Great read from Erick Erickson.

Quote:As his ambitions grew, Trump cannily cultivated relationships with evangelicals, and they convinced themselves that those relationships must be sincere since they began before he openly started campaigning for the presidency. Once he did start openly campaigning, the outreach only became more intensive. As Brody and Lamb report, Trump would seek out the preachers to sit next to at events. He would bring his mother’s Bible to meetings to show it off. Evangelicals fell for it. So deluded and distracted are they by the trappings of power, they do not even see what Brody and Lamb see. “He’s the P. T. Barnum of the 21st century,” an anonymous banker in the book says of Donald Trump. These evangelical leaders have yet to realize that they are the suckers.

The Apotheosis of Donald J. Trump

I would argue they knew exactly who he is and what he is. They shook hands with the devil because he agreed to promote several of their pet agenda items (anti abortion, conservative Supreme court justice). The supreme court justice in particular was/is important because with one more on board they can control the "political activism" they so despise in liberals and turn it to their favor. It's part of a more long range plan and Trump is only a piece of the puzzle.

Seems to me the larger question still to be answered is what if any price evangelicals will pay for this pragmatic association with a man so obviously morally bankrupt.

Paraphrase: What profitith a man to gain the world if he loses his soul? Religion that becomes to closely involved in politics is ultimately a losing hand.

(02-16-2018 11:05 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  I would argue they knew exactly who he is and what he is. They shook hands with the devil because he agreed to promote several of their pet agenda items (anti abortion, conservative Supreme court justice). The supreme court justice in particular was/is important because with one more on board they can control the "political activism" they so despise in liberals and turn it to their favor. It's part of a more long range plan and Trump is only a piece of the puzzle.

Seems to me the larger question still to be answered is what if any price evangelicals will pay for this pragmatic association with a man so obviously morally bankrupt.

Paraphrase: What profitith a man to gain the world if he loses his soul? Religion that becomes to closely involved in politics is ultimately a losing hand.

This is easy.

It's more a matter of people weighing choices with an understanding that no one gets everything they want. Those folks looked at the choices and decided to live with some things they didn't like because they determined that another choice was even less palatable....

As long as he continues the fraud and does right by Christians, fine. Take what you get and live with it. But for the life of me I don't know why they trip over themselves to get in front of cameras and praise his sincerity. He's not and they don't need to do circus acts on his behalf.

(02-16-2018 11:09 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 11:05 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  I would argue they knew exactly who he is and what he is. They shook hands with the devil because he agreed to promote several of their pet agenda items (anti abortion, conservative Supreme court justice). The supreme court justice in particular was/is important because with one more on board they can control the "political activism" they so despise in liberals and turn it to their favor. It's part of a more long range plan and Trump is only a piece of the puzzle.

Seems to me the larger question still to be answered is what if any price evangelicals will pay for this pragmatic association with a man so obviously morally bankrupt.

Paraphrase: What profitith a man to gain the world if he loses his soul? Religion that becomes to closely involved in politics is ultimately a losing hand.

This is easy.

It's more a matter of people weighing choices with an understanding that no one gets everything they want. Those folks looked at the choices and decided to live with some things they didn't like because they determined that another choice was even less palatable....

That is political pragmatism. Keep in mind I'm speaking more about religious leaders (Falwell Jr. Perkins, Robertson etc.). as opposed to rank and file. My point is religion should not be in that position to begin with. Choosing between the lesser of 2 evils is a secular position, it should never be a religious or spiritual one.
Once you open the door of turning a blind eye, you stand the possibility of losing all further credibility, especially amongst the younger, more idealistic population.

(02-16-2018 10:52 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Great read from Erick Erickson.

Quote:As his ambitions grew, Trump cannily cultivated relationships with evangelicals, and they convinced themselves that those relationships must be sincere since they began before he openly started campaigning for the presidency. Once he did start openly campaigning, the outreach only became more intensive. As Brody and Lamb report, Trump would seek out the preachers to sit next to at events. He would bring his mother’s Bible to meetings to show it off. Evangelicals fell for it. So deluded and distracted are they by the trappings of power, they do not even see what Brody and Lamb see. “He’s the P. T. Barnum of the 21st century,” an anonymous banker in the book says of Donald Trump. These evangelical leaders have yet to realize that they are the suckers.

The Apotheosis of Donald J. Trump

Democrats hate America

More poo flinging from the monkeys.

SMH

Yep, christians wised up. Made a deal and stuck with the only candidate that would beat the Clinton corruption machine. God hating democrats will have to find a new card to play. Get busy dems 2020 will be here before you know it.

(02-16-2018 11:20 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 11:09 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 11:05 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  I would argue they knew exactly who he is and what he is. They shook hands with the devil because he agreed to promote several of their pet agenda items (anti abortion, conservative Supreme court justice). The supreme court justice in particular was/is important because with one more on board they can control the "political activism" they so despise in liberals and turn it to their favor. It's part of a more long range plan and Trump is only a piece of the puzzle.

Seems to me the larger question still to be answered is what if any price evangelicals will pay for this pragmatic association with a man so obviously morally bankrupt.

Paraphrase: What profitith a man to gain the world if he loses his soul? Religion that becomes to closely involved in politics is ultimately a losing hand.

This is easy.

It's more a matter of people weighing choices with an understanding that no one gets everything they want. Those folks looked at the choices and decided to live with some things they didn't like because they determined that another choice was even less palatable....

That is political pragmatism. Keep in mind I'm speaking more about religious leaders (Falwell Jr. Perkins, Robertson etc.). as opposed to rank and file. My point is religion should not be in that position to begin with. Choosing between the lesser of 2 evils is a secular position, it should never be a religious or spiritual one.
Once you open the door of turning a blind eye, you stand the possibility of losing all further credibility, especially amongst the younger, more idealistic population.

Religious leaders make pragmatic choices of whom they back politically as well. We are talking about who you go into the voting booth and pull the lever for, we aren't talking about saving souls.

obama had his religious leaders. The difference was he had to hide the fact he knew them.

I’ll take the light over the dark. My God has used many ‘bad’ people through history to get good results. You don’t know Gods plan and neither do I.

(02-16-2018 01:18 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  obama had his religious leaders. The difference was he had to hide the fact he knew them.

I’ll take the light over the dark. My God has used many ‘bad’ people through history to get good results. You don’t know Gods plan and neither do I.

If you voted for Trump you didn't. Now I agree Hillary wasn't really a viable alternative, so we were all screwed this time out.

(02-16-2018 06:21 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 01:18 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  obama had his religious leaders. The difference was he had to hide the fact he knew them.

I’ll take the light over the dark. My God has used many ‘bad’ people through history to get good results. You don’t know Gods plan and neither do I.

If you voted for Trump you didn't. Now I agree Hillary wasn't really a viable alternative, so we were all screwed this time out.

You obviously do not know obamas background. Understandable since the MSM had a thrill going up their legs and did no vetting of the man.

(02-16-2018 06:46 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 06:21 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 01:18 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  obama had his religious leaders. The difference was he had to hide the fact he knew them.

I’ll take the light over the dark. My God has used many ‘bad’ people through history to get good results. You don’t know Gods plan and neither do I.

If you voted for Trump you didn't. Now I agree Hillary wasn't really a viable alternative, so we were all screwed this time out.

You obviously do not know obamas background. Understandable since the MSM had a thrill going up their legs and did no vetting of the man.

Did you just deflect? I thought we were talking about Trump and Hillary.
But since you brought it up, can you be a little more specific?

Most Evangelicals I know (and I wager that I know more than you) don't really like Trump.... But they think Trump is more likely to respect their religious and assembly rights than Hill-Dawg would have been....

But go ahead tommy, tell me how I feel about him..

(02-16-2018 08:02 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 06:46 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 06:21 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 01:18 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  obama had his religious leaders. The difference was he had to hide the fact he knew them.

I’ll take the light over the dark. My God has used many ‘bad’ people through history to get good results. You don’t know Gods plan and neither do I.

If you voted for Trump you didn't. Now I agree Hillary wasn't really a viable alternative, so we were all screwed this time out.

You obviously do not know obamas background. Understandable since the MSM had a thrill going up their legs and did no vetting of the man.

Did you just deflect? I thought we were talking about Trump and Hillary.
But since you brought it up, can you be a little more specific?

You’re right. I did. However hilldog and the rapist donkey she rides is far worse than obama. At least obama was a bit of semi commie wishing to transform America, a job he thankfully was woefully inept at. He had lofty goals that his narcissism got in the way of. Hilldog on the other hand is just in it for coin. As much as she could steal, bribe and conspire to get by giving up whatever she could get away with. And she has always gotten away with it.

(02-16-2018 01:18 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  You don’t know Gods plan and neither do I.

I certainly don't know what God's Plan was for the 2016 election, if he had one, but I find it incredibly difficult to believe that Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump were a positive part of it.

As someone who has disliked HRC dating back to the early 90s, I can easily understand voting for anyone rather than her. But there is no need to justify that decision with an attempt to prop up the virtue of Trump. He is who he is. If you support him and his policies, fine, it's your right. But let's not act like he is some saintly figure because he won't appoint ACLU attorneys to the Supreme Court.

(02-16-2018 11:05 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  I would argue they knew exactly who he is and what he is. They shook hands with the devil because he agreed to promote several of their pet agenda items (anti abortion, conservative Supreme court justice). The supreme court justice in particular was/is important because with one more on board they can control the "political activism" they so despise in liberals and turn it to their favor. It's part of a more long range plan and Trump is only a piece of the puzzle.

Seems to me the larger question still to be answered is what if any price evangelicals will pay for this pragmatic association with a man so obviously morally bankrupt.

Paraphrase: What profitith a man to gain the world if he loses his soul? Religion that becomes to closely involved in politics is ultimately a losing hand.

“Shook hands with the devil”.

And we’re supposed to start there with decent dialogue? El Oh El.

Mirror, Thine friend. Try one.

Evangelicals are the least of your boogeyman worries...

(02-16-2018 11:19 AM)Paul M Wrote:  As long as he continues the fraud and does right by Christians, fine. Take what you get and live with it. But for the life of me I don't know why they trip over themselves to get in front of cameras and praise his sincerity. He's not and they don't need to do circus acts on his behalf.

I don't think any evangelicals have any delusion that Trump is one of them (I'm Catholic and he sure as schit ain't one of us). That said, he has put a very conservative supreme court justice on the bench, doubled the child tax credit, and is pushing paid maternity leave. I didn't vote for him in the primary, but in the general, there was no alternative choice arguing for anything in support of strengthening the American family. Why do leaders like Falwell trip over themselves to get in front of cameras and praise his sincerity? Simple, perceived opportunity and money. They are the frauds, Trump is just exploiting them.

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(02-17-2018 10:11 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(02-16-2018 11:19 AM)Paul M Wrote:  As long as he continues the fraud and does right by Christians, fine. Take what you get and live with it. But for the life of me I don't know why they trip over themselves to get in front of cameras and praise his sincerity. He's not and they don't need to do circus acts on his behalf.

I don't think any evangelicals have any delusion that Trump is one of them (I'm Catholic and he sure as schit ain't one of us). That said, he has put a very conservative supreme court justice on the bench, doubled the child tax credit, and is pushing paid maternity leave. I didn't vote for him in the primary, but in the general, there was no alternative choice arguing for anything in support of strengthening the American family. Why do leaders like Falwell trip over themselves to get in front of cameras and praise his sincerity? Simple, perceived opportunity and money. They are the frauds, Trump is just exploiting them.

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Thank you