http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...ek-earlier

Jim, it was dumb. The Big East proved that they still own the Gahhden. Looks as if the Big Ten won't be playing in NYC metro area unless it gets into Brooklyn or Jersey (actually wouldn't be a bad idea if Rutgers had basketball fans). Let us all rejoice in the moment when the Big Ten hit their east coast ceiling.

Karma bites those who ditch their roots

Yeah he should have learned from the ACC's failure to knock the BE out of MSG for tournament week. I can't see the BIG being content with holding its tournament in Brooklyn or Newark. If/when the BIG tournament comes East again I gotta think it will be in D.C. or Philly.

(02-23-2018 09:12 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Yeah he should have learned from the ACC's failure to knock the BE out of MSG for tournament week. I can't see the BIG being content with holding its tournament in Brooklyn or Newark. If/when the BIG tournament comes East again I gotta think it will be in D.C. or Philly.

I wouldnt say that. The ACC was not willing to abandon its roots in the south to play all of their tournaments at MSG. MSG would not do a deal with the ACC unless it was long term on an annual basis. MSG is not being run by idiots. Why would they do a deal with the ACC for 2 years out of a 8 or 10 year period when they have the BE for all ten? Now, it is the BIG who truly failed.

Big 10 hoops tourney should be in Chicago every year, football in Indy since they have a dome. Now if the big 10 wants to start fixing past mistakes they could

1) copy the sec hoop schedule format so rival games are always played twice
2) keep the western football rival end of year game as is
3) move Michigan state to the west and Purdue to the east for football

Good. Madison Square Garden is ours.

(02-23-2018 09:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 09:12 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Yeah he should have learned from the ACC's failure to knock the BE out of MSG for tournament week. I can't see the BIG being content with holding its tournament in Brooklyn or Newark. If/when the BIG tournament comes East again I gotta think it will be in D.C. or Philly.

I wouldnt say that. The ACC was not willing to abandon its roots in the south to play all of their tournaments at MSG. MSG would not do a deal with the ACC unless it was long term on an annual basis. MSG is not being run by idiots. Why would they do a deal with the ACC for 2 years out of a 8 or 10 year period when they have the BE for all ten? Now, it is the BIG who truly failed.

You're acting like there was a standing offer to the ACC, where they could have had MSG had they been willing to commit long term. There was never any such offer as I'm sure you're aware. March basketball at MSG is synonymous with the Big East Tournament. It continues to sell out today, just as it did when Syracuse was there. The vast majority of ACC schools have their roots in the south, and honor that tradition by playing the majority of their tournaments in those friendly confines. While the ACC and others may occasionally come to NYC in March, The City remains Big East Territory.

(02-23-2018 10:39 PM)hoops22 Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 09:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 09:12 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Yeah he should have learned from the ACC's failure to knock the BE out of MSG for tournament week. I can't see the BIG being content with holding its tournament in Brooklyn or Newark. If/when the BIG tournament comes East again I gotta think it will be in D.C. or Philly.

I wouldnt say that. The ACC was not willing to abandon its roots in the south to play all of their tournaments at MSG. MSG would not do a deal with the ACC unless it was long term on an annual basis. MSG is not being run by idiots. Why would they do a deal with the ACC for 2 years out of a 8 or 10 year period when they have the BE for all ten? Now, it is the BIG who truly failed.

You're acting like there was a standing offer to the ACC, where they could have had MSG had they been willing to commit long term. There was never any such offer as I'm sure you're aware. March basketball at MSG is synonymous with the Big East Tournament. It continues to sell out today, just as it did when Syracuse was there. The vast majority of ACC schools have their roots in the south, and honor that tradition by playing the majority of their tournaments in those friendly confines. While the ACC and others may occasionally come to NYC in March, The City remains Big East Territory.

Right, and as it should be. The Big East survived by returning to their roots and shedding football. I'm happy for the conference and its fans. Hopefully the Johnnies and the Hoyas return to form.

I’m someone that has long supported the Big Ten expanding its presence in the East. The problem has never been that the Big Ten wanted to play its tournament in NYC. Instead, the problem was having this condensed schedule and moving the tournament date by a week in order to play at Madison Square Garden specifically. That was just never worth it. Barclays Center would be fine in the event that the Big Ten wants to go to the NYC area again.

(02-23-2018 09:39 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Big 10 hoops tourney should be in Chicago every year, football in Indy since they have a dome. Now if the big 10 wants to start fixing past mistakes they could

1) copy the sec hoop schedule format so rival games are always played twice
2) keep the western football rival end of year game as is
3) move Michigan state to the west and Purdue to the east for football

Although switching MSU and Purdue makes a lot of sense, it does lead to a tricky question of who should play each other the last week of the season. MSU-Mich would be locked in to play each other every season but Mich has to play OSU in its last game. That probably means MSU would have to rotate its end of year cross-division game between Rutgers, MD and PSU.

(02-23-2018 09:33 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 09:12 PM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  Yeah he should have learned from the ACC's failure to knock the BE out of MSG for tournament week. I can't see the BIG being content with holding its tournament in Brooklyn or Newark. If/when the BIG tournament comes East again I gotta think it will be in D.C. or Philly.

I wouldnt say that. The ACC was not willing to abandon its roots in the south to play all of their tournaments at MSG. MSG would not do a deal with the ACC unless it was long term on an annual basis. MSG is not being run by idiots. Why would they do a deal with the ACC for 2 years out of a 8 or 10 year period when they have the BE for all ten? Now, it is the BIG who truly failed.

MSG was NEVER going to do a deal with the ACC for that week even if it would have been a multi year deal. It is both the permanent home of the BE tournament and the conference home of St Johns. THAT is the point. When the ACC - with SEVEN former BE members - couldn't get that deal done, the BIG - with one former BE member - shouldn't have bothered to try.

(02-23-2018 11:41 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I’m someone that has long supported the Big Ten expanding its presence in the East. The problem has never been that the Big Ten wanted to play its tournament in NYC. Instead, the problem was having this condensed schedule and moving the tournament date by a week in order to play at Madison Square Garden specifically. That was just never worth it. Barclays Center would be fine in the event that the Big Ten wants to go to the NYC area again.

Once the Big Ten reeled in Penn State it was manifest destiny to expand eastward, especially in terms of presence. The problem, and you are correct, was the power move to overtake MSG. I'm sure there will be some great basketball played a week early, but the weird early conference schedule and that lapse before the NCAA's isn't worth it.

(02-23-2018 09:39 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Big 10 hoops tourney should be in Chicago every year, football in Indy since they have a dome. Now if the big 10 wants to start fixing past mistakes they could

1) copy the sec hoop schedule format so rival games are always played twice
2) keep the western football rival end of year game as is
3) move Michigan state to the west and Purdue to the east for football

The Big Ten is partially addressing #1 when it moves to a 20-game schedule by guaranteeing that all of the in-state rivalries (IU-PU, Michigan-MSU and Illinois-Northwestern) are played twice per year and schools will play others closer to them in proximity more frequently.

Proposal #3 won’t ever happen. If MSU moves to the West, then MSU-Michigan has to become a protected annual cross-division rivalry game. That would mean that the West schools would play Michigan even less than they currently do... and that’s going to be a non-starter. It’s no big deal for the West schools to play Indiana less frequently in the current setup, but no one is going to willingly give up more Michigan games.

Can't blame Delany for pushing the envelope by putting it in New York, but moving the tourney up a week should have been recognized as a bad idea from the start. It was bad for their regular season and tournament.

(02-24-2018 12:17 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  Can't blame Delany for pushing the envelope by putting it in New York, but moving the tourney up a week should have been recognized as a bad idea from the start. It was bad for their regular season and tournament.

It was pure hubris. Delany wanted to be in MSG because he thought the Big Ten would overshadow the Big East in "its" building.

(02-23-2018 09:39 PM)bluesox Wrote:  Big 10 hoops tourney should be in Chicago every year, football in Indy since they have a dome. Now if the big 10 wants to start fixing past mistakes they could

1) copy the sec hoop schedule format so rival games are always played twice
2) keep the western football rival end of year game as is
3) move Michigan state to the west and Purdue to the east for football

Why would you even want to move MSU to the West? MSU's only rivalries are all in the East (Penn State and Michigan). Purdue is the only school with split rivalries in both divisions (Illinois and Indiana).

The "competitive balance" argument is very short-sighted. Long-term, MSU is roughly equal to Purdue.

There is a fundamental difference between the Big Ten and the ACC when it comes to NYC:
- NYC is further east than every B1G team (and FAR from the basketball power teams)
- There is one ACC team further east than NYC, and one of the best hoops teams in in-state.

If Rutgers were great at basketball it might be a different story.

This wasn't Big Ten vs. Big East. The goal wasn't to replace the Big East (not when it would only be in New York once or twice a decade). It was about an east coast presence which they have not given up on. What they admit was a mistake (much to my surprise) was the willingness to hold the Big Ten Tournament so early.

That said, I personally would prefer the tournament to stay in Indianapolis and Chicago. At least it sounds like it will 8 or so years out of 10.

Edit: Count me out as a far as divisions or basically divisions for basketball. I care as much about playing most teams in the west as the east and would rather as close to a pure rotation as possible. Would love to lock Michigan in for twice, but aside from that, best just to keep as we are switching to next year.

"Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war."

The lesson learned was NOT that having the tournament at the "Gahden" is a bad idea, it was that condensing the schedule to do so was.


The B1G will be back to the east coast, they'll just coordinate it better next time.

(02-23-2018 10:07 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Good. Madison Square Garden is ours.

Good!
Our tournament belongs in Greensboro.