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One less WR for 2018....
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Suptroop Offline
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Post: #21
RE: One less WR for 2018....
Fair statement. My point being, for a frosh, I believed he performed well. I think this upcoming year will be more indicative of his ceiling.

quote='prairiedawg' pid='15120647' dateline='1519954212']
(03-01-2018 03:49 PM)Suptroop Wrote:  Childers was a redshirt freshman who came into last fall as a clear cut number three. Apart from being a freshman, being a number three means he wasn’t given any consideration especially since it seemed Graham/Santa were the presumed starters.

Give him a full off season as the number one guy with starting experience he will be good. He maybe doesn’t have the arm to throw bombs, but with big body receivers and shifty guys who can move in space, out offense could be explosive again. I’ll take a qb who can throw 20 yards on a rope with accuracy over a bomb guy any day.

In theory, I think their receiver recruiting philosophy makes sense.

Let’s look back at Chandler’s first year playing as a frosh...there were many with doubt then too.


(03-01-2018 10:11 AM)UnknownScout Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:21 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 09:37 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  If Childers can't throw it doesn't matter. He had more bad moments throwing than good moments if my memory is correct. He threw one pop up pass I still get can't out of my head. His arm is crap until he proves otherwise.

+1000. I’m scrolling through all these WR posts thinking to myself “pretty soon someone is going to realize that most WRs are only as good as the guy throwing to him”. Thanks, p-dog!!

I have a hard time believing that Childers is going to get that much of a gain in arm strength. I just don't think he's a good QB. He may not have turned the ball over last year, but we're going to need his arm this year to be successful, and he looked like a high school freshman out there last year with his pop flies and inaccurate passes.

Childers cannot throw 20 yards on a rope... he can do the 20 yard pop fly though.
[/quote]
03-01-2018 08:50 PM
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Huskie_Jon Offline
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Post: #22
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-01-2018 08:50 PM)Suptroop Wrote:  Fair statement. My point being, for a frosh, I believed he performed well. I think this upcoming year will be more indicative of his ceiling.

quote='prairiedawg' pid='15120647' dateline='1519954212']
(03-01-2018 03:49 PM)Suptroop Wrote:  Childers was a redshirt freshman who came into last fall as a clear cut number three. Apart from being a freshman, being a number three means he wasn’t given any consideration especially since it seemed Graham/Santa were the presumed starters.

Give him a full off season as the number one guy with starting experience he will be good. He maybe doesn’t have the arm to throw bombs, but with big body receivers and shifty guys who can move in space, out offense could be explosive again. I’ll take a qb who can throw 20 yards on a rope with accuracy over a bomb guy any day.

In theory, I think their receiver recruiting philosophy makes sense.

Let’s look back at Chandler’s first year playing as a frosh...there were many with doubt then too.


(03-01-2018 10:11 AM)UnknownScout Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:21 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 09:37 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  If Childers can't throw it doesn't matter. He had more bad moments throwing than good moments if my memory is correct. He threw one pop up pass I still get can't out of my head. His arm is crap until he proves otherwise.

+1000. I’m scrolling through all these WR posts thinking to myself “pretty soon someone is going to realize that most WRs are only as good as the guy throwing to him”. Thanks, p-dog!!

I have a hard time believing that Childers is going to get that much of a gain in arm strength. I just don't think he's a good QB. He may not have turned the ball over last year, but we're going to need his arm this year to be successful, and he looked like a high school freshman out there last year with his pop flies and inaccurate passes.

Childers cannot throw 20 yards on a rope... he can do the 20 yard pop fly though.
[/quote]

Childers loses his freshman disclaimer next year. No more, "But he is only a freshman!". He will have to be compared apples to apples with other MAC starting QBs.
03-01-2018 09:17 PM
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BDB5yp Offline
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Post: #23
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-01-2018 08:50 PM)Suptroop Wrote:  Fair statement. My point being, for a frosh, I believed he performed well. I think this upcoming year will be more indicative of his ceiling.

quote='prairiedawg' pid='15120647' dateline='1519954212']
(03-01-2018 03:49 PM)Suptroop Wrote:  Childers was a redshirt freshman who came into last fall as a clear cut number three. Apart from being a freshman, being a number three means he wasn’t given any consideration especially since it seemed Graham/Santa were the presumed starters.

Give him a full off season as the number one guy with starting experience he will be good. He maybe doesn’t have the arm to throw bombs, but with big body receivers and shifty guys who can move in space, out offense could be explosive again. I’ll take a qb who can throw 20 yards on a rope with accuracy over a bomb guy any day.

In theory, I think their receiver recruiting philosophy makes sense.

Let’s look back at Chandler’s first year playing as a frosh...there were many with doubt then too.


(03-01-2018 10:11 AM)UnknownScout Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:21 PM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 09:37 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  If Childers can't throw it doesn't matter. He had more bad moments throwing than good moments if my memory is correct. He threw one pop up pass I still get can't out of my head. His arm is crap until he proves otherwise.

+1000. I’m scrolling through all these WR posts thinking to myself “pretty soon someone is going to realize that most WRs are only as good as the guy throwing to him”. Thanks, p-dog!!

I have a hard time believing that Childers is going to get that much of a gain in arm strength. I just don't think he's a good QB. He may not have turned the ball over last year, but we're going to need his arm this year to be successful, and he looked like a high school freshman out there last year with his pop flies and inaccurate passes.

Childers cannot throw 20 yards on a rope... he can do the 20 yard pop fly though.
[/quote]

Lynch and Harnish were mediocre at best passing at the beginning. Childers was essentially a True Freshman. If he doesn’t show improvement it will be either because lack drive, or lack of coaching. To say that he won’t get better is ignorant.
03-01-2018 09:24 PM
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armour248 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-01-2018 09:24 PM)BDB5yp Wrote:  To say that he won’t get better is ignorant.

Yeah, not really. Some guys just aren't good at throwing a football. He can be incredibly dedicated and get great coaching...it doesn't mean he'll see massive gains in his abilities
03-01-2018 10:14 PM
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Suptroop Offline
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Post: #25
RE: One less WR for 2018....
In my opinion he has the tools to be a good qb in our system. Not an all star, but a player who makes up for his lack of natural ability with intangibles. He’s definitely shown some of it. His biggest issue was consistency.

I’m not saying he’s going to be great or even will be our qb in two years, just that for his first year he did well.

Now personally I don’t think Santa fit the system they wanted to use but I think he would have been an all conference guy down the road. I’m a Childers supporter but think they gave up on Santa too soon.

And I’m betting Hall will be at receiver before the start of next season.

(03-01-2018 10:14 PM)armour248 Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 09:24 PM)BDB5yp Wrote:  To say that he won’t get better is ignorant.

Yeah, not really. Some guys just aren't good at throwing a football. He can be incredibly dedicated and get great coaching...it doesn't mean he'll see massive gains in his abilities
03-02-2018 04:18 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #26
RE: One less WR for 2018....
When Lynch and Harnish were struggling at the beginnings of their career, you could see an upside they had so you lived with the mistakes. Even Hare, whom I thought couldn't throw well at first, made plays as he played through inexperience. With Childers I don't see an upside. What worries me is he may be like Graham. Graham had no upside and hence never improved.

I'm not saying Childers can't improve, I'm saying I can't see where he will improve. A young QB usually needs to improv by eliminating mistakes. Childers already doesn't make many mistakes. He just seems limited as a QB.
03-02-2018 07:57 AM
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Splooie99 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-02-2018 07:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  When Lynch and Harnish were struggling at the beginnings of their career, you could see an upside they had so you lived with the mistakes. Even Hare, whom I thought couldn't throw well at first, made plays as he played through inexperience. With Childers I don't see an upside. What worries me is he may be like Graham. Graham had no upside and hence never improved.

I'm not saying Childers can't improve, I'm saying I can't see where he will improve. A young QB usually needs to improve by eliminating mistakes. Childers already doesn't make many mistakes. He just seems limited as a QB.

This pretty much sums up my expectations as well. Harnish got 4 years. Lynch only 2. But, they both improved as they played each year.

My heart says he will not show the amount of improvement we need to win at any of our OOC games. Trust me, I would love to be wrong. This years team will only be as good as Childers allows them to be. I believe our D will keep us in the games for 3 quarters, but that alone will not be enough.

Carey bet the future of the team on Childers. With Carey's track record, I am not sure it was the right move long term.

Our problem will continue to be QB issues until we recruit better.
03-02-2018 09:37 AM
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Post: #28
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-02-2018 09:37 AM)Splooie99 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 07:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  When Lynch and Harnish were struggling at the beginnings of their career, you could see an upside they had so you lived with the mistakes. Even Hare, whom I thought couldn't throw well at first, made plays as he played through inexperience. With Childers I don't see an upside. What worries me is he may be like Graham. Graham had no upside and hence never improved.

I'm not saying Childers can't improve, I'm saying I can't see where he will improve. A young QB usually needs to improve by eliminating mistakes. Childers already doesn't make many mistakes. He just seems limited as a QB.

This pretty much sums up my expectations as well. Harnish got 4 years. Lynch only 2. But, they both improved as they played each year.

My heart says he will not show the amount of improvement we need to win at any of our OOC games. Trust me, I would love to be wrong. This years team will only be as good as Childers allows them to be. I believe our D will keep us in the games for 3 quarters, but that alone will not be enough.

Carey bet the future of the team on Childers. With Carey's track record, I am not sure it was the right move long term.

Our problem will continue to be QB issues until we recruit better.

Yep. Other MAC teams do not seem to have a problem recruiting QBs. It seems like Carey is looking for that magic Lynch-like diamond-in-the-rough that is a decent passer and superb runner. This is a Holy Grail that he may not find for quite some time. In the meantime, he needs to bring in someone who can pass the ball. Just being a good runner is not good enough because opposing teams will just stack the box. Without a passing game, you waste decent WRs, and 3-and-outs become easier. If he's going to stick with a run-first QB, I'd like to see the triple option, but I know that's too much to ask.
03-02-2018 09:47 AM
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armour248 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-02-2018 09:47 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  In the meantime, he needs to bring in someone who can pass the ball. Just being a good runner is not good enough because opposing teams will just stack the box. Without a passing game, you waste decent WRs, and 3-and-outs become easier. If he's going to stick with a run-first QB, I'd like to see the triple option, but I know that's too much to ask.

Santa could throw the ball but didn't fit the offense. Carey is apparently huge on protecting the ball but somehow doesn't mind running fake punts from his own red zone. Go figure.
03-02-2018 10:10 AM
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BDB5yp Offline
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Post: #30
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-02-2018 10:10 AM)armour248 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:47 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  In the meantime, he needs to bring in someone who can pass the ball. Just being a good runner is not good enough because opposing teams will just stack the box. Without a passing game, you waste decent WRs, and 3-and-outs become easier. If he's going to stick with a run-first QB, I'd like to see the triple option, but I know that's too much to ask.

Santa could throw the ball but didn't fit the offense. Carey is apparently huge on protecting the ball but somehow doesn't mind running fake punts from his own red zone. Go figure.

I was on the Santa train. Wish he would’ve worked out. I couldn’t stand Graham as our starting QB. Glad he can no longer hold the QB position for hostage. Childers will be ready to play this year. He won’t be just a game manager that they asked him to be. Rooting for Hall to take a big step though to solidify the number 2 if Childers goes down.
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2018 01:50 PM by BDB5yp.)
03-02-2018 01:37 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-02-2018 09:47 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:37 AM)Splooie99 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 07:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  When Lynch and Harnish were struggling at the beginnings of their career, you could see an upside they had so you lived with the mistakes. Even Hare, whom I thought couldn't throw well at first, made plays as he played through inexperience. With Childers I don't see an upside. What worries me is he may be like Graham. Graham had no upside and hence never improved.

I'm not saying Childers can't improve, I'm saying I can't see where he will improve. A young QB usually needs to improve by eliminating mistakes. Childers already doesn't make many mistakes. He just seems limited as a QB.

This pretty much sums up my expectations as well. Harnish got 4 years. Lynch only 2. But, they both improved as they played each year.

My heart says he will not show the amount of improvement we need to win at any of our OOC games. Trust me, I would love to be wrong. This years team will only be as good as Childers allows them to be. I believe our D will keep us in the games for 3 quarters, but that alone will not be enough.

Carey bet the future of the team on Childers. With Carey's track record, I am not sure it was the right move long term.

Our problem will continue to be QB issues until we recruit better.

Yep. Other MAC teams do not seem to have a problem recruiting QBs. It seems like Carey is looking for that magic Lynch-like diamond-in-the-rough that is a decent passer and superb runner. This is a Holy Grail that he may not find for quite some time. In the meantime, he needs to bring in someone who can pass the ball. Just being a good runner is not good enough because opposing teams will just stack the box. Without a passing game, you waste decent WRs, and 3-and-outs become easier. If he's going to stick with a run-first QB, I'd like to see the triple option, but I know that's too much to ask.

Even being a good runner would help. We haven't really had a good runner after Lynch and Harnish. We've had decent runners, more or less.
03-02-2018 03:52 PM
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NIU05 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: One less WR for 2018....
Where did Santa end up?
03-02-2018 05:44 PM
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NIU32 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-02-2018 05:44 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  Where did Santa end up?

SEMO with Coach Tuke
03-02-2018 05:45 PM
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epasnoopy Offline
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Post: #34
RE: One less WR for 2018....
The thing with the "Childers was only a freshman" line is that I watched WMU's freshman QB who had less playing time completely outplay him. Jordan Huff dominated and was the only reason we barely won that game.
03-03-2018 07:03 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Offline
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Post: #35
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-02-2018 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:47 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:37 AM)Splooie99 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 07:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  When Lynch and Harnish were struggling at the beginnings of their career, you could see an upside they had so you lived with the mistakes. Even Hare, whom I thought couldn't throw well at first, made plays as he played through inexperience. With Childers I don't see an upside. What worries me is he may be like Graham. Graham had no upside and hence never improved.

I'm not saying Childers can't improve, I'm saying I can't see where he will improve. A young QB usually needs to improve by eliminating mistakes. Childers already doesn't make many mistakes. He just seems limited as a QB.

This pretty much sums up my expectations as well. Harnish got 4 years. Lynch only 2. But, they both improved as they played each year.

My heart says he will not show the amount of improvement we need to win at any of our OOC games. Trust me, I would love to be wrong. This years team will only be as good as Childers allows them to be. I believe our D will keep us in the games for 3 quarters, but that alone will not be enough.

Carey bet the future of the team on Childers. With Carey's track record, I am not sure it was the right move long term.

Our problem will continue to be QB issues until we recruit better.

Yep. Other MAC teams do not seem to have a problem recruiting QBs. It seems like Carey is looking for that magic Lynch-like diamond-in-the-rough that is a decent passer and superb runner. This is a Holy Grail that he may not find for quite some time. In the meantime, he needs to bring in someone who can pass the ball. Just being a good runner is not good enough because opposing teams will just stack the box. Without a passing game, you waste decent WRs, and 3-and-outs become easier. If he's going to stick with a run-first QB, I'd like to see the triple option, but I know that's too much to ask.

Even being a good runner would help. We haven't really had a good runner after Lynch and Harnish. We've had decent runners, more or less.

Maddie has to go in the good category. Hare decent. Graham and Childers average at best.

Childers will be Graham if he doesn't improve greatly:

Rushing:
Graham 127 att 413yds 3.3 avg
Childers 143 att 473yds 3.3 avg

Passing:
Graham 141/267 1561yds 16td 10int
Childers 152/265 1674yds 16td 5 int

They look like similar players to me talent wise and the numbers reflect that. Add to that the fact Graham played a much tougher list of opponents and it tells me Childers needs to make a big jump in year 2.
03-03-2018 09:00 AM
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Post: #36
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-03-2018 09:00 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:47 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:37 AM)Splooie99 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 07:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  When Lynch and Harnish were struggling at the beginnings of their career, you could see an upside they had so you lived with the mistakes. Even Hare, whom I thought couldn't throw well at first, made plays as he played through inexperience. With Childers I don't see an upside. What worries me is he may be like Graham. Graham had no upside and hence never improved.

I'm not saying Childers can't improve, I'm saying I can't see where he will improve. A young QB usually needs to improve by eliminating mistakes. Childers already doesn't make many mistakes. He just seems limited as a QB.

This pretty much sums up my expectations as well. Harnish got 4 years. Lynch only 2. But, they both improved as they played each year.

My heart says he will not show the amount of improvement we need to win at any of our OOC games. Trust me, I would love to be wrong. This years team will only be as good as Childers allows them to be. I believe our D will keep us in the games for 3 quarters, but that alone will not be enough.

Carey bet the future of the team on Childers. With Carey's track record, I am not sure it was the right move long term.

Our problem will continue to be QB issues until we recruit better.

Yep. Other MAC teams do not seem to have a problem recruiting QBs. It seems like Carey is looking for that magic Lynch-like diamond-in-the-rough that is a decent passer and superb runner. This is a Holy Grail that he may not find for quite some time. In the meantime, he needs to bring in someone who can pass the ball. Just being a good runner is not good enough because opposing teams will just stack the box. Without a passing game, you waste decent WRs, and 3-and-outs become easier. If he's going to stick with a run-first QB, I'd like to see the triple option, but I know that's too much to ask.

Even being a good runner would help. We haven't really had a good runner after Lynch and Harnish. We've had decent runners, more or less.

Maddie has to go in the good category. Hare decent. Graham and Childers average at best.

Childers will be Graham if he doesn't improve greatly:

Rushing:
Graham 127 att 413yds 3.3 avg
Childers 143 att 473yds 3.3 avg

Passing:
Graham 141/267 1561yds 16td 10int
Childers 152/265 1674yds 16td 5 int

They look like similar players to me talent wise and the numbers reflect that. Add to that the fact Graham played a much tougher list of opponents and it tells me Childers needs to make a big jump in year 2.

Yea you're right, Maddie was pretty good.
03-04-2018 09:59 AM
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Post: #37
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-02-2018 01:37 PM)BDB5yp Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 10:10 AM)armour248 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:47 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  In the meantime, he needs to bring in someone who can pass the ball. Just being a good runner is not good enough because opposing teams will just stack the box. Without a passing game, you waste decent WRs, and 3-and-outs become easier. If he's going to stick with a run-first QB, I'd like to see the triple option, but I know that's too much to ask.

Santa could throw the ball but didn't fit the offense. Carey is apparently huge on protecting the ball but somehow doesn't mind running fake punts from his own red zone. Go figure.

I was on the Santa train. Wish he would’ve worked out. I couldn’t stand Graham as our starting QB. Glad he can no longer hold the QB position for hostage. Childers will be ready to play this year. He won’t be just a game manager that they asked him to be. Rooting for Hall to take a big step though to solidify the number 2 if Childers goes down.

In basically 4.5 games Santa had 80 completions in 135 attempts a completion % of 59.3; 1073 yards 8TDs 7 INTs 135.2 rating. A 4-1 record including a win at Nebraska. In his first half of play against EMU he gaine 90+ yards rushing. These
stats basically got him nailed to the bench. Amazing.
03-04-2018 07:48 PM
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Post: #38
RE: One less WR for 2018....
(03-03-2018 09:00 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 03:52 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:47 AM)Dog Fan Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 09:37 AM)Splooie99 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 07:57 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  When Lynch and Harnish were struggling at the beginnings of their career, you could see an upside they had so you lived with the mistakes. Even Hare, whom I thought couldn't throw well at first, made plays as he played through inexperience. With Childers I don't see an upside. What worries me is he may be like Graham. Graham had no upside and hence never improved.

I'm not saying Childers can't improve, I'm saying I can't see where he will improve. A young QB usually needs to improve by eliminating mistakes. Childers already doesn't make many mistakes. He just seems limited as a QB.

This pretty much sums up my expectations as well. Harnish got 4 years. Lynch only 2. But, they both improved as they played each year.

My heart says he will not show the amount of improvement we need to win at any of our OOC games. Trust me, I would love to be wrong. This years team will only be as good as Childers allows them to be. I believe our D will keep us in the games for 3 quarters, but that alone will not be enough.

Carey bet the future of the team on Childers. With Carey's track record, I am not sure it was the right move long term.

Our problem will continue to be QB issues until we recruit better.

Yep. Other MAC teams do not seem to have a problem recruiting QBs. It seems like Carey is looking for that magic Lynch-like diamond-in-the-rough that is a decent passer and superb runner. This is a Holy Grail that he may not find for quite some time. In the meantime, he needs to bring in someone who can pass the ball. Just being a good runner is not good enough because opposing teams will just stack the box. Without a passing game, you waste decent WRs, and 3-and-outs become easier. If he's going to stick with a run-first QB, I'd like to see the triple option, but I know that's too much to ask.

Even being a good runner would help. We haven't really had a good runner after Lynch and Harnish. We've had decent runners, more or less.

Maddie has to go in the good category. Hare decent. Graham and Childers average at best.

Childers will be Graham if he doesn't improve greatly:

Rushing:
Graham 127 att 413yds 3.3 avg
Childers 143 att 473yds 3.3 avg

Passing:
Graham 141/267 1561yds 16td 10int
Childers 152/265 1674yds 16td 5 int

They look like similar players to me talent wise and the numbers reflect that. Add to that the fact Graham played a much tougher list of opponents and it tells me Childers needs to make a big jump in year 2.

Huge difference in the TD to INT ratio.
03-05-2018 07:00 AM
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