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22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #61
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-25-2018 10:48 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:25 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  I want to be the top team too. Both those teams have three really good seniors. Their best players. Maybe that’s the difference. I don’t know. I do that think that's a big deal at the mid conference level though. both those teams have awesome grad transfers. Ours blew his knee out.
I get your point, but the whole mindset around our program really concerns me. So let's say next year is the year. WKU and MTSU take a step back and we have solid seniors in Caver, BJ, and, Porter and step up and win the conference and make the tournament. We are 6 years in at that point, and all the patient people around this program reset the clock and defend JJ with 20+ win seasons and that 2019 trip to the tournament as we fail to make the tournament for the next 5 seasons. We are 11 seasons in with 1 NCAA tournament appearance at that point. That is the way I realistically see this playing out. I am very concerned that we are well on our way to an entire lost decade because JJ continues to do just enough to hang on.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Jones should not be judged based on the failures of the previous staff. Lets face it, he took over nothing and immediately got us to a competitive level. The recruiting is steadly improving and we probably have the best class coming in that we've had in years (even better if you consider the addition of Kithcart).

I'm not saying things are perfect, but there would be some risk going from at the very least very competitive (Probably NIT level team) to a new coach and possibly losing young players/recruits.

I always though this year was an important year and we are are a strong team that plays a more exciting brand. If Jones gets canned, sobeit, but it would make me very nervous. (thats even ignoring what the proposed salary for new coach would be).
02-26-2018 12:32 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #62
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-25-2018 11:18 PM)TheDancinMonarch Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:41 PM)Spantheman34 Wrote:  [quote='Prideofalion' pid='15109371' dateline='1519615500']
I want to be the top team too. Both those teams have three really good seniors. Their best players. Maybe that’s the difference. I don’t know. I do that think that's a big deal at the mid conference level though. both those teams have awesome grad transfers. Ours blew his knee out.

Oh c'mon. Awesome grad transfer! What, 3 pts and 2 rbs a game! Seriously.

Im assuming you are referring to McClinton? YOu realize Nick King averaged 3 points and 3 rebounds at Alabama and is now averaging 22/8. Jacorey Williams averaged 5 points and 3 rebounds at Arkansas and went for 17/7 last year.

*Havent read whole thread; maybe missed something.
02-26-2018 12:34 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #63
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:48 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:25 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  I want to be the top team too. Both those teams have three really good seniors. Their best players. Maybe that’s the difference. I don’t know. I do that think that's a big deal at the mid conference level though. both those teams have awesome grad transfers. Ours blew his knee out.
I get your point, but the whole mindset around our program really concerns me. So let's say next year is the year. WKU and MTSU take a step back and we have solid seniors in Caver, BJ, and, Porter and step up and win the conference and make the tournament. We are 6 years in at that point, and all the patient people around this program reset the clock and defend JJ with 20+ win seasons and that 2019 trip to the tournament as we fail to make the tournament for the next 5 seasons. We are 11 seasons in with 1 NCAA tournament appearance at that point. That is the way I realistically see this playing out. I am very concerned that we are well on our way to an entire lost decade because JJ continues to do just enough to hang on.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Jones should not be judged based on the failures of the previous staff. Lets face it, he took over nothing and immediately got us to a competitive level. The recruiting is steadly improving and we probably have the best class coming in that we've had in years (even better if you consider the addition of Kithcart).

I'm not saying things are perfect, but there would be some risk going from at the very least very competitive (Probably NIT level team) to a new coach and possibly losing young players/recruits.

I always though this year was an important year and we are are a strong team that plays a more exciting brand. If Jones gets canned, sobeit, but it would make me very nervous. (thats even ignoring what the proposed salary for new coach would be).
Damn. How long are going to keep blaming the previous staff? It's been 5 YEARS. Keatts had a far worse UNCW program playing close to a top 25 in 2 years. It's time to stop blaming the previous coaches. Sheesh. JJ has to get it done. Will you agree with that at some point?

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02-26-2018 01:49 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #64
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 01:49 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:48 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:25 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  I want to be the top team too. Both those teams have three really good seniors. Their best players. Maybe that’s the difference. I don’t know. I do that think that's a big deal at the mid conference level though. both those teams have awesome grad transfers. Ours blew his knee out.
I get your point, but the whole mindset around our program really concerns me. So let's say next year is the year. WKU and MTSU take a step back and we have solid seniors in Caver, BJ, and, Porter and step up and win the conference and make the tournament. We are 6 years in at that point, and all the patient people around this program reset the clock and defend JJ with 20+ win seasons and that 2019 trip to the tournament as we fail to make the tournament for the next 5 seasons. We are 11 seasons in with 1 NCAA tournament appearance at that point. That is the way I realistically see this playing out. I am very concerned that we are well on our way to an entire lost decade because JJ continues to do just enough to hang on.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Jones should not be judged based on the failures of the previous staff. Lets face it, he took over nothing and immediately got us to a competitive level. The recruiting is steadly improving and we probably have the best class coming in that we've had in years (even better if you consider the addition of Kithcart).

I'm not saying things are perfect, but there would be some risk going from at the very least very competitive (Probably NIT level team) to a new coach and possibly losing young players/recruits.

I always though this year was an important year and we are are a strong team that plays a more exciting brand. If Jones gets canned, sobeit, but it would make me very nervous. (thats even ignoring what the proposed salary for new coach would be).
Damn. How long are going to keep blaming the previous staff? It's been 5 YEARS. Keatts had a far worse UNCW program playing close to a top 25 in 2 years. It's time to stop blaming the previous coaches. Sheesh. JJ has to get it done. Will you agree with that at some point?

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UNCW did not have it worse, FWIW. And what Jones is doing now is not related to Blaine, but Jones certainly rose us from trash (5 wins) to respected (18 wins) to competitive (27 wins) in a short amount of time. You stated it has been 11 years (or whatever it was) that we haven't been in the tourney...Jones wasn't responsible for 11 years.
02-26-2018 01:53 PM
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odu09 Online
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Post: #65
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 11:53 AM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 11:02 AM)odu09 Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 10:47 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 03:34 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 03:20 PM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  After our loss... we are down to 26% chance of making the NCAA tournament. We are over a 90% of acheiving a 3 seed. Looking at the numbers had we beat WKU and then got to the finals of the CUSA tournament we likely would have been 50-50for an at large bid.

50-50 for an at large?????? Not a freaking chance.

Mid majors have to have extremely impressive resumes and quality wins to get at large bids. We have neither.

Zero.zero for an at large whether we won or lost that game. Not even in the discussion.
You need to read the post. You jump to way to many conclusions without reading or comprehending the post. It said if we had beaten WKU, won out and lost in the finals of CUSA Tournament we would have had a 50/50 chance of at large.

My humble opinion: even in that scenario, we don't get an at large. Our SoS is actually garbage. WKU would be our only good win, because as a 2 or 3 seed we'd be facing MT in the final. So we would have one Top 100 win and no Top 50 wins. That is definitely not good enough for an at large.

Yep, but we already knew that in June when the schedule came out. No news here.

Agreed 100%
02-26-2018 01:56 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #66
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 01:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 01:49 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:48 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:25 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  I want to be the top team too. Both those teams have three really good seniors. Their best players. Maybe that’s the difference. I don’t know. I do that think that's a big deal at the mid conference level though. both those teams have awesome grad transfers. Ours blew his knee out.
I get your point, but the whole mindset around our program really concerns me. So let's say next year is the year. WKU and MTSU take a step back and we have solid seniors in Caver, BJ, and, Porter and step up and win the conference and make the tournament. We are 6 years in at that point, and all the patient people around this program reset the clock and defend JJ with 20+ win seasons and that 2019 trip to the tournament as we fail to make the tournament for the next 5 seasons. We are 11 seasons in with 1 NCAA tournament appearance at that point. That is the way I realistically see this playing out. I am very concerned that we are well on our way to an entire lost decade because JJ continues to do just enough to hang on.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Jones should not be judged based on the failures of the previous staff. Lets face it, he took over nothing and immediately got us to a competitive level. The recruiting is steadly improving and we probably have the best class coming in that we've had in years (even better if you consider the addition of Kithcart).

I'm not saying things are perfect, but there would be some risk going from at the very least very competitive (Probably NIT level team) to a new coach and possibly losing young players/recruits.

I always though this year was an important year and we are are a strong team that plays a more exciting brand. If Jones gets canned, sobeit, but it would make me very nervous. (thats even ignoring what the proposed salary for new coach would be).
Damn. How long are going to keep blaming the previous staff? It's been 5 YEARS. Keatts had a far worse UNCW program playing close to a top 25 in 2 years. It's time to stop blaming the previous coaches. Sheesh. JJ has to get it done. Will you agree with that at some point?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

UNCW did not have it worse, FWIW. And what Jones is doing now is not related to Blaine, but Jones certainly rose us from trash (5 wins) to respected (18 wins) to competitive (27 wins) in a short amount of time. You stated it has been 11 years (or whatever it was) that we haven't been in the tourney...Jones wasn't responsible for 11 years.
UNCW was dreadful for several years before Keatts took over. That program was on it's death bed. ODU had one bad season.

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02-26-2018 01:58 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #67
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 01:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 01:49 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:48 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:25 PM)Prideofalion Wrote:  I want to be the top team too. Both those teams have three really good seniors. Their best players. Maybe that’s the difference. I don’t know. I do that think that's a big deal at the mid conference level though. both those teams have awesome grad transfers. Ours blew his knee out.
I get your point, but the whole mindset around our program really concerns me. So let's say next year is the year. WKU and MTSU take a step back and we have solid seniors in Caver, BJ, and, Porter and step up and win the conference and make the tournament. We are 6 years in at that point, and all the patient people around this program reset the clock and defend JJ with 20+ win seasons and that 2019 trip to the tournament as we fail to make the tournament for the next 5 seasons. We are 11 seasons in with 1 NCAA tournament appearance at that point. That is the way I realistically see this playing out. I am very concerned that we are well on our way to an entire lost decade because JJ continues to do just enough to hang on.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Jones should not be judged based on the failures of the previous staff. Lets face it, he took over nothing and immediately got us to a competitive level. The recruiting is steadly improving and we probably have the best class coming in that we've had in years (even better if you consider the addition of Kithcart).

I'm not saying things are perfect, but there would be some risk going from at the very least very competitive (Probably NIT level team) to a new coach and possibly losing young players/recruits.

I always though this year was an important year and we are are a strong team that plays a more exciting brand. If Jones gets canned, sobeit, but it would make me very nervous. (thats even ignoring what the proposed salary for new coach would be).
Damn. How long are going to keep blaming the previous staff? It's been 5 YEARS. Keatts had a far worse UNCW program playing close to a top 25 in 2 years. It's time to stop blaming the previous coaches. Sheesh. JJ has to get it done. Will you agree with that at some point?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

UNCW did not have it worse, FWIW. And what Jones is doing now is not related to Blaine, but Jones certainly rose us from trash (5 wins) to respected (18 wins) to competitive (27 wins) in a short amount of time. You stated it has been 11 years (or whatever it was) that we haven't been in the tourney...Jones wasn't responsible for 11 years.
You misread my post about 11 years.

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02-26-2018 01:58 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #68
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 01:58 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 01:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 01:49 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-25-2018 10:48 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I get your point, but the whole mindset around our program really concerns me. So let's say next year is the year. WKU and MTSU take a step back and we have solid seniors in Caver, BJ, and, Porter and step up and win the conference and make the tournament. We are 6 years in at that point, and all the patient people around this program reset the clock and defend JJ with 20+ win seasons and that 2019 trip to the tournament as we fail to make the tournament for the next 5 seasons. We are 11 seasons in with 1 NCAA tournament appearance at that point. That is the way I realistically see this playing out. I am very concerned that we are well on our way to an entire lost decade because JJ continues to do just enough to hang on.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

Jones should not be judged based on the failures of the previous staff. Lets face it, he took over nothing and immediately got us to a competitive level. The recruiting is steadly improving and we probably have the best class coming in that we've had in years (even better if you consider the addition of Kithcart).

I'm not saying things are perfect, but there would be some risk going from at the very least very competitive (Probably NIT level team) to a new coach and possibly losing young players/recruits.

I always though this year was an important year and we are are a strong team that plays a more exciting brand. If Jones gets canned, sobeit, but it would make me very nervous. (thats even ignoring what the proposed salary for new coach would be).
Damn. How long are going to keep blaming the previous staff? It's been 5 YEARS. Keatts had a far worse UNCW program playing close to a top 25 in 2 years. It's time to stop blaming the previous coaches. Sheesh. JJ has to get it done. Will you agree with that at some point?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

UNCW did not have it worse, FWIW. And what Jones is doing now is not related to Blaine, but Jones certainly rose us from trash (5 wins) to respected (18 wins) to competitive (27 wins) in a short amount of time. You stated it has been 11 years (or whatever it was) that we haven't been in the tourney...Jones wasn't responsible for 11 years.
You misread my post about 11 years.

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"I am very concerned that we are well on our way to an entire lost decade because JJ continues to do just enough to hang on. "

Jones hasn't finished his 5th year and you are talking about a lost decade (because of JJ). How are we supposed to interpret this?
02-26-2018 02:03 PM
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Petey Hodge Offline
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Post: #69
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
I blame our lost Century on Jones....
02-26-2018 02:20 PM
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ODU2011 Offline
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RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
Can someone with more knowledge tell me how bad the team was that jones inherited?
02-26-2018 02:24 PM
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monarx Online
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RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
If we had beaten WM, VCU and split with WKU I still believe we would be on the bubble for an at large. Obviously that didnt happen, but this schedule did have a pathway to an at large. We just couldn't have too many stumbles. If we only had losses to Temple, WKU (once) and MTSU we'd be pretty close to in.
02-26-2018 02:24 PM
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RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 02:24 PM)monarx Wrote:  If we had beaten WM, VCU and split with WKU I still believe we would be on the bubble for an at large. Obviously that didnt happen, but this schedule did have a pathway to an at large. We just couldn't have too many stumbles. If we only had losses to Temple, WKU (once) and MTSU we'd be pretty close to in.

That would put us finishing at 27-3. If that record is good enough only to "be on the bubble for an at large", that alone speaks volumes about the quality of our schedule.

We need to add a lot of beef to the schedule next year. If we have to play 3 road P5 teams, so be it.
02-26-2018 02:28 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 02:24 PM)ODU2011 Wrote:  Can someone with more knowledge tell me how bad the team was that jones inherited?

Came off 5 wins. Starters were:

Bacote- Soph
Batten- Jr
Palmore- Soph
Ross- Jr
Taylor-Fr

Bench:
Baker- Fr
Mosely- Fr
Ebondo-Jr

(we were supposed to also have Donte Hill)
02-26-2018 02:32 PM
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Post: #74
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 02:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 02:24 PM)ODU2011 Wrote:  Can someone with more knowledge tell me how bad the team was that jones inherited?

Came off 5 wins. Starters were:

Bacote- Soph
Batten- Jr
Palmore- Soph
Ross- Jr
Taylor-Fr

Bench:
Baker- Fr
Mosely- Fr
Ebondo-Jr

(we were supposed to also have Donte Hill)

Thanks I remember the 5 win season, just didn’t know how the roster looked. If I remember correctly, that was the year after bazemore graduated and Drexel got snubbed for an at large.
02-26-2018 02:36 PM
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monarx Online
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RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 02:24 PM)ODU2011 Wrote:  Can someone with more knowledge tell me how bad the team was that jones inherited?

Blaine's final roster had Nick Wright, Aaron Bacon, Keenan Palmore, Dimitri Batten, Abrose Mosely, DeShawn Painter, Ekene Anachebe, Deion Clark, Stuart McEwen, Richard Ross, Donte Hill, Anton Larson

Only five of those guys would get ANY playing time on this years team. Those would be Dimitri Batten, Ambrose Mosely, DeShawn Painter, Richard Ross and Donte Hill. Those five were all good players, but I don't think I'd trade any of our starters for any of those guys. Maybe, Painter, maybe. If you could trade Alfis, Pickney, Kah, Carver for them, we'd probably win CUSA.

The biggest problem wasn't a lack of talent (although there was a huge drop off once you got to the bench), it was a coach dealing with other issues than coaching a basketball team.

JJ got all of them except Painter and Nick Wright. Anachabe and McEwan transferred too, but that didnt matter.
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2018 02:40 PM by monarx.)
02-26-2018 02:38 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 02:38 PM)monarx Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 02:24 PM)ODU2011 Wrote:  Can someone with more knowledge tell me how bad the team was that jones inherited?

That roster had Nick Wright, Aaron Bacon, Keenan Palmore, Dimitri Batten, Abrose Mosely, DeShawn Painter, Ekene Anachebe, Deion Clark, Stuart McEwen, Richard Ross, Donte Hill, Anton Larson

Only five of those guys would get ANY playing time on this years team. Those would be Dimitri Batten, Ambrose Mosely, DeShawn Painter, Richard Ross and Donte Hill. Those five were all good players, but I don't think I'd trade any of our starters for any of those guys. Maybe, Painter, maybe. If you could trade Alfis, Pickney, Kah, Carver for them, we'd probably win CUSA.

The biggest problem wasn't a lack of talent (although there was a huge drop off once you got to the bench), it was a coach dealing with other issues than coaching a basketball team.

Wright, Painter, Anachebe, Clark, McEwen, and Hill were gone after that year.

Bacote was significantly better than Batten and would probably "play on this years team." Palmore may have stolen a handful of backup minutes. Ross would have stolen Carvers mins. Im not sure how much time Batten/Mosely would have gotten. Maybe Mosely would play a similar role that Goodwin has now.
02-26-2018 02:41 PM
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Post: #77
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
Bacote would steal Green's minutes and Ross would steal Carver's minutes. Palmore would get 3-4 mpg. Mosely would get Godwin's minutes. None of them would start, and only two of the starters on that team would play more than 10 minutes per game.
02-26-2018 04:25 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #78
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 04:25 PM)T-Mac Wrote:  Bacote would steal Green's minutes and Ross would steal Carver's minutes. Palmore would get 3-4 mpg. Mosely would get Godwin's minutes. None of them would start, and only two of the starters on that team would play more than 10 minutes per game.

Remember this is freshman version of Mosely so they are probably fairly similar.
02-26-2018 04:30 PM
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Post: #79
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 02:03 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 01:58 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 01:53 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 01:49 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  
(02-26-2018 12:32 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Jones should not be judged based on the failures of the previous staff. Lets face it, he took over nothing and immediately got us to a competitive level. The recruiting is steadly improving and we probably have the best class coming in that we've had in years (even better if you consider the addition of Kithcart).

I'm not saying things are perfect, but there would be some risk going from at the very least very competitive (Probably NIT level team) to a new coach and possibly losing young players/recruits.

I always though this year was an important year and we are are a strong team that plays a more exciting brand. If Jones gets canned, sobeit, but it would make me very nervous. (thats even ignoring what the proposed salary for new coach would be).
Damn. How long are going to keep blaming the previous staff? It's been 5 YEARS. Keatts had a far worse UNCW program playing close to a top 25 in 2 years. It's time to stop blaming the previous coaches. Sheesh. JJ has to get it done. Will you agree with that at some point?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

UNCW did not have it worse, FWIW. And what Jones is doing now is not related to Blaine, but Jones certainly rose us from trash (5 wins) to respected (18 wins) to competitive (27 wins) in a short amount of time. You stated it has been 11 years (or whatever it was) that we haven't been in the tourney...Jones wasn't responsible for 11 years.
You misread my post about 11 years.

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"I am very concerned that we are well on our way to an entire lost decade because JJ continues to do just enough to hang on. "

Jones hasn't finished his 5th year and you are talking about a lost decade (because of JJ). How are we supposed to interpret this?

Did you read the entire post? It did not say anywhere that we have gone 11 years without a tournament bid. The post was forward looking, and I absolutely believe what I said, based on what I have seen to this point.
02-26-2018 04:32 PM
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Post: #80
RE: 22-6.........or why numbers are deceiving
(02-26-2018 02:24 PM)ODU2011 Wrote:  Can someone with more knowledge tell me how bad the team was that jones inherited?

5-25. Talent level was that of about a .500 team, but that was exacerbated by BT's meltdown.
02-26-2018 04:34 PM
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