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LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
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solohawks Offline
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Post: #41
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(02-28-2018 01:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:44 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:04 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 08:11 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Even if the G League paid a good enough wage, it would be hard to replicate the media attention a star college athlete currently receives. Intangibles like that are hard to quantify.

Unless fans figure out the next NBA superstar is playing in the G League instead of the next career journeyman. Won't be the same media level but it would do wonders for the G League tv deal.

Maybe. I think a successful minor league with the best talent would still pale in comparison to collegiate sports. G League teams aren't going to get the attendance and passionate fanbases that truly care like collegiate athletics have. You take the current UNC tarheel lineup and put them in Greensboro G League jerseys. They won't draw like the Tar heels do. The jersey matters

Take the UNC Miami game last night. Same rosters same exact game. G League Greensboro losing to G League Tampa doesn't mean squat and no one would care outside basketball diehards

Even if true, that's missing the point of a G League or AAA baseball. The point is to develop potential big-league talent, not to rival the popularity of NBA or MLB games.

Also, if the NBA was serious about a cost-effective minor league, it wouldn't mimic the one team per city approach that minor league baseball has. It should be structured like NBA summer league, with several teams playing against each other in the same city. Have three "G leagues" of 10 teams each, with each league based in a city that doesn't have an NBA team. Las Vegas is the obvious choice for a western league; other cities should be chosen on the basis of having a suitable arena available for the league to use on a regular basis for the entire basketball season. Kansas City could be one such place because it has a large arena that doesn't house an NBA or NHL team.

But how do You get star players to play in the G League over the NCAA without significant financial incentive. And how do you provide that financial incentive without the media money the NCAA schools currently have?
02-28-2018 09:53 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #42
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(02-28-2018 09:53 PM)solohawks Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 01:16 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:44 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:04 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 08:11 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Even if the G League paid a good enough wage, it would be hard to replicate the media attention a star college athlete currently receives. Intangibles like that are hard to quantify.

Unless fans figure out the next NBA superstar is playing in the G League instead of the next career journeyman. Won't be the same media level but it would do wonders for the G League tv deal.

Maybe. I think a successful minor league with the best talent would still pale in comparison to collegiate sports. G League teams aren't going to get the attendance and passionate fanbases that truly care like collegiate athletics have. You take the current UNC tarheel lineup and put them in Greensboro G League jerseys. They won't draw like the Tar heels do. The jersey matters

Take the UNC Miami game last night. Same rosters same exact game. G League Greensboro losing to G League Tampa doesn't mean squat and no one would care outside basketball diehards

Even if true, that's missing the point of a G League or AAA baseball. The point is to develop potential big-league talent, not to rival the popularity of NBA or MLB games.

Also, if the NBA was serious about a cost-effective minor league, it wouldn't mimic the one team per city approach that minor league baseball has. It should be structured like NBA summer league, with several teams playing against each other in the same city. Have three "G leagues" of 10 teams each, with each league based in a city that doesn't have an NBA team. Las Vegas is the obvious choice for a western league; other cities should be chosen on the basis of having a suitable arena available for the league to use on a regular basis for the entire basketball season. Kansas City could be one such place because it has a large arena that doesn't house an NBA or NHL team.

But how do You get star players to play in the G League over the NCAA without significant financial incentive. And how do you provide that financial incentive without the media money the NCAA schools currently have?

The G League isn't about star players as much as it is about developing reliable role players. I was surprised to learn the league will now have 300+ players this year. If you assume all the one and done players in any given year opt to join the G League, that's still less than 10% of the rosters.

My recommendation to the NBA would be to change their draft rules such that nobody has to "declare" for the draft. Every high school graduate is eligible to be drafted. If you want to draft a player straight out of high school, you must use your first round pick to do it. If he opts to go to college, you retain the right to sign him for three years. If he opts to turn pro, he is assigned to the G League for a minimum of one year, with a salary in the $100K range.

After that initial year, the team that drafted him can sign him to a regular NBA contract if they think he is ready, or give him a two-way contract that allows him to play a certain number of games in the big league.

This way, high school players with unreasonable expectations who don't get drafted can still play in college if they haven't otherwise done something to jeopardize their eligibility. Once in school, they can still be drafted, but again only by using a first round (guaranteed contract) pick if they still have eligibility. If they still opt to stay in school after being drafted, the drafting team retains their rights until their college eligibility is used up.

For its part, the NCAA should relax its rules to allow any player to have an agent/financial adviser as long as he doesn't sign a professional contract, either with the NBA/G League or an overseas team.
02-28-2018 10:17 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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Post: #43
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(02-28-2018 03:35 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 04:44 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 04:35 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 03:38 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I 100% agree with him. There's no reason to force players to become "student-athletes" for one year if they want to go to the NBA.

Losing 10-20 one-and-done players will not hurt college basketball; on the contrary it will be a good thing. NCAA basketball did quite well before the NBA instituted an age limit in 2006.

Not really. It lost out on tons of players who had no business entering the draft.

Can anybody name any of those players? And how many is a ton? Losing out on those players doesn't seem to have diminished the popularity of college basketball very much, if at all. It could probably be said of some of those players that they had no business entering college either.

A ton = 2000 lbs. Assuming each player weighs between 200 and 250 pounds, then five or four players. Actually, shorter varsity eligibility might help. Make the kids play a year of freshman ball before they ascend to the heights, just like in the old days. The "student athletes" have a year to prove themselves academically and on the court or field (football). If they can't do either, those are the breaks.

No, it would be more like 8-10 players per ton. 03-wink
02-28-2018 10:31 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(02-28-2018 01:01 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:44 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:04 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 08:11 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Even if the G League paid a good enough wage, it would be hard to replicate the media attention a star college athlete currently receives. Intangibles like that are hard to quantify.

Unless fans figure out the next NBA superstar is playing in the G League instead of the next career journeyman. Won't be the same media level but it would do wonders for the G League tv deal.

Maybe. I think a successful minor league with the best talent would still pale in comparison to collegiate sports. G League teams aren't going to get the attendance and passionate fanbases that truly care like collegiate athletics have. You take the current UNC tarheel lineup and put them in Greensboro G League jerseys. They won't draw like the Tar heels do. The jersey matters

Take the UNC Miami game last night. Same rosters same exact game. G League Greensboro losing to G League Tampa doesn't mean squat and no one would care outside basketball diehards

I agree. College basketball and college football have a combination of (a) the top talent at *their* level and (b) the ingrained passion of people with their respective colleges. That combination creates a "1 + 1 = 3" scenario where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. In contrast, minor league baseball provides (a) but doesn't provide (b). College baseball is the opposite where it has (b) on paper but doesn't provide (a). That's why a large portion of SportsCenter every night is taken up by talking about college basketball and football... and there typically isn't a single mention of minor league baseball outside of when a MLB star does a rehab stint.

Minor league basketball and football simply will NOT have any more interest compared to minor league baseball or hockey. It just won't happen and we shouldn't even pretend that it's possible. What college basketball and football have is that special combination of talent plus fan passion that makes them special and that will never be replicated at a minor league level.

The 1+1=3 truly gets to the heart of the matter. These kids aren't interested in really going to a minor league unless the money is substantial (+150K). Since there isn't a minor league system that generates that income, they want to extract that salary from an organization that does monetize minor league sports effectively. $100K while hanging around a college campus is IMO the deal they are looking for.
03-01-2018 07:28 AM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #45
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
It's not just the NCAA. College is corrupt in general and has not adapted to the times. Thousands of students go to these expensive schools and can't find jobs after they finish. Unless they are in a specialized field like engineering or medicine.

I look back on my situation and I personally wish that I didn't go to college. I got into my career before I finish school and they never have even wanted to see my degree..
03-01-2018 07:53 AM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #46
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(03-01-2018 07:53 AM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  It's not just the NCAA. College is corrupt in general and has not adapted to the times. Thousands of students go to these expensive schools and can't find jobs after they finish. Unless they are in a specialized field like engineering or medicine.

I look back on my situation and I personally wish that I didn't go to college. I got into my career before I finish school and they never have even wanted to see my degree..

Yeah, my generation was told this lie that you HAD to go to college or you'd end up broke. Meanwhile some of my peers who learned HVAC or plumbing are doing quite well for themselves.
(This post was last modified: 03-01-2018 09:46 AM by Chappy.)
03-01-2018 09:46 AM
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Post: #47
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(03-01-2018 07:28 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 01:01 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 11:44 AM)solohawks Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:04 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 08:11 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Even if the G League paid a good enough wage, it would be hard to replicate the media attention a star college athlete currently receives. Intangibles like that are hard to quantify.

Unless fans figure out the next NBA superstar is playing in the G League instead of the next career journeyman. Won't be the same media level but it would do wonders for the G League tv deal.

Maybe. I think a successful minor league with the best talent would still pale in comparison to collegiate sports. G League teams aren't going to get the attendance and passionate fanbases that truly care like collegiate athletics have. You take the current UNC tarheel lineup and put them in Greensboro G League jerseys. They won't draw like the Tar heels do. The jersey matters

Take the UNC Miami game last night. Same rosters same exact game. G League Greensboro losing to G League Tampa doesn't mean squat and no one would care outside basketball diehards

I agree. College basketball and college football have a combination of (a) the top talent at *their* level and (b) the ingrained passion of people with their respective colleges. That combination creates a "1 + 1 = 3" scenario where the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. In contrast, minor league baseball provides (a) but doesn't provide (b). College baseball is the opposite where it has (b) on paper but doesn't provide (a). That's why a large portion of SportsCenter every night is taken up by talking about college basketball and football... and there typically isn't a single mention of minor league baseball outside of when a MLB star does a rehab stint.

Minor league basketball and football simply will NOT have any more interest compared to minor league baseball or hockey. It just won't happen and we shouldn't even pretend that it's possible. What college basketball and football have is that special combination of talent plus fan passion that makes them special and that will never be replicated at a minor league level.

The 1+1=3 truly gets to the heart of the matter. These kids aren't interested in really going to a minor league unless the money is substantial (+150K). Since there isn't a minor league system that generates that income, they want to extract that salary from an organization that does monetize minor league sports effectively. $100K while hanging around a college campus is IMO the deal they are looking for.

NBA teams are subsidizing G League salaries and players in baseball often get million+ signing bonuses before heading to rookie league ball.
Spending $3 million of NBA money to sign the 20 best high school prospects to play a year of G League ball and weed out the weak and identify the stars is a cheap investment.
03-01-2018 11:07 AM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #48
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(02-28-2018 10:31 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 03:35 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 04:44 PM)ken d Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 04:35 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(02-27-2018 03:38 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  I 100% agree with him. There's no reason to force players to become "student-athletes" for one year if they want to go to the NBA.

Losing 10-20 one-and-done players will not hurt college basketball; on the contrary it will be a good thing. NCAA basketball did quite well before the NBA instituted an age limit in 2006.

Not really. It lost out on tons of players who had no business entering the draft.

Can anybody name any of those players? And how many is a ton? Losing out on those players doesn't seem to have diminished the popularity of college basketball very much, if at all. It could probably be said of some of those players that they had no business entering college either.

A ton = 2000 lbs. Assuming each player weighs between 200 and 250 pounds, then five or four players. Actually, shorter varsity eligibility might help. Make the kids play a year of freshman ball before they ascend to the heights, just like in the old days. The "student athletes" have a year to prove themselves academically and on the court or field (football). If they can't do either, those are the breaks.

No, it would be more like 8-10 players per ton. 03-wink

Touche.
03-01-2018 11:10 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #49
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(03-01-2018 07:28 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  These kids aren't interested in really going to a minor league unless the money is substantial (+150K). Since there isn't a minor league system that generates that income, they want to extract that salary from an organization that does monetize minor league sports effectively. $100K while hanging around a college campus is IMO the deal they are looking for.

That deal is $100,000 plus they only have to stay in college for 7 months before they can start taking more money and taking it openly.

If you take away either of those two components the deal falls apart. If the NBA draft rules were like the MLB draft rules, then players would have to choose between turning pro out of HS or staying in college for 3 years. The shoe companies and agents aren't going to pay a player that much cash throughout 3 years in college; they're paying now based on the 7 or 8 month turnaround between payment and getting the player to sign pro contracts. If players had to stay for 3 years, the agents and shoe companies wouldn't chase after them until their final college season.

Take away the shoe/agent deals for one-and-done players, make HS players eligible for pro basketball, and then there will be many players interested in going from HS to the G league. For that matter, the shoe companies and agents can sign the G league players and supplement the G league salary. That money will just go to G league players instead of one-and-done players.
03-01-2018 12:38 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(02-27-2018 03:30 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Maybe its not a horrible idea.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

I agree. Let’s look into this, it’s not like the schools you and me went to will be hurt as the cartel has already taken care of that. I could see why Cartel 5 fans on here would hate this idea....so I like it.
03-01-2018 05:01 PM
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Post: #51
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(02-28-2018 03:00 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:04 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 08:11 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Even if the G League paid a good enough wage, it would be hard to replicate the media attention a star college athlete currently receives. Intangibles like that are hard to quantify.

Unless fans figure out the next NBA superstar is playing in the G League instead of the next career journeyman. Won't be the same media level but it would do wonders for the G League tv deal.

The difference is that the next NBA superstar wouldn't ever spend time in the G League - they'd head directly to the NBA club just like Kobe, LeBron and Dwight Howard did before them.

The other complexity is that the stakes of making a correct pick in the NBA Draft (especially at the top of the lottery) are *insanely* high compared to the NFL and MLB. It's never great to whiff on a first round draft pick in the NFL or MLB, but winning in those sports still require so much depth that you can make it up with good picks in later rounds of the draft and/or free agency and keep your franchise on track.

What makes the NBA different is that making the right or wrong top pick can truly be franchise altering for a decade or more. The Pistons would have been a dynasty on the level of the Spurs or Lakers if they had picked *anyone* in the top 5 of the NBA Draft other than their choice of Darko Milicic. The NBA is a megastar league and you're not winning without a top 10 player (or more appropriately, multiple top 10 players).

As a big fan of both the NBA and college basketball, I do think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture as to why it's inherently different than the draft processes for other sports. It's easy enough to say that the 1-and-done rule is bad or that there should be a separate minor league system or that there should be a baseball-type rule where you can either enter the draft out of high school or go to college for 2 years. The challenge with any of those thoughts is that it doesn't really address the core issue: when the stakes are so much more dramatically higher for an NBA draft pick compared to an NFL/MLB draft pick both for the players and the teams, it means that the incentives and disincentives are so out of whack that you basically have roulette wheel behavior (which results in guys like Sebastian Telfair and Jonathan Bender getting drafted out of high school or, even worse undrafted high schoolers that lose their college eligibility forever, which all occurred prior to the 1-and-done era).

I just think a lot of people have collective amnesia of how bad the period prior to the 1-and-done era was for both the NBA and college basketball. There were too many high school kids that sincerely believed that they were going to be top 10 players declaring for the draft, which drained the college basketball talent pool. At the same time, there were too many NBA executives placing roulette bets on untested high school kids to be the next LeBron (and once again, that's no big deal in MLB where you have dozens of draft picks per year, but a franchise-altering-for-decades deal when you're getting a top NBA lottery pick only once every few years in a lot of cases). I'm not saying that I like the 1-and-done rule, but the free for all of high school kids declaring for the NBA Draft was really bad for basketball all around at the top levels.

So, I don't really have a great answer, but that's what I see as the core issue. Ultimately, the NBA should be doing what's best for the NBA. They're the ones with the product that has franchises worth billions of dollars each, so they should have the power to impose as many or as few restrictions on who can get drafted as they see fit for their business. As long as the NCAA doesn't pay its players, they can only be bystanders on this issue.

Frank, I don't remember pre-2005 being "really bad" for the NBA OR colleges.

It definitely wasn't bad for colleges. College basketball fans never knew what they were missing.

And for the NBA, it just made the draft more of a gamble. Why is that a bad thing? It lowered the value of a draft pick in trade negotiations, which is a good thing. It also favored teams that did their homework and had good coaches - again, a good thing.

The people it hurt (high school players who went undrafted) could easily be taken care of by saying that all high school players are eligible, but if they're drafted then that team has exclusive rights to them for 3 years.
03-02-2018 05:34 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(03-01-2018 12:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 07:28 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  These kids aren't interested in really going to a minor league unless the money is substantial (+150K). Since there isn't a minor league system that generates that income, they want to extract that salary from an organization that does monetize minor league sports effectively. $100K while hanging around a college campus is IMO the deal they are looking for.

That deal is $100,000 plus they only have to stay in college for 7 months before they can start taking more money and taking it openly.

If you take away either of those two components the deal falls apart. If the NBA draft rules were like the MLB draft rules, then players would have to choose between turning pro out of HS or staying in college for 3 years. The shoe companies and agents aren't going to pay a player that much cash throughout 3 years in college; they're paying now based on the 7 or 8 month turnaround between payment and getting the player to sign pro contracts. If players had to stay for 3 years, the agents and shoe companies wouldn't chase after them until their final college season.

Take away the shoe/agent deals for one-and-done players, make HS players eligible for pro basketball, and then there will be many players interested in going from HS to the G league. For that matter, the shoe companies and agents can sign the G league players and supplement the G league salary. That money will just go to G league players instead of one-and-done players.

I think what MBB needs is the college baseball attitude from players that choose that path more than anything. Because even if the G-League take the top 30 players yearly, that's still over 4000 players attending college. Even without that top talent, MBB is still going to generate money. Thus you haven't actually changed the issue, they still see the game their play as generating revenue and want a piece of that pie, regardless of if the fans or TV viewers are simply cheering for laundry.
03-02-2018 07:40 PM
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vandiver49 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(03-02-2018 05:34 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 03:00 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:04 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 08:11 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Even if the G League paid a good enough wage, it would be hard to replicate the media attention a star college athlete currently receives. Intangibles like that are hard to quantify.

Unless fans figure out the next NBA superstar is playing in the G League instead of the next career journeyman. Won't be the same media level but it would do wonders for the G League tv deal.

The difference is that the next NBA superstar wouldn't ever spend time in the G League - they'd head directly to the NBA club just like Kobe, LeBron and Dwight Howard did before them.

The other complexity is that the stakes of making a correct pick in the NBA Draft (especially at the top of the lottery) are *insanely* high compared to the NFL and MLB. It's never great to whiff on a first round draft pick in the NFL or MLB, but winning in those sports still require so much depth that you can make it up with good picks in later rounds of the draft and/or free agency and keep your franchise on track.

What makes the NBA different is that making the right or wrong top pick can truly be franchise altering for a decade or more. The Pistons would have been a dynasty on the level of the Spurs or Lakers if they had picked *anyone* in the top 5 of the NBA Draft other than their choice of Darko Milicic. The NBA is a megastar league and you're not winning without a top 10 player (or more appropriately, multiple top 10 players).

As a big fan of both the NBA and college basketball, I do think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture as to why it's inherently different than the draft processes for other sports. It's easy enough to say that the 1-and-done rule is bad or that there should be a separate minor league system or that there should be a baseball-type rule where you can either enter the draft out of high school or go to college for 2 years. The challenge with any of those thoughts is that it doesn't really address the core issue: when the stakes are so much more dramatically higher for an NBA draft pick compared to an NFL/MLB draft pick both for the players and the teams, it means that the incentives and disincentives are so out of whack that you basically have roulette wheel behavior (which results in guys like Sebastian Telfair and Jonathan Bender getting drafted out of high school or, even worse undrafted high schoolers that lose their college eligibility forever, which all occurred prior to the 1-and-done era).

I just think a lot of people have collective amnesia of how bad the period prior to the 1-and-done era was for both the NBA and college basketball. There were too many high school kids that sincerely believed that they were going to be top 10 players declaring for the draft, which drained the college basketball talent pool. At the same time, there were too many NBA executives placing roulette bets on untested high school kids to be the next LeBron (and once again, that's no big deal in MLB where you have dozens of draft picks per year, but a franchise-altering-for-decades deal when you're getting a top NBA lottery pick only once every few years in a lot of cases). I'm not saying that I like the 1-and-done rule, but the free for all of high school kids declaring for the NBA Draft was really bad for basketball all around at the top levels.

So, I don't really have a great answer, but that's what I see as the core issue. Ultimately, the NBA should be doing what's best for the NBA. They're the ones with the product that has franchises worth billions of dollars each, so they should have the power to impose as many or as few restrictions on who can get drafted as they see fit for their business. As long as the NCAA doesn't pay its players, they can only be bystanders on this issue.

Frank, I don't remember pre-2005 being "really bad" for the NBA OR colleges.

It definitely wasn't bad for colleges. College basketball fans never knew what they were missing.

And for the NBA, it just made the draft more of a gamble. Why is that a bad thing? It lowered the value of a draft pick in trade negotiations, which is a good thing. It also favored teams that did their homework and had good coaches - again, a good thing.

The people it hurt (high school players who went undrafted) could easily be taken care of by saying that all high school players are eligible, but if they're drafted then that team has exclusive rights to them for 3 years.

I agree with Frank on this one. The post -Jordan NBA prior to the ascension of Shaq/Kobe (the Iverson Era) was particularly weak in terms of stars and play.
03-02-2018 07:43 PM
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Post: #54
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
What if the NBA devised a two-round high school draft? Players who declared for this draft and weren't selected would be allowed to keep their collegiate eligibility. Teams would own the rights to any high school draftee they selected for 4 years. Players would receive hefty signing bonuses and contracts structured such that if they played in more than half of the regular season games with the parent team (rather than the G League team) a clause would trigger that gave them the same pay as if they had been picked in the regular draft. Players who opted not to sign would be obliged to play for the team that selected them in the HS draft until the 4 year window ended.
03-02-2018 07:55 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #55
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(03-02-2018 07:40 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 12:38 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-01-2018 07:28 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  These kids aren't interested in really going to a minor league unless the money is substantial (+150K). Since there isn't a minor league system that generates that income, they want to extract that salary from an organization that does monetize minor league sports effectively. $100K while hanging around a college campus is IMO the deal they are looking for.

That deal is $100,000 plus they only have to stay in college for 7 months before they can start taking more money and taking it openly.

If you take away either of those two components the deal falls apart. If the NBA draft rules were like the MLB draft rules, then players would have to choose between turning pro out of HS or staying in college for 3 years. The shoe companies and agents aren't going to pay a player that much cash throughout 3 years in college; they're paying now based on the 7 or 8 month turnaround between payment and getting the player to sign pro contracts. If players had to stay for 3 years, the agents and shoe companies wouldn't chase after them until their final college season.

Take away the shoe/agent deals for one-and-done players, make HS players eligible for pro basketball, and then there will be many players interested in going from HS to the G league. For that matter, the shoe companies and agents can sign the G league players and supplement the G league salary. That money will just go to G league players instead of one-and-done players.

I think what MBB needs is the college baseball attitude from players that choose that path more than anything. Because even if the G-League take the top 30 players yearly, that's still over 4000 players attending college. Even without that top talent, MBB is still going to generate money. Thus you haven't actually changed the issue, they still see the game their play as generating revenue and want a piece of that pie, regardless of if the fans or TV viewers are simply cheering for laundry.

A big part of the college baseball attitude is that those who choose college know that the alternative is playing in A ball for $1500/month or less and taking long bus rides between small towns all summer. G-League players make at least $19,500/year and don't have to bus to away games, and the best of them get "two-way" contracts that pay $75,000 and allow the NBA club to call up the player for up to 45 days.

It's been suggested that NBA teams be allowed to have one G-League roster spot for a player who has just finished high school and who would be paid at the two-way rate.
03-02-2018 09:17 PM
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Post: #56
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(03-02-2018 07:43 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  
(03-02-2018 05:34 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 03:00 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 10:04 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-28-2018 08:11 AM)solohawks Wrote:  Even if the G League paid a good enough wage, it would be hard to replicate the media attention a star college athlete currently receives. Intangibles like that are hard to quantify.

Unless fans figure out the next NBA superstar is playing in the G League instead of the next career journeyman. Won't be the same media level but it would do wonders for the G League tv deal.

The difference is that the next NBA superstar wouldn't ever spend time in the G League - they'd head directly to the NBA club just like Kobe, LeBron and Dwight Howard did before them.

The other complexity is that the stakes of making a correct pick in the NBA Draft (especially at the top of the lottery) are *insanely* high compared to the NFL and MLB. It's never great to whiff on a first round draft pick in the NFL or MLB, but winning in those sports still require so much depth that you can make it up with good picks in later rounds of the draft and/or free agency and keep your franchise on track.

What makes the NBA different is that making the right or wrong top pick can truly be franchise altering for a decade or more. The Pistons would have been a dynasty on the level of the Spurs or Lakers if they had picked *anyone* in the top 5 of the NBA Draft other than their choice of Darko Milicic. The NBA is a megastar league and you're not winning without a top 10 player (or more appropriately, multiple top 10 players).

As a big fan of both the NBA and college basketball, I do think people need to step back and look at the bigger picture as to why it's inherently different than the draft processes for other sports. It's easy enough to say that the 1-and-done rule is bad or that there should be a separate minor league system or that there should be a baseball-type rule where you can either enter the draft out of high school or go to college for 2 years. The challenge with any of those thoughts is that it doesn't really address the core issue: when the stakes are so much more dramatically higher for an NBA draft pick compared to an NFL/MLB draft pick both for the players and the teams, it means that the incentives and disincentives are so out of whack that you basically have roulette wheel behavior (which results in guys like Sebastian Telfair and Jonathan Bender getting drafted out of high school or, even worse undrafted high schoolers that lose their college eligibility forever, which all occurred prior to the 1-and-done era).

I just think a lot of people have collective amnesia of how bad the period prior to the 1-and-done era was for both the NBA and college basketball. There were too many high school kids that sincerely believed that they were going to be top 10 players declaring for the draft, which drained the college basketball talent pool. At the same time, there were too many NBA executives placing roulette bets on untested high school kids to be the next LeBron (and once again, that's no big deal in MLB where you have dozens of draft picks per year, but a franchise-altering-for-decades deal when you're getting a top NBA lottery pick only once every few years in a lot of cases). I'm not saying that I like the 1-and-done rule, but the free for all of high school kids declaring for the NBA Draft was really bad for basketball all around at the top levels.

So, I don't really have a great answer, but that's what I see as the core issue. Ultimately, the NBA should be doing what's best for the NBA. They're the ones with the product that has franchises worth billions of dollars each, so they should have the power to impose as many or as few restrictions on who can get drafted as they see fit for their business. As long as the NCAA doesn't pay its players, they can only be bystanders on this issue.

Frank, I don't remember pre-2005 being "really bad" for the NBA OR colleges.

It definitely wasn't bad for colleges. College basketball fans never knew what they were missing.

And for the NBA, it just made the draft more of a gamble. Why is that a bad thing? It lowered the value of a draft pick in trade negotiations, which is a good thing. It also favored teams that did their homework and had good coaches - again, a good thing.

The people it hurt (high school players who went undrafted) could easily be taken care of by saying that all high school players are eligible, but if they're drafted then that team has exclusive rights to them for 3 years.

I agree with Frank on this one. The post -Jordan NBA prior to the ascension of Shaq/Kobe (the Iverson Era) was particularly weak in terms of stars and play.

Shaq/Kobe started in 1996-97, which was the year of Jordan's 5th title. Only one year passed between Jordan's 6th title (97-98) and Shaq/Kobe's 1st (99-00). Iverson won his only MVP award the next year (00-01).

So the "era" you're talking about was like 1-2 years.
03-06-2018 12:50 PM
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Post: #57
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
If I ran the NBA, I would establish an invitation-only academy where we would invite the top 25-50 graduating high school prospects each year. They'd spend one year on-site working out, scrimmaging, taking classes on things like health and finance, and being evaluated by scouts from all NBA teams. They would not be paid a salary but all expenses would be covered. At the end of the year, they'd be draft eligible. Here's the part where I'd need NCAA cooperation; if they are not drafted, they could go play college ball, and hope to be drafted at a later date, but at least they'd have an opportunity to earn a degree.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2018 07:41 AM by Chappy.)
03-12-2018 07:40 AM
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Post: #58
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(03-12-2018 07:40 AM)Chappy Wrote:  If I ran the NBA, I would establish an invitation-only academy where we would invite the top 25-50 graduating high school prospects each year. They'd spend one year on-site working out, scrimmaging, taking classes on things like health and finance, and being evaluated by scouts from all NBA teams. They would not be paid a salary but all expenses would be covered. At the end of the year, they'd be draft eligible. Here's the part where I'd need NCAA cooperation; if they are not drafted, they could go play college ball, and hope to be drafted at a later date, but at least they'd have an opportunity to earn a degree.

Interesting idea but hard to monetize and not as effective as playing 50 games in the G League vs players with NBA experience or considered significant talents.
03-12-2018 07:57 AM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #59
RE: LeBron calls for NBA to develop alternative development system to NCAA
(03-12-2018 07:57 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(03-12-2018 07:40 AM)Chappy Wrote:  If I ran the NBA, I would establish an invitation-only academy where we would invite the top 25-50 graduating high school prospects each year. They'd spend one year on-site working out, scrimmaging, taking classes on things like health and finance, and being evaluated by scouts from all NBA teams. They would not be paid a salary but all expenses would be covered. At the end of the year, they'd be draft eligible. Here's the part where I'd need NCAA cooperation; if they are not drafted, they could go play college ball, and hope to be drafted at a later date, but at least they'd have an opportunity to earn a degree.

Interesting idea but hard to monetize and not as effective as playing 50 games in the G League vs players with NBA experience or considered significant talents.

While it wouldn't be making money, it would save the teams a lot of money spent on draft busts. The scouts would have unprecedented access to these players, so there'd be no excuse for making bad picks. Perhaps the league could even have G-League players come in a scrimmage with the prospects.

Additionally, this could work hand-in-hand with an expanded G-League. Once every NBA team has a full G-League affiliate, I could see the draft adding a third round and a player your scouts like but want to see more from could always be drafted and sent to the G-League after his year in the academy.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2018 08:19 AM by Chappy.)
03-12-2018 08:15 AM
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