitute a substantial market.

Bottom lines here are:

1) The B1G tournament, despite its weirdo dates, had very respectable attendance in MSG.

2) Since adding Rutgers, the B1G has been making even more money than it was before. Hand over fist.

There isn't anyone in the B1G who is saying that the move in to the NYC area via Rutgers has been anything but a financial success, regardless of on field results.

Especially when you consider there was a nor’easter happening outside.

I'm sure that deterred some folks from checking it out.

Good point about the weather.

This Indy Star article says that, despite all the pre-tournament mocking and skepticism, the event "worked", and furthermore, the Saturday games had the first B1G tournament sellout session since 2014:

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/co...393723002/

I think the point some people are forgetting is that this was pretty much a trial run. They had to crunch the numbers so to speak to fit the timeline this round, but now that they know the tourney at the Garden "works", they'll be back.

I'm still in the camp that both the tournament and football's championship game should rotate. There's some pretty nice stadiums and arenas in the B1G's footprint, why not use them?
03-05-2018 02:51 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 19,139
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Zamunda
Post: #63
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-05-2018 01:44 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(03-04-2018 08:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Saying Staten Island is part of NYC is like saying San Fernando Valley is LA. I know enough about NYC to know that, local or not.

As a native Angelino I can say the Valley is part of the City of Los Angeles. Water, police, fire and libraries are run by L.A. Same with Staten Island as being a borough of New York City.

As for the B1G Tournament in NYC, it makes sense from a financial and marketing angle. But a power league like the Big Ten has no business having its tournament the week before the other power conferences.

You're not the only one native to LA (close enough).
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 03:18 PM by _C2_.)
03-05-2018 03:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ruinrochester Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 14
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 0
I Root For: Rutgers
Location: Florida
Post: #64
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
There isn't anyone in the B1G who is saying that the move in to the NYC area via Rutgers has been anything but a financial success, regardless of on field results.
[/quote]

Correct.

Big Ten expansion with Rutgers was never about having it as an individual school deliver the NYC market on its own. There isn't any school that's able to that by itself.

Instead, it's about the "penumbra effect" of bringing in all of the Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, et. al alums and fans that are in the NYC market altogether. When you add all of those fans together, then that's a large critical mass to work with. The role of Rutgers isn't so much as a deliverer of the NYC market, but rather a conduit to the NYC market for the rest of the Big Ten. (You could say the same thing about the ACC's expansion into the Northeast.) Financially, the bottom line is that the BTN is getting paid in-market subscriber fees in the NYC market due to the addition of Rutgers (and the same in the DC area with Maryland), so it's certainly a financial success. Finally, long-term, the Big Ten had to get out of just its Midwestern footprint because it's the slowest-growing area of the country. The league needed to look at how the demographics of America will look like 30, 40 or 50 years from now and adjust while it still has the market power and leverage to add key pieces.

As for the basketball tournament in NYC itself, I think it's a good idea periodically even though I'm personally biased to having it in Chicago every year. That being said, it definitely was NOT worth moving the tournament up a week early and squeezing the entire regular season conference schedule just to be able to play in Madison Square Garden. Playing in Madison Square Garden itself is great, but it has to be normal timing (which may not ever be possible with the Big East's long-term agreement there). Otherwise, playing at Barclays Center is perfectly fine if the timing works out there. (Anyone suggesting Newark has clearly never been to Newark.) It appears that the Big Ten is heading back to a regular Chicago/Indianapolis rotation with an East Coast-based tournament every 5 years or so, which would be more than reasonable.
[/quote]
I would agree with this understanding of what Rutgers brings that you describe. Growing up in that area you would know that if you win they will follow. That run Rutgers had with Ray Rice, and Rutgers FB back then RU was the talk of NYC. If they can now rebuild to a winning and that doesn't mean an expectation of championships, but just winning in a respectable manor, than NYC will adopt them as "one of the guys" why? That's what New York'ers do and because they are the only local option in big time college sports. Basketball should be first, because it takes just "one guy" to turn a team around.. In 1976 when Rutgers had that final four run (which by the way included Rutgers, Indiana, Michigan and UCLA - which today would be 3 out 4 B1G teams). That "one guy" was Phil Sellers, from Brooklyn. The run this year at the garden with Rutgers, the "one guy" was Corey Sanders. So to see the run in the Garden will help recruiting and will help a new City kid that saw the run. You had to see the atmosphere of what Sanders did to the garden as "our guy" (even if he is from Lakeland Florida) If Rutgers can build on that, the market will follow, and when you add all of the alumni from the B10 that have relocated, then you will understand how brilliant this eastern drive has been. NYC I suspect will either be in a 1 in 3 or a 1 in 4 mix for the tournament. That just depends on the dates, (and don't forget having an exclusive Tournament Power 5 TV window last weekend didn't hurt either)
03-05-2018 03:50 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
UTEPDallas Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,762
Joined: Oct 2004
Reputation: 111
I Root For: UTEP/Penn State
Location: Dallas, TX
Post: #65
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-05-2018 03:16 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 01:44 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  
(03-04-2018 08:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Saying Staten Island is part of NYC is like saying San Fernando Valley is LA. I know enough about NYC to know that, local or not.

As a native Angelino I can say the Valley is part of the City of Los Angeles. Water, police, fire and libraries are run by L.A. Same with Staten Island as being a borough of New York City.

As for the B1G Tournament in NYC, it makes sense from a financial and marketing angle. But a power league like the Big Ten has no business having its tournament the week before the other power conferences.

You're not the only one native to LA (close enough).

What do you mean by that?

Either you’re part of LA or not. The Valley is one of many areas of the City of Los Angeles. Hollywood is another one. So are Brentwood and East LA just to mention a few. Just because you see Northridge, Pacoima or Woodland Hills in an address doesn’t mean they’re not part of the City of LA. You’re confusing the Valley with a place like Long Beach or Glendale which have their own city council, police, fire department, water services and library.

Most people refer to the metro area as LA. Doesn’t matter if it’s Malibu, Pasadena, Anaheim, Valencia, Pomona, Burbank, Long Beach or Riverside.
03-05-2018 04:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
RutgersGuy Online
1st String
*

Posts: 2,338
Joined: Nov 2015
Reputation: 105
I Root For: Rutgers
Location:
Post: #66
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-04-2018 08:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Saying Staten Island is part of NYC is like saying San Fernando Valley is LA. I know enough about NYC to know that, local or not.

I've lived in both and they are both certainly thought of as parts of those cities.
03-05-2018 06:24 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
esayem Offline
Hark The Sound!
*

Posts: 4,291
Joined: Feb 2007
Reputation: 133
I Root For: The Heels
Location: Tobacco Road
Post: #67
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
I don’t think anybody thought turnout would be low. Look at the alumni bases in the NYC area. Hell, Michigan alumni alone could have filled the place up.
03-05-2018 06:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 19,139
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Zamunda
Post: #68
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-05-2018 06:24 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-04-2018 08:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Saying Staten Island is part of NYC is like saying San Fernando Valley is LA. I know enough about NYC to know that, local or not.

I've lived in both and they are both certainly thought of as parts of those cities.

I never said it wasn't. But Staten Island is closer to a suburb or smaller satellite city than part of the true core of NYC. And don't dismiss me as a non-local because everyone knows Manhattan is the heart of NYC and everything else is the outer boroughs, especially Staten Island, which might as well be New Jersey.
03-05-2018 06:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 26,860
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 594
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #69
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-05-2018 06:28 PM)esayem Wrote:  I don’t think anybody thought turnout would be low. Look at the alumni bases in the NYC area. Hell, Michigan alumni alone could have filled the place up.

Well, why was there so much negativity in the media before the tournament? Seems like every media story i read presumed it would be a failure, they were poised to throw dirt on it, and then ... they packed the house for the semifinals.

IMO, the attendance at MSG means the only valid criticism could come from "heartland" B1G fans who want the tourney in the midwest, so they can access it easier. That's the equivalent of ACC fans from North Carolina who don't want to drive to NYC either.

But to my knowledge, that's the way it is always going to be. Probably 80% of them are going to be in places like Chicago or Indy anyway, so no use getting riled up if once every 5-6 years it's in DC or NYC.
(This post was last modified: 03-05-2018 07:32 PM by quo vadis.)
03-05-2018 07:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ruinrochester Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 14
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 0
I Root For: Rutgers
Location: Florida
Post: #70
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-05-2018 06:40 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(03-05-2018 06:24 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-04-2018 08:25 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Saying Staten Island is part of NYC is like saying San Fernando Valley is LA. I know enough about NYC to know that, local or not.

I've lived in both and they are both certainly thought of as parts of those cities.

I never said it wasn't. But Staten Island is closer to a suburb or smaller satellite city than part of the true core of NYC. And don't dismiss me as a non-local because everyone knows Manhattan is the heart of NYC and everything else is the outer boroughs, especially Staten Island, which might as well be New Jersey.

You are missing the point, and yet you don't understand that you are supporting the point.

NYC is the heart of the area.. the entire area.. Staten Island, Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx, AND NJ all feed into that heart.. that's why it works. it's an island with bridges, and tunnels into it, and 2 tunnels from NJ go right into Manhattan.. it's all the same to us. That's why it works, and you see the Jets, and Giants play in NJ.. go figure, but here we are all one, when you win... NJ local TV news..is NYC TV news. There is only one ABC, NBC, or CBS for the area, and that's why it's a metro area and what others will never understand. Long Island is just as far away as NJ, and feel like New Yorkers one and the same as White Plains and West Chester.. Any team within that area is claimed as their own, IF they win or compete against "outsiders"...
03-05-2018 11:44 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Hokie4Skins Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 2,267
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 84
I Root For: Ed O'Bannon
Location:
Post: #71
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
It was a ratings winner in NYC and elsewhere:


Michael DeCourcy
‏ @tsnmike
3h3 hours ago

BTN TV ratings for B1G Tournament: Average audience for Thursday & Friday sessions "bested competing programming on every national cable sports network in Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Detroit, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New York, Philadelphia, DC."
03-06-2018 12:36 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 26,860
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 594
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #72
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-06-2018 12:36 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  It was a ratings winner in NYC and elsewhere:


Michael DeCourcy
‏ @tsnmike
3h3 hours ago

BTN TV ratings for B1G Tournament: Average audience for Thursday & Friday sessions "bested competing programming on every national cable sports network in Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Detroit, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New York, Philadelphia, DC."

Just about everyone bashed the B1G for holding their tourney a week before everyone else, but that might have been a TV masterstroke, not having to compete in a very crowded Power conference tournament market this week.
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2018 01:35 PM by quo vadis.)
03-06-2018 01:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
ruinrochester Offline
Water Engineer
*

Posts: 14
Joined: May 2013
Reputation: 0
I Root For: Rutgers
Location: Florida
Post: #73
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
The 2018 Big Ten Men’s Basketball Tournament on BTN delivered significant audiences this past week, featuring the most-watched programming across all cable sports networks in BTN’s 12 metered markets* over four doubleheaders on Thursday, March 1 and Friday, March 2.

The average audience for the sessions, two on Thursday and two on Friday, bested competing programming on every other national cable sports network** in Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Detroit, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New York, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C.

Additionally, the 2018 Big Ten Men’s Basketball Tournament not only produced BTN’s largest aggregate tournament viewership ever, up 99% over the 2017 tournament and 142% over the 2016 tournament, but also the top basketball viewing audience over a three-day period in network history.

The tournament got off to a strong start with all four of Thursday’s games broadcast exclusively on BTN. Viewership averaged a 0.52 HH rating, increasing by nearly 41% over the same set of games split among BTN and ESPN2 during the 2017 Big Ten Men’s Basketball Tournament.

In addition to the linear network audience, Thursday’s matchup between Michigan State and Wisconsin set a BTN record as the largest streaming audience with 69,239 average viewers per minute. For the duration of the tournament on BTN, the first 10 games, the average viewers per minute was 29,038 on BTN2Go and Fox Sports GO.

*Source: Nielsen Metered Market Overnights: Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton, Detroit, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, New York, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C.

**ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, FS1, FS2, NBCSN

Thank You NYC!! Thank You Rutgers for your unexpected run!!!!!
03-06-2018 02:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
hoops22 Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 271
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 34
I Root For: big east
Location:
Post: #74
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
There never seemed to be that much buzz in the city about the B1G holding their tournament here, but I guess it goes to show how many alums there are in the area. The attendance numbers were impressive. People ridicule the B1G for having invited Rutgers, but I've always felt if they ever get really good in football, they will make a huge splash in the NYC market. That's a big "if", but we've never had big time football around here, and I think it would have a much larger impact than people expect. As far as basketball goes, I think Rutgers is still considered a bit of an outsider. A couple weekends ago St. John's and Seton Hall played before a sellout crowd at MSG. Substitute Rutgers for either of those two, and I doubt very much the game comes close to selling out.
03-06-2018 02:07 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
AntiG Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 987
Joined: Dec 2012
Reputation: 24
I Root For: Rutgers
Location: NYC
Post: #75
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-04-2018 09:41 PM)megadrone Wrote:  
(03-04-2018 09:28 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Fine, how close is Rutgers to Manhattan, the action center?

College Ave (main campus) to Penn Station, 35 miles.

To Tottenville, Staten Island (closest spot within city limits) is about 13 miles as the crow flies.

to further drill into this point, the city of Houston is 50 miles wide. The area between Rutgers and Madison Square Garden (35 miles) would fit easily within that.

And discounting Staten Island to fit a narrative is silly. NYC is made up of 5 boroughs, and SI is one of them. Rutgers might not be physically inside NYC but its certainly right next door. Its a reason why NYC employees that don't live in NYC mostly live in northern NJ, and that includes a lot of people that live right in New Brunswick and Piscataway.
03-06-2018 02:22 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 19,139
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Zamunda
Post: #76
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
Houston's widest points. "Houston" is more or less confined to the Beltway. Houston also has no state lines and no area is decidedly different or a world apart as it is even just crossing the Hudson from Manhattan to New Jersey in most cases. You're dealing with more cultural and political barriers when you talk about going from NYC to a random town in New Jersey.

Not that I really care. As I said, I don't live up there and you guys do so if you feel that way, I guess it must be true.
03-06-2018 02:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Wolfman Offline
All American
*

Posts: 3,890
Joined: Nov 2011
Reputation: 148
I Root For: The Game
Location: Raleigh, NC
Post: #77
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-03-2018 10:38 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(03-03-2018 09:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(03-03-2018 08:11 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  
(03-03-2018 07:31 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  One assumes the BIG takes bid for tournament sites, though not a lot of cities would be in play. Perhaps NYC offered very good incentives and the amenities were hard to turn down.

Really it is about strategic rotating, and playing in NY offers top media and the exposure is not bad for conference recruitment, making a statement about footprint, giving those most eastern schools a bit of convenience, etc.

Chicago or Indianapolis would make sense as a permanent host. But rotating has some good arguments.

I agree with everything except the media. The media would flock to the tournament if it was held in Buford, Wyoming (population 1).

I hope that guy has a very big house.

hes the post master, mayor and police chief.

She's 80 something and runs a road-side diner. She lost the mayoral election by 1 vote.
03-07-2018 12:22 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
McKinney Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 356
Joined: Dec 2017
Reputation: 25
I Root For: Massachusetts
Location:
Post: #78
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-06-2018 02:47 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Houston's widest points. "Houston" is more or less confined to the Beltway. Houston also has no state lines and no area is decidedly different or a world apart as it is even just crossing the Hudson from Manhattan to New Jersey in most cases. You're dealing with more cultural and political barriers when you talk about going from NYC to a random town in New Jersey.

Not that I really care. As I said, I don't live up there and you guys do so if you feel that way, I guess it must be true.

State lines don't mean as much in the Northeast. Sure our states have different cultures, stereotypes, what have you, but it's very common for folks to live/work in NJ->NY (NYC), CT->NY (NYC), NJ->PA (Philly), DE->PA (Philly), MA->CT (Hartford-Springfield), NH->MA (Boston), RI->MA (Boston), etc.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2018 02:04 AM by McKinney.)
03-07-2018 02:01 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
_C2_ Offline
The King of Overanalysis
*

Posts: 19,139
Joined: Feb 2008
Reputation: 364
I Root For: Houston
Location: Zamunda
Post: #79
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
So you're gonna tell me there's no difference between Secaucus, Weehawken and Manhattan? I've been to all three in this case.
03-07-2018 02:04 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
quo vadis Offline
Legend
*

Posts: 26,860
Joined: Aug 2008
Reputation: 594
I Root For: USF/Georgetown
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Post: #80
RE: Take the Big Ten Tournament back to Chicago...
(03-07-2018 02:04 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  So you're gonna tell me there's no difference between Secaucus, Weehawken and Manhattan? I've been to all three in this case.

I'm not sure why you're bulldogging this. If you've spent time in Joisey, you know that the NYC penumbra spreads out quite a ways, and it definitely covers Rutgers.

Sure, that penumbra fades the farther we move away from the epicenter. New Brunswick isn't as much New York City as Times Square is, but it's definitely in the zone of influence and orbit.
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2018 10:30 AM by quo vadis.)
03-07-2018 07:18 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.