Volente Beach Owl
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RE: Next baseball coach
1. Rice University's best interest moving forward, as determined by the Board and President
2. Rice baseball's best interest moving forward, as determined by the Athletics Director
3. Wayne Graham's personal situation
This should be (and is) the priority list / chain of command.
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04-26-2018 08:57 AM |
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westsidewolf1989
Heisman
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 08:07 AM)ranfin Wrote: (04-25-2018 04:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (04-25-2018 03:49 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: (04-25-2018 03:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: I love Lance Berkman, but if this is a power play to push Wayne aside for Berkman--as I am starting to see rumored--then I'm 100% opposed. I think Wayne has earned the right to go out with a first class sundown cruise and to name--or at least to have significant input in naming--his successor. I'm pretty sure Berkman is not the person that Wayne would choose, and if the rumors are accurate (which is a dicey proposition) I can understand Wayne's recalcitrance.
For Pete's sake, try to keep up. Graham has zero interest in a "sundown cruise," if by that you mean him graciously accepting that this is his final year.
His contract is up. There's no need to "push him aside".
I think he would if he had a significant role in picking his successor. I think he would relish the opportunity to pass the baton to someone of his choosing. And I don't think Lance would be on his short list. So if this is a power play to hand Lance the job, then I'm not in favor. And if Lance is the chosen successor, I can see why Wayne would dig in his heels.
I agree it is time for him to move on. But I also think that we owe our ver y existence as a D-1 athletic program to him, and IMO that means he deserves some special perks.
Wayne is behaving as if he’s the athletic director. He doesn’t get to chose his successor. That is the job of the athletic director.
Thank you. This "maybe Wayne should have chosen his successor" idea is totally opposite from what real businesses do. The next CEO isn't chosen by the departing CEO, it's chosen by the chairman of the board and other board members.
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04-26-2018 01:05 PM |
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Hambone10
Hooter
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 01:05 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: Thank you. This "maybe Wayne should have chosen his successor" idea is totally opposite from what real businesses do. The next CEO isn't chosen by the departing CEO, it's chosen by the chairman of the board and other board members.
True, but the Rice BOT has NEVER done this (made coaching hires) and I don't think even JK would argue that he knows better how to win at Rice Baseball than Wayne.... nor do perhaps many in the world...
Not to mention that D1 Athletics at Rice exist because of Wayne and not even Bobby who hired him. That's a little special. Wayne could have had a few top 10 finishes and still been a Rice legend.
Wayne accomplished things that no other coach selected via the traditional process in ANY sport in 50+ years could.
That doesn't by default mean that he should get to pick his successor, but it certainly should be given more credence (imo) than 'this is how others do it'.
Jimbo Fisher sure seemed to have been hand-picked, and he isn't the only example of a school engaging in 'HCIW'/Heir Apparent.
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04-26-2018 02:56 PM |
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westsidewolf1989
Heisman
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 02:56 PM)Hambone10 Wrote: (04-26-2018 01:05 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: Thank you. This "maybe Wayne should have chosen his successor" idea is totally opposite from what real businesses do. The next CEO isn't chosen by the departing CEO, it's chosen by the chairman of the board and other board members.
True, but the Rice BOT has NEVER done this (made coaching hires) and I don't think even JK would argue that he knows better how to win at Rice Baseball than Wayne.... nor do perhaps many in the world...
Not to mention that D1 Athletics at Rice exist because of Wayne and not even Bobby who hired him. That's a little special. Wayne could have had a few top 10 finishes and still been a Rice legend.
Wayne accomplished things that no other coach selected via the traditional process in ANY sport in 50+ years could.
That doesn't by default mean that he should get to pick his successor, but it certainly should be given more credence (imo) than 'this is how others do it'.
Jimbo Fisher sure seemed to have been hand-picked, and he isn't the only example of a school engaging in 'HCIW'/Heir Apparent.
Sorry, I didn't make my analogy clear. In this case, Wayne is the CEO of Rice baseball and JK is the board/chairman.
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04-26-2018 03:41 PM |
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Owl 69/70/75
Just an old rugby coach
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 01:05 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: (04-26-2018 08:07 AM)ranfin Wrote: (04-25-2018 04:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (04-25-2018 03:49 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: (04-25-2018 03:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: I love Lance Berkman, but if this is a power play to push Wayne aside for Berkman--as I am starting to see rumored--then I'm 100% opposed. I think Wayne has earned the right to go out with a first class sundown cruise and to name--or at least to have significant input in naming--his successor. I'm pretty sure Berkman is not the person that Wayne would choose, and if the rumors are accurate (which is a dicey proposition) I can understand Wayne's recalcitrance.
For Pete's sake, try to keep up. Graham has zero interest in a "sundown cruise," if by that you mean him graciously accepting that this is his final year.
His contract is up. There's no need to "push him aside".
I think he would if he had a significant role in picking his successor. I think he would relish the opportunity to pass the baton to someone of his choosing. And I don't think Lance would be on his short list. So if this is a power play to hand Lance the job, then I'm not in favor. And if Lance is the chosen successor, I can see why Wayne would dig in his heels.
I agree it is time for him to move on. But I also think that we owe our very existence as a D-1 athletic program to him, and IMO that means he deserves some special perks.
Wayne is behaving as if he’s the athletic director. He doesn’t get to chose his successor. That is the job of the athletic director.
Thank you. This "maybe Wayne should have chosen his successor" idea is totally opposite from what real businesses do. The next CEO isn't chosen by the departing CEO, it's chosen by the chairman of the board and other board members.
Ordinarily I agree 100%. But this is perhaps the most exceptional of exceptional situations. Wayne is, quite literally, the reason why Rice still has D-1 athletics. I think that earns him some exceptional privileges. I also think that it is time for him to move on, and that extraordinary measures may be necessary to accomplish that amicably. I would have extended the offer. If he refused, then I would have no reservations about doing what I thought best for the program. But I would have wanted to do it in a way that kept Wayne onboard in some capacity, if at all possible.
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04-26-2018 03:43 PM |
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cr11owl
All American
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 03:43 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (04-26-2018 01:05 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote: (04-26-2018 08:07 AM)ranfin Wrote: (04-25-2018 04:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (04-25-2018 03:49 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote: For Pete's sake, try to keep up. Graham has zero interest in a "sundown cruise," if by that you mean him graciously accepting that this is his final year.
His contract is up. There's no need to "push him aside".
I think he would if he had a significant role in picking his successor. I think he would relish the opportunity to pass the baton to someone of his choosing. And I don't think Lance would be on his short list. So if this is a power play to hand Lance the job, then I'm not in favor. And if Lance is the chosen successor, I can see why Wayne would dig in his heels.
I agree it is time for him to move on. But I also think that we owe our very existence as a D-1 athletic program to him, and IMO that means he deserves some special perks.
Wayne is behaving as if he’s the athletic director. He doesn’t get to chose his successor. That is the job of the athletic director.
Thank you. This "maybe Wayne should have chosen his successor" idea is totally opposite from what real businesses do. The next CEO isn't chosen by the departing CEO, it's chosen by the chairman of the board and other board members.
Ordinarily I agree 100%. But this is perhaps the most exceptional of exceptional situations. Wayne is, quite literally, the reason why Rice still has D-1 athletics. I think that earns him some exceptional privileges. I also think that it is time for him to move on, and that extraordinary measures may be necessary to accomplish that amicably. I would have extended the offer. If he refused, then I would have no reservations about doing what I thought best for the program. But I would have wanted to do it in a way that kept Wayne onboard in some capacity, if at all possible.
Seems like everyone is ignoring the fact he was offered a position in the athletic dept and declined...
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04-26-2018 03:45 PM |
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Hambone10
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 03:45 PM)cr11owl Wrote: Seems like everyone is ignoring the fact he was offered a position in the athletic dept and declined...
link?
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04-26-2018 03:50 PM |
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ExcitedOwl18
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RE: Next baseball coach
Glynn Hill
@RiceChron
21h21 hours ago
More
Graham asked for clarification from the department on Feb 20..the meeting where he was informed this was his final season occurred "around" April 14. Graham says the department didn't present him with any alternatives except 1 that involved him staying in a non-coaching capacity.
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04-26-2018 03:54 PM |
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interwebowl
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 03:54 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: Glynn Hill
@RiceChron
21h21 hours ago
More
Graham asked for clarification from the department on Feb 20..the meeting where he was informed this was his final season occurred "around" April 14. Graham says the department didn't present him with any alternatives except 1 that involved him staying in a non-coaching capacity.
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The position was not in athletics.
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04-26-2018 04:19 PM |
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tanqtonic
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 04:19 PM)interwebowl Wrote: (04-26-2018 03:54 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: Glynn Hill
@RiceChron
21h21 hours ago
More
Graham asked for clarification from the department on Feb 20..the meeting where he was informed this was his final season occurred "around" April 14. Graham says the department didn't present him with any alternatives except 1 that involved him staying in a non-coaching capacity.
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The position was not in athletics.
It doesnt say 'non-athletics', it says 'non-coaching'.
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04-26-2018 04:32 PM |
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Hambone10
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RE: Next baseball coach
Feb of the last year of his contract is too late
I wish I knew if this was offered 3 years ago
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2018 08:51 PM by Hambone10.)
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04-26-2018 08:49 PM |
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OldOwl
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RE: Next baseball coach
I hope Dr K uses a search firm like he has done in the past to get the best candidate for head coach. This seems to work best in the past instead if jumping on the first candidate eXpressing interest.
(This post was last modified: 04-26-2018 09:41 PM by OldOwl.)
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04-26-2018 09:39 PM |
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waltgreenberg
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 09:39 PM)OldOwl Wrote: I hope Dr K uses a search firm like he has done in the past to get the best candidate for head coach. This seems to work best in the past instead if jumping on the first candidate eXpressing interest.
My fear is that there will be no genuine search. In this one case I'd prefer a committee, but one that includes Rice alums invested in the program, starting with Jose Cruz, Jr. Unlike football and basketball, JK simply has not been a strong advocate of Rice baseball, and rarely shows up at Reckling (and only travels with the team for post-season games). Rick Mello, on the other hand, is a fixture at Reckling.
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04-26-2018 10:28 PM |
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ranfin
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 10:28 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: (04-26-2018 09:39 PM)OldOwl Wrote: I hope Dr K uses a search firm like he has done in the past to get the best candidate for head coach. This seems to work best in the past instead if jumping on the first candidate eXpressing interest.
My fear is that there will be no genuine search. In this one case I'd prefer a committee, but one that includes Rice alums invested in the program, starting with Jose Cruz, Jr. Unlike football and basketball, JK simply has not been a strong advocate of Rice baseball, and rarely shows up at Reckling (and only travels with the team for post-season games). Rick Mello, on the other hand, is a fixture at Reckling.
Committee?.....we don’t need no stinkin’ Committee!
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04-26-2018 10:45 PM |
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cr11owl
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 10:28 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: (04-26-2018 09:39 PM)OldOwl Wrote: I hope Dr K uses a search firm like he has done in the past to get the best candidate for head coach. This seems to work best in the past instead if jumping on the first candidate eXpressing interest.
My fear is that there will be no genuine search. In this one case I'd prefer a committee, but one that includes Rice alums invested in the program, starting with Jose Cruz, Jr. Unlike football and basketball, JK simply has not been a strong advocate of Rice baseball, and rarely shows up at Reckling (and only travels with the team for post-season games). Rick Mello, on the other hand, is a fixture at Reckling.
Why are you afraid of that? Wasn’t someone posting on here we were interviewing TCU assistants (assume Saarloos) when they were here? I’d be happy with taking input from former Rice players who are still around baseball but ultimately I trust JK with his hires.
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04-26-2018 11:17 PM |
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Antarius
Say no to cronyism
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 11:17 PM)cr11owl Wrote: (04-26-2018 10:28 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: (04-26-2018 09:39 PM)OldOwl Wrote: I hope Dr K uses a search firm like he has done in the past to get the best candidate for head coach. This seems to work best in the past instead if jumping on the first candidate eXpressing interest.
My fear is that there will be no genuine search. In this one case I'd prefer a committee, but one that includes Rice alums invested in the program, starting with Jose Cruz, Jr. Unlike football and basketball, JK simply has not been a strong advocate of Rice baseball, and rarely shows up at Reckling (and only travels with the team for post-season games). Rick Mello, on the other hand, is a fixture at Reckling.
Why are you afraid of that? Wasn’t someone posting on here we were interviewing TCU assistants (assume Saarloos) when they were here? I’d be happy with taking input from former Rice players who are still around baseball but ultimately I trust JK with his hires.
After the Greenspan fiasco, I am very skeptical of committees at Rice.
We need to either trust JK or fire him.
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04-27-2018 08:40 AM |
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Frizzy Owl
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RE: Next baseball coach
Please, no hiring committee. The athletic director can and should consult anyone he needs to for good advice, even paid advice, but he should make the hiring decision.
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04-27-2018 08:43 AM |
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Hambone10
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-27-2018 08:40 AM)Antarius Wrote: After the Greenspan fiasco, I am very skeptical of committees at Rice.
We need to either trust JK or fire him.
Agree with this and Frizzy. Committees are good for providing input, but JK should use whatever resources and sources he wants/needs and then make the call. A lot of what I've said may sound to some like I'm upset with JK... and that's a fair criticism of me as I have tried to not be specific in my assignment of blame, but not always been careful... the reality is that I don't know what he has and has not been able to do.
It is the job of the AD to make ALL of these sorts of calls. That doesn't mean he's been in a position to do so. It hasn't been our consistent history. To me it's on the AD because that's his job... but we've ALL been in situations where we haven't (for a variety of reasons) been able to do our job the way we'd like.
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04-27-2018 11:15 AM |
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Ghost of 13thOwl
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-27-2018 08:40 AM)Antarius Wrote: (04-26-2018 11:17 PM)cr11owl Wrote: (04-26-2018 10:28 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote: (04-26-2018 09:39 PM)OldOwl Wrote: I hope Dr K uses a search firm like he has done in the past to get the best candidate for head coach. This seems to work best in the past instead if jumping on the first candidate eXpressing interest.
My fear is that there will be no genuine search. In this one case I'd prefer a committee, but one that includes Rice alums invested in the program, starting with Jose Cruz, Jr. Unlike football and basketball, JK simply has not been a strong advocate of Rice baseball, and rarely shows up at Reckling (and only travels with the team for post-season games). Rick Mello, on the other hand, is a fixture at Reckling.
Why are you afraid of that? Wasn’t someone posting on here we were interviewing TCU assistants (assume Saarloos) when they were here? I’d be happy with taking input from former Rice players who are still around baseball but ultimately I trust JK with his hires.
After the Greenspan fiasco, I am very skeptical of committees at Rice.
We need to either trust JK or fire him.
Fire Him.
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04-27-2018 01:54 PM |
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gmath
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RE: Next baseball coach
(04-26-2018 03:54 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: Glynn Hill
@RiceChron
21h21 hours ago
More
Graham asked for clarification from the department on Feb 20..the meeting where he was informed this was his final season occurred "around" April 14. Graham says the department didn't present him with any alternatives except 1 that involved him staying in a non-coaching capacity.
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
Professor of Calligraphy?
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04-27-2018 09:40 PM |
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